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Rossi's energy catalyzer - Page 32

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Rassy
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2308 Posts
January 23 2012 01:29 GMT
#621
Hmm interesting, there have been to manny claims in the past though for me to not be extremely sceptical about it.
Just saw the nasa vid and there is one thing i dont understand.
In the vid they say that they add neurons to an element, wich then splits itself into 2 differerent elements OF THE SAME MASS
The mass stays the same , i thought that the energy of all nuclear reactions came from the destruction of matter (mass)

Annyway, it all seems realy interesting and if even nasa has something about it on their site there must be some potential.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
January 23 2012 01:35 GMT
#622
No, the energy comes from the breaking of the strong nuclear force for the most part.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
TibblesEvilCat
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom766 Posts
January 23 2012 01:42 GMT
#623
i'm more concerned with the containing if energy, makes me thinks there just a dirty bombs.

:mods feel free to del any posts i make here.
Live Fast Die Young :D
ElMeanYo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1032 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-23 05:21:19
January 23 2012 05:21 GMT
#624
New article describing the current LENR-Rossi-eCat state of affairs. A very informative read for those of you wanting to 'catch-up' on the situation:

http://www.examiner.com/paranormal-in-st-louis/andrea-rossi-sinner-or-saint

“The only man who never makes mistakes is the man who never does anything.” ― Theodore Roosevelt
GeyzeR
Profile Joined November 2010
250 Posts
January 23 2012 15:13 GMT
#625
On January 22 2012 09:06 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
America would not be harmed in the least bit. In fact, assuming that it really could produce cheap energy, our economy would boom from such a technology.

"Demand for USD would drop" = silly nonsense that wouldn't harm the US in the slightest.


1. Usually the country currency is backed up by its national economy. But it is not the case with America. The world 2 most wanted products, oil and loans, are nominated in USD, thus creating demand for it. If you leave just American economy behind USD, it will inflates to almost zero. Take note that Hussein stopped to accept USD for Iraqi oil, Gaddafi wanted to sell it for his new-coming currency golden dinar and Iran (its fall in progress) does not accept USD for its oil.
"Since the agreements of 1971 and 1973, OPEC oil is exclusively quoted in US dollars. This created a permanent demand for dollars on the international exchange markets." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrocurrency#Currencies_used_to_trade_oil)
The "good" oil countries sell oil for USD no questions and the "evil" oil countries sells or wanted to sell it not for USD.
It is all just a coincidence, of course
Saudi lobbies for USD and USA protects Saudi regime, despite its absolute monarchy, sharia, wahhabism etc.
Never heard about USA helping to bring democracy to Saudi Arabia, have you? Here is an article to start with for someone who was not aware of this special relationship http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/03/10/doesnt-obama-democracy-saudi-arabia/

The new cheap autonomic energy is the same as oil for non USD.
Before: I need energy->I need oil->I need only USD
After: I need energy->I do not need exclusively USD.
See? Demand for USD would drop.

Also higher price of oil->higher demand for USD->better for USA. Also do not forget that USA has oil too. It is more expensive to extract than in the other countries, but as the oil price goes up, it becomes profitable.

I just wanted to show how important it is to control the energy currency.

2. USA economy is mainly finances and services, not industry. It will not benefit from cheap energy as, for example, China. Cheap energy = much stronger China, the gap between these two superpowers will decrease.

You see, the cheap energy question is highly political. While the entire humanity would benefit from it, some will lose some advantages. The cheep energy will not damage America directly, but it will take away some of its monopoly and bufs a lot USA opponents.
The question is if these country will do bad things to suppress the new energy technologies or let it happen for better overall good.
Traeon
Profile Joined July 2010
Austria366 Posts
January 23 2012 15:54 GMT
#626
On January 24 2012 00:13 GeyzeR wrote:
You see, the cheap energy question is highly political. While the entire humanity would benefit from it, some will lose some advantages. The cheep energy will not damage America directly, but it will take away some of its monopoly and bufs a lot USA opponents.


