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New Zealand politics - Page 8

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Kiwifruit
Profile Joined August 2011
New Zealand130 Posts
August 22 2011 08:07 GMT
#141
Why should it be moved to blogs? The NZ election is coming up in November, I fail to see how this would be any different to say the Republican Nominations thread.
"You take the good things from every different discipline, use what works, and you throw the rest away" - Bruce Lee, Atheist.
CaptainCharisma
Profile Joined February 2011
New Zealand808 Posts
August 22 2011 08:56 GMT
#142
On August 22 2011 17:03 ThunderGod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 15:18 wonderwall wrote:
Whats this, fellow NZ Law Students on TL? What year/university are you in?

Now's not the time to admit to being a law student. This thread was terrible to begin with and continues it spiral down the shitter. It's not just that people are arguing about politics on the internet (an exercise in futility), they are arguing on minute points of detail that have nothing to do with what they were originally talking about. Seriously guys, just take your arguments to private messaging, noone wants to read 10 posts a page of you guys attacking each other.
I still hold some little hope of reading some positive policy discussion in this thread.

Tbh though the only reason the OP wasn't shifted to blogs immediately is that none of the mods know anything about NZ politics. The fact that the OPer triple posted and then got banned within 15 minutes should have been a clue.



There was some good discussion of the anti-smacking law and some less interesting discussion of abortion. The election is still a ways off, policy issues will come to the forefront soon I'd say.
EG.DeMuslim --- EG.ThorZain --- TSL.Polt --- LGIMMvp --- Mill.fOrGG --- EG.Stephano --- EGiNcontroL --- EG.IdrA --- MarineKing.Prime --- SlayerS_MMA --- Liquid'Hero
Generic SC
Profile Joined May 2010
New Zealand179 Posts
August 22 2011 09:38 GMT
#143
wow I can actually contribute for once since my part time job for a market research firm let me do research for the election.

National will win, partly because labour lacks the leadership it needs to pull through strongly and hone harawira's party with lolfail.
DJ_Amal
Profile Joined October 2010
New Zealand62 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-22 09:44:51
August 22 2011 09:39 GMT
#144
On August 21 2011 20:19 lothar10 wrote:
DJ_Amal, you'll like this video if you haven't seen it yet



Speech by Sir Paul Callaghan regarding NZ's strengths in certain industries and how we should focus on those instead of other more traditional ones that we do

LOL, I was invited to go to one of his lecture at Vic as part of the Chancellor lecture series. I think what he said made perfect sense and even though the green has their ideas slightly off (in terms of creating green tech industry) but they are the only one who are thinking about turning New Zealand economy into a more high value economy by going high tech. Then again the greens are politicians just like the rest of them. If only Sir Paul Callaghan is running for PM, I would so vote for him as my views on NZ is the same as his, sigh.

By the way for those who are going to vote for National I am curious as to why do you want this government to stay in power. Is it because of their economic policies, social policies or because you like the look of John Key.

By the way I don't mean to ask this question in a disrespectful way, I am just curious as to the reasons behind your decision and I will not judge you on your answer.

As for economic policies this government hasn't done anything to improve our economy. Ok they say they are planning to increase savings but this government have substantially increased government debt (and this is before the quake). I just find this government to lack any substance and are not willing to take real actions that are needed.

CaptainCharisma
Profile Joined February 2011
New Zealand808 Posts
August 22 2011 09:44 GMT
#145
On August 22 2011 18:38 Generic SC wrote:
wow I can actually contribute for once since my part time job for a market research firm let me do research for the election.

National will win, partly because labour lacks the leadership it needs to pull through strongly and hone harawira's party with lolfail.


Are you saying you think Mana won't receive many votes AND Hone Harawira won't win his electorate (lolfail), or just that Mana won't receive many votes? Because I thought he had a good shot at winning back Te Tai Tokerau.

Did you gather any information on the likelihood of Winston Peters returning to Parliament with NZFirst? I miss him a lot :D, so entertaining.

