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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect! |
On April 19 2012 18:02 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 17:37 frontliner2 wrote:On April 19 2012 17:21 Mentalizor wrote:On April 19 2012 17:19 TOCHMY wrote:
Oh god..... Breivik mentioned he practiced "sight systems" for guns through playing CoD MW... Shitstorm INC from the numbnuts who thinks games are harmful.... He said that he played WoW 16hours/day for a year. I don't play WoW anymore, but I really hope people wont blame a game. If WoW actually did turn people into killers we'd have 12-20 million potential killers. Now you are scaring me  It's so appalling what this man has done, MURDERING dozens of unarmed civilians. I think this man is the product of multiculturalism and putting europeans 2nd place compared to immigrants. I'm not justifying him by any means, I strongly condemn but I understand that all these feelings of 'Europe going down the shitter' which I somewhat share contribute to radicalizing 'angry young white men'. Which is bad. Multiculturalsim is a failure. Not saying that we should get rid of minorities but trying to say that there have been too many immigrants and the goverments won't allow people to speak out their concerns regarding (muslim) immigrants. We have millions of them in Europe now and they DO cause troubles and crime. This feeds 'white frustration' and that is dangerous. Millions of europeans are fed up with the multiculturalism being shoved down their throats for decades by left wing governmetns and the immigrants get a lot of benefits and perks while the working european man get's less and less buying power year after year. Also crime rates ARE a problem. Plus Islam is trying to have dominion everywhere it settles, if we ignore these problems I fear more of these problems will arise and something similarly horrible will happen. be it Islamic of nationalist terrorism. Quite frankly I'm sure a lot of Europeans are 100% fed up with Islam. They come here and it looks like they are abusing our tax money, freedom and social structures. Besides that we've had Madrid & London bombings targeting as many infidels as possible. Murdering our politicians and critical thinkers. Besides that we see Islamists/Salafists parading our streets demanding Sharia dominion and the beheading of our right wings politicians and their followers. this pisses us off tremendously and even I am fed up with it. So sad that the 'good people' suffer under the bad. sorry my english is a bit crappy, just trying to give some insight in europe's problems regarding immigration and Islam in particular. I never hear of frustration towards, Chinese, Jews, Black Africans (christians) etc. We can't deny allowing millions of arabs into Europe doesn't have it's price. Sorry if I piss people off but this is how I view the situation objectively. People are fed up. I just hope that the immigrants now in Europe find the strenght to adapt to our countries and at least accept and respect democracy and our culture as dominant. It's really sad.. Let's hope things change for the better in Europe. Imho the goverments need to be really strict to immigrants. they need to integrate into society or seek their luck elsewhere. "We can't deny allowing millions of arabs into Europe doesn't have it's price. Sorry if I piss people off but this is how I view the situation objectively. People are fed u" We can deny it because it's 100% false. The problem are extremists (Like Breivik or catholics extremists, muslim extremists, or any shit like that based on hate), but 99% of muslims (in France at least) are...just like me and you ! I mean, i live with them, they are in my office at work, in the subway in Paris, i buy my food in the same place, i speak, laugh, sometimes drink beers with them, I know them ! They are not the reason of Europe's problems. Not at all. And you don't piss me off. It's sad, but you have a pretty standard biased point of view with a lack of knowledge, i'm used to it.
don't put me in that corner please 
I'm trying to point out that if there was less immigration it would be less likely that terrorists such as Madrid bombings and London bombings would have been less probably. There would be less problems.
I agree most muslims I've met in my life are nice people who cause no trouble at all, I agree with you 100%.
Just trying to discuss this sentiment of immigration = problems in the countries where they settle.
And like I said there is a lot of crime and also against our women, lot's of rape and robberies by immigrants. It's sad really and yes that too feeds nationalists.
