• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:26
CET 15:26
KST 23:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - RO16 Preview3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational10SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)19Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Rongyi Cup S3 - RO16 Preview herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey!
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Which foreign pros are considered the best? BW General Discussion BW AKA finder tool
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Navigating the Risks and Rew…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1641 users

Republican nominations - Page 433

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 431 432 433 434 435 575 Next
drcatellino
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada346 Posts
February 11 2012 23:28 GMT
#8641
On February 12 2012 08:19 Dzemoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 08:06 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:04 Dzemoo wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:01 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 07:58 Dzemoo wrote:
^ I'm not going to quote all that so I'll just reply like this.


You need to get off of the notion that every single person is going to use the system the way it's going to be used. Whenever I go south of downtown their are tons of welfare recipient single mothers with brand new iPhones, all of their kids have Jordans, etc. None of these people work. They start fights, rob homes, and sell drugs, all while receiving the money of hard working Americans. I DO NOT want to help these people out. You're looking at this in a way that everybody has good intentions and nobody is looking to abuse the system, which is simply not true.

sorry to disagree with your anecdotal evidence, but i cant imagine a single mother who goes around starting fights, robbing homes, selling drugs.


btw, are you going to keep avoiding your embarrassing circular argument?



You can't? Then you need to get out into the real world.

+ Show Spoiler +


Haha, the top rated comment describes the video wayyy too good.

"What do you get when you take
1. Pregnant women with no idea who the baby's daddy is.
2. Ghetto moms raising trashy kids with no fathers.
3. Ghetto kids being raised in the ghetto, seeing mom be a hoe and lazy.
4. Not getting a good education, learn to only talk ebonics.
5. Ghetto kids turning into ghetto teenagers
6. Never getting a job because welfare is easy to get.
7.Ghetto teenagers getting other ghetto teenagers or becoming pregnant, therefore restarting the whole process.
AKA this video"

This is a great example of what happens when you give money to everyone. It's sad liberals can't see the world for what it is.

No I mean, I can't argue with you. I'm just obviously so delusional.

actually you know what? i'm right because i'm right. and i win the argument because im right. therefore im right.
maybe you'll take to that logic.


What? I'm not sure if you're trolling now or what. I give you reasons and a video of why this welfare-state is wrong, and you make some outrageous comment. Cool.

Post a random video of a black woman starting a fight
Think he just proved that "welfare-state" is wrong.

We should start a Circular Logic Scumbag Rightist meme.
quote unquote
Yongwang
Profile Joined January 2012
United States196 Posts
February 11 2012 23:29 GMT
#8642
I still believe that anyone in this country can be successful and/or rich if they truly work at it, is that so wrong?

This is a bit of a personal story, so take it as anecdotal evidence, but I met a French expat couple in my travels and when I asked him why he left France, he told me that there was too much government regulation and he simply couldn't make a living there with all of the collectivist policies and high taxes. Despite him saying these things, he still says that he supports the socialist welfare state system, even though it was the very reason he left his country to work abroad as an expat to begin with. That's not the kind of system I want in my country, no offense to anyone who supports that kind of system.

In a free society socialists can still live in that kind of society if they want to:
Yours is the most pathetic of all the lifeforms I've crushed.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 11 2012 23:31 GMT
#8643
So Romney just manages to eek out a win by 192 votes. 11% less than last time.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Dapper_Cad
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom964 Posts
February 11 2012 23:32 GMT
#8644
On February 12 2012 08:22 Undrass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 08:13 Lightwip wrote:
For hundreds of years, Europe spent fortunes on a military so that they could colonize the entire world. But after they killed each other so much in WWII that they just couldn't do it anymore, they decided to start complaining about how the United States does things(all the while complaining about American WWI/II isolationism). Funny how it works, huh?

It doesn't necessarily mean that you're rich if you work hard. However, the United States has a great degree of upward mobility. Even the poorest of immigrants can succeed here if they work hard. If you can do something really well that few other people can do that is useful, you can become extremely wealthy(CEO and such). It's harder to do this when you have to pay a fortune in taxes for government programs, no?

