EPTRossi's energy catalyzer - Page 4
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acker
United States2958 Posts
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decemvre
Romania639 Posts
On July 27 2011 10:56 Desti wrote: When you got a nobel prize for one special part, it does not mean you have knowledge of other kinds of physics. Josephson is already know for talking shit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_David_Josephson#Parapsychology Also look at his publications, after 1965 he has not published anything about physics, only religious comments. Didn't know this. Yeah, thats bullshit. Still, the other 2 swedish guys also have a video saying more or less the same thing. No chemical reaction. Also; 1MW station being built. I don't know what to think anymore. Luckily this is not one of those predictions like Nostradamus made. "The world will end 400 years after my death, so i can't be held accountable but alot of gullible people can go ahead and go nuts about it" This is just a few months away. | ||
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Lochat
United States270 Posts
On July 27 2011 09:55 Diks wrote: Glad you made a thread on TL about this, I was thinking about doing the same. This better not be an elaborated hoax as Rossi sold tons of e-cats to Greece. I don't have to remind you the economical situation the greece is in, but if this invention happen to REALLY work as they say; this is gonna be the most important invention since internet. I'm crossing my fingers really hard, I don't want mass delusion on this one. Also to note :Energy cartels are ruling the world right now, they won't let their supremacy get destroyed by some man and an invention that isn't even explainable with our curent physic understanding. Here is a very interesting and educative talk about the topic : http://www.youtube.com/user/AlienScientist#p/u/2/FJ9DXAJudmg I'm really curious and I'm gonna continue to follow this case. Are you trolling with that youtube link? | ||
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InvalidID
United States1050 Posts
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
Oh did you listen to it or just have prejudices about the nickname of the channel ? I can understand the later part, but you should focus on the content and not on the stereotypical idea that you have on it. If you have listened to it and think I'm a troll, please explain. (Discussion about Rossi's device and cold fusion starts at 15:00 (previous speech is still interesting imho) | ||
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onmach
United States1241 Posts
Even if by some miracle it is not a scam (it is) they will artificially keep the price of energy high so that they can rake in the money. Like how we recently gained the ability to make cheap artificial diamonds, but no one is selling them cheaply because they just protect their process and keep the price high and they get tons of money. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On July 27 2011 12:41 onmach wrote: It is obviously a scam. It has been done a thousands of times before and it will happen thousands of times more. Free energy. They just want investors to fork over money and then they will spend it as quickly as they can. I tend to agree with this. It would be nice to have a reliable alternative energy source but this sounds too good to be true. Cold fusion started in the 80's and has been going nowhere because the fundamentals are not understood. There was plenty of money thrown at this. Even if by some miracle it is not a scam (it is) they will artificially keep the price of energy high so that they can rake in the money. Like how we recently gained the ability to make cheap artificial diamonds, but no one is selling them cheaply because they just protect their process and keep the price high and they get tons of money. This however makes no sense. The reason that artificial diamonds are not replacing normal ones is because consumers don't like to be sold "fakes". They are used in industrial processes all the time. Plus, if the person commercialising this wanted to make the most profit, they would expand to the point where they can satisfy demand. Monopoly hurts everyone in the end as it shrinks the market. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
On July 27 2011 12:41 onmach wrote: Even if by some miracle it is not a scam (it is) they will artificially keep the price of energy high so that they can rake in the money. Like how we recently gained the ability to make cheap artificial diamonds, but no one is selling them cheaply because they just protect their process and keep the price high and they get tons of money. That's like saying, if someone could print out the Mona Lisa to be almost unidentifiable from the original, that people would pay hundreds of millions for the copies. I'll give you a hint. They wouldn't. | ||
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Ruthless
United States492 Posts