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On April 19 2012 17:37 frontliner2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 17:21 Mentalizor wrote:On April 19 2012 17:19 TOCHMY wrote:
Oh god..... Breivik mentioned he practiced "sight systems" for guns through playing CoD MW... Shitstorm INC from the numbnuts who thinks games are harmful.... He said that he played WoW 16hours/day for a year. I don't play WoW anymore, but I really hope people wont blame a game. If WoW actually did turn people into killers we'd have 12-20 million potential killers. Now you are scaring me It's so appalling what this man has done, MURDERING dozens of unarmed civilians. I think this man is the product of multiculturalism and putting europeans 2nd place compared to immigrants. I'm not justifying him by any means, I strongly condemn but I understand that all these feelings of 'Europe going down the shitter' which I somewhat share contribute to radicalizing 'angry young white men'. Which is bad. Multiculturalsim is a failure. Not saying that we should get rid of minorities but trying to say that there have been too many immigrants and the goverments won't allow people to speak out their concerns regarding (muslim) immigrants. We have millions of them in Europe now and they DO cause troubles and crime. This feeds 'white frustration' and that is dangerous. Millions of europeans are fed up with the multiculturalism being shoved down their throats for decades by left wing governmetns and the immigrants get a lot of benefits and perks while the working european man get's less and less buying power year after year. Also crime rates ARE a problem. Plus Islam is trying to have dominion everywhere it settles, if we ignore these problems I fear more of these problems will arise and something similarly horrible will happen. be it Islamic of nationalist terrorism. Quite frankly I'm sure a lot of Europeans are 100% fed up with Islam. They come here and it looks like they are abusing our tax money, freedom and social structures. Besides that we've had Madrid & London bombings targeting as many infidels as possible. Murdering our politicians and critical thinkers. Besides that we see Islamists/Salafists parading our streets demanding Sharia dominion and the beheading of our right wings politicians and their followers. this pisses us off tremendously and even I am fed up with it. So sad that the 'good people' suffer under the bad. sorry my english is a bit crappy, just trying to give some insight in europe's problems regarding immigration and Islam in particular. I never hear of frustration towards, Chinese, Jews, Black Africans (christians) etc. We can't deny allowing millions of arabs into Europe doesn't have it's price. Sorry if I piss people off but this is how I view the situation objectively. People are fed up. I just hope that the immigrants now in Europe find the strenght to adapt to our countries and at least accept and respect democracy and our culture as dominant. It's really sad.. Let's hope things change for the better in Europe. Imho the goverments need to be really strict to immigrants. they need to integrate into society or seek their luck elsewhere.
Your so wrong it hurts ...
Breivik is a product of people like you spewing blind hate/hostility against immigrants instead of searching the real underlying problems. Immigration has it's problems, but the immigrants themselves aren't it... You can't do that much about tImmigration itself anyway... Well you could build a giant wall à la East/West-Germany around Europe or decide to become really poor...
You even use some true classic lines of right wing "thinking (lol)"
1: "I'm no racist or against minorities, BUT they are the problem!!!"... Yeah.. Right... I honestly can't see how this is racist when your "minority" is the second(?) largest religious group on the planet....
2: "It's the fucking leftist that ruled my country for too long that let all of them come here."... It was right wing economists and essentially the whole economy/industry that wanted/needed a cheap labour force... The left had not much to do with this.. Well, the left actually was against treating immigrants like slaves... How dare they, fucking hippies.
3. " They parade for Sharia law.....". We also see Nazis and every other colour of Nutjobs from the extreme left, to the right, to the greens to pure weirdo parading down streets asking for all kind of stuff... ^
It's called free speech and one of the main peaks "the west" has over most other places in the world.
But i get it, it's way easyer to just blame those people with the funny skin colour and the ridiculous religion...
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On April 19 2012 18:38 TOCHMY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 18:34 frontliner2 wrote:
Btw, I was giving a description of how I feel the average european is feeling regarding immigration, and Islam in particular.
How can you feel what the avarage european feel? Have you conducted a study to prove this? I don't feel the way you feel the avarage european feel. Does that not make me an avarage european?
It's what I feel about how the majority feels. I talk to people as well and Islam is getting more and more flak with their absolute demand for dominion and respect. Why do people always go crazy trying to defend Islam.
Imho it's flawed like the nazi's were flawed. Let me draw some similarities
Ubermensch Untermensch principle. Infidels are Dhimmi/kuffar and have no rights compared to muslims.
