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BlackFlag
499 Posts
On August 17 2011 23:33 Tien wrote: Haemonculus I defend the rich because I have zero faith in how the government spends and wastes money. It isn't the rich's fault America's public debt is at 100% of GDP. Partly it is. | ||
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
Trust me, the rich didn't vote on entitlement programs to be as expensive and costly as they are now. And just because a few minority special interest groups pushed for defense spending to be so high doesn't mean 100% of the rich are responsible for that mess. Look at these numbers and edumicate yourselves on the real problem = government spending. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
safe investments might become more atractive for example with raising capital gains taxes and buffet is known for liking safe investments even getting more poor can make buffet richer say if everyone on the world looses half his monney and buffet looses 1 quarter he is still gaining just saying its not so easy to say he is saying this all for the greater good, we realy cant know and full agree on the comment about silly people who dont trust the government but do trust big international cooperations (who in the end run the government) to do "the right thing" LOL | ||
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TheGlassface
United States612 Posts
On August 17 2011 23:33 Tien wrote: Haemonculus I defend the rich because I have zero faith in how the government spends and wastes money. It isn't the rich's fault America's public debt is at 100% of GDP. Warren Buffet also agrees with me, because last time I checked, he's donating his entire net worth to charity, and not to the government. Charity organizations are just as wasteful and corrupted as any other area where large amounts of money are moved. Haiti had a large amount go missing recently Also, what are your thoughts on a chairman/ceo/etc. moving from a company to a government area like the FCC or sitting on as an advisory position? Because a lot of this waste and government spending is coming from the very same people you're defending now. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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Evs
Philippines330 Posts
And no, making it more fair by lowering everybody else's contribution is not the proper answer when your debt is already soaring high. Half baked answers like spending cuts can only get you so far - revenue must also be increased. | ||
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BlackFlag
499 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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thebigdonkey
United States354 Posts
On August 17 2011 23:48 Tien wrote: http://usdebtclock.org/ Trust me, the rich didn't vote on entitlement programs to be as expensive and costly as they are now. And just because a few minority special interest groups pushed for defense spending to be so high doesn't mean 100% of the rich are responsible for that mess. Look at these numbers and edumicate yourselves on the real problem = government spending. I haven't seen anyone argue that spending isn't the problem. It has been the problem for a decade now, everyone agrees on that, thus it's largely irrelevant to this discussion. The issue is somehow, during that time we were cutting taxes when we shouldn't have been. Nobody is proposing that any increased revenues simply be dumped back into more wasteful spending, I think all of us just want to start filling in the debt hole we've dug ourselves. In the near future, if our politicians have half a brain, taxes will be rising on almost every group. All I'd like to see is a reevaluation of how the wealthiest are taxed. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
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Equity213
Canada873 Posts
On August 17 2011 08:30 jcarlson08 wrote: You're right bro we should just say fuck it and default on everything, let our economy go to shit, let all our poor starve, and take the whole world down with us. God forbid Americans actually try and find a solution to their debt problem with responsible spending cuts and reasonable tax increases. Liquidated the bad debt is just about the only thing that is going to help your economy, so ummm yeah. But no, you dig deep down into your pocket and pay up because all those bombs and bank bailouts arent going to pay forthemselves. | ||
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Equity213
Canada873 Posts
On August 17 2011 23:53 BlackFlag wrote: In companies there's just as much waste going on, but it's just not even semi-transparent. You just see the waste in government more, because they owe you acountability. Nice assertion. The difference is that when a company wastes to much it goes out of a business and new entrepeneurs take over the capital. When a government wastes too much it just raises taxes or prints the difference. Accounting standards in the developed world are very stringent, and if governments had to conform to the same accounting that publicly traded companys do they would be in default. And to say that public companys owe you no accountability is nonsense. If they dont want to be delisted they need to provide continuous externally audited financial statements, of which analysist will be combing over looking for mistakes so they can short your stock. Furthermore if the shareholders dont like the management they can actually give them the boot. Public companys have 10x the accountability as government does. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On August 17 2011 23:33 Tien wrote: Haemonculus I defend the rich because I have zero faith in how the government spends and wastes money. Alright, so some extensive hatred for the government, gotcha. Hate government -> rich should pay less % taxes than everyone else -> ????? -> profit? What am I missing? | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On August 18 2011 00:03 Equity213 wrote: Nice assertion. The difference is that when a company wastes to much it goes out of a business and new entrepeneurs take over the capital. When a government wastes too much it just raises taxes or prints the difference. No, when a *massive* company wastes too much money we end up buying all of their debt with taxpayer money. That the government can pull money out of its ass with which to do so is another matter entirely. | ||
