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On September 18 2011 05:01 MozzarellaL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 00:01 lorkac wrote:
The gaming culture is centralized in already highly misogynistic societies, the US and Europe. How can't there be sexism in gaming? Add to that the hypermasculine sports aura wherein we enjoy feminizing weakness such as calling the opposing players "our bitch" as well as determining cowardice as being "pussies" we end up with a culture that glorifies the masculine and attacks what we conceive to be feminine ideals.
Esports is very very misogynistic. This is probably the most ignorant statement I have ever read on these forums. Perhaps we should go over to Africa, where women are raped as a part of everyday life, or over to East Asia, where baby girls are left to die on the side of the street, or over to Middle East where women aren't allowed to drive cars. Yea, a society that emasculates men by calling them 'bitches' and 'pussies' is clearly very very misogynistic. LOL? Are you even listening to yourself? A society that EMASCULATES MEN by calling them BITCHES is very very hateful towards women?
Actually, yeah, the point of calling a man a "bitch" is more or less that it is degrading to be referred to as a female.
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So first OP claims random shit Day9 didn't say, and then he implies we're all sexist. LOL well played OP. Nice fucking trolling.
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On September 18 2011 05:13 Rubber wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 05:01 MozzarellaL wrote:On September 18 2011 00:01 lorkac wrote:
The gaming culture is centralized in already highly misogynistic societies, the US and Europe. How can't there be sexism in gaming? Add to that the hypermasculine sports aura wherein we enjoy feminizing weakness such as calling the opposing players "our bitch" as well as determining cowardice as being "pussies" we end up with a culture that glorifies the masculine and attacks what we conceive to be feminine ideals.
Esports is very very misogynistic. This is probably the most ignorant statement I have ever read on these forums. Perhaps we should go over to Africa, where women are raped as a part of everyday life, or over to East Asia, where baby girls are left to die on the side of the street, or over to Middle East where women aren't allowed to drive cars. Yea, a society that emasculates men by calling them 'bitches' and 'pussies' is clearly very very misogynistic. LOL? Are you even listening to yourself? A society that EMASCULATES MEN by calling them BITCHES is very very hateful towards women? Actually, yeah, the point of calling a man a "bitch" is more or less that it is degrading to be referred to as a female.
Do you actually use the words by their original meanings?
I've met almost.. nobdy who doesn't use fucker/bastard/twat/bitch/pussy/cunt/cock completely interchangeably.
Infact, most of the time the words are used in an order that simply sounds funny, phonetically. This can be observed very well in any form of stand up comedy, or if you break down the speech between any 2 people.
The secondary prioritisation for 'bad' words is very often a correlation between the Intensity of a/the event, and the perceived level of offensiveness of the swearword.
For example, You scout my hidden tech "oh, man, you bitch, haha!"
You Kill both my hatcheries and roast 50 drones "Lol you cock"
You kill my dog "you stupid cunt"
Google for the research into language usage.
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On September 18 2011 05:08 Magic_Mike wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 05:03 MozzarellaL wrote:On September 18 2011 04:36 Potling wrote:However, "bastard" is an insult I have only ever used towards men. Are men offended by this In my experience, no. "bastard" isn't even a gendered insult. It's an insult that questions your parentage (born out of wedlock), generally suggesting you are the child of a whore. Generally speaking guys don't really get offended by name calling and such. Most guy friends who hang out spend the vast majority of their time figuring out new ways to humiliate, abuse, and hit their male friends in the nuts when they least expect it. When a guy gets hurt, we generally all point and laugh unless it is too serious and even then there is usually one guy who snickers. When a guy calls another guy a name or an insult, the other will try to one up him and if it is a success, there will be either more insults or in same cases an agreement that that one was a good one.
This is in the rotten mainstream culture though, not universal.Even in the rotten mainstream it's not as bad as you make it sound.
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lol@losers wasting their life arguing with other losers
User was temp banned for this post.
User was warned for this post
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Being a white male, I find it amusing that everything I say, in any context, every time I talk, is either racist, sexist, or some other form of prejudiced.
I'm sorry that there are people offended by every single word in the English language.
I'm sorry that I don't really give a damn.
If you're offended by the use of the word "bitch", then you probably shouldn't be a part of any adult community. Men, women, boys, girls, and even transgenders and no genders, who are white, black, latin, asian, and all points in between use the word "bitch" all the time.
The word isn't offensive because it's calling someone a woman -- women call women "bitch" all the time. The word is offensive because
a: Calling someone a dog is degrading, in the sense that they are being referred to as a sub-human animal (look up the word "bitch")
b: The word is associated with a type of behavior, not a behavior that is specific to either sex or any gender. A behavior which is frowned upon by normal people. (ie "you're being a bitch")
ps
Sean Plott: you can just lie, re-edit history man!
Jesse (me): I can't, there's way too many Day[9] fans. They're worse than Blizzard lore fans.