[image loading]
EG.DeMuslim --- EG.ThorZain --- TSL.Polt --- LGIMMvp --- Mill.fOrGG --- EG.Stephano --- EGiNcontroL --- EG.IdrA --- MarineKing.Prime --- SlayerS_MMA --- Liquid'Hero
Goragoth
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
New Zealand1065 Posts
August 22 2011 09:54 GMT
#146
On August 22 2011 18:39 DJ_Amal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2011 20:19 lothar10 wrote:
DJ_Amal, you'll like this video if you haven't seen it yet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhCAyIllnXY

Speech by Sir Paul Callaghan regarding NZ's strengths in certain industries and how we should focus on those instead of other more traditional ones that we do

LOL, I was invited to go to one of his lecture at Vic as part of the Chancellor lecture series. I think what he said made perfect sense and even though the green has their ideas slightly off (in terms of creating green tech industry) but they are the only one who are thinking about turning New Zealand economy into a more high value economy by going high tech. Then again the greens are politicians just like the rest of them. If only Sir Paul Callaghan is running for PM, I would so vote for him as my views on NZ is the same as his, sigh.

By the way for those who are going to vote for National I am curious as to why do you want this government to stay in power. Is it because of their economic policies, social policies or because you like the look of John Key.

By the way I don't mean to ask this question in a disrespectful way, I am just curious as to the reasons behind your decision and I will not judge you on your answer.

As for economic policies this government hasn't done anything to improve our economy. Ok they say they are planning to increase savings but this government have substantially increased government debt (and this is before the quake). I just find this government to lack any substance and are not willing to take real actions that are needed.


Personally I won't vote for National since it would take rather unusual circumstances for me to vote right of centre but there's not too much to criticise the current government about. Sure they aren't perfect, but government never is. There is little they can do to truly boost the economy, NZ is so tiny that we rely heavily on how the rest of the world is doing and with the US and Europe in recession we're unlikely to do too well.

As for debt, I'm all for increasing it, NZ doesn't have a high government debt burden and when the economy is down is exactly the time to engage in deficit spending. Balancing the budget in a recession is about the stupidest thing you can do, however you do need the discipline to pay down the debt when the economy is booming.
Creator of LoLTool.
ThunderGod
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
New Zealand897 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-22 10:00:16
August 22 2011 09:57 GMT
#147
On August 22 2011 17:07 Kiwifruit wrote:
Why should it be moved to blogs? The NZ election is coming up in November, I fail to see how this would be any different to say the Republican Nominations thread.

Huh, permabanned.
I enjoyed that video DJ-Amal, it had some good ideas. Makes me wish we lived in a technocracy.
"Certain forms of popular music nowadays, namely rap and hip hop styles, are just irritating gangsters bragging about their illegal exploits and short-sighted lifestyles." - Shiverfish ~2009
CaptainCharisma
Profile Joined February 2011
New Zealand808 Posts
August 22 2011 10:06 GMT
#148
Did anyone notice how Kiwifruit's account was created shortly after the OP was banned, and they both held the same views? Also, Kiwifruit was the one who bumped this thread for no apparent reason some 20 days after it had stagnated...

Now Kiwifruit is banned.
EG.DeMuslim --- EG.ThorZain --- TSL.Polt --- LGIMMvp --- Mill.fOrGG --- EG.Stephano --- EGiNcontroL --- EG.IdrA --- MarineKing.Prime --- SlayerS_MMA --- Liquid'Hero
oldgregg
Profile Joined February 2011
New Zealand1176 Posts
August 22 2011 10:08 GMT
#149
labour and the greens are the only ones who actually give a f**k about average kiwis, im voting for one of them
Calculatedly addicted to Substance D for profit by drug terrorists
DJ_Amal
Profile Joined October 2010
New Zealand62 Posts
August 22 2011 10:10 GMT
#150
On August 22 2011 18:54 Goragoth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 18:39 DJ_Amal wrote:
On August 21 2011 20:19 lothar10 wrote:
DJ_Amal, you'll like this video if you haven't seen it yet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhCAyIllnXY

Speech by Sir Paul Callaghan regarding NZ's strengths in certain industries and how we should focus on those instead of other more traditional ones that we do

LOL, I was invited to go to one of his lecture at Vic as part of the Chancellor lecture series. I think what he said made perfect sense and even though the green has their ideas slightly off (in terms of creating green tech industry) but they are the only one who are thinking about turning New Zealand economy into a more high value economy by going high tech. Then again the greens are politicians just like the rest of them. If only Sir Paul Callaghan is running for PM, I would so vote for him as my views on NZ is the same as his, sigh.