Of course the United States has problems, but so does Europe(Euro crisis for example). But don't think that what works for Europe must work for the United States too. It's two entirely different situations. European counties have a much less diverse and a much smaller population and landmass. Things tend to run more smoothly in general under such circumstances. Ever tried to build a transcontinental railroad? Probably not, because Europe doesn't have to have such large projects. That one project defined an era and had a complicated mess of turmoil, corruption, and politics that Europe avoided because of their division.

Europe(and Canada) and the United States are not the same. Let's not pretend the same things apply for both of them.


This is a myth. economic mobility is much lower in USA than in Canada and Scandinavian countries, even with much higher taxes.
[image loading]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility

EDIT: wrong link


That's not the only thing the poster got wrong. Europe has a larger population.
But he is never making short-term prediction, everyone of his prediction are based on fundenmentals, but he doesn't exactly know when it will happen... So using these kind of narrowed "who-is-right" empirical analysis makes little sense.
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
February 11 2012 23:33 GMT
#8645
On February 12 2012 08:32 Dapper_Cad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 08:22 Undrass wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:13 Lightwip wrote:
For hundreds of years, Europe spent fortunes on a military so that they could colonize the entire world. But after they killed each other so much in WWII that they just couldn't do it anymore, they decided to start complaining about how the United States does things(all the while complaining about American WWI/II isolationism). Funny how it works, huh?

It doesn't necessarily mean that you're rich if you work hard. However, the United States has a great degree of upward mobility. Even the poorest of immigrants can succeed here if they work hard. If you can do something really well that few other people can do that is useful, you can become extremely wealthy(CEO and such). It's harder to do this when you have to pay a fortune in taxes for government programs, no?

Of course the United States has problems, but so does Europe(Euro crisis for example). But don't think that what works for Europe must work for the United States too. It's two entirely different situations. European counties have a much less diverse and a much smaller population and landmass. Things tend to run more smoothly in general under such circumstances. Ever tried to build a transcontinental railroad? Probably not, because Europe doesn't have to have such large projects. That one project defined an era and had a complicated mess of turmoil, corruption, and politics that Europe avoided because of their division.

Europe(and Canada) and the United States are not the same. Let's not pretend the same things apply for both of them.


This is a myth. economic mobility is much lower in USA than in Canada and Scandinavian countries, even with much higher taxes.
[image loading]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility

EDIT: wrong link


That's not the only thing the poster got wrong. Europe has a larger population.

I do believe I mentioned European COUNTRIES.The EU is too loose a group to count.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
February 11 2012 23:35 GMT
#8646
On February 12 2012 07:23 Yongwang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 07:21 Undrass wrote:
On February 12 2012 07:03 Yongwang wrote:
On February 12 2012 07:01 darthfoley wrote:
On February 12 2012 06:59 Yongwang wrote:
lol your source is so biased that it isn't even considered safe: http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/atlanticreview.org


You believe Obama is a socialist, when he's generously considered "moderate" (more like center-right). I can't really take you seriously.

If you think there is anything moderate about Obama, then I feel sorry for you. He might be "centre-right" in a socialist or communist country, but in a freedom loving country, he is anything but.


In my country Obama would be a far-right candidate. I dont feel like a slave in my communist country. Its a strange world.

Obama wants to "fundamentally transform" (his words, not mine) America into a country like Norway, so how would he be far-right? Obama's views are in-line with the mainstream left in Europe.


Out of the UK, France, Switzerland, Germany, the Low Countries, and Scandanavia, there aren't any socialist countries. Stop using the word when you don't know what it means.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 11 2012 23:35 GMT
#8647
About 16% of Maine precincts didn't get to vote in the straw poll because they held caucuses outside the Feb. 4-11 window.


MAINE: Romney 2008 (2,837, 52%), Romney 2012 (2190, 39%).
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Focuspants
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada780 Posts
February 11 2012 23:36 GMT
#8648
On February 12 2012 08:19 Dzemoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 08:06 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:04 Dzemoo wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:01 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 07:58 Dzemoo wrote:
^ I'm not going to quote all that so I'll just reply like this.


You need to get off of the notion that every single person is going to use the system the way it's going to be used. Whenever I go south of downtown their are tons of welfare recipient single mothers with brand new iPhones, all of their kids have Jordans, etc. None of these people work. They start fights, rob homes, and sell drugs, all while receiving the money of hard working Americans. I DO NOT want to help these people out. You're looking at this in a way that everybody has good intentions and nobody is looking to abuse the system, which is simply not true.

sorry to disagree with your anecdotal evidence, but i cant imagine a single mother who goes around starting fights, robbing homes, selling drugs.


btw, are you going to keep avoiding your embarrassing circular argument?