On July 27 2011 08:28 decemberTV wrote: Thats a very strong point you make.  "Free Energy" sounds very very scary though, doesn;t it ? At least in the short term it would be economic devastation. Not only on the energy markets; everywhere ! If you have free energy, you can exploit anything, indefinitely, you can mine anything, you can grow and, transform and build anything for free. Quickly all monetary units will simply devalue over night; If you no longer need to work 8 hours a day to receive monetary units what will 7 billion people do with their time ? 14 billion ? 28 billion in a few decades ? Wealth will mean nothing still we have a number of jobs that require the practitioner to undertake massive education and preparation. If someone sleeping all day will make as much as anyone else; if you can afford anything anywhere what will possibly motivate people to achieve wealth and greatness ? Already we see that a lot of people enjoying "too much freedom" grow more and more stupid each day. Each generation seems to be more stupid than the previous one in all western countries. My simple question is. How stupid will the 28 billion retards be in 2050 if this turns out to be true ?!?!? Hard to get much stupider than this post haha. Made me laugh. Apparently free energy = free work? It might be able to put the manual laborer out of a job, but until Computers are able to "think" free energy doesnt mean theres no value to human's thinking. There are other costs besides the energy required to make something happen lol. Cant make a house with just energy. Need materials. | ||
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illumiel
United States75 Posts
This makes an awesome heater. But process they are claiming they would be able to achieve at commercial level is still not as efficient as nuclear reactors at this point. Possibly in future they can improve it. This gives out heat, not electricity at a ratio of about 1W to 8W. That means you feed it 1W of electricity it gives out 8W of heat. Heat is quite hard to convert to electricity. In fact max theoretical limit is 40% (http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/thermoelectric.html). Current best commercial methods achieve 10% of that theoretical limit(to be on optimistic side lets say 20%). So that is .5*.2 = 8%. 1W of electricity goes in 8W of heat comes out. You can convert 8W of heat into 0.64W of electricity. So no free energy. What a bust. After that add materials that you need to keep feeding into reactor to keep reaction going and you will see this energy is expensive. It is just so happens that it is at least order of magnitude ahead of coal burning we use right now. That means it is great heater but we will not be able to use this to generate electricity yet. It will not give out free energy. | ||
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Disquiet
Australia628 Posts
On July 27 2011 14:10 illumiel wrote: Electricity generated by this method should be viable enough to extract hydrogen from ocean and use that instead of gas for your car. of course hydrogen is flammable and I am sure few idiots that listen to TV would be against it. This will likely give enough grounds for banning those kinds of cars. While electrical cars will be much more viable, this will not kill gasoline cars. and petrol is not? lol, flammable is nothing new | ||
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arbitrageur
Australia1202 Posts
On July 27 2011 12:41 onmach wrote: It is obviously a scam. It has been done a thousands of times before and it will happen thousands of times more. Free energy. They just want investors to fork over money and then they will spend it as quickly as they can. So what all the physicists that have observed this machine in action are mistaken how? I'm sure you have a deep understanding of the theoretical underpinnings of the claim and how all the demonstrations have been faked. Rofl. | ||
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Crazyeyes
Canada1342 Posts
Well, that sounds like free energy. Whats stopping you from putting that new, 4x amount of energy back into the device? You just loop it around for free energy? Or does that not make sense? XD Also, if this is a scam, this is the worst scam of all time. Didn't they say that they will not accept any money until they have it working? If its a scam, they'l lnever have it working, and therefore they'll never have money. The reactor they're building in greece costs 200+ million or something, from what I understnad, but they are only going to get paid after its completed and confirmed to be working. So tell me, how is this a scam? Unless I just misunderstood. | ||
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illumiel
United States75 Posts
Basically you put in 1W and max you can extract is 8W of heat or less then .64W of electricity. In their Demo they gave it 400W and reportedly extracted 10400W of heat energy. Now that on commercial scale may break barrier of getting more electricity then you put, but there will be materials consumed in the reaction. So let us say we use Carnot limit of 40%, and MIT estimate of 10% (http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/thermoelectric.html). This will give us 4% efficiency of turning heat into electricity. Thus 10400 * .04 = 440W. Not much. In fact pending how much chemicals it consumes this could be extremely expensive method to generate electricity. I really hope this is real and they will find a way to make reaction yields better. Cheaper energy will go a long way in average standard of life on this planet. | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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Traeon
Austria366 Posts
