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[Old] The massacre in Norway - Page 139

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Keep your off topic discussions out of this thread and show some damn respect!
ranshaked
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States870 Posts
April 19 2012 01:46 GMT
#2761
On April 19 2012 10:11 Tomba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 09:57 ranshaked wrote:
So you're going to let him live in a private cell with 3 meals a day? Doesn't sound all that bad to me. After a few years he will have tv and privlidges. He deserves none imo


He already has acces to a computer with text software and also uses it to watch tv-series as far as i know.....
So I don't know what youre talking about. Source (in norwegian tho) + Show Spoiler +
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Derfor-nekter-Breivik-a-la-seg-avhore-6740192.html#.T49mAtVh19A

Why are you giving murderers such an awesome place? Hell, those rooms are nicer than some apartments around here. Sounds more like a hotel than a prison. Prisons are meant to be hell not some place with Internet tv and a lavish life.
TehPrime
Profile Joined February 2012
United States180 Posts
April 19 2012 01:49 GMT
#2762
Some of his quotes during the trial:

Breivik, a former business fraudster, invoked Native American warriors such as Sitting Bull, raged against Islam and multicultural "hell", and warned of "rivers of blood" in Europe.


"I have carried out the most sophisticated and spectacular political attack committed in Europe since the Second World War," Breivik told the court in a monotonous, unemotional voice.
"The July 22 attacks were preemptive attacks to defend the Norwegian people and the Norwegian ethnicity.
"Yes, I would have done it again, because offences against my people… are many times as bad."


He ignored the repeated pleas of an angry judge to stop talking. When Breivik started talking about Japan and South Korea as role models, the judge asked him "to limit himself to Norwegian issues."


Interesting how he brought South Korea and Japan into his rambling.
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
April 19 2012 01:56 GMT
#2763
Everything he says is so by the book super right wing it's nearly comical. It's almost like he's some character in a satire.
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
April 19 2012 03:19 GMT
#2764
On April 19 2012 10:30 Alay wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2012 22:53 DyEnasTy wrote:

Ok you seem to be stuck on this "vengeance" crap. It is NOT vengeance if your justice system ends his life. It is "vengeance" if a victims family member went and took a gun and shot him to death.



It's still vengeance, just everyone was given the gun--and they all collectively pulled the trigger.


You sir are incorrect. read the definition of vengeance and justice. Dictionaries are useful.
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
April 19 2012 03:21 GMT
#2765
On April 19 2012 07:55 seppolevne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2012 22:53 DyEnasTy wrote:
On April 18 2012 17:31 marttorn wrote:
On April 18 2012 09:24 DyEnasTy wrote:
On July 23 2011 14:08 Plexa wrote:
Here's a picture from the old thread, supposedly of Anders about to shoot some kid praying for his life
http://bildr.no/view/933067

The blog is heart wrenching

EDIT: this is an amazing post from deep within this thread:
On July 23 2011 20:41 Aylear wrote:
If I may, I want to briefly give some opinions on how we as a nation have handled this thus far. Some of you may have read my post in the other thread (my reply here), and this is a bit of clarification and some more of the same.

It may surprise some of you - especially if you live in the United States, where sensationalism and fear drives the news - to know that the government, the police department, and the media have all been very honest and straightforward in covering this tragedy, and that the people of Norway remain calm and composed (if a lot more sombre than usual) despite the enormity of the tragedy.

For instance, after the explosion and the early reports of the shooting on Utøya, the news simply recycled what they had previously stated: That a bomb had exploded in or near a government office building, that there was a related shooting in a political youth camp on Utøya, and that people had been killed in both of these cases. The ticker line at the bottom of the screen wasn't some quote from a news anchor or the prime minister -- it was the phone number for a hotline offered to the families of the victims.

From the first, there was no public outcry of, how did this happen, how did you let this happen, who is responsible for this travesty. There was no speculation or debate, no expert-witness criticism of foreign or domestic policy, no guesswork. In fact, when an Islamic extremist group claimed responsibility for the attack, few newspapers even deigned it worthy of mention -- the claim was either ignored completely, or there was a small notice buried under other headlines dealing with the actual facts.

At the end of the day, it seems that this was the correct approach: The entire tragedy now appears to be the work of one individual, who in fact had anti-Islamic views. Planned, yes, and executed with chilling efficiency, but to muddy the waters with sensationalist guesswork like some news channels in the UK, the US, and elsewhere did before they even had any of the facts in hand is the kind of thing that can partially obfuscate the actual events in retrospect, especially for onlookers abroad that by nature get a more peripheral glance. In that regard, I am very impressed with how the aftermath has been handled locally.