You can't? Then you need to get out into the real world.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNYpgcenX0U&feature=related


Haha, the top rated comment describes the video wayyy too good.

"What do you get when you take
1. Pregnant women with no idea who the baby's daddy is.
2. Ghetto moms raising trashy kids with no fathers.
3. Ghetto kids being raised in the ghetto, seeing mom be a hoe and lazy.
4. Not getting a good education, learn to only talk ebonics.
5. Ghetto kids turning into ghetto teenagers
6. Never getting a job because welfare is easy to get.
7.Ghetto teenagers getting other ghetto teenagers or becoming pregnant, therefore restarting the whole process.
AKA this video"

This is a great example of what happens when you give money to everyone. It's sad liberals can't see the world for what it is.

No I mean, I can't argue with you. I'm just obviously so delusional.

actually you know what? i'm right because i'm right. and i win the argument because im right. therefore im right.
maybe you'll take to that logic.


What? I'm not sure if you're trolling now or what. I give you reasons and a video of why this welfare-state is wrong, and you make some outrageous comment. Cool.


Basically, no system is perfect. You can look for the worst common denominator, or you can look at the average person and the average results. If you want to base your argument that liberalism is wrong because I shouldnt pay money to help poor people because or a youtube video of a woman fighting in a dennys, then so be it. The real world has actual statistics. Ones that show that the things youre defending are factually untrue. Many have been posted in this thread. You choose not to believe any of it, then you use anecdotal evidence and circular reasoning to try to prove a point. Taxes are not evil. They pay for things. However, taxation is distributed fairly, based on your income. Your income is fascilitated by the society you live in. You pay back into that society for giving you the infrastructure, services, and opportunity to make the money you do. If you only make a little, you pay a little, if you make a lot, you pay more. Instead of having to mortgage your home, or go bankrupt to pay for a costly surgery that your insurance company (if you have one) may or may not cover, we pay a small % of our income yearly into a fund, that allows everyone the right to be treated. The system is set up for the primary function of keeping people healthy, instead of making profits.

We do the same for infrastructure, education, etc... and it all seems to work out. We have MUCH stricter regulations on business and the banks, and guess what, we didnt get totally raped by the recession because of that. Do you want to know why we have these regulations? The CONSERVATIVE party here wanted to do exactly what the US did in allowing them to play with peoples money. The LIBERALS didnt allow it, keeping our money seperate from the banks money (which they are allowed to play with as much as they like). The conservatives cried about it not being in line with a free market, it will reduce competition, blah blah, and now looking back, it saved our asses. Not everything is black and white. I agree with the conservative party on some of its ideas, and I agree with the Liberals on others. The problem is your guys conservative party is SO polarized and extreme on everything, that it doesnt allow for your citizens to hold beliefs that other systems and ideas can sometimes be right.
Dapper_Cad
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom964 Posts
February 11 2012 23:37 GMT
#8649
On February 12 2012 08:28 drcatellino wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 08:19 Dzemoo wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:06 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:04 Dzemoo wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:01 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 07:58 Dzemoo wrote:
^ I'm not going to quote all that so I'll just reply like this.


You need to get off of the notion that every single person is going to use the system the way it's going to be used. Whenever I go south of downtown their are tons of welfare recipient single mothers with brand new iPhones, all of their kids have Jordans, etc. None of these people work. They start fights, rob homes, and sell drugs, all while receiving the money of hard working Americans. I DO NOT want to help these people out. You're looking at this in a way that everybody has good intentions and nobody is looking to abuse the system, which is simply not true.

sorry to disagree with your anecdotal evidence, but i cant imagine a single mother who goes around starting fights, robbing homes, selling drugs.


btw, are you going to keep avoiding your embarrassing circular argument?



You can't? Then you need to get out into the real world.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNYpgcenX0U&feature=related


Haha, the top rated comment describes the video wayyy too good.