By the way for those who are going to vote for National I am curious as to why do you want this government to stay in power. Is it because of their economic policies, social policies or because you like the look of John Key.

By the way I don't mean to ask this question in a disrespectful way, I am just curious as to the reasons behind your decision and I will not judge you on your answer.

As for economic policies this government hasn't done anything to improve our economy. Ok they say they are planning to increase savings but this government have substantially increased government debt (and this is before the quake). I just find this government to lack any substance and are not willing to take real actions that are needed.


Personally I won't vote for National since it would take rather unusual circumstances for me to vote right of centre but there's not too much to criticise the current government about. Sure they aren't perfect, but government never is. There is little they can do to truly boost the economy, NZ is so tiny that we rely heavily on how the rest of the world is doing and with the US and Europe in recession we're unlikely to do too well.

As for debt, I'm all for increasing it, NZ doesn't have a high government debt burden and when the economy is down is exactly the time to engage in deficit spending. Balancing the budget in a recession is about the stupidest thing you can do, however you do need the discipline to pay down the debt when the economy is booming.

Totally agree with you that now is a good time for more government spending and exercise fiscal discipline in the good times to pay off those debts. I was just pointing out National's argument of increasing savings in NZ but somehow they are increasing our debt, so they have completely failed with their goal.
DJ_Amal
Profile Joined October 2010
New Zealand62 Posts
August 22 2011 10:12 GMT
#151
On August 22 2011 18:57 ThunderGod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 17:07 Kiwifruit wrote:
Why should it be moved to blogs? The NZ election is coming up in November, I fail to see how this would be any different to say the Republican Nominations thread.

Huh, permabanned.
I enjoyed that video DJ-Amal, it had some good ideas. Makes me wish we lived in a technocracy.

I didn't post that video, it was posted by lothar10. Just giving credit where credit is due.
LastDance
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
New Zealand510 Posts
August 22 2011 10:26 GMT
#152
On August 22 2011 19:08 oldgregg wrote:
labour and the greens are the only ones who actually give a f**k about average kiwis, im voting for one of them


no, Labour cares about the kiwis who don't contribute to the country and don't intend to contribute to the country.

i think national has some great policies coming into this election.
oldgregg
Profile Joined February 2011
New Zealand1176 Posts
August 22 2011 10:37 GMT
#153
On August 22 2011 19:26 LastDance wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 19:08 oldgregg wrote:
labour and the greens are the only ones who actually give a f**k about average kiwis, im voting for one of them


no, Labour cares about the kiwis who don't contribute to the country and don't intend to contribute to the country.

i think national has some great policies coming into this election.


what are some of nationals policies that you are looking forward to? heard of the search and surveillance bill?
Calculatedly addicted to Substance D for profit by drug terrorists
Swede
Profile Joined June 2010
New Zealand853 Posts
August 22 2011 10:51 GMT
#154
On August 22 2011 19:06 CaptainCharisma wrote:
Did anyone notice how Kiwifruit's account was created shortly after the OP was banned, and they both held the same views? Also, Kiwifruit was the one who bumped this thread for no apparent reason some 20 days after it had stagnated...

Now Kiwifruit is banned.


From the automated ban list...
"Kiwifruit was just banned by EvilTeletubby.

That account was created on 2011-08-19 10:56:38 and had 130 posts.

Reason: Stop making accounts here. Get a fucking hint."
Kar98
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia924 Posts
August 22 2011 13:02 GMT
#155
Oh NZers, for the sake of your country don't you dare vote greens :/
Dali.
Profile Joined June 2010
New Zealand689 Posts
August 22 2011 13:41 GMT
#156
On August 22 2011 22:02 Kar98 wrote:
Oh NZers, for the sake of your country don't you dare vote greens :/


May we ask why?
Don Brash
Profile Joined September 2011
New Zealand6 Posts
September 26 2011 20:54 GMT
#157
What did you guys think about my ideas regarding the decriminalisation of cannabis?