Later yesterday evening, the prime minister and the minister of justice held a press conference. It was excellently handled. The prime minister, his expression stoic, opened by saying that this abhorrent event will not bring Norway down; that we will be able to remain proud of our strong democracy, and that the open discourse and debate on every topic - no matter how controversial that topic may be - which has been a staple of our freedom of speech, will remain intact -- that we will not be cowed into silence, and that our politics should become even more open in the aftermath, as that is the correct response when faced with this kind of terror.

He also stated that the first priority over the coming days is to save lives, and to provide medical aid to the victims. Later on, there will be further statements as regards to the perpetrator, but for the moment the focus is completely on providing immediate aid.

The media questions at the press conference were of a similar nature: Who is this man, has he given a motive for his actions, what will you do in the coming days, can you clarify this one small thing. Very to the point. And, again, worth of note and admiration: When asked his opinion on the alleged claim of responsibility by the Islamic extremist group, the prime minister said simply, "These groups often claim responsibility for actions they had nothing to do with in an attempt to seem more capable than they really are." It was a great response.

All in all, I admire how the aftermath of this terrible incident was dealt with, and how open and honest the police, the government, and (most of all) the media have been in reporting this obscenity to us and the rest of the world.

---

To switch topics a bit, I've noticed that some people appear to be baffled at our justice system. I will address this briefly by taking on this composite quote:

"He deserves to fry. Norway's justice system is retarded for giving him decent living conditions for the rest of his life."

Really? Killing this human being would bring back the other human beings? Would it lessen the blow of our loss? Most Norwegians don't see it that way; we don't agree with this biblical desire for vengeance. Granted, in this particular case I'm sure some Norwegians will feel differently, but we aren't going to completely alter our justice system for just one man. Even this depraved individual will not get that dubious honour.

Our justice system is one of rehabilitation and reintroduction to society. Those individuals who are simply too damaged to ever be released (of which there are very few) are simply imprisoned for life. Bad people, yes, but still human beings. We won't publicly kill a fellow human being just because we feel like it, out of some desire for revenge. How is that any better than killing someone over an ideological viewpoint? Both are abhorrent. Both are murder.

As for us having a "retarded" justice system? While you were reading about the appallingly decent living conditions provided to our prison population and the leniency granted to our criminals, you should have also looked up some numbers, namely the per capita crime rate and the number of repeat offenders. In both cases, that number is extremely low. The justice system is working a hell of a lot better than that of most countries.

Lastly, the comment that the political youth camp equals indoctrination and likening it to Hitler-Jugend is so ignorant and insulting that I don't even want to tarnish the English language by crafting a response to it, but I'll call it out anyway in order to prevent its propagation as anything but drivel: The young men and women who suffered this living nightmare yesterday were nothing more than enthusiastic youths who were personally and voluntarily interested and engaged in politics, young men and women who take an interest in and care about how the government runs their home.

So, with all that said, how is our country failing again? Please, let us know -- we desperately need to improve our standing in the Human Development Index. Seriously, can we at least agree that this misguided socialist country of ours appears to be doing something right?

---

I'll end on a much more optimistic note. I mentioned this in my previous post as well, but it's worth repeating: Shortly after the call went out for blood donors, hospitals had to start publicly declining offers from further donors because they had already acquired more than enough of even the rarer blood types. That's how quickly Oslo responded. I think I'm more happy about that than anything else.


This comment is directed at the guy you quoted Plexa, not you.

I believe the part about killing him and relating that to "biblical vengeance" is the worst description of what a death penalty and justice is. If you were to go and brutally torture/murder him lynch mob style than yes that is wrong. But ending his life is the price he pays for his actions. Everyone must be responsible for their actions. Taking away any type of repercussions for atrocious acts committed is both ethically and morally wrong.

This man should be put to death (in a humane way of course) as the consequences for his actions. All you are doing is giving him another chance to go out and savagely murder more innocent people. Grats to you.

edit: and by "you" I mean your countries laws and your defense of them.


I still can't seem to justify killing someone entirely pointlessly as "punishment". Really, it's primordial and stupid.

"Oh, you massacred 69 people and killed another 8 in a bombing? Well.. Uh, well, we're gonna kill you! Son of a bitch!"