"What do you get when you take
1. Pregnant women with no idea who the baby's daddy is.
2. Ghetto moms raising trashy kids with no fathers.
3. Ghetto kids being raised in the ghetto, seeing mom be a hoe and lazy.
4. Not getting a good education, learn to only talk ebonics.
5. Ghetto kids turning into ghetto teenagers
6. Never getting a job because welfare is easy to get.
7.Ghetto teenagers getting other ghetto teenagers or becoming pregnant, therefore restarting the whole process.
AKA this video"

This is a great example of what happens when you give money to everyone. It's sad liberals can't see the world for what it is.

No I mean, I can't argue with you. I'm just obviously so delusional.

actually you know what? i'm right because i'm right. and i win the argument because im right. therefore im right.
maybe you'll take to that logic.


What? I'm not sure if you're trolling now or what. I give you reasons and a video of why this welfare-state is wrong, and you make some outrageous comment. Cool.

Post a random video of a black woman starting a fight
Think he just proved that "welfare-state" is wrong.

We should start a Circular Logic Scumbag Rightist meme.


If you're right, if all the -insert euphemism for people with dark skin here- in america are lazy, stupid, spoiled and have all the opportunities that everyone else has, what would happen to these people in a taxless state?
But he is never making short-term prediction, everyone of his prediction are based on fundenmentals, but he doesn't exactly know when it will happen... So using these kind of narrowed "who-is-right" empirical analysis makes little sense.
Dzemoo
Profile Joined January 2012
48 Posts
February 11 2012 23:37 GMT
#8650
On February 12 2012 08:26 Djabanete wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 08:19 Dzemoo wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:06 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:04 Dzemoo wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:01 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 07:58 Dzemoo wrote:
^ I'm not going to quote all that so I'll just reply like this.


You need to get off of the notion that every single person is going to use the system the way it's going to be used. Whenever I go south of downtown their are tons of welfare recipient single mothers with brand new iPhones, all of their kids have Jordans, etc. None of these people work. They start fights, rob homes, and sell drugs, all while receiving the money of hard working Americans. I DO NOT want to help these people out. You're looking at this in a way that everybody has good intentions and nobody is looking to abuse the system, which is simply not true.

sorry to disagree with your anecdotal evidence, but i cant imagine a single mother who goes around starting fights, robbing homes, selling drugs.


btw, are you going to keep avoiding your embarrassing circular argument?



You can't? Then you need to get out into the real world.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNYpgcenX0U&feature=related


Haha, the top rated comment describes the video wayyy too good.

"What do you get when you take
1. Pregnant women with no idea who the baby's daddy is.
2. Ghetto moms raising trashy kids with no fathers.
3. Ghetto kids being raised in the ghetto, seeing mom be a hoe and lazy.
4. Not getting a good education, learn to only talk ebonics.
5. Ghetto kids turning into ghetto teenagers
6. Never getting a job because welfare is easy to get.
7.Ghetto teenagers getting other ghetto teenagers or becoming pregnant, therefore restarting the whole process.
AKA this video"

This is a great example of what happens when you give money to everyone. It's sad liberals can't see the world for what it is.

No I mean, I can't argue with you. I'm just obviously so delusional.

actually you know what? i'm right because i'm right. and i win the argument because im right. therefore im right.
maybe you'll take to that logic.


What? I'm not sure if you're trolling now or what. I give you reasons and a video of why this welfare-state is wrong, and you make some outrageous comment. Cool.

Yes, he is trolling you. He's trolling you because you still haven't realized your justification of the "fact" that the wealthiest Americans are such because they work the hardest was completely circular. He's trolling you because everyone in the thread called you out on it and you selectively ignored that.

Simple question: are your blanket statements about the US's working class based on anything other than your anecdotes, what your mom and dad told you, and YouTube videos? If so, what? We're all curious.


Simple question: are your blanket statements about the US's working class based on anything other than what your psychology teacher told you?

Dude, the wealthiest Americans do in fact work the hardest. The ones that are born in to wealth had parents that worked hard for them. It's fair.

If you're going to work hard, save your money, and invest, then you deserve all your wealth and shouldn't have it taken away only to be given to someone too lazy to work.
Undrass
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway381 Posts
February 11 2012 23:37 GMT
#8651
On February 12 2012 08:04 Dzemoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 08:01 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 07:58 Dzemoo wrote:
^ I'm not going to quote all that so I'll just reply like this.