The US has invested a lot into securing oil in the middle east. All the wars and money spent will be for nothing because the big oil shortage which might justify this course of action (economically at least) will not come.
DiLiGu
Profile Joined December 2011
United States185 Posts
January 23 2012 16:33 GMT
#627
Here's hoping this isn't a brutal scam.

While I understand that he's being secretive to "guard his secret" you'd think he'd be able to write a very sound NDA, have a well-known scientist take a look and give it a thumbs up, and that would be that.

If this LENR really does work, this technology coupled with plasma arc waste disposal could really change the world for the better.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
January 23 2012 18:23 GMT
#628
On January 24 2012 00:13 GeyzeR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2012 09:06 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
America would not be harmed in the least bit. In fact, assuming that it really could produce cheap energy, our economy would boom from such a technology.

"Demand for USD would drop" = silly nonsense that wouldn't harm the US in the slightest.


1. Usually the country currency is backed up by its national economy. But it is not the case with America. The world 2 most wanted products, oil and loans, are nominated in USD, thus creating demand for it. If you leave just American economy behind USD, it will inflates to almost zero. Take note that Hussein stopped to accept USD for Iraqi oil, Gaddafi wanted to sell it for his new-coming currency golden dinar and Iran (its fall in progress) does not accept USD for its oil.
"Since the agreements of 1971 and 1973, OPEC oil is exclusively quoted in US dollars. This created a permanent demand for dollars on the international exchange markets." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrocurrency#Currencies_used_to_trade_oil)
The "good" oil countries sell oil for USD no questions and the "evil" oil countries sells or wanted to sell it not for USD.
It is all just a coincidence, of course
Saudi lobbies for USD and USA protects Saudi regime, despite its absolute monarchy, sharia, wahhabism etc.
Never heard about USA helping to bring democracy to Saudi Arabia, have you? Here is an article to start with for someone who was not aware of this special relationship http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/03/10/doesnt-obama-democracy-saudi-arabia/

The new cheap autonomic energy is the same as oil for non USD.
Before: I need energy->I need oil->I need only USD
After: I need energy->I do not need exclusively USD.
See? Demand for USD would drop.

Also higher price of oil->higher demand for USD->better for USA. Also do not forget that USA has oil too. It is more expensive to extract than in the other countries, but as the oil price goes up, it becomes profitable.

I just wanted to show how important it is to control the energy currency.

2. USA economy is mainly finances and services, not industry. It will not benefit from cheap energy as, for example, China. Cheap energy = much stronger China, the gap between these two superpowers will decrease.

You see, the cheap energy question is highly political. While the entire humanity would benefit from it, some will lose some advantages. The cheep energy will not damage America directly, but it will take away some of its monopoly and bufs a lot USA opponents.
The question is if these country will do bad things to suppress the new energy technologies or let it happen for better overall good.


Demand for oil drops so demand for USD drops.

Fine. This causes the dollar to lose value relative to other currencies. But so what? The end result would be that we'd have an easier time exporting our products to other countries which would strengthen our economy. The downside would be more inflation (imports more expensive). This would cause the Fed to raise interest rates which would then increase the demand for USD.

----------

Would this new technology help the US or China more? That's debatable but has that stopped any other technological improvement from happening? In just the last few years horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing has revolutionized the natural gas markets and caused the price of natural gas to fall tremendously and to the benefit of millions of households.
gorbonic
Profile Joined April 2010
United States73 Posts
January 23 2012 18:44 GMT
#629
On January 23 2012 14:21 ElMeanYo wrote:
New article describing the current LENR-Rossi-eCat state of affairs. A very informative read for those of you wanting to 'catch-up' on the situation:

http://www.examiner.com/paranormal-in-st-louis/andrea-rossi-sinner-or-saint


Interesting! And here's a quote from that article:

Having accomplished this, rather than publishing his results in peer reviewed scientific journals, he chose to treat it as intellectual property and pursue a commercial venture to develop, market, and distribute an actual product to the world. Even his harshest critics would have to admit that he is entirely in his right to do so.