No. It's a waste, it's pointless, it won't bring back the victims, the only good that could possibly come of such a thing would be for some of the families of the victims would feel vindicated, but that's just a primordial need for revenge that ultimately serves no purpose. Even then, would you really want the government to say "Aww, it's all right" and kill the murderer of your kid to somehow make it feel better?

As I stated before, the re-evaluation process is comprehensive enough that he wouldn't be let out were there even the slightest chance that he was still mentally deranged as he is now. This is extremely likely not to happen, and he will probably die in prison after being re-evaluated and rejected several times.

"Pointless" really is the best word I can use to describe killing ABB. The Norwegian government doesn't think highly about this form of "justice" either.

I understand that a lot of people don't quite get the way the Norwegian prison system works (including a lot of Norwegian citizens, I might add, including the ones that, on 23. July started spamming anything vaguely ABB-related on Facebook with "KILL HIM!" "BURN IN HELL YOU FUCKING MONSTER", etc.) But in my opinion, it's better than putting prisoners in dangerously bad conditions where they are liable to get injured by inmates, and also killing the ones that we think "deserve it".

The death penalty also, as far as I know, hasn't helped any nation in terms of quality of life, crime rates, political standing or anything vaguely positive.


Ok you seem to be stuck on this "vengeance" crap. It is NOT vengeance if your justice system ends his life. It is "vengeance" if a victims family member went and took a gun and shot him to death.

"Well...Uh were gonna kill you! Son of a Bitch!" That is not in any sense of the word what Im talking about. Ending his life will ensure that he will not hurt another human being and is a proper sentence for the crime he has committed. Giving him plush living conditions and the option of getting out is not making someone accountable for their actions. Its like if you see a child throwing a huge tantrum in a store, knocking items off the shelves and hitting a random passerby. What should the parent do? Buy the child a toy and say maybe next time we come here you will be good? No. Perhaps savagely beat the child into submission? No. How about proper discipline involving the child knowing ahead of time that if he misbehaves than he will be punished, and then the parent following thru? Thats more like it.

There is a clear difference between holding him accountable for his actions, and the repercussions that go along with those actions and what you call "vengeance".

Heres the definition of "vengeance":
1infliction of injury, harm, humiliation, or the like, on a person by another who has been harmed by that person; violent revenge:
2. an act or opportunity of inflicting such trouble: to take one's vengeance.
3. the desire for revenge: a man full of vengeance.


Would humanely ending his life fall in the definition above? How about this next difinition:

1. The quality of being just; fairness.
2. a. The principle of moral rightness; equity.
b. Conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude; righteousness.
3. a. The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law.
b. Law The administration and procedure of law.
4. Conformity to truth, fact, or sound reason

The above definition is for the word justice. By not having some type of punishment for the atrocities he has committed you simply enable him to do it again.

What truth is there? That he WILL kill again? That is not a truth. That is not a fact. Killing someone with a chance of redemption is not honorable.
There is "some type of punishment", it is 21-life in prison, where did you get that idea?



Um when the MAN HIMSELF says he WILL kill again. Than I would call that a damn good reason to make sure that he either receives the death penalty, or he spends the rest of his life in a prison without luxuries.
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
iMAniaC
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway703 Posts
April 19 2012 07:15 GMT
#2766
On April 19 2012 10:46 ranshaked wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 10:11 Tomba wrote:
On April 19 2012 09:57 ranshaked wrote:
So you're going to let him live in a private cell with 3 meals a day? Doesn't sound all that bad to me. After a few years he will have tv and privlidges. He deserves none imo


He already has acces to a computer with text software and also uses it to watch tv-series as far as i know.....
So I don't know what youre talking about. Source (in norwegian tho) + Show Spoiler +
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Derfor-nekter-Breivik-a-la-seg-avhore-6740192.html#.T49mAtVh19A

Why are you giving murderers such an awesome place? Hell, those rooms are nicer than some apartments around here. Sounds more like a hotel than a prison. Prisons are meant to be hell not some place with Internet tv and a lavish life.