You need to get off of the notion that every single person is going to use the system the way it's going to be used. Whenever I go south of downtown their are tons of welfare recipient single mothers with brand new iPhones, all of their kids have Jordans, etc. None of these people work. They start fights, rob homes, and sell drugs, all while receiving the money of hard working Americans. I DO NOT want to help these people out. You're looking at this in a way that everybody has good intentions and nobody is looking to abuse the system, which is simply not true.

sorry to disagree with your anecdotal evidence, but i cant imagine a single mother who goes around starting fights, robbing homes, selling drugs.


btw, are you going to keep avoiding your embarrassing circular argument?



You can't? Then you need to get out into the real world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNYpgcenX0U&feature=related

Haha, the top rated comment describes the video wayyy too good.

"What do you get when you take
1. Pregnant women with no idea who the baby's daddy is.
2. Ghetto moms raising trashy kids with no fathers.
3. Ghetto kids being raised in the ghetto, seeing mom be a hoe and lazy.
4. Not getting a good education, learn to only talk ebonics.
5. Ghetto kids turning into ghetto teenagers
6. Never getting a job because welfare is easy to get.
7.Ghetto teenagers getting other ghetto teenagers or becoming pregnant, therefore restarting the whole process.
AKA this video"

This is a great example of what happens when you give money to everyone. It's sad liberals can't see the world for what it is.


SO we agree that to have a good start at life, you need a good education. The Capitalist system is the very reason that they aren't getting a education. Poor parents gives the child poor education, and with poor education you stay poor.

The best answer is for the government to finance a education for these children, so these can have a real shot at life. The money will later be payed back with taxes (they will pay more taxes because they will have a higher income, because of better education).
AUGcodon
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada536 Posts
February 11 2012 23:38 GMT
#8652
Look, no one denies that there can be rags to riches stories. But there is a reason that rag to riches stories is so rare. The fact is to jump from a lower class to a high class takes a mutiplitude of factors.

1) you have to work hard
2) you have to have great talent
3) luck

I don't think its an insult to Michael Jordan to state that his wealth was all of his own effort. He works harder than the majority of people and he certainly had talent. But he would have never been this sucessful if we didn't have the NBA, or have a large segment of the population to spend money on useless things such as jerseys.

People try to climb the ladder all the time, people who climbed near the top should make sure that the ladder can still be climbed for the next generation.
2809-8732-2116/ Fighting/ Mienfoo, Tyrogue, Sawk
Undrass
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway381 Posts
February 11 2012 23:40 GMT
#8653
On February 12 2012 08:33 Lightwip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 08:32 Dapper_Cad wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:22 Undrass wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:13 Lightwip wrote:
For hundreds of years, Europe spent fortunes on a military so that they could colonize the entire world. But after they killed each other so much in WWII that they just couldn't do it anymore, they decided to start complaining about how the United States does things(all the while complaining about American WWI/II isolationism). Funny how it works, huh?

It doesn't necessarily mean that you're rich if you work hard. However, the United States has a great degree of upward mobility. Even the poorest of immigrants can succeed here if they work hard. If you can do something really well that few other people can do that is useful, you can become extremely wealthy(CEO and such). It's harder to do this when you have to pay a fortune in taxes for government programs, no?

Of course the United States has problems, but so does Europe(Euro crisis for example). But don't think that what works for Europe must work for the United States too. It's two entirely different situations. European counties have a much less diverse and a much smaller population and landmass. Things tend to run more smoothly in general under such circumstances. Ever tried to build a transcontinental railroad? Probably not, because Europe doesn't have to have such large projects. That one project defined an era and had a complicated mess of turmoil, corruption, and politics that Europe avoided because of their division.

Europe(and Canada) and the United States are not the same. Let's not pretend the same things apply for both of them.


This is a myth. economic mobility is much lower in USA than in Canada and Scandinavian countries, even with much higher taxes.
[image loading]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility

EDIT: wrong link


That's not the only thing the poster got wrong. Europe has a larger population.

I do believe I mentioned European COUNTRIES.The EU is too loose a group to count.