On July 27 2011 10:53 caradoc wrote: Its a scam-- they don't even reveal the inside of the machine, their results have been rejected from scientific journals, and observers are not allowed to bring in anything to the demonstrations that would pick up gamma radiation/alpha particles/neutron emissions, etc, which would prove that fusion is occurring. Your statement is incorrect. Observers have been allowed to measure radiation with a variety of devices. The video in this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10490460 at 20:14 has Prof. Francesco Celani from the INFN (National Institute of Nuclear Physics in Italy) talking about his measurements during the Bologna presentation. There is also plenty of talk in the Bologna Test video about devices and measurements. He used the following devices: gamma spectrometer, mini geiger device, microwave detector, ELF detector. All battery operated. "I ran some checks to make sure, in the first place, that there were no hidden sources of radioactivity somewhere near the reactor. Secondly, that there were no generators of powerful electromagnetic interference capable of jamming electronic instruments. Thirdly, that there were no massive power cables around capable of simulating a power excess of 10 kW with nothing but a water boiler. I ran these checks without Rossi's knowledge and everything seemed OK [...] Mr Rossi came out of the room delighted: 'The reactor has started' Before he came out, a few minutes before, I had independently measured that both the gamma and the mini geiger had hit the top of the scale, whereas the two detectors of electromagnetic interference were not showing anything. This meant that a short but intense emission of gamma radiation had taken place. Afterwards everything went back to normal and we stayed in the hall to see what was happening. After about half an hour, I don't recall the time exactly, I was allowed to go and take a look at the working reactor with my portable detector set for gamma count and began to perform a check. I noticed that there was an increase in total gamma radiation compared to the amount recorded before the experiment, not a dangerous increase, about 50%. And most important, it wasn't a steady increase but rather a very, very unstable one. This means that something was alive inside and changing the emission, the feeble emission, of gammas " The one thing they were not allowed to do is a spectrometric reading on the chamber because that would tell them what the catalyst substance is. It would threaten Rossi's industrial secret. | ||
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Traeon
Austria366 Posts
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Traeon
Austria366 Posts
On July 27 2011 14:26 illumiel wrote: Updated my post with some more research. Given commercial application they are proposing (1:8 ratio) it is not possible to produce more electrical energy then device consumes. Basically you put in 1W and max you can extract is 8W of heat or less then .64W of electricity. In their Demo they gave it 400W and reportedly extracted 10400W of heat energy. Now that on commercial scale may break barrier of getting more electricity then you put, but there will be materials consumed in the reaction. So let us say we use Carnot limit of 40%, and MIT estimate of 10% (http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/thermoelectric.html). This will give us 4% efficiency of turning heat into electricity. Thus 10400 * .04 = 440W. Not much. In fact pending how much chemicals it consumes this could be extremely expensive method to generate electricity. I really hope this is real and they will find a way to make reaction yields better. Cheaper energy will go a long way in average standard of life on this planet. The input/output ratio of the commercial version is claimed to go from 1:6 to 1:30. Electricity is needed to start the device. However it's possible for it to self sustain itself with its own heat production. Piantelli (Rossi's competitor) even claims he'll be able to get 1:200 input/output ratio, though he hasn't shown any working reactors yet. Source: http://ecatnews.com/?p=581 Interestingly he also says that he has complete mathematical theory about the process and it's fully explainable by current theories. Piantelli's patent application: http://www.wipo.int/patentscope/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2010058288&recNum=1&docAn=IB2009007549&queryString=ALLNAMES:(piantelli)&maxRec=1 | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On July 27 2011 04:17 Otolia wrote: Cold Fusion is HIGHLY subject to discussion in the community. It's probably not something similar to a fusion since the mechanism of fusion is quite well understood. However since schrödinger equations can't be solved for Nickel, it could also be an new phenomenon. We will see, however since they produce heat, they will face the usual problems, so it's not anything revolutionary. When you will hear about someone having discovered something which has supraconductivity properties at ~77K, then you will be able to enjoy a near endless supply of energy. I almost fear what will happen once the golden teat of oil has been pulled from the mouths of all the middle eastern countries. | ||
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Cuddle
Sweden1345 Posts
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