Hrmm...No, I think his harshest critics would probably have good reason to demand that he publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. In fact, I think his most forgiving critics would expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. Even his most sympathetic supporters should expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal.
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
January 23 2012 18:53 GMT
#630
On January 24 2012 03:44 gorbonic wrote:
Show nested quote +
Having accomplished this, rather than publishing his results in peer reviewed scientific journals, he chose to treat it as intellectual property and pursue a commercial venture to develop, market, and distribute an actual product to the world. Even his harshest critics would have to admit that he is entirely in his right to do so.

Hrmm...No, I think his harshest critics would probably have good reason to demand that he publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. In fact, I think his most forgiving critics would expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. Even his most sympathetic supporters should expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal.


As the article mentions: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=250561

It's just not how things work in the real world if you want to make financial gains. Scientific journals are also rather notorious among frontier fields (especially in computer science fields) for being incredibly stubborn and often "missing the boat" on amazing discoveries. You can find many stories of incredible discoveries and inventions that had to go through dozens of journals before finally being published by some minor outlet. And at this point there is absolutely zero financial gain in publishing his findings in a journal. Zilch.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
gorbonic
Profile Joined April 2010
United States73 Posts
January 23 2012 19:11 GMT
#631
On January 24 2012 03:53 Southlight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 03:44 gorbonic wrote:
Having accomplished this, rather than publishing his results in peer reviewed scientific journals, he chose to treat it as intellectual property and pursue a commercial venture to develop, market, and distribute an actual product to the world. Even his harshest critics would have to admit that he is entirely in his right to do so.

Hrmm...No, I think his harshest critics would probably have good reason to demand that he publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. In fact, I think his most forgiving critics would expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. Even his most sympathetic supporters should expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal.


As the article mentions: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=250561

It's just not how things work in the real world if you want to make financial gains. Scientific journals are also rather notorious among frontier fields (especially in computer science fields) for being incredibly stubborn and often "missing the boat" on amazing discoveries. You can find many stories of incredible discoveries and inventions that had to go through dozens of journals before finally being published by some minor outlet. And at this point there is absolutely zero financial gain in publishing his findings in a journal. Zilch.

I would think that in fields involving danger, expense, and inherent novelty and skepticism (e.g., pharmaceuticals, new forms of energy production), scientific credibility would invite more venture capital.
forgottendreams
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1771 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-23 19:38:18
January 23 2012 19:33 GMT
#632
On January 23 2012 14:21 ElMeanYo wrote:
New article describing the current LENR-Rossi-eCat state of affairs. A very informative read for those of you wanting to 'catch-up' on the situation:

http://www.examiner.com/paranormal-in-st-louis/andrea-rossi-sinner-or-saint



Wow that was quite the read even though I have no background in this area...

The most interesting part of this entire story was NASA's chief scientist Dennis Bushnell clearly attaching his name to support the possibilities of LENR, which from I'm reading so far is nothing but a voodoo science at worst, suppressed science at best.

Makes me wonder when a guy that influential says something that vague about an extremely controversial technology, is he trying to say something he otherwise can't fully explain due to his prominent position?
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
January 23 2012 19:45 GMT
#633
On January 24 2012 04:11 gorbonic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 03:53 Southlight wrote:
On January 24 2012 03:44 gorbonic wrote:
Having accomplished this, rather than publishing his results in peer reviewed scientific journals, he chose to treat it as intellectual property and pursue a commercial venture to develop, market, and distribute an actual product to the world. Even his harshest critics would have to admit that he is entirely in his right to do so.

Hrmm...No, I think his harshest critics would probably have good reason to demand that he publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. In fact, I think his most forgiving critics would expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. Even his most sympathetic supporters should expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal.