You can't bunch up all European countries in one group, and generalize everything. Saying Government involvement is bad, and point your finger at Greece, is misinformation.
Dapper_Cad
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom964 Posts
February 11 2012 23:41 GMT
#8654
On February 12 2012 08:33 Lightwip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 08:32 Dapper_Cad wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:22 Undrass wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:13 Lightwip wrote:
For hundreds of years, Europe spent fortunes on a military so that they could colonize the entire world. But after they killed each other so much in WWII that they just couldn't do it anymore, they decided to start complaining about how the United States does things(all the while complaining about American WWI/II isolationism). Funny how it works, huh?

It doesn't necessarily mean that you're rich if you work hard. However, the United States has a great degree of upward mobility. Even the poorest of immigrants can succeed here if they work hard. If you can do something really well that few other people can do that is useful, you can become extremely wealthy(CEO and such). It's harder to do this when you have to pay a fortune in taxes for government programs, no?

Of course the United States has problems, but so does Europe(Euro crisis for example). But don't think that what works for Europe must work for the United States too. It's two entirely different situations. European counties have a much less diverse and a much smaller population and landmass. Things tend to run more smoothly in general under such circumstances. Ever tried to build a transcontinental railroad? Probably not, because Europe doesn't have to have such large projects. That one project defined an era and had a complicated mess of turmoil, corruption, and politics that Europe avoided because of their division.

Europe(and Canada) and the United States are not the same. Let's not pretend the same things apply for both of them.


This is a myth. economic mobility is much lower in USA than in Canada and Scandinavian countries, even with much higher taxes.
[image loading]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility

EDIT: wrong link


That's not the only thing the poster got wrong. Europe has a larger population.

I do believe I mentioned European COUNTRIES.The EU is too loose a group to count.


You talk about Europe as a single entity when it suits you, when you are finger painting a historical narrative, when it doesn't Europe is "too lose a group to count"?

Nice dodge on the social mobility data too.
But he is never making short-term prediction, everyone of his prediction are based on fundenmentals, but he doesn't exactly know when it will happen... So using these kind of narrowed "who-is-right" empirical analysis makes little sense.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
February 11 2012 23:43 GMT
#8655
On February 12 2012 08:13 Lightwip wrote:
For hundreds of years, Europe spent fortunes on a military so that they could colonize the entire world. But after they killed each other so much in WWII that they just couldn't do it anymore, they decided to start complaining about how the United States does things(all the while complaining about American WWI/II isolationism). Funny how it works, huh?

It doesn't necessarily mean that you're rich if you work hard. However, the United States has a great degree of upward mobility. Even the poorest of immigrants can succeed here if they work hard. If you can do something really well that few other people can do that is useful, you can become extremely wealthy(CEO and such). It's harder to do this when you have to pay a fortune in taxes for government programs, no?

Of course the United States has problems, but so does Europe(Euro crisis for example). But don't think that what works for Europe must work for the United States too. It's two entirely different situations. European counties have a much less diverse and a much smaller population and landmass. Things tend to run more smoothly in general under such circumstances. Ever tried to build a transcontinental railroad? Probably not, because Europe doesn't have to have such large projects. That one project defined an era and had a complicated mess of turmoil, corruption, and politics that Europe avoided because of their division.

Europe(and Canada) and the United States are not the same. Let's not pretend the same things apply for both of them.


There's actually a good amount of data out there that shows that western European countries like (lets take one of those "socialist" countries) Denmark has more social mobility than the U.S.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Dzemoo
Profile Joined January 2012
48 Posts
February 11 2012 23:43 GMT
#8656
On February 12 2012 08:37 Undrass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 08:04 Dzemoo wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:01 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 07:58 Dzemoo wrote:
^ I'm not going to quote all that so I'll just reply like this.


You need to get off of the notion that every single person is going to use the system the way it's going to be used. Whenever I go south of downtown their are tons of welfare recipient single mothers with brand new iPhones, all of their kids have Jordans, etc. None of these people work. They start fights, rob homes, and sell drugs, all while receiving the money of hard working Americans. I DO NOT want to help these people out. You're looking at this in a way that everybody has good intentions and nobody is looking to abuse the system, which is simply not true.

sorry to disagree with your anecdotal evidence, but i cant imagine a single mother who goes around starting fights, robbing homes, selling drugs.


btw, are you going to keep avoiding your embarrassing circular argument?