One Reich/Empire principle - all the world must be forcibly united under Sharia - The Kalifa
Thier hatred towards anything non-Islamic has shown it's face many many times, through violence and those demonstrations in London after the bombings for example. look at the massacres of non-muslims happening in Egypt, Sudan etc. It's Ugly!
So people in Europe (and the rest of the world) are becoming more and more familiar with Islam and not in a nice way.
this feeds nationalism and people like Breivik are the product of these events, sadly. I hope they give him life though. Again, i'm not justifying his actions, I'm really shocked what happened and feel very sad for every life lost and the families left behind. I'm just stating that Breivik's are born out of frustration and fear that their people and culture will be lost in the process.
This story has no winners..
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On April 19 2012 18:38 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 17:37 frontliner2 wrote:On April 19 2012 17:21 Mentalizor wrote:On April 19 2012 17:19 TOCHMY wrote:
Oh god..... Breivik mentioned he practiced "sight systems" for guns through playing CoD MW... Shitstorm INC from the numbnuts who thinks games are harmful.... He said that he played WoW 16hours/day for a year. I don't play WoW anymore, but I really hope people wont blame a game. If WoW actually did turn people into killers we'd have 12-20 million potential killers. Now you are scaring me It's so appalling what this man has done, MURDERING dozens of unarmed civilians. I think this man is the product of multiculturalism and putting europeans 2nd place compared to immigrants. I'm not justifying him by any means, I strongly condemn but I understand that all these feelings of 'Europe going down the shitter' which I somewhat share contribute to radicalizing 'angry young white men'. Which is bad. Multiculturalsim is a failure. Not saying that we should get rid of minorities but trying to say that there have been too many immigrants and the goverments won't allow people to speak out their concerns regarding (muslim) immigrants. We have millions of them in Europe now and they DO cause troubles and crime. This feeds 'white frustration' and that is dangerous. Millions of europeans are fed up with the multiculturalism being shoved down their throats for decades by left wing governmetns and the immigrants get a lot of benefits and perks while the working european man get's less and less buying power year after year. Also crime rates ARE a problem. Plus Islam is trying to have dominion everywhere it settles, if we ignore these problems I fear more of these problems will arise and something similarly horrible will happen. be it Islamic of nationalist terrorism. Quite frankly I'm sure a lot of Europeans are 100% fed up with Islam. They come here and it looks like they are abusing our tax money, freedom and social structures. Besides that we've had Madrid & London bombings targeting as many infidels as possible. Murdering our politicians and critical thinkers. Besides that we see Islamists/Salafists parading our streets demanding Sharia dominion and the beheading of our right wings politicians and their followers. this pisses us off tremendously and even I am fed up with it. So sad that the 'good people' suffer under the bad. sorry my english is a bit crappy, just trying to give some insight in europe's problems regarding immigration and Islam in particular. I never hear of frustration towards, Chinese, Jews, Black Africans (christians) etc. We can't deny allowing millions of arabs into Europe doesn't have it's price. Sorry if I piss people off but this is how I view the situation objectively. People are fed up. I just hope that the immigrants now in Europe find the strenght to adapt to our countries and at least accept and respect democracy and our culture as dominant. It's really sad.. Let's hope things change for the better in Europe. Imho the goverments need to be really strict to immigrants. they need to integrate into society or seek their luck elsewhere. Your so wrong it hurts ... Breivik is a product of people like you spewing blind hate/hostility against immigrants instead of searching the real underlying problems. Immigration has it's problems, but the immigrants themselves aren't it... You can't do that much about this anyway... Well you could build a giant wall à la East/West-Germany around Europe... You even use some true classic lines of right wing "thinking (lol)" 1: "I'm no racist or against minorities, BUT they are the problem!!!"... Yeah.. Right... I honestly can't see how this is racist when your "minority" is the second(?) largest religious group on the planet.... 2: "It's the fucking leftist that ruled my country for too long that let all of them come here."... It was right wing economists and essentially thew hole economy/industry that wanted/needed a cheap labour force... The left had not much to do with this.. Well, the left actually was against treating immigrants like slaves... How dare they, fucking hippies. 3. " They parade for Sharia law.....". We also see Nazis and every other colour of Nutjobs from the extreme left, to the right, to the greens to pure weirdo parading down streets asking for all kind of stuff... ^ It's called free speech and one of the main peaks "the west" has over most other places in the world. But i get it, it's way easyer to just blame those people with the funny skin colour and the ridiculous religion...