As the article mentions: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=250561

It's just not how things work in the real world if you want to make financial gains. Scientific journals are also rather notorious among frontier fields (especially in computer science fields) for being incredibly stubborn and often "missing the boat" on amazing discoveries. You can find many stories of incredible discoveries and inventions that had to go through dozens of journals before finally being published by some minor outlet. And at this point there is absolutely zero financial gain in publishing his findings in a journal. Zilch.

I would think that in fields involving danger, expense, and inherent novelty and skepticism (e.g., pharmaceuticals, new forms of energy production), scientific credibility would invite more venture capital.


The point is that he doesn't want or need venture capital. He's going directly into manufacturing, having invested his own personal wealth into R&D. At this point there is absolutely no need for scientific review. If the product works, people will buy it, and scientific review can go take a dump on itself. If the product doesn't work, people won't buy it, and scientific review can still go take a dump on itself. It literally no longer matters. Most of the vexation stems from the scientific community feeling shafted for being completely passed over. If anything, people should be clamoring for the filing of a patent, which would diffuse a lot of the scientific secrets. As I mentioned in my blog entry about this that I linked though, there is still no financial incentive to do this yet, as it (as the article points out) invites attempts to loophole the patent process by big corporation and also invites clones, international copyright breaking (ie. copyright in the US has very little power over copyright in China), et cetera et cetera, as opposed to the sort of monopoly he would currently own.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11892 Posts
January 23 2012 19:45 GMT
#634
On January 24 2012 04:11 gorbonic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 03:53 Southlight wrote:
On January 24 2012 03:44 gorbonic wrote:
Having accomplished this, rather than publishing his results in peer reviewed scientific journals, he chose to treat it as intellectual property and pursue a commercial venture to develop, market, and distribute an actual product to the world. Even his harshest critics would have to admit that he is entirely in his right to do so.

Hrmm...No, I think his harshest critics would probably have good reason to demand that he publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. In fact, I think his most forgiving critics would expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. Even his most sympathetic supporters should expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal.


As the article mentions: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=250561

It's just not how things work in the real world if you want to make financial gains. Scientific journals are also rather notorious among frontier fields (especially in computer science fields) for being incredibly stubborn and often "missing the boat" on amazing discoveries. You can find many stories of incredible discoveries and inventions that had to go through dozens of journals before finally being published by some minor outlet. And at this point there is absolutely zero financial gain in publishing his findings in a journal. Zilch.

I would think that in fields involving danger, expense, and inherent novelty and skepticism (e.g., pharmaceuticals, new forms of energy production), scientific credibility would invite more venture capital.


If you have enough venture capital to build one set that works well over time you will be rolling in money at much better terms than any he could get at this current point in time. As far as I can recall they are already building one, thus he doesn't need more money at this time. When it is proven he probably doesn't even need venture capital, he can just take payment in advance for the first few sets and finance himself.
GeyzeR
Profile Joined November 2010
250 Posts
January 23 2012 20:00 GMT
#635
On January 24 2012 03:23 JonnyBNoHo wrote:

Fine. This causes the dollar to lose value relative to other currencies. But so what? The end result would be that we'd have an easier time exporting our products to other countries which would strengthen our economy. The downside would be more inflation (imports more expensive). This would cause the Fed to raise interest rates which would then increase the demand for USD.


The US is a country of financial capitalism, not industrial, like it was in the past. Most of your products cannot compete with even cheaper China and likes countries after cheap energy technology discovery.
If USD would be needed only to buy American products, the US could not just print money to cover its trade deficit and debts. Now the US lives above its means on expenses of the rest of the world. And I do not think that the rest of the world is happy about that.

----------

Would this new technology help the US or China more? That's debatable but has that stopped any other technological improvement from happening? In just the last few years horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing has revolutionized the natural gas markets and caused the price of natural gas to fall tremendously and to the benefit of millions of households.