You can't? Then you need to get out into the real world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNYpgcenX0U&feature=related

Haha, the top rated comment describes the video wayyy too good.

"What do you get when you take
1. Pregnant women with no idea who the baby's daddy is.
2. Ghetto moms raising trashy kids with no fathers.
3. Ghetto kids being raised in the ghetto, seeing mom be a hoe and lazy.
4. Not getting a good education, learn to only talk ebonics.
5. Ghetto kids turning into ghetto teenagers
6. Never getting a job because welfare is easy to get.
7.Ghetto teenagers getting other ghetto teenagers or becoming pregnant, therefore restarting the whole process.
AKA this video"

This is a great example of what happens when you give money to everyone. It's sad liberals can't see the world for what it is.


SO we agree that to have a good start at life, you need a good education. The Capitalist system is the very reason that they aren't getting a education. Poor parents gives the child poor education, and with poor education you stay poor.

The best answer is for the government to finance a education for these children, so these can have a real shot at life. The money will later be payed back with taxes (they will pay more taxes because they will have a higher income, because of better education).


Not entirely true. You don't need an education to realize that living off of welfare and stealing is wrong.
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
February 11 2012 23:44 GMT
#8657
On February 12 2012 08:37 Dzemoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 08:26 Djabanete wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:19 Dzemoo wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:06 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:04 Dzemoo wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:01 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 07:58 Dzemoo wrote:
^ I'm not going to quote all that so I'll just reply like this.


You need to get off of the notion that every single person is going to use the system the way it's going to be used. Whenever I go south of downtown their are tons of welfare recipient single mothers with brand new iPhones, all of their kids have Jordans, etc. None of these people work. They start fights, rob homes, and sell drugs, all while receiving the money of hard working Americans. I DO NOT want to help these people out. You're looking at this in a way that everybody has good intentions and nobody is looking to abuse the system, which is simply not true.

sorry to disagree with your anecdotal evidence, but i cant imagine a single mother who goes around starting fights, robbing homes, selling drugs.


btw, are you going to keep avoiding your embarrassing circular argument?



You can't? Then you need to get out into the real world.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNYpgcenX0U&feature=related


Haha, the top rated comment describes the video wayyy too good.

"What do you get when you take
1. Pregnant women with no idea who the baby's daddy is.
2. Ghetto moms raising trashy kids with no fathers.
3. Ghetto kids being raised in the ghetto, seeing mom be a hoe and lazy.
4. Not getting a good education, learn to only talk ebonics.
5. Ghetto kids turning into ghetto teenagers
6. Never getting a job because welfare is easy to get.
7.Ghetto teenagers getting other ghetto teenagers or becoming pregnant, therefore restarting the whole process.
AKA this video"

This is a great example of what happens when you give money to everyone. It's sad liberals can't see the world for what it is.

No I mean, I can't argue with you. I'm just obviously so delusional.

actually you know what? i'm right because i'm right. and i win the argument because im right. therefore im right.
maybe you'll take to that logic.


What? I'm not sure if you're trolling now or what. I give you reasons and a video of why this welfare-state is wrong, and you make some outrageous comment. Cool.

Yes, he is trolling you. He's trolling you because you still haven't realized your justification of the "fact" that the wealthiest Americans are such because they work the hardest was completely circular. He's trolling you because everyone in the thread called you out on it and you selectively ignored that.

Simple question: are your blanket statements about the US's working class based on anything other than your anecdotes, what your mom and dad told you, and YouTube videos? If so, what? We're all curious.


Simple question: are your blanket statements about the US's working class based on anything other than what your psychology teacher told you?

I made no blanket statements. I was simply wondering whether you were getting your "facts" from anywhere. So far it seems that either you're not, or that you don't want to share.
May the BeSt man win.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 11 2012 23:45 GMT
#8658
STOP DEBATING ABOUT EUROPE
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Housemd
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1407 Posts
February 11 2012 23:46 GMT
#8659
I'm actually wondering about the video that YW linked. If Ron Paul supporters stick around, wouldn't they vote for him at the convention? Additionally, since Ron Paul supporters are extremely loyal, wouldn't they be assigned to the convention and hence vote for him and hence give him more delegates?
Fantasy is a beast
Undrass
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway381 Posts
February 11 2012 23:47 GMT
#8660
On February 12 2012 08:43 Dzemoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 08:37 Undrass wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:04 Dzemoo wrote:
On February 12 2012 08:01 Roe wrote:
On February 12 2012 07:58 Dzemoo wrote:
^ I'm not going to quote all that so I'll just reply like this.