+ Show Spoiler +
LAW AND ORDER: PROTECTING NEW ZEALANDERS FROM CRIME


An address by Don Brash Leader, ACT New Zealand; 25 September 2011; Waipuna Lodge, Auckland

Ladies and gentlemen,

As we prepare to elect a new Parliament, I'm delighted to have this opportunity to share some of my reflections on one of government's most crucial functions: the maintenance of law and order in the context of a free society.

In fact, along with the defence of the country – the protection of its citizens from foreign aggression – the protection of its citizens from internal aggression is government's most crucial function.

Its importance is shown in the fact that not an election goes by without its being a political football. I'm sure this election will be no exception!

With so many people here today from the Asian community, I'm delighted to note in passing that, if the example you set were more widely followed, law and order would be much less of an issue.

Asians are admirably and spectacularly under-represented in our crime statistics!

In 2004, there were 167 arrests for every 10,000 Asians in the country, 320 arrests for every 10,000 Europeans, and 1,448 arrests for every 10,000 Maori.

I doubt the figures have altered appreciably since then. Certain high-profile exceptions notwithstanding, Asians such as yourselves – both New Zealand-born and immigrant – have long been exemplary citizens: quietly and lawfully going about your business, being good New Zealand citizens while retaining your identity, looking after your families, working extremely hard and generally achieving great results with a minimum of fuss and bother.

You have been much more often the victims of crime than the perpetrators of crime.

I'm tempted to say that the entrepreneurial ethic is part of your DNA – except that that would be to insult you. You've chosen to embrace and practise it – and for that I salute you.

As a politician, my message to voters generally is, “Ask not what the government can do for you; ask what you can do for yourselves.” In the case of this audience, such a message is redundant.

In society at large, however, there are still too many unwilling to make their own way in life, honestly and peaceably. How we deal with such people, and minimise their numbers, is the subject of my comments today.

Actually, there are encouraging signs their numbers may already be falling. Statistics suggest that violent crime is down this year for only the second time since 2000. Much credit for this is due to our National Party colleagues, and in particular to Police Minister Judith Collins, who among many other good things has put more police on the beat with encouraging results. Three hundred additional frontline officers were assigned to Counties Manukau recently, for instance, and recorded crime in the area dropped by over 3%.

It's too early to be certain that the Three Strikes legislation that the ACT Party successfully steered through Parliament has also played a part in the improved crime statistics, though this was precisely the sort of outcome supporters of the legislation expected.

But, even if this encouraging trend continues, I believe there are some quite fundamental things that need to change if we’re to drive crime figures down permanently to as low a level as can reasonably be expected in a free society.

I should say at this point that ACT is still in the process of finalising specific law and order policies for the upcoming election.

What I want to share with you is the kind of thinking that is shaping that policy formulation, so that when I do announce policy specifics, none of them should come as a shock to you!

The backdrop to all our policy is a basic bed-rock principle: that individuals are the rightful owners of their own lives and therefore have inherent rights and responsibilities. The proper purpose of government is to protect those rights and not to assume those responsibilities.

And a fundamental right is the right to defend oneself from attack when the government is not there to do so – the right to self-defence, in other words.

It's a right currently recognised in law under Section 48 of the New Zealand Crimes Act:
“Everyone is justified in using, in defence of himself or another, such force as, in the circumstances as he believes them to be, it is reasonable to use.”

Unfortunately this law has been honoured in recent times as much in the breach as in the observance.

Anyone who injures, much less kills, an intruder or attacker is as likely to be prosecuted as the intruder or attacker!

Furthermore, the intruder or attacker might well seek compensation for his injury, or for having his feelings hurt … and in this crazy politically correct world, it's entirely possible he'll get it!

Many of you will remember the case of gun-shop owner Greg Carvell. He shot and wounded an intruder who was threatening him and two staff members with a machete. Instead of applauding him, police charged him with possession of a pistol for unlawful purposes. The judge who sentenced the machete-wielder was moved to deplore the charges against Mr Carvell. As were the public-at-large. But Mr Carvell had to endure a year with the charges hanging over him before the police yielded to common sense, decency and public outrage … and dropped them.