There is nothing to debate. American main products are not so energy hungry like Chinese. If you consider just industry, the most energy dependent sector, it is both 3.2-3.3 trillions USD, but consider the difference in prices. China has as many times bigger industry as Chinese product cheaper than American one.
If you give China cheap energy, it will flood the world with very cheap products even to higher degree than now. Instead the US sells financial products and services that do not benefit that much from cheap energy.
This technological improvement has nothing to do with an eventual technology that will permit to satisfy a country's need for energy without USD at all.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
January 23 2012 20:01 GMT
#636
On January 24 2012 04:45 Southlight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 04:11 gorbonic wrote:
On January 24 2012 03:53 Southlight wrote:
On January 24 2012 03:44 gorbonic wrote:
Having accomplished this, rather than publishing his results in peer reviewed scientific journals, he chose to treat it as intellectual property and pursue a commercial venture to develop, market, and distribute an actual product to the world. Even his harshest critics would have to admit that he is entirely in his right to do so.

Hrmm...No, I think his harshest critics would probably have good reason to demand that he publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. In fact, I think his most forgiving critics would expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. Even his most sympathetic supporters should expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal.


As the article mentions: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=250561

It's just not how things work in the real world if you want to make financial gains. Scientific journals are also rather notorious among frontier fields (especially in computer science fields) for being incredibly stubborn and often "missing the boat" on amazing discoveries. You can find many stories of incredible discoveries and inventions that had to go through dozens of journals before finally being published by some minor outlet. And at this point there is absolutely zero financial gain in publishing his findings in a journal. Zilch.

I would think that in fields involving danger, expense, and inherent novelty and skepticism (e.g., pharmaceuticals, new forms of energy production), scientific credibility would invite more venture capital.


The point is that he doesn't want or need venture capital. He's going directly into manufacturing, having invested his own personal wealth into R&D. At this point there is absolutely no need for scientific review. If the product works, people will buy it, and scientific review can go take a dump on itself. If the product doesn't work, people won't buy it, and scientific review can still go take a dump on itself. It literally no longer matters. Most of the vexation stems from the scientific community feeling shafted for being completely passed over. If anything, people should be clamoring for the filing of a patent, which would diffuse a lot of the scientific secrets. As I mentioned in my blog entry about this that I linked though, there is still no financial incentive to do this yet, as it (as the article points out) invites attempts to loophole the patent process by big corporation and also invites clones, international copyright breaking (ie. copyright in the US has very little power over copyright in China), et cetera et cetera, as opposed to the sort of monopoly he would currently own.


It's not easy to self-finance a major invention like this.

Forbes magazine thinks his actions are strange from a business standpoint.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2011/10/30/believing-in-cold-fusion-and-the-e-cat/

"Quite inexplicably, Rossi has apparently choosen to go it alone and, it has been reported, has even sold his home to finance development of the E-Cat! This makes no sense. Rossi could have approached Bill Gates or Paul Allen or Warren Buffett or any of thousands of wealthy individuals and institutions and if the device could be proven to work, he would have been given a blank check! Should that not have been enough all he’d have to do is license the system at, say, $1 per year per kilowatt he’d become the richest person ever within a few years."
Traeon
Profile Joined July 2010
Austria366 Posts
January 23 2012 20:08 GMT
#637
Defkalion GT has announced independent testing for their Hyperion reactor in the next few months: http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/2012-01-23_Independent_Testing_on_Hyperion_Reactors.pdf

Who is Defkalion? A greek company, formerly contracted by Rossi to produce e-cats. After the contract was terminated by for reasons that are not entirely clear, Defkalion announced they would make their own Ni-H LENR reactor, the Hyperion.
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
January 23 2012 20:17 GMT
#638
On January 24 2012 05:01 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 04:45 Southlight wrote:
On January 24 2012 04:11 gorbonic wrote:
On January 24 2012 03:53 Southlight wrote:
On January 24 2012 03:44 gorbonic wrote:
Having accomplished this, rather than publishing his results in peer reviewed scientific journals, he chose to treat it as intellectual property and pursue a commercial venture to develop, market, and distribute an actual product to the world. Even his harshest critics would have to admit that he is entirely in his right to do so.