Wait a minute, I created Breivik? lol I'm just starting a discussion and trying to point out thanks for making me the mastermind behind his killings, thanks bro.
I actually instigate killing people and I use people like Breivik as my tool?
Dude you're messed up. Typical left wing retoric... you critisize a religion or minority? = Fascist Murderer.
please don't do that.
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On April 19 2012 18:49 frontliner2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 18:38 TOCHMY wrote:On April 19 2012 18:34 frontliner2 wrote:
Btw, I was giving a description of how I feel the average european is feeling regarding immigration, and Islam in particular.
How can you feel what the avarage european feel? Have you conducted a study to prove this? I don't feel the way you feel the avarage european feel. Does that not make me an avarage european? It's what I feel about how the majority feels. I talk to people as well and Islam is getting more and more flak with their absolute demand for dominion and respect. Why do people always go crazy trying to defend Islam. Imho it's flawed like the nazi's were flawed. Let me draw some similarities Ubermensch Untermensch principle. Infidels are Dhimmi/kuffar and have no rights compared to muslims. One Reich/Empire principle - all the world must be forcibly united under Sharia - The Kalifa Thier hatred towards anything non-Islamic has shown it's face many many times, through violence and those demonstrations in London after the bombings for example. look at the massacres of non-muslims happening in Egypt, Sudan etc. It's Ugly! So people in Europe (and the rest of the world) are becoming more and more familiar with Islam and not in a nice way. this feeds nationalism and people like Breivik are the product of these events, sadly. I hope they give him life though. Again, i'm not justifying his actions, I'm really shocked what happened and feel very sad for every life lost and the families left behind. I'm just stating that Breivik's are born out of frustration and fear that their people and culture will be lost in the process. This story has no winners..
I can kind of see what you mean. Although i don't like religion so i might be exagerating a bit, i find the problem to be that many in the religion seems to have a set standard for how a society should be governed. And that is a problem when they are trying to "save" us from what western society think is right.
Though i also think that the reason that people are getting the view on islam that you presents are because those who are angry and promote sharia are those who get airtime on tv. The majority who are moderate doesn't really get any attention
I would say here that ignorance is what feeds people like breivik and other people who are "fed up" with muslims influence. They are simply wrong in a lot of what they say, and we can see that in the trial
Although you can't deny that breivik's views are grossly in the right side.
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On April 19 2012 18:16 Teoman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 21:28 r.Evo wrote:
Dear people who want to see this guy rot in hell, get executed or raped for the next 50 years straight,
please show some damn respect to a legal and social system that in all likelyhood produces less and resocializes more criminals than the ones in your own country. Contrary to most other countries on this planet, these guys must be doing something right. Stop smacking them for something you don't understand, but what clearly works.
</3
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Dear Norwegians,
a part of me always enjoyed being at the front when events like this happen. I usually want to soak up as much information about tragic events like these in the shortest amount of possible time. In fact, I still remember sleeping like 3 hours within 3 days when this started, just to keep people posted and up to date here, add more information and pictures and keep false rumors from spreading.
I can't think of any event (neither with more nor less impact) where I have been more impressed by the people handling it. What you guys have pulled off from literally the first minutes all the way up to this trial is one of the most humane and inspiring things I've seen a country and it's people do in my life. This entire event, as tragic as it is, will be something I will tell my kids about in the future if I'm going to have any.
Thank you for setting an example for the rest of the world. It's not more, not less. Just that.
