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On September 18 2011 00:01 DerNebel wrote:
Saying the community overreacted out of sexism to the Gizmodo article about Jon Finkel is just plain dumb. He is the Jordan of MtG, beloved player and overall nice guy, and he was being humiliated by some girl who could not see past that he was good at some card-game. The community would have reacted the same if Jon Finkel was gay and the Gizmodo writer had been a dude.
There was absolutely an overreaction by the gaming community over that article. Did you read the hundreds of angry posts all over reddit, gizmodo, the nerdsphere in general, and even here on TL? Tons of "Nice Guys" (tm) came out to blatantly project their own insecurities all over the situation, even when the "victim" didn't seem bothered at all.
Calling her a shallow bitch, insinuating that her next boyfriend would be abusive, the general assumption that a woman should settle down with the first stable guy who will have her, etc. Despite there being *mutual* non-attraction to each other, and them having literally nothing in common, hundreds of nerds came out of the woodwork to lambast her for "rejecting him for shallow reasons" which obviously makes her a bitch. God forbid she turns down a guy she's not attracted to.
Naming the guy in the article was the wrong thing to do obviously, but the responses to that old article absolutely show some of the issues with sexism in the gaming culture.
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She can write whatever she wants, but I am sure as hell hoping for Day[9] to sue her, and her editor. That speaking as human being, not a gamer.
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On September 18 2011 00:12 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 00:01 DerNebel wrote:
Saying the community overreacted out of sexism to the Gizmodo article about Jon Finkel is just plain dumb. He is the Jordan of MtG, beloved player and overall nice guy, and he was being humiliated by some girl who could not see past that he was good at some card-game. The community would have reacted the same if Jon Finkel was gay and the Gizmodo writer had been a dude.
The Day[9] quote is taken out of context, because he was actually mostly ridiculing his young self for being pissed off about this sort of thing. He might have said 'bitch' that time, but he has done that several times as obvious parody. One time he called his mother a bitch for crying out loud!
I'm not going to read the article in full, sue me. If the author gets paid per hit, which is likely, due to the sensationalist nature of the article, then I won't pay him off. Also, the two incidents quoted have obvious flaws insofar as they are used to argue for gamer sexism. A woman is allowed to find MtG off-putting in a man. She is also allowed to post about how off-putting she finds this on a blog, and while I agree the tone of her article was utterly obnoxious it is not a valid excuse for the hordes of "dumb bitch, how dare she dislike Jon Finkel" posts all on the internet. That's sexism in action and if you say anything like "well she deserved it" then you're just victim-blaming. What next, "well she deserved to be raped with that shirt and saying those mean things" ?
So she has the right to dislike someone because he plays a card game, but other people don't have the right to dislike her for treating him cruelly and humiliating him publicly? I think you have the wrong idea about rights. Freedom of speech does not mean that your position is exempt from ridicule.
And for the record, I also don't think you would talk this way if Finkel had been the woman and the blogger had been the man.
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United States44402 Posts
Exact quote (36 mins in)
It really pissed me off, this one girl I dated, I explained to her gg, that you say good game, and she would type it to me on AIM but she would do lower case g, period, lower case g, period. I'm like "that's not how you abbreviate it, it's gg, it's this thing" and she would like do it to poke fun at me. Urghh! So glad that ended. Clearly she does not respect the important things in life.
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Yeah sexism in our culture is out of control.
Look at an upstanding male getting plastered for COMMENTS HE DIDN'T EVEN MAKE towards a woman.
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... ugh...
I'm all for woman's rights and I toil alot for it in my positions of democracy and discussions
But starting a topic regarding sexism, and then mentioning Day9 in that context... that's just stupid.
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The funniest part is that bitches are female dogs, if you directly make the link to human females, that's kind of sexist 
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Sexism isn't as bad as objectification.
With that in mind, Day[9] seems like the least sexist guy possible--he was very cool when I met him in Ohio to me *shrug*
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On September 18 2011 00:18 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 00:12 Grumbels wrote:On September 18 2011 00:01 DerNebel wrote:
Saying the community overreacted out of sexism to the Gizmodo article about Jon Finkel is just plain dumb. He is the Jordan of MtG, beloved player and overall nice guy, and he was being humiliated by some girl who could not see past that he was good at some card-game. The community would have reacted the same if Jon Finkel was gay and the Gizmodo writer had been a dude.