Hrmm...No, I think his harshest critics would probably have good reason to demand that he publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. In fact, I think his most forgiving critics would expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal. Even his most sympathetic supporters should expect him to publish his results in a peer reviewed scientific journal.


As the article mentions: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=250561

It's just not how things work in the real world if you want to make financial gains. Scientific journals are also rather notorious among frontier fields (especially in computer science fields) for being incredibly stubborn and often "missing the boat" on amazing discoveries. You can find many stories of incredible discoveries and inventions that had to go through dozens of journals before finally being published by some minor outlet. And at this point there is absolutely zero financial gain in publishing his findings in a journal. Zilch.

I would think that in fields involving danger, expense, and inherent novelty and skepticism (e.g., pharmaceuticals, new forms of energy production), scientific credibility would invite more venture capital.


The point is that he doesn't want or need venture capital. He's going directly into manufacturing, having invested his own personal wealth into R&D. At this point there is absolutely no need for scientific review. If the product works, people will buy it, and scientific review can go take a dump on itself. If the product doesn't work, people won't buy it, and scientific review can still go take a dump on itself. It literally no longer matters. Most of the vexation stems from the scientific community feeling shafted for being completely passed over. If anything, people should be clamoring for the filing of a patent, which would diffuse a lot of the scientific secrets. As I mentioned in my blog entry about this that I linked though, there is still no financial incentive to do this yet, as it (as the article points out) invites attempts to loophole the patent process by big corporation and also invites clones, international copyright breaking (ie. copyright in the US has very little power over copyright in China), et cetera et cetera, as opposed to the sort of monopoly he would currently own.


It's not easy to self-finance a major invention like this.

Forbes magazine thinks his actions are strange from a business standpoint.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2011/10/30/believing-in-cold-fusion-and-the-e-cat/

"Quite inexplicably, Rossi has apparently choosen to go it alone and, it has been reported, has even sold his home to finance development of the E-Cat! This makes no sense. Rossi could have approached Bill Gates or Paul Allen or Warren Buffett or any of thousands of wealthy individuals and institutions and if the device could be proven to work, he would have been given a blank check! Should that not have been enough all he’d have to do is license the system at, say, $1 per year per kilowatt he’d become the richest person ever within a few years."


Receiving investors cuts into your profit, generally by a block %. That's how investors make money back. It's also not that easy to receive investment for a concept - it's easy to say all this in retrospect with how it stands, but even two years ago if an article were to be published, "Rossi claims to have concept for working 'cold fusion' e-cat, wants millions of dollars in investment" you'd REALLY be looking at scam calls.

As ElMeanYo's article points out, calling it a fraud because it's "strange" doesn't make much sense either anyways, given that if it's a fraud, he sold his home... for what? If anything it implies immense confidence in his finding and a desire to prevent having to pay % percent royalty. I'm not saying that his finding is real (I don't understand the science and don't care to, so I'll find out when it works or not), but a lot of the criticism regarding his lack of disclosure just bothers me as being uninformed.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
January 23 2012 20:24 GMT
#639
On January 24 2012 05:00 GeyzeR wrote:


The US is a country of financial capitalism, not industrial, like it was in the past. Most of your products cannot compete with even cheaper China and likes countries after cheap energy technology discovery.
If USD would be needed only to buy American products, the US could not just print money to cover its trade deficit and debts. Now the US lives above its means on expenses of the rest of the world. And I do not think that the rest of the world is happy about that.



We're still the world's second largest manufacturer. Our products would be in higher demand if we didn't have to compete with the artificially depressed currencies of many Asian countries. Our services are highly demanded worldwide (we export more services than we import) and would be purchased more if we had a cheaper currency.