<3³ ¨ Thank, it warms my heart <3 Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 21:42 sc4k wrote:
I'm all for human rights, fair trial and all that good stuff, but why the hell do the lawyers representing breivik's victims' families shake his hand? The guy really doesn't seem to have been treated like a mass murderer of youngsters. I get that Norway wants to show how they bend over backwards to adhere to the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty', but it's not like this case will, from the viewpoint of any sane individual, produce a result that doesn't in some way show he is guilty. Well, what is the correct objective treatment of people who are not convicted, but are on trial for mass murder? Should he be brought in in shackles with people throwing tomatoes at him? The innocent until proven otherwise is a cornerstone in western legal systems. And making exceptions to that would be betraying what this system stands for. Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 10:46 ranshaked wrote:On April 19 2012 10:11 Tomba wrote:On April 19 2012 09:57 ranshaked wrote:
So you're going to let him live in a private cell with 3 meals a day? Doesn't sound all that bad to me. After a few years he will have tv and privlidges. He deserves none imo He already has acces to a computer with text software and also uses it to watch tv-series as far as i know..... So I don't know what youre talking about. Source (in norwegian tho) + Show Spoiler + Why are you giving murderers such an awesome place? Hell, those rooms are nicer than some apartments around here. Sounds more like a hotel than a prison. Prisons are meant to be hell not some place with Internet tv and a lavish life. Prisons in Norway arent meant to be hell, they are meant to be for rehabilitation, so that crime can be prevented in the future. If you believe otherwise, i suggest you check out some statistics to simply show you what works best at the moment. I can understand the sence of injustice you may feel over this though. Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 16:29 tonning wrote:
The Norwegian system is pretty silly tbh. I mean on the radio they said that a prison send their prisoners to a cinema like 1 time a month, that's kind of scary considering there are non-prisoners there aswell.
Tbh he deserves more than 21 year in prison with a TV, soft bed and luxeries, he even said himself that he deserves a death penalty and the norwegian system is broken.
Well, Is him getting his will what he really deserves? Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 17:29 Bleak wrote:On April 19 2012 16:15 iMAniaC wrote:On April 19 2012 10:46 ranshaked wrote:On April 19 2012 10:11 Tomba wrote:On April 19 2012 09:57 ranshaked wrote:
So you're going to let him live in a private cell with 3 meals a day? Doesn't sound all that bad to me. After a few years he will have tv and privlidges. He deserves none imo He already has acces to a computer with text software and also uses it to watch tv-series as far as i know..... So I don't know what youre talking about. Source (in norwegian tho) + Show Spoiler + Why are you giving murderers such an awesome place? Hell, those rooms are nicer than some apartments around here. Sounds more like a hotel than a prison. Prisons are meant to be hell not some place with Internet tv and a lavish life. No, prisons are meant for rehabilitation. If it takes a soft bed and a TV, so be it. You really believe a man who willingly killed 77 people is capable of actually being rehabilitated? Norway is a funny country it seems. If principles like all people are equal to the law, and all people are to be treated equally with equal chanses makes a country funny. Then i will be laughing along sir!
What does this have to do with the principle of equality? Obviously everyone is equal with regard to the law. But if your law can claim to rehabilitate a man who killed 77 people in cold blood, instead of admitting that he is a very dangerous maniac who is a huge threat to the society and he should be kept in prison as long as he lives, so that he has no chance to do anything harmful anymore, then yes it is nothing but funny. It is just being pussies, I see some people telling me that he will never be considered eligible for release (which he can ask authorities once a year) which is admitting that someone like him won't ever have that chance. So if the institution of life sentence is somewhat already there, then why not put it into the criminal code?
Again for the millionth time, putting someone in prison is not just about punishing him, it's about preventing him to commit further crimes and hurt the society again.
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frontliner2, get out of my country. People like you aren't welcome here. Go to Saudi Arabia or something. That's where you belong.
Doesn't matter if you were born here or not, you shouldn't be allowed to stay here. You are a danger to our culture and civilization. I rather take 100 illiterate muslims with kids that will be scooter-stealing teenagers than 1 of you. You are a true danger. They aren't.
If Hitler were put on trial in Norway, he would get like 30 years. Why should Breivik get more?