The Day[9] quote is taken out of context, because he was actually mostly ridiculing his young self for being pissed off about this sort of thing. He might have said 'bitch' that time, but he has done that several times as obvious parody. One time he called his mother a bitch for crying out loud!
I'm not going to read the article in full, sue me. If the author gets paid per hit, which is likely, due to the sensationalist nature of the article, then I won't pay him off. Also, the two incidents quoted have obvious flaws insofar as they are used to argue for gamer sexism. A woman is allowed to find MtG off-putting in a man. She is also allowed to post about how off-putting she finds this on a blog, and while I agree the tone of her article was utterly obnoxious it is not a valid excuse for the hordes of "dumb bitch, how dare she dislike Jon Finkel" posts all on the internet. That's sexism in action and if you say anything like "well she deserved it" then you're just victim-blaming. What next, "well she deserved to be raped with that shirt and saying those mean things" ? So she has the right to dislike someone because he plays a card game, but other people don't have the right to dislike her for treating him cruelly and humiliating him publicly? I think you have the wrong idea about rights. Freedom of speech does not mean that your position is exempt from ridicule. And for the record, I also don't think you would talk this way if Finkel had been the woman and the blogger had been the man.
Meh, you don't know anything about me so cut out the "you're a hypocrite based on how I imagine you'll react" remarks.
And yes, people disliking her for having a 'shallow reason' of finding Finkel not a good match are definitely way off the deep end since it reveals an attitude that a woman does not have free choice in whom she dates. Obviously she shouldn't have named him, but that's not what all the sexists posts were about, those were concerned with the 'crime' of rejecting him.
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On September 18 2011 00:01 DerNebel wrote:
The Day[9] quote is taken out of context, because he was actually mostly ridiculing his young self for being pissed off about this sort of thing. He might have said 'bitch' that time, but he has done that several times as obvious parody. One time he called his mother a bitch for crying out loud!
I'm not going to read the article in full, sue me. If the author gets paid per hit, which is likely, due to the sensationalist nature of the article, then I won't pay him off. Also, the two incidents quoted have obvious flaws insofar as they are used to argue for gamer sexism.
As someone who knows Geordie and has written for Star City Games, I feel I have to defend him here. First of all, SCG writers are not paid per hit, in fact they are paid practically nothing. He's not writing this article for hits, he's writing it because it's what he genuinely believes.
He is not demonizing Day9 in this article. He did not accuse Day9 of sexism or anything like that. He used one quote (a misquote, apparently) to make his point about how we use sexist words in everyday conversation without thinking about it. Other people he quoted similarly in this article are Garry Kasparov, and himself, and those quotes are much more sexist. He is obviously not choosing Day9's quote for sensationalism because there are thousands of other examples of sexist quotes from gamers that he could have chosen, that one just stuck out in his mind from recent memory, and he probably misremembered it.
I'd just like to remind everyone that this is a very long article which has very little to do with Day9, and a lot to do with our gaming culture in general, and you can't invalidate the entire piece of work just based on one example of sloppy journalism. Guaranteed that if one person e-mailed the editor of SCG, that quote would get removed and Geordie would apologize for it, so stop making such a fuss.
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I doubt Sean would have legal recourse here, but he should at least get in touch with the author and editor and ask to have it taken down, or re edited.
How do yellow journalists sleep at night? Like I dont even see the point in this smear, its like the author was just lazy.
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On September 18 2011 00:12 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 00:01 DerNebel wrote:
Saying the community overreacted out of sexism to the Gizmodo article about Jon Finkel is just plain dumb. He is the Jordan of MtG, beloved player and overall nice guy, and he was being humiliated by some girl who could not see past that he was good at some card-game. The community would have reacted the same if Jon Finkel was gay and the Gizmodo writer had been a dude.
The Day[9] quote is taken out of context, because he was actually mostly ridiculing his young self for being pissed off about this sort of thing. He might have said 'bitch' that time, but he has done that several times as obvious parody. One time he called his mother a bitch for crying out loud!