You have it backwards. The world economy lives high off the hog of the American consumer. Imports are a negative and exports are a positive. Many countries, especially Asian ones, have built their economies on exporting to the US since the "Asian Crisis" in the 90's.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_crisis#Consequences
'However, interestingly enough, such nations as Brazil, Russia, and India as well as most of East Asia began copying the Japanese model of weakening their currencies, restructuring their economies so as to create a current account surplus to build large foreign currency reserves. This has led to an ever increasing funding for US treasury bonds, allowing or aiding housing (in 2001–2005) and stock asset bubbles (in 1996–2000) to develop in the United States.'

There is nothing to debate. American main products are not so energy hungry like Chinese. If you consider just industry, the most energy dependent sector, it is both 3.2-3.3 trillions USD, but consider the difference in prices. China has as many times bigger industry as Chinese product cheaper than American one.
If you give China cheap energy, it will flood the world with very cheap products even to higher degree than now. Instead the US sells financial products and services that do not benefit that much from cheap energy.
This technological improvement has nothing to do with an eventual technology that will permit to satisfy a country's need for energy without USD at all.


China's main competitive advantage is cheap labor. In the US we rely more on machines to manufacture. Cheaper energy will benefit the US by making our machines cheaper to run.
caradoc
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada3022 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-23 20:35:57
January 23 2012 20:34 GMT
#640
Since a lot of hype has been generated around the NASA video, I think it's probably appropriate to post the actual blog post of the scientist in the video itself, explaining the context of the video. (http://joe.zawodny.com/index.php/2012/01/14/technology-gateway-video/)

Some key points he makes:


a non-technical video on a patent application for a new technology was made public on a NASA website this past week. It is part of the overall innovation disclosure process. It is just one of the ways NASA communicates with the public about what we do. As mandated by Executive Order, every civil servant is required to disclose an innovation or invention which may be a of value/benefit



it is my professional opinion that the production of excess energy has been demonstrated when the results of the last 20+ years of experimentation are evaluated. There has been a lot of work done in the past 20+ years. When considered in aggregate I believe excess power has been demonstrated. I did not say, reliable, useful, commercially viable, or controllable. If any of those other terms were applicable I would have used them instead. If anything, it is the lack of a single clear demonstration of reliable, useful, and controllable production of excess power that has held LENR research back



There have been many attempts to twist the release of this video into NASA’s support for LENR or as proof that Rossi’s e-cat really works...In my scientific opinion, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I find a distinct absence of the latter. While I personally find sufficient demonstration that LENR effects warrant further investigation, I remain skeptical. Furthermore, I am unaware of any clear and convincing demonstrations of any viable commercial device producing useful amounts of net energy.


+ Show Spoiler +

Technology Gateway Video
Filed under: Current Events, Energy, Physics, Technology, The Future — JMZ @ 1916

First the disclaimers: While I do work for NASA, I do not speak for them. They employ me for my professional capabilities and on occasion my professional opinion. Nothing I say should ever be construed as anything other than my personal opinion. As a NASA employee I am allowed and often times encouraged to say what I think. This and the exceptional people I get to work with every day are what make NASA great and a great place to work.

I wish to respond to a number of things that have popped up on the web in the past few days and weeks. I do this here because I can control the message. Every issue has at least two sides but, only the writer gets to decide how to present them. I do not plan to make discussion of my work on this site a habit and I do not plan to allow any comments to this post. It is unlikely that any email on this topic sent to me will generate a reply. Undoubtedly, bits and pieces of this will be taken out of context and used to support claims and opinions which I myself do not hold. Such is the nature of the Wild West Web (WWW). All I can ever hope to do is to maintain the original content and context. In my opinion, reputable sites will link back to this original content and others will not.