Northland farmer Paul McIntyre was not so lucky. He did have to go to trial. His saga went on for two and a half years after he shot and wounded one of three men trying to steal his farm-bike. Police brought two charges against him: shooting the would-be thief with reckless disregard for the safety of others, and discharging a shotgun without reasonable cause in a manner likely to endanger the safety of any person. A jury found him not guilty on the first charge but couldn't reach a verdict on the second, meaning he had to endure another trial on that charge. The judge in that trial took the rare step of directing the jury to find Mr McIntyre not guilty without the trial proceeding … and there, finally, this travesty of justice ended. It should never have started.

Mr McIntyre's legion of supporters asked at the time why a blameless man, alone late at night in a remote location, should be charged for defending himself against three intruders attempting to steal his property. The answer, of course, is that he shouldn't have been. I believe we must now make it so that he couldn't be.

Note that the problem is not what the law says – everyone is entitled to use reasonable force in self-defence – but the way in which police have often chosen to thumb their nose at it.

You'll remember no doubt the case of Virender Singh, owner of a liquor store in Otara. Wielding a hockey stick, he chased off five drunken youths trying to steal alcohol from his store. One of them stabbed him. Mr Singh was arrested and charged on two counts of injuring with intent. A police spokesman said Mr Singh had used too much force and his arrest was a warning to others not to take the law into their own hands. They should ring 111, he said. Six months later, a Justice of the Peace in the Manukau District Court decided there was no case to answer and the charges were dropped. Charges should never have been laid to begin with.

A couple of months prior to the arrest of Virender Singh, another Mr Singh, Navtej, in another liquor store, had refrained from taking the law into his own hands. He offered no resistance to several youths staging an armed robbery of his store. Regardless, one of them shot him in the abdomen. Mr Singh's business partner did dial 111. Police arrived … 31 minutes later. A subsequent inquiry found the slow police response to the 111 call was unjustifiable and materially contributed to the delay in getting emergency medical treatment to Mr Singh … Mr Singh having died of his wounds in hospital the day after being shot. It was, and is, precious little consolation to his family that he had not taken the law into his own hands.

Ladies and gentlemen, these kinds of episodes are a blight on any society claiming to be civilised.

My intention is to see that ACT Party policy reflects a firm commitment to Section 48 of the Crimes Act.

To that end, I believe that the right to self-defence should be enshrined in our Bill of Rights also. It's already ACT policy to add private property rights to the Bill of Rights; the right to self-defence should be there too.

The Crimes Act should be amended to include a presumption – not a guarantee, but a presumption – of immunity from prosecution for anyone who uses reasonable force to defend his person and/or property.

And I would favour amending Section 56, which currently says:
“Everyone in peaceable possession of any land or building, and everyone lawfully assisting him or acting by his authority, is justified in using reasonable force to prevent any person from trespassing on the land or building or to remove him therefrom, if he does not strike or do bodily harm to that person.”

I would delete the words “if he does not strike or do bodily harm to that person.” If a trespasser turns violent, it's entirely possible that any reasonable force used to evict him will involve striking him or causing him bodily harm. The law should allow for that.

The key concept in all of this of course is “reasonable.” Shooting someone who's retrieving a tennis ball he or she has accidentally lobbed onto your property would clearly be unreasonable, not to mention despicable … and should most definitely be prosecutable.

But – and this is the bottom line as far as I'm concerned – the status quo where innocent people are more likely than not to be prosecuted for using legitimate force in self-defence and in defence of their property must be overturned.

Your home is your castle; your body is your temple. The law must be unequivocal in allowing you to defend both with reasonable force.

I pledge that ACT policy will be directed to that end.

Part of the status quo three years ago that the National Government has taken laudable steps to overturn was an ethos that coddled perpetrators of crime and cold-shouldered their victims. Too often, the wellbeing of the criminal appeared to be paramount; his victims were ignored by the system, left to fend for themselves.

The Victims of Crime Reform Bill currently before Parliament goes a long way toward dealing with this problem. Among other things, it seeks to “increase the accountability and responsiveness of government agencies providing services to victims.”

It paves the way for victims, in their Victim Impact Statements, to be far more candid when they confront those who have wronged them than they've been able to be in the past.