I'm not going to read the article in full, sue me. If the author gets paid per hit, which is likely, due to the sensationalist nature of the article, then I won't pay him off. Also, the two incidents quoted have obvious flaws insofar as they are used to argue for gamer sexism. A woman is allowed to find MtG off-putting in a man. She is also allowed to post about how off-putting she finds this on a blog, and while I agree the tone of her article was utterly obnoxious it is not a valid excuse for the hordes of "dumb bitch, how dare she dislike Jon Finkel" posts all on the internet. That's sexism in action and if you say anything like "well she deserved it" then you're just victim-blaming. What next, "well she deserved to be raped with that shirt and saying those mean things" ?
Thank you, it's going full retard in here. The article is pretty dumb but the reactions are on the same level.
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this whole dayj-thing had me facepalming ohh so hard.
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On September 18 2011 00:24 Djzapz wrote:The funniest part is that bitches are female dogs, if you directly make the link to human females, that's kind of sexist
That's the silliest reasoning ever, and I'm pretty sure you realize it, lol
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On September 18 2011 00:27 101.blubb wrote:
this whole dayj-thing had me facepalming ohh so hard.
Pretty much this. Sigh.
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On September 18 2011 00:12 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 00:01 DerNebel wrote:
Saying the community overreacted out of sexism to the Gizmodo article about Jon Finkel is just plain dumb. He is the Jordan of MtG, beloved player and overall nice guy, and he was being humiliated by some girl who could not see past that he was good at some card-game. The community would have reacted the same if Jon Finkel was gay and the Gizmodo writer had been a dude.
The Day[9] quote is taken out of context, because he was actually mostly ridiculing his young self for being pissed off about this sort of thing. He might have said 'bitch' that time, but he has done that several times as obvious parody. One time he called his mother a bitch for crying out loud!
I'm not going to read the article in full, sue me. If the author gets paid per hit, which is likely, due to the sensationalist nature of the article, then I won't pay him off. Also, the two incidents quoted have obvious flaws insofar as they are used to argue for gamer sexism. A woman is allowed to find MtG off-putting in a man. She is also allowed to post about how off-putting she finds this on a blog, and while I agree the tone of her article was utterly obnoxious it is not a valid excuse for the hordes of "dumb bitch, how dare she dislike Jon Finkel" posts all on the internet. That's sexism in action and if you say anything like "well she deserved it" then you're just victim-blaming. What next, "well she deserved to be raped with that shirt and saying those mean things" ?
Not only is it a valid excuse, it's a valid reason. You see, if someone acts like a shallow cunt, you validate everyone who calls her a shallow cunt. Is she ALLOWED to dislike someone for playing magic? Yeah, she is. Is she allowed to tell the world? Absolutely. Is it hideously shallow and a disgusting character trait? You know it is. Are people absolutely correct in calling it like they see it? Yes.
If someone behaves like a total tool, you're justified in telling them they're behaving like a total tool. And you are behaving like a total tool, especially with that final sentence. Talk about a ludicrous hyperbole.
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Really.... Day9? Really... The most up beat positive, least judgmental personality in gaming ever? This is who you're accusing of sexism??? *face palm*
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Damn, 2-3gamers threw some "sexist" remarks, so sexism is everywhere in gaming culture!
You know what else gamers generally are? Beast of muscles. Because you know, we have 2-3 beasts of muscles in the gaming community, we probably all are.
That being said : Seriously? Quoting someone, totally out of context, transforming what he said to strengthen your point, and then if people argue that you're wrong, you point out that it isn't the main point of the article?
It sounded like bad journalism to me before reading to thread, but now it sounds like f.ing bull sentionalist crap, again... -_-
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That's some quality journalism. I mean, how do you get that quote wrong? Where are you possibly taking it from? Your imagination? Totally undermines any other point the article was trying to make.
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Pathetic attempt at calling out a very note worthy figure in our community for nothing more than more traffic for their website.
DO NOT EVEN CLICK THOSE LINKS, DO NOT READ THE ARTICLE, DO NOT GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT.
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EPT