No, prisons are meant for rehabilitation. If it takes a soft bed and a TV, so be it.
tonning
Profile Joined May 2011
Norway111 Posts
April 19 2012 07:29 GMT
#2767
The Norwegian system is pretty silly tbh. I mean on the radio they said that a prison send their prisoners to a cinema like 1 time a month, that's kind of scary considering there are non-prisoners there aswell.
Tbh he deserves more than 21 year in prison with a TV, soft bed and luxeries, he even said himself that he deserves a death penalty and the norwegian system is broken.
Never give up, never surrender. Winners never quit and quitters never win.
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
April 19 2012 08:19 GMT
#2768
Oh god..... Breivik mentioned he practiced "sight systems" for guns through playing CoD MW... Shitstorm INC from the numbnuts who thinks games are harmful....
Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
Mentalizor
Profile Joined January 2011
Denmark1596 Posts
April 19 2012 08:21 GMT
#2769
On April 19 2012 17:19 TOCHMY wrote:
Oh god..... Breivik mentioned he practiced "sight systems" for guns through playing CoD MW... Shitstorm INC from the numbnuts who thinks games are harmful....


He said that he played WoW 16hours/day for a year. I don't play WoW anymore, but I really hope people wont blame a game. If WoW actually did turn people into killers we'd have 12-20 million potential killers.
(yಠ,ಠ)y - Y U NO ALL IN? - rtsAlaran: " I somehow sit inside the bus.Hot_Bit giving me a massage"
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
April 19 2012 08:23 GMT
#2770
On April 19 2012 17:21 Mentalizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 17:19 TOCHMY wrote:
Oh god..... Breivik mentioned he practiced "sight systems" for guns through playing CoD MW... Shitstorm INC from the numbnuts who thinks games are harmful....


He said that he played WoW 16hours/day for a year. I don't play WoW anymore, but I really hope people wont blame a game. If WoW actually did turn people into killers we'd have 12-20 million potential killers.


yeah thats my point. He says he practiced "sight systems" in MW in preparation for Utöya, where he killed all those people. The thing is, he didnt kill them cuz he played MW, the guy is fucking nuts, thats why he did it. But i can see the regular "would someone please think of the children"-mom to go banans and blame video games for this:/
Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
Bleak
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Turkey3059 Posts
April 19 2012 08:29 GMT
#2771
On April 19 2012 16:15 iMAniaC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 10:46 ranshaked wrote:
On April 19 2012 10:11 Tomba wrote:
On April 19 2012 09:57 ranshaked wrote:
So you're going to let him live in a private cell with 3 meals a day? Doesn't sound all that bad to me. After a few years he will have tv and privlidges. He deserves none imo


He already has acces to a computer with text software and also uses it to watch tv-series as far as i know.....
So I don't know what youre talking about. Source (in norwegian tho) + Show Spoiler +
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Derfor-nekter-Breivik-a-la-seg-avhore-6740192.html#.T49mAtVh19A

Why are you giving murderers such an awesome place? Hell, those rooms are nicer than some apartments around here. Sounds more like a hotel than a prison. Prisons are meant to be hell not some place with Internet tv and a lavish life.


No, prisons are meant for rehabilitation. If it takes a soft bed and a TV, so be it.


You really believe a man who willingly killed 77 people is capable of actually being rehabilitated?

Norway is a funny country it seems.
"I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignorance. "
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-19 08:43:50
April 19 2012 08:32 GMT
#2772
On April 19 2012 17:29 Bleak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 16:15 iMAniaC wrote:
On April 19 2012 10:46 ranshaked wrote:
On April 19 2012 10:11 Tomba wrote:
On April 19 2012 09:57 ranshaked wrote:
So you're going to let him live in a private cell with 3 meals a day? Doesn't sound all that bad to me. After a few years he will have tv and privlidges. He deserves none imo


He already has acces to a computer with text software and also uses it to watch tv-series as far as i know.....
So I don't know what youre talking about. Source (in norwegian tho) + Show Spoiler +
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Derfor-nekter-Breivik-a-la-seg-avhore-6740192.html#.T49mAtVh19A

Why are you giving murderers such an awesome place? Hell, those rooms are nicer than some apartments around here. Sounds more like a hotel than a prison. Prisons are meant to be hell not some place with Internet tv and a lavish life.


No, prisons are meant for rehabilitation. If it takes a soft bed and a TV, so be it.


You really believe a man who willingly killed 77 people is capable of actually being rehabilitated?

Norway is a funny country it seems.


I read that in Norway they can keep prisoners in "custody" or smt (not sure of the proeper english word) for a 5 year period at a time. Each year the prisoner can request to be checked to see if he's suitable to get out and into the community again. Obviously, this guy won't get out again, so he's pretty much doomed to serve life.