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On April 19 2012 19:22 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 18:16 Teoman wrote:On April 18 2012 21:28 r.Evo wrote:
Dear people who want to see this guy rot in hell, get executed or raped for the next 50 years straight,
please show some damn respect to a legal and social system that in all likelyhood produces less and resocializes more criminals than the ones in your own country. Contrary to most other countries on this planet, these guys must be doing something right. Stop smacking them for something you don't understand, but what clearly works.
</3
...
Dear Norwegians,
a part of me always enjoyed being at the front when events like this happen. I usually want to soak up as much information about tragic events like these in the shortest amount of possible time. In fact, I still remember sleeping like 3 hours within 3 days when this started, just to keep people posted and up to date here, add more information and pictures and keep false rumors from spreading.
I can't think of any event (neither with more nor less impact) where I have been more impressed by the people handling it. What you guys have pulled off from literally the first minutes all the way up to this trial is one of the most humane and inspiring things I've seen a country and it's people do in my life. This entire event, as tragic as it is, will be something I will tell my kids about in the future if I'm going to have any.
Thank you for setting an example for the rest of the world. It's not more, not less. Just that.
<3³ ¨ Thank, it warms my heart <3 On April 18 2012 21:42 sc4k wrote:
I'm all for human rights, fair trial and all that good stuff, but why the hell do the lawyers representing breivik's victims' families shake his hand? The guy really doesn't seem to have been treated like a mass murderer of youngsters. I get that Norway wants to show how they bend over backwards to adhere to the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty', but it's not like this case will, from the viewpoint of any sane individual, produce a result that doesn't in some way show he is guilty. Well, what is the correct objective treatment of people who are not convicted, but are on trial for mass murder? Should he be brought in in shackles with people throwing tomatoes at him? The innocent until proven otherwise is a cornerstone in western legal systems. And making exceptions to that would be betraying what this system stands for. On April 19 2012 10:46 ranshaked wrote:On April 19 2012 10:11 Tomba wrote:On April 19 2012 09:57 ranshaked wrote:
So you're going to let him live in a private cell with 3 meals a day? Doesn't sound all that bad to me. After a few years he will have tv and privlidges. He deserves none imo He already has acces to a computer with text software and also uses it to watch tv-series as far as i know..... So I don't know what youre talking about. Source (in norwegian tho) + Show Spoiler + Why are you giving murderers such an awesome place? Hell, those rooms are nicer than some apartments around here. Sounds more like a hotel than a prison. Prisons are meant to be hell not some place with Internet tv and a lavish life. Prisons in Norway arent meant to be hell, they are meant to be for rehabilitation, so that crime can be prevented in the future. If you believe otherwise, i suggest you check out some statistics to simply show you what works best at the moment. I can understand the sence of injustice you may feel over this though. On April 19 2012 16:29 tonning wrote:
The Norwegian system is pretty silly tbh. I mean on the radio they said that a prison send their prisoners to a cinema like 1 time a month, that's kind of scary considering there are non-prisoners there aswell.
Tbh he deserves more than 21 year in prison with a TV, soft bed and luxeries, he even said himself that he deserves a death penalty and the norwegian system is broken.
Well, Is him getting his will what he really deserves? On April 19 2012 17:29 Bleak wrote:On April 19 2012 16:15 iMAniaC wrote:On April 19 2012 10:46 ranshaked wrote:On April 19 2012 10:11 Tomba wrote:On April 19 2012 09:57 ranshaked wrote:
So you're going to let him live in a private cell with 3 meals a day? Doesn't sound all that bad to me. After a few years he will have tv and privlidges. He deserves none imo He already has acces to a computer with text software and also uses it to watch tv-series as far as i know..... So I don't know what youre talking about. Source (in norwegian tho) + Show Spoiler + Why are you giving murderers such an awesome place? Hell, those rooms are nicer than some apartments around here. Sounds more like a hotel than a prison. Prisons are meant to be hell not some place with Internet tv and a lavish life. No, prisons are meant for rehabilitation. If it takes a soft bed and a TV, so be it. You really believe a man who willingly killed 77 people is capable of actually being rehabilitated? Norway is a funny country it seems. If principles like all people are equal to the law, and all people are to be treated equally with equal chanses makes a country funny. Then i will be laughing along sir! What does this have to do with the principle of equality? Obviously everyone is equal with regard to the law. But if your law can claim to rehabilitate a man who killed 77 people in cold blood, instead of admitting that he is a very dangerous maniac who is a huge threat to the society and he should be kept in prison as long as he lives, so that he has no chance to do anything harmful anymore, then yes it is nothing but funny. It is just being pussies, I see some people telling me that he will never be considered eligible for release (which he can ask authorities once a year) which is admitting that someone like him won't ever have that chance. So if the institution of life sentence is somewhat already there, then why not put it into the criminal code? Again for the millionth time, putting someone in prison is not just about punishing him, it's about preventing him to commit further crimes and hurt the society again.