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Equity213
Canada873 Posts
On August 18 2011 00:06 Haemonculus wrote: No, when a *massive* company wastes too much money we end up buying all of their debt with taxpayer money. That the government can pull money out of its ass with which to do so is another matter entirely. haha if the government is offering up bailouts who is going to be stupid enough to say no. The government gave away your money. Those ocmpanys didnt steal it. I oppose bailouts more than anyone btw. The government gets the money from the bond market btw which you have to pay interest on. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph Be sure to notice in the congress-wages graph that 6 of the 10 highest paid congressmen/women, (who all voted to extend the Bush tax cuts) are democrats. I think we need a new political party or something. | ||
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jmack
Canada285 Posts
People need to pick up this cry. | ||
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Luzbeda
United States53 Posts
On August 17 2011 23:21 Haemonculus wrote: Where the hell do you live? 80k? Most teachers make roughly half that. They also furnish their classrooms out of their own pocket. My cousin teaches 4th grade at a public school in a very rich/yuppie part of town. The PTA gave her... $80 to spend on classroom supplies. Everything else, pencils, markers, books, crayons, cleaning supplies, posters, games, paper (for 30 kids), etc, she has to buy herself. Ever wonder why your teachers in elementary school were so stingy about not mistreating crayons? Because when you break them, *she* has to go buy new ones. She's also making a fraction of that 80k you're talking about, and puts in a LOT of hours. I'm honestly rather offended that you'd insinuate that teachers are overpaid. When did we start living in a world where workers making roughly 40k a year are overpaid, but CEO's making 40million a year are overtaxed? What sort of logic justifies those assertions? Very true. I work in the Wisconsin public schools and I see this first hand every day. If you know anything about politics in Wisconsin right now you can imagine what my coworkers are up against this year. We have a college drop-out, Republican governor who has ramrodded some of the most controversial right-wing legislation in our country's history despite the laments of thousands of protesters. Wisconsin schools have taken $800 million in cuts to funding (this year alone), and then to make up for that deficit in school funding, the right wing demonized teachers in Wisconsin (who make on average 45k a year with a Master's degree) to pass further legislation dissolving the teachers' union and making the maximum legal pay raise 1.6%. Although, teachers do retain the right to refuse their 1.6% raise, if any raise is offered. On top of that teachers must contribute more than twice as much to their health insurance which amounts to about a 7% pay cut. All of these cuts to teacher pay do not cover the $800 million, however, and students will ultimately be the ones to suffer. You won't have to take care of the crayons when there aren't any! Problem solved, right? At the same time corporations new to Wisconsin pay 0% taxes for 2 years and taxes on the highest income earners in Wisconsin have been slashed to near nothing. Unemployment continues to rise steadily. Wisconsin is a right-wing paradise. The rich are protected from taxation while the poor and middle class are kept nicely in their place. "Teacher" is a dirty word associated with "union thugs" living fat off of your tax money. My whole state is on tilt. Partisan politics and decisions made in anger have set myself and my coworkers up for an incredibly stressful and unrewarding year of trying to teach kids to read. Like when you are playing SC2 with too much on your mind, you know you cannot perform your best. As an educator it is kind of the same, except the stakes are a little higher because it is peoples' lives, opportunities, and education that you are affecting. How can we be expected to do our best in these environments, even though we absolutely try our best? | ||
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tiffany
3664 Posts
On August 17 2011 23:58 Haemonculus wrote: The national debt is such an astronomically large number by now that it's more of an abstract figure than something which can actually be paid off. I don't see us getting out of debt anytime soon, even if we raise taxes and cut spending everywhere. right, the task at hand is to reduce the deficit, not pay off the debt. actually paying off the debt lost feasibility well before current times (taking a guess here but i'd say probably after the new deal or around the vietnam war) | ||
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