In the past, statements were watered down by judges so as not to unduly hurt the perpetrators' feelings. They were often a very tepid reflection of the victim's feelings, thus denying the victim the powerful catharsis a frank account would enable, and sparing the perpetrator the full blast of his victim's wrath, hurt and pain.

But I'm concerned that a provision in the Bill allowing judges to refuse requests to make Victim Impact Statements for fear of a risk to anyone's safety or disruption of court proceedings might still act as a dampener on the content of such statements.

If a judge has such a fear, it should be open to him to ensure extra precautions are taken to ensure everyone's safety. It should not be an option to deny the victim his or her right to make an Impact Statement. That right should be absolute, and I hope the legislation in its final form will uphold that.

Perpetrators should not be spared the full blast of their victims' wrath, hurt and pain.

Concern for the hurt feelings of criminals is, of course, a sign of our crazy politically correct times. If I were to state another overarching objective I believe should guide our policy formulation, it would be the banishing of political correctness from our legal system.

Just a few months ago a hardened criminal was awarded $3500 for breach of privacy and hurt feelings. This particular man has a long and violent criminal history. His record includes aggravated robbery, aggravated assault of a police officer, unlawful possession of firearms and trying to escape from custody. He's in jail as we speak. At least, I hope he is.

At some point he learned that the Ministry of Social Development had wrongly listed him as having a conviction under the heading of “Domestic Violence.” That's one thing that is not part of his record thus far. The Ministry refused to correct the mistake and apologise. The man went to the Privacy Commissioner and the Human Rights Review Tribunal saying that, given the injury to his feelings, nothing less than an apology and monetary compensation would be acceptable to him. The Tribunal agreed that he'd suffered emotional harm and ordered not just the payout but suppression of the man's name lest he be caused further emotional distress.

Ladies and gentlemen, could a satirist writing fiction improve on this?!

Or on the ACC payout of $20,000 to a serial burglar for a new ear to be constructed, to replace the one bitten off by a police dog as he practised his craft?

At this point, I don't know what would be required, legislatively speaking, to put a stop to such grotesque inversions of justice, but my position is: whatever it takes is what we should do!

As I indicated at the outset, what I'm offering today are musings rather than definitive policy announcements – musings that will give you some idea where we're headed in our policy formulation.

There are so many things relevant to this vast and often complex topic that I could muse about – concurrent sentencing, domestic violence, name suppression, secret surveillance, to name just a few – but time permits me just one more this afternoon.

I've already stated ACT's support for the Government's boosting of police numbers. Making sure there are enough police to keep us safe from criminals – and that they're “out there,” accessible, on the beat – should always be a primary priority for any government.

So should making sure that the laws the police are enforcing are in fact keeping us safe from criminals.

Laws that do not serve that purpose, and indeed possibly make us more vulnerable to criminals, should not be on the statute books to begin with.

In that respect I have to say, after long and painstaking reflection, I have come to have serious questions about our current marijuana laws.

Since 1927, it's been a criminal offence to possess, use, produce or sell cannabis in New Zealand.

The police and the courts spend some $100 million of taxpayer money a year enforcing this prohibition of a drug believed by many people to be less dangerous than tobacco or alcohol. Is there really any point to this?

Some 6000 people are prosecuted every year for cannabis offences. Are we any safer for this?

It is believed that some 400,000 New Zealanders are cannabis users. In other words, some 400,000 New Zealanders routinely flout the law – roughly 10% of the total population. Has the sky fallen in?

Apparently, a majority of New Zealanders think this law is an ass. The last poll I saw, admittedly not a very scientific one, on stuff.co.nz, had 64% of respondents in favour of decriminalisation. Has the time come to pursue that option?

Just a couple of months ago, the Global Commission on Drug Policy pronounced the international War on Drugs a failure and recommended that governments should explore legalising marijuana and other controlled substances.

The Global Commission's members, I should add, include former UN Secretary-General Kofi Anan, former US Secretary of State George Schultz, former US Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker, former presidents of Brazil, Peru and Colombia, a former Prime Minister of Greece, and businessman Richard Branson. These are hardly dope-addled hippies or wild-eyed radicals. They reported that drug prohibition has had devastating effects on individuals and societies all around the world and said the War on Drugs as we know it should end.