Don't misquote Day9. It's a bad idea.
On September 18 2011 05:24 Justjealouse wrote:
lol@losers wasting their life arguing with other losers
That was such a meta-self-referential post I'm not even sure how I could begin to point out the irony.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37122 Posts
Sigh..... classic example of "making a mountain out of a mole hill." Honestly, why must people target kind hearted people like Day9?
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Why was this topic not delited and Op banned for spreading defamation of our beloved Day9?
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On September 18 2011 05:13 Rubber wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 05:01 MozzarellaL wrote:On September 18 2011 00:01 lorkac wrote:
The gaming culture is centralized in already highly misogynistic societies, the US and Europe. How can't there be sexism in gaming? Add to that the hypermasculine sports aura wherein we enjoy feminizing weakness such as calling the opposing players "our bitch" as well as determining cowardice as being "pussies" we end up with a culture that glorifies the masculine and attacks what we conceive to be feminine ideals.
Esports is very very misogynistic. This is probably the most ignorant statement I have ever read on these forums. Perhaps we should go over to Africa, where women are raped as a part of everyday life, or over to East Asia, where baby girls are left to die on the side of the street, or over to Middle East where women aren't allowed to drive cars. Yea, a society that emasculates men by calling them 'bitches' and 'pussies' is clearly very very misogynistic. LOL? Are you even listening to yourself? A society that EMASCULATES MEN by calling them BITCHES is very very hateful towards women? Actually, yeah, the point of calling a man a "bitch" is more or less that it is degrading to be referred to as a female.
I was thinking about how to approach this and respond but I really just have to flat out be blunt and say you are as wrong as can be. Not a single person I know, nor myself use the word, "bitch" with the idea of emasculating the other person anymore than another word. For example, if we use the word, "f***" we are attempting to emasculate them just as much as if we used the word bitch in identical situations, even though the word, "f***" means just about the polar opposite of not being masculine. So no, we don't subscribe to being unchanging robots.
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Honestly, there are definitely some people out there in the gaming community that are very misogynistic in the gaming community. Of course, who hasn't heard a football player yell at some girl to go make them a 'sammich.' And while those people may play Call of Duty or Madden every now and then, I seriously doubt any of my high school's football team would be able to tell you what E-Sports is. Not that they're bad people, I'm just trying to demonstrate that misogyny in our culture is not exclusive to the worlds of StarCraft or Magic the Gathering. That being said, I've heard plenty of racial and homophobic slurs, and personally in comparison I don't think that most gaming misogynists are nearly as bad. Sure, sexism is a really big deal, but I don't think it's quite as bad as the amount of homophobic and racial slurs that I see and hear all the time whenever I'm playing StarCraft or some other online game.
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On September 18 2011 05:13 Rubber wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 05:01 MozzarellaL wrote:On September 18 2011 00:01 lorkac wrote:
The gaming culture is centralized in already highly misogynistic societies, the US and Europe. How can't there be sexism in gaming? Add to that the hypermasculine sports aura wherein we enjoy feminizing weakness such as calling the opposing players "our bitch" as well as determining cowardice as being "pussies" we end up with a culture that glorifies the masculine and attacks what we conceive to be feminine ideals.
Esports is very very misogynistic. This is probably the most ignorant statement I have ever read on these forums. Perhaps we should go over to Africa, where women are raped as a part of everyday life, or over to East Asia, where baby girls are left to die on the side of the street, or over to Middle East where women aren't allowed to drive cars. Yea, a society that emasculates men by calling them 'bitches' and 'pussies' is clearly very very misogynistic. LOL? Are you even listening to yourself? A society that EMASCULATES MEN by calling them BITCHES is very very hateful towards women? Actually, yeah, the point of calling a man a "bitch" is more or less that it is degrading to be referred to as a female.
It's just as degrading as calling a woman a man, though. It's not like if you call a woman "manly" they'll take it as a compliment. Men are just more macho sometimes. That's not really sexism at all.
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people should really stop looking at everything closely and desperately trying to find something that might be interpreted as what they want it to be, just to blow it out of proportion afterwards... <.<
or maybe the responsibility lies within us readers, what we think deserves attention and what does not.
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i read about halfway through the article before getting fed up and disappointing. sexism in games is stupid. the phrase "girls dont play video games" isnt a just a stereotype, its largely fact. its pretty well known that games like Magic and Starcraft and such are very male dominant(in a professional setting). thats not sexism, thats just a fucking fact. games like WoW and CoD are also very dominate esports. however, females play all of these games, casually, all around the world, every day.
the problem with claiming gaming is sexist is that you can bring that concept in inject it in anything and it can still be true. esports, real sports, construction, dance, traffic worker, cooking, house cleaning, shit shoveler. all of these things can be claimed are sexist if you spin it the right way.
in my opinion, until more females stop being so fucking ashamed of their hobbies, and more female gamers take the game seriously, train seriously, and put in the same effort that male players do, esports deserves to be male dominated. that is until more female players step up and compete like the male gamers do.