You need to get off of the notion that every single person is going to use the system the way it's going to be used. Whenever I go south of downtown their are tons of welfare recipient single mothers with brand new iPhones, all of their kids have Jordans, etc. None of these people work. They start fights, rob homes, and sell drugs, all while receiving the money of hard working Americans. I DO NOT want to help these people out. You're looking at this in a way that everybody has good intentions and nobody is looking to abuse the system, which is simply not true.

sorry to disagree with your anecdotal evidence, but i cant imagine a single mother who goes around starting fights, robbing homes, selling drugs.


btw, are you going to keep avoiding your embarrassing circular argument?



You can't? Then you need to get out into the real world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNYpgcenX0U&feature=related

Haha, the top rated comment describes the video wayyy too good.

"What do you get when you take
1. Pregnant women with no idea who the baby's daddy is.
2. Ghetto moms raising trashy kids with no fathers.
3. Ghetto kids being raised in the ghetto, seeing mom be a hoe and lazy.
4. Not getting a good education, learn to only talk ebonics.
5. Ghetto kids turning into ghetto teenagers
6. Never getting a job because welfare is easy to get.
7.Ghetto teenagers getting other ghetto teenagers or becoming pregnant, therefore restarting the whole process.
AKA this video"

This is a great example of what happens when you give money to everyone. It's sad liberals can't see the world for what it is.


SO we agree that to have a good start at life, you need a good education. The Capitalist system is the very reason that they aren't getting a education. Poor parents gives the child poor education, and with poor education you stay poor.

The best answer is for the government to finance a education for these children, so these can have a real shot at life. The money will later be payed back with taxes (they will pay more taxes because they will have a higher income, because of better education).


Not entirely true. You don't need an education to realize that living off of welfare and stealing is wrong.


Refusing to take the welfare wont give them an education and ability to move upwards economically.
Prev 1 431 432 433 434 435 575 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
11:00
Season 13 World Championship
Solar vs ClemLIVE!
Classic vs herO
WardiTV1700
IndyStarCraft 225
LiquipediaDiscussion
RongYI Cup
11:00
Group A
ByuN vs TriGGeR
herO vs Rogue
RotterdaM728
Harstem261
BRAT_OK 141
Rex140
3DClanTV 74
CosmosSc2 63
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 691
Harstem 261
IndyStarCraft 222
BRAT_OK 141
Rex 140
CosmosSc2 58
ProTech55
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3901
Rain 2980
Horang2 1550
Stork 939
GuemChi 734
ggaemo 508
Snow 488
firebathero 350
BeSt 321
Mini 221
[ Show more ]
Hyuk 221
Last 200
Mong 164
Soulkey 163
hero 137
Barracks 123
Zeus 93
Hyun 89
Backho 75
Sharp 55
Shinee 53
Movie 51
Shuttle 48
soO 47
Killer 39
Mind 38
JYJ 28
ToSsGirL 27
ajuk12(nOOB) 24
910 19
Terrorterran 19
Free 16
Noble 16
Yoon 16
GoRush 14
Icarus 12
HiyA 12
Sacsri 10
Dota 2
Gorgc4108
qojqva3096
Dendi656
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2543
byalli2176
shoxiejesuss1487
edward175
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi1424
B2W.Neo1339
crisheroes344
Hui .146
Happy123
XaKoH 122
Mew2King96
QueenE84
Fuzer 80
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 5
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• naamasc220
• iHatsuTV 14
• Kozan
• Laughngamez YouTube
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4548
• WagamamaTV340
League of Legends
• Jankos2481
• TFBlade917
Upcoming Events
RongYI Cup
20h 34m
Clem vs ShoWTimE
Zoun vs Bunny
Big Brain Bouts
1d 2h
Serral vs TBD
RongYI Cup
1d 20h
SHIN vs Creator
Classic vs Percival
OSC
1d 22h
BSL 21
2 days
RongYI Cup
2 days
Maru vs Cyan
Solar vs Krystianer
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL 21
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-20
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Rongyi Cup S3
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.