As you have likely already noted, a non-technical video on a patent application for a new technology was made public on a NASA website this past week. It is part of the overall innovation disclosure process. It is just one of the ways NASA communicates with the public about what we do. As mandated by Executive Order, every civil servant is required to disclose an innovation or invention which may be a of value/benefit. Google “NASA technology reporting” if you wish to read the executive order and how NASA has implemented it. If a patent application is filed, a video may be produced to inform the general public of the nature of the invention or innovation. It may be a non-technical piece that communicates what this invention is about and why people might care. Such is the case of the recent video on Surface Plasmon Polaritons.

As for what people are trying to read into this video, specifically my use of the word “demonstrated”, it is my professional opinion that the production of excess energy has been demonstrated when the results of the last 20+ years of experimentation are evaluated. There has been a lot of work done in the past 20+ years. When considered in aggregate I believe excess power has been demonstrated. I did not say, reliable, useful, commercially viable, or controllable. If any of those other terms were applicable I would have used them instead. If anything, it is the lack of a single clear demonstration of reliable, useful, and controllable production of excess power that has held LENR research back. As a non-technical piece aimed at the general public, my limited media training has taught me that less information/detail is generally better than more. I did not produce or direct the video. While I saw the video before it was released, I did not learn of it’s release until the email started pouring in Thursday morning.

There have been many attempts to twist the release of this video into NASA’s support for LENR or as proof that Rossi’s e-cat really works. Many extraordinary claims have been made in 2010. In my scientific opinion, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I find a distinct absence of the latter. So let me be very clear here. While I personally find sufficient demonstration that LENR effects warrant further investigation, I remain skeptical. Furthermore, I am unaware of any clear and convincing demonstrations of any viable commercial device producing useful amounts of net energy.

So what does extraordinary evidence look like? As a trained scientist, I have been taught the historical standards for acceptance of experimental results or theories. Experiments and theories go hand-in-hand in what is known as the scientific method. Both must be independently tested, replicated, or verified. As a minimum, experimental results must be replicated by an objective and independent party. The nature of the test or replication needs to adhere to the spirit of the original experiment but, should be under the full design, implementation, and control of the independent tester. So, if a device is claimed to be capable of producing excess heat by nature of its operation (i.e., the consumption of fuel via a nuclear process), it must be operated properly. The way power input and power output are measured should be left up to the independent tester. This is standard scientific practice. What would take this to the next level (extraordinary evidence) would be to have the test be an open public test. The nature of the test and specific approach to executing the test should be made public. The conduct of the test should be open to additional 3rd party experts. And finally, the data should be publicly released. Further peer review of all aspects of the independent test is a must. Community consensus is the ultimate goal. Every attempted demonstration of a LENR device that I am aware of has failed to meet one or more of these criteria.

There is one last point I wish to cover. It has been claimed that I no longer give proper credit to Widom and Larsen for their theory. I disagree with that opinion. When I talk to my family, friends, or neighbors about some of my work. I do not cite Widom-Larsen Theory or any of their papers. There would be little point in doing so. Who the intended audience is must determine what you say and how you present the information. If a technically competent person comes across a non-technical presentation they should recognize it as such. To expect that every form of communication is exactly what you need or want it to be is unrealistic. The fact that Widom-Larsen Theory (WLT) was not explicitly mentioned in the video fit the intended audience. It is not an indication that I no longer believe WLT is likely the correct explanation behind LENR. I have been consistent in my professional briefings to indicate that I find WLT is likely correct. It appears in every briefing where I have had the time to include it and where the briefing was intended to be technical. I’ll point to my last public technical briefing at NASA GRC as evidence of this. I will continue to do so until such time that WLT has been demonstrated to be flawed. Quite frankly I am baffled that WLT is not receiving more wide spread attention. Applications of the theory appear to go far beyond LENR. The fact that I did not mention WLT in the Aviation Week article was a mistake on my part. It was a technical article to a technical audience. I communicated my regrets on that omission directly to Lewis Larsen and am quite willing to admit that error publicly – mea culpa.
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