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Uhhh, Day9 is definitely not sexist. I remember something along the lines of him making a joke about an ex gf or something, and I think it has been taken a little out of context here. Day9 is the most inclusive gamer I can think of, as it his self-declared purpose to spread e-sports as far as he can, and to be sexist wouldn't help his cause in any way.
More on topic, I would say the sexism might be rooted in the fact that growing up nerds are kind of looked down on for gaming by girls (I know this is not true in all cases!!!) and there is a stigma about it. So maybe guys might see it as a type of revenge by having an exclusive male attitude towards gaming. But maybe I'm just spewing out of my ass...
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 18 2011 06:44 itkovian wrote:
Uhhh, Day9 is definitely not sexist. I remember something along the lines of him making a joke about an ex gf or something, and I think it has been taken a little out of context here. Day9 is the most inclusive gamer I can think of, as it his self-declared purpose to spread e-sports as far as he can, and to be sexist wouldn't help his cause in any way.
The writer of the article isn't saying Day[9] is sexist. He's saying that gamer culture is so male driven that things like this, which is mildly sexist, aren't really picked up on by other people in the community. The writer says he really likes what Day[9] is doing for gaming and his attitude towards being gamer. It's just he is sad that no one in the community cares about stuff like this which will scare off outsides who may want to join in.
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"Manly" is a termed used to define someone as being tough, strong, possibly bullheaded and strong willed.
"Girly" is a term we use to define someone as weak, shy and submissive.
When a girl is called "manly" it is usually because she is seen as either ugly or strong willed or even (in the case of the Olympics and Tennis (the Williams sisters)) because the woman is winning in a physical event far and above her peers.
Esports has this problem. Esports attacks female players such as Eve harassing her constantly for trying to get into Esports. When the Ironlady tournament was posted here on TL, it was also attacked by males.
The videogame "nerd" culture is a very misogynistic subgroup of society mostly because it is a very male oriented subgroup. Women are only understood as "part" of the group so long as they either play a part where they are objectified (Anna Prosser, lindsay sporrer) or if they attempt to be more masculine (such as the Ironlady tournament being attacked simply because i was female only).
This is not limited to ESports. Women are only really accepted into jock culture so long as they do "masculine" things such as enjoy football in an aggressive and competitive way (as opposed to simply talking about how much they think ______ player is cute/sexy).
In essence, so long as the female is objectified, they are not allowed to be female or feminine. This is not done directly to their face, this is done indirectly as females observe males throw insults at other males wherein the insults are normally a male calling the other male a female of some type (pussy, bitch, cunt) or calling the person who is dominating a sexually dominant figure (fucker, cock, "you fucked me over," "I got fucked over," etc...)
It's just the way it is in first world countries.
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saying young bitch isn't even sexist unless you interpret it as such..but then you'd be sexist yourself, lmao
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On September 18 2011 06:56 lorkac wrote:
(such as the Ironlady tournament being attacked simply because i was female only).
This is not limited to ESports. Women are only really accepted into jock culture so long as they do "masculine" things such as enjoy football in an aggressive and competitive way (as opposed to simply talking about how much they think ______ player is cute/sexy).
It's just the way it is in first world countries.
The Ironlady tournament in itself is sexist. ONLY female competitors? Seems pretty sexist to me. The problem with having Ironlady is that all other tournaments are not limited by gender, however there are female only ones and that is considered fine? Seems like pretty fucked up logic to me. :/
this i agree with. mostly because the point of football, or sports, or mma isnt to see who is the hottest or some bullshit, its about winning. its about playing a game, and being better/faster/stronger/smarter than your opponent. no one wants to listen to someone talk about some guys abs while theyre kicking someones ass in the Octogon. it takes away from the enjoyment of the activity. Girls would get pissed if all guys did when they did 'feminine' things was talk aobut how hot they thought the women were. Again, its this double standard bullshit that women dont seem to follow very well.
its like this in all countries, all over the world, since civilization began. its nothing new, idk why people are trying to say it is
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whats with all the articles about sexism in video games.... girls can get popular being skilled or just looking pretty on here.
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On September 18 2011 00:26 Cel.erity wrote:
I'd just like to remind everyone that this is a very long article which has very little to do with Day9, and a lot to do with our gaming culture in general, and you can't invalidate the entire piece of work just based on one example of sloppy journalism. Guaranteed that if one person e-mailed the editor of SCG, that quote would get removed and Geordie would apologize for it, so stop making such a fuss.
Sorry, accident or not, it is a big deal. The writer took a well-respected person from the e-sports community and held them up as an example of sexism in gaming by attributing a quote to Day9 that he never actually said. Its rotten "journalism" and the writer should apologize.
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EPT