EDIT: Source: http://www.aftonbladet.se/ (the chat with the reporter Linda Hjertén), it's a swedish site.

+ Show Spoiler +
In swedish: I Norge finns således inte något livstidsstraff men en liknande påföljd är förvaring. En dom till förvaring åtföljs av en minimitid och en maximitid.
Det som avgör om någon ska dömas till förvaring är att det finns en fara för samhället och en återfallsrisk. Om det mot slutet av strafftiden fortfarande bedöms att en återfallsrisk föreligger så kan domstol också förlänga strafftiden med fem år i taget.

+ Show Spoiler +
Translation: Theres no lifetime punishment in Norway, however there is something similar called "custody". A sentence to Custody is followed by minimum and maximum timescheduel.
What determines whether someone will be sentenced to custody is wether there is a danger to society and a chance for repercussion of crime. If, at the end of the sentence, it's still considered a recurrence risk, a court may extend his sentence by five years at a time.
Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
frontliner2
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Netherlands844 Posts
April 19 2012 08:37 GMT
#2773
On April 19 2012 17:21 Mentalizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 17:19 TOCHMY wrote:
Oh god..... Breivik mentioned he practiced "sight systems" for guns through playing CoD MW... Shitstorm INC from the numbnuts who thinks games are harmful....


He said that he played WoW 16hours/day for a year. I don't play WoW anymore, but I really hope people wont blame a game. If WoW actually did turn people into killers we'd have 12-20 million potential killers.


Now you are scaring me

It's so appalling what this man has done, MURDERING dozens of unarmed civilians.

I think this man is the product of multiculturalism and putting europeans 2nd place compared to immigrants.

I'm not justifying him by any means, I strongly condemn but I understand that all these feelings of 'Europe going down the shitter' which I somewhat share contribute to radicalizing 'angry young white men'. Which is bad.

Multiculturalsim is a failure. Not saying that we should get rid of minorities but trying to say that there have been too many immigrants and the goverments won't allow people to speak out their concerns regarding (muslim) immigrants.

We have millions of them in Europe now and they DO cause troubles and crime. This feeds 'white frustration' and that is dangerous.

Millions of europeans are fed up with the multiculturalism being shoved down their throats for decades by left wing governmetns and the immigrants get a lot of benefits and perks while the working european man get's less and less buying power year after year. Also crime rates ARE a problem.

Plus Islam is trying to have dominion everywhere it settles, if we ignore these problems I fear more of these problems will arise and something similarly horrible will happen. be it Islamic of nationalist terrorism.

Quite frankly I'm sure a lot of Europeans are 100% fed up with Islam. They come here and it looks like they are abusing our tax money, freedom and social structures. Besides that we've had Madrid & London bombings targeting as many infidels as possible. Murdering our politicians and critical thinkers.

Besides that we see Islamists/Salafists parading our streets demanding Sharia dominion and the beheading of our right wings politicians and their followers. this pisses us off tremendously and even I am fed up with it.

So sad that the 'good people' suffer under the bad.

sorry my english is a bit crappy, just trying to give some insight in europe's problems regarding immigration and Islam in particular. I never hear of frustration towards, Chinese, Jews, Black Africans (christians) etc.

We can't deny allowing millions of arabs into Europe doesn't have it's price. Sorry if I piss people off but this is how I view the situation objectively. People are fed up.

I just hope that the immigrants now in Europe find the strenght to adapt to our countries and at least accept and respect democracy and our culture as dominant.

It's really sad.. Let's hope things change for the better in Europe. Imho the goverments need to be really strict to immigrants. they need to integrate into society or seek their luck elsewhere.

I had a bad dream. Don't be afraid, bad dreams are only dreams. What a time you chose to be born in...
Agathon
Profile Joined February 2011
France1505 Posts
April 19 2012 09:02 GMT
#2774
On April 19 2012 17:37 frontliner2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 17:21 Mentalizor wrote:
On April 19 2012 17:19 TOCHMY wrote:
Oh god..... Breivik mentioned he practiced "sight systems" for guns through playing CoD MW... Shitstorm INC from the numbnuts who thinks games are harmful....


He said that he played WoW 16hours/day for a year. I don't play WoW anymore, but I really hope people wont blame a game. If WoW actually did turn people into killers we'd have 12-20 million potential killers.