I would gladly be called a pussy by people like you as long as equality and long term thinking prevails over rage and peoples personal sense of vengeance.
EDIT: I think i misunderstood, sorry. The idea is that no matter how small the chanses are that he will be rehabilitated, the idea of equality is that he at least must have the chance, no matter what!
Even if people say that he will never be released, hell! even i think that. The principle is not life sentence, it's being able to make consideration that some people are to risky to repeat themselves to be let free. It is a big difference since one claims that someone actually "deserves" to sit in prison for life, while the other keeps him locked up because of the risk of repetition.
The punishment element is only there for detterence, so to further the goal of reduced crime. The way to prevent further crimes from criminals is rehabilitation, not punishment.
But these are basicly just opposing theories. I would still say that the way we go about it in Norway works well at least in western societys.
EDIT: long spaces under post :D
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On April 19 2012 19:22 Miyoshino wrote:
frontliner2, get out of my country. People like you aren't welcome here. Go to Saudi Arabia or something. That's where you belong.
Doesn't matter if you were born here or not, you shouldn't be allowed to stay here. You are a danger to our culture and civilization. I rather take 100 illiterate muslims with kids that will be scooter-stealing teenagers than 1 of you. You are a true danger. They aren't.
If Hitler were put on trial in Norway, he would get like 30 years. Why should Breivik get more?
Please elaborate?
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Reading the live update on swedish news sites, this man must be one of the sickest men of our time....
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On April 19 2012 20:34 TOCHMY wrote:
Reading the live update on swedish news sites, this man must be one of the sickest men of our time....
Yes, 77 deaths... 77 people died violently and horribly. Truly terrible!
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Yes, yes I know. How is this relevant to what I wrote?
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posted wrong link, edited link to a live update
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Was today really mostly about video games? If it was I would be deeply frustrated. I've already explained why I think it's bullshit, though. I just hope they don't have much more time dedicated to World of Warcraft and his Justicar title, lol.
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I don't think violent video games are causing people to become killers or sociopaths like Breivik or anything else, nor that they should take any blame, but there are plenty of signs that gaming may have affected him. Copying from another site:
-put on iPhone earbuds when he did his killing, as if he was playing a modern warfare scenario
-wore a disguise to lure in more victims, similar to disguise powers in certain pvp online games (this one's really flimsy)
-constructed cosplay uniforms for his fictional war
-constructed elaborate rules and details for a fictional organization that almost sounds like a bizarre real world mmo guild on closer inspection
-constructed medals for his fictional organization, that read similar to game achievements
-shouted bizarre things during his rampage that sound like the things one might hear over mic chat in an online game...from mockery to taunting to deception to cursing angrily when he feels he has been gotten the better of, etc.
-declared 'mission complete' to police when he called in to surrender, as if reaching the end goal of a wargame
-views the world in very simplistic 'invader vs defender' terms. Horde versus alliance. Insurgents versus NATO. Terrorists versus counter terrorists. Red versus Blu.
-puts a major emphasis on body count accumulation in his murder spree...like he's after some fps leaderboard score
Many of these are tenuous links at best, but added together I don't think it's out of the question that gaming may have been one of many things that impacted his delusional self-constructed world-view, and how he decided to carry out the massacre. Even if video games had no impact on his decision to carry out his plans, they could still have affected his exact plans and actions, in which case it would be of interest to court to question him about it.