In the United Kingdom, the Liberal Democrats – in coalition with the Conservative Party – favour the decriminalization of all drugs.

In April this year, our own Law Commission, whose President at the time was former Prime Minister Sir Geoffrey Palmer – again, hardly a dope-addled hippy or wild-eyed radical – recommended allowing cannabis for medicinal use and substituting a cautioning regime for criminal penalties in non-medicinal cases.

I'm haunted by the thought that all that police time and all those police resources could be better deployed in actually keeping us safe from real criminals intent on harming us, instead of making criminals of 400,000 New Zealanders who are harming no one – except, arguably, themselves, which is their prerogative in a free society.

I'm deeply troubled by the fact that the biggest beneficiaries of prohibition are the gangs, just as organised crime was the biggest beneficiary of the ill-fated prohibition of alcohol in the United States.

I'm troubled by all the crime gangs commit in pursuit of their illicit trade, and all the innocent victims caught in the crossfire.

I hasten to add I do not advocate or approve of marijuana use. Unlike Helen Clark and Peter Dunne, I haven't ever tried it and I have absolutely no intention of doing so. But I have to ask myself by what right I would ban someone else from using it, or support a law that does so, especially when I'm leader of the political party in New Zealand that is most committed to personal freedom.

Let me be absolutely clear: I'm not saying it's now ACT policy to decriminalise or legalise marijuana. I'm simply saying it's my personal view that we should give the idea serious consideration as there are some strong arguments in its favour – arguments supported by some seriously sober and responsible national and international leaders.

I hope I've succeeded in conveying the flavour of my thinking on the matters I've touched on, and indeed matters I haven't, as my colleagues and I continue the process of formulating our law and order policy.

When we do announce that policy, you may be sure that it’ll be driven by four over-arching considerations:

1. making sure the government does as much as possible to keep you safe from criminals;

2. making sure that when the government can't be there, you won't be criminalised for taking reasonable steps to keep yourself safe from criminals;

3. making sure you're not criminalised for any action that is in fact a victimless crime; and

4. making sure victims are not treated as criminals, and criminals are not treated as victims.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen.


ENDS
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-26 21:19:37
September 26 2011 21:18 GMT
#158
Well, I definitely won't be voting Labour. Minimum wage raised to $15 an hour? I'll lose my job or have my hours severely cut, and may not get the next job I'm trying to get if the small company I want to work for can't afford that. Raising minimum wage doesn't help anybody, and it hurts people at the bottom end of the scale like me. I bet if there was no minimum wage at all I wouldn't have had to search for so long for my first job...

And I won't be voting National either. They're too....soft? They do some good stuff and some bad stuff and don't do much of either very well. And the copyrights amendment and the surveillance act are both very big brother.

I don't see any reason to vote act or greens or maori. All the larger parties are meh, I might vote bill&ben or the conservative party or something.

As for decriminilization of cannabis, I don't smoke pot nor do I want to, nor do I approve of it, but it isn't the government's job to illegalize it. There's a good chance that if it was legalized it'd become just a minor recreational thing to do like in the netherlands.

To the people saying increasing government debt is a good thing: WHY is it a good thing? And how often to governments actually pay back much or any of the money during the good years?
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Helen Clark
Profile Joined November 2011
4 Posts
November 02 2011 02:57 GMT
#159
I selected these two as they represent the pure left and right of New Zealand politics, and the fact that their opening addresses are only one minute long as opposed to the boring Labour and National ones. Which party appeals to you more?





Poll: Alliance or Libertarianz?

Libertarianz (2)
 
67%

Alliance (1)
 
33%

3 total votes

Your vote: Alliance or Libertarianz?

(Vote): Alliance
(Vote): Libertarianz

CaptainCharisma
Profile Joined February 2011
New Zealand808 Posts
November 20 2011 14:47 GMT
#160
Oh Hai DiscretionaryDuck/Kiwifruit/Helen Clark...decided to make yet another account huh?

I wouldn't classify Alliance as the pure left in this country. Libertarianz are pure right however, which is why their policies are batshit insane.
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