Now you are scaring me

It's so appalling what this man has done, MURDERING dozens of unarmed civilians.

I think this man is the product of multiculturalism and putting europeans 2nd place compared to immigrants.

I'm not justifying him by any means, I strongly condemn but I understand that all these feelings of 'Europe going down the shitter' which I somewhat share contribute to radicalizing 'angry young white men'. Which is bad.

Multiculturalsim is a failure. Not saying that we should get rid of minorities but trying to say that there have been too many immigrants and the goverments won't allow people to speak out their concerns regarding (muslim) immigrants.

We have millions of them in Europe now and they DO cause troubles and crime. This feeds 'white frustration' and that is dangerous.

Millions of europeans are fed up with the multiculturalism being shoved down their throats for decades by left wing governmetns and the immigrants get a lot of benefits and perks while the working european man get's less and less buying power year after year. Also crime rates ARE a problem.

Plus Islam is trying to have dominion everywhere it settles, if we ignore these problems I fear more of these problems will arise and something similarly horrible will happen. be it Islamic of nationalist terrorism.

Quite frankly I'm sure a lot of Europeans are 100% fed up with Islam. They come here and it looks like they are abusing our tax money, freedom and social structures. Besides that we've had Madrid & London bombings targeting as many infidels as possible. Murdering our politicians and critical thinkers.

Besides that we see Islamists/Salafists parading our streets demanding Sharia dominion and the beheading of our right wings politicians and their followers. this pisses us off tremendously and even I am fed up with it.

So sad that the 'good people' suffer under the bad.

sorry my english is a bit crappy, just trying to give some insight in europe's problems regarding immigration and Islam in particular. I never hear of frustration towards, Chinese, Jews, Black Africans (christians) etc.

We can't deny allowing millions of arabs into Europe doesn't have it's price. Sorry if I piss people off but this is how I view the situation objectively. People are fed up.

I just hope that the immigrants now in Europe find the strenght to adapt to our countries and at least accept and respect democracy and our culture as dominant.

It's really sad.. Let's hope things change for the better in Europe. Imho the goverments need to be really strict to immigrants. they need to integrate into society or seek their luck elsewhere.



"We can't deny allowing millions of arabs into Europe doesn't have it's price. Sorry if I piss people off but this is how I view the situation objectively. People are fed u"

We can deny it because it's 100% false.

The problem are extremists (Like Breivik or catholics extremists, muslim extremists, or any shit like that based on hate), but 99% of muslims (in France at least) are...just like me and you !

I mean, i live with them, they are in my office at work, in the subway in Paris, i buy my food in the same place, i speak, laugh, sometimes drink beers with them, I know them !

They are not the reason of Europe's problems. Not at all.

And you don't piss me off. It's sad, but you have a pretty standard biased point of view with a lack of knowledge, i'm used to it.
"C'est au pied du mur, qu'on voit le mieux...le mur".
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
April 19 2012 09:06 GMT
#2775
On April 19 2012 17:29 Bleak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 16:15 iMAniaC wrote:
On April 19 2012 10:46 ranshaked wrote:
On April 19 2012 10:11 Tomba wrote:
On April 19 2012 09:57 ranshaked wrote:
So you're going to let him live in a private cell with 3 meals a day? Doesn't sound all that bad to me. After a few years he will have tv and privlidges. He deserves none imo


He already has acces to a computer with text software and also uses it to watch tv-series as far as i know.....
So I don't know what youre talking about. Source (in norwegian tho) + Show Spoiler +
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Derfor-nekter-Breivik-a-la-seg-avhore-6740192.html#.T49mAtVh19A

Why are you giving murderers such an awesome place? Hell, those rooms are nicer than some apartments around here. Sounds more like a hotel than a prison. Prisons are meant to be hell not some place with Internet tv and a lavish life.


No, prisons are meant for rehabilitation. If it takes a soft bed and a TV, so be it.


You really believe a man who willingly killed 77 people is capable of actually being rehabilitated?

Norway is a funny country it seems.

It's a principle and it makes sense. Sure you could put people in prison to punish them, and you could have the state kill criminals to get rid of them... then again, you could also live in caves in leather skins.
Teoman
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Norway382 Posts
April 19 2012 09:16 GMT
#2776
On April 18 2012 21:28 r.Evo wrote:
Dear people who want to see this guy rot in hell, get executed or raped for the next 50 years straight,

please show some damn respect to a legal and social system that in all likelyhood produces less and