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On April 19 2012 21:30 marttorn wrote:
Was today really mostly about video games? If it was I would be deeply frustrated. I've already explained why I think it's bullshit, though. I just hope they don't have much more time dedicated to World of Warcraft and his Justicar title, lol.
It wasn't all about video games. They asked him about it and he mentioned it and then they moved on. But non-gamers (u could almost call them anti-gamers?) always react whenever some crazy fella kills ppl and play video games
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On April 19 2012 21:35 Insurrectionist wrote:
I don't think violent video games are causing people to become killers or sociopaths like Breivik or anything else, nor that they should take any blame, but there are plenty of signs that gaming may have affected him. Copying from another site:
-put on iPhone earbuds when he did his killing, as if he was playing a modern warfare scenario
-wore a disguise to lure in more victims, similar to disguise powers in certain pvp online games (this one's really flimsy)
-constructed cosplay uniforms for his fictional war
-constructed elaborate rules and details for a fictional organization that almost sounds like a bizarre real world mmo guild on closer inspection
-constructed medals for his fictional organization, that read similar to game achievements
-shouted bizarre things during his rampage that sound like the things one might hear over mic chat in an online game...from mockery to taunting to deception to cursing angrily when he feels he has been gotten the better of, etc.
-declared 'mission complete' to police when he called in to surrender, as if reaching the end goal of a wargame
-views the world in very simplistic 'invader vs defender' terms. Horde versus alliance. Insurgents versus NATO. Terrorists versus counter terrorists. Red versus Blu.
-puts a major emphasis on body count accumulation in his murder spree...like he's after some fps leaderboard score
Many of these are tenuous links at best, but added together I don't think it's out of the question that gaming may have been one of many things that impacted his delusional self-constructed world-view, and how he decided to carry out the massacre. Even if video games had no impact on his decision to carry out his plans, they could still have affected his exact plans and actions, in which case it would be of interest to court to question him about it.
Really? How many of those are ACTUAL game related links?
Most of them are either common things which occur outside gaming, or they are common themes which can be found in any marginal nutjob group.
Every single one of those things can be explained in a way which attributes it to the general anti-Muslim/foreigner sentiment he held, without needing to look at videogames at all.
Even "Mission Accomplished" could be easily linked to the US war in Iraq where GWB said "Mission Accomplished" after the US had killed a load of Muslims (to put it in the sort of simple terms that AB probably viewed it in).
He killed people to say Muslims/foreigners are bad. Then says Mission Accomplished.
GWB killed bad muslims/foreigners and said Mission Accomplished.
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On April 19 2012 19:22 Miyoshino wrote:
frontliner2, get out of my country. People like you aren't welcome here. Go to Saudi Arabia or something. That's where you belong.
Doesn't matter if you were born here or not, you shouldn't be allowed to stay here. You are a danger to our culture and civilization. I rather take 100 illiterate muslims with kids that will be scooter-stealing teenagers than 1 of you. You are a true danger. They aren't.
If Hitler were put on trial in Norway, he would get like 30 years. Why should Breivik get more?
You think he's a true danger and thus he belongs in Saudi Arabia? You tried to win the PC gold medal and came so close, yet you just ended up stumbling over your own questionable world view.
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On April 20 2012 00:06 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 19:22 Miyoshino wrote:
frontliner2, get out of my country. People like you aren't welcome here. Go to Saudi Arabia or something. That's where you belong.
Doesn't matter if you were born here or not, you shouldn't be allowed to stay here. You are a danger to our culture and civilization. I rather take 100 illiterate muslims with kids that will be scooter-stealing teenagers than 1 of you. You are a true danger. They aren't.
If Hitler were put on trial in Norway, he would get like 30 years. Why should Breivik get more? You think he's a true danger and thus he belongs in Saudi Arabia? You tried to win the PC gold medal and came so close, yet you just ended up stumbling over your own questionable world view.
I really don't understand his post too... and the hilter vs breivik comparison makes no sense whatsoever. I never discussed the sentence he should get, nor did I say Hitler should get 30 years. Also I never said Breivik should get more than 30 years.
Come to mention it. I think Breivik should get more than 30 years, how about a life sentence?
But that guy was just trolling.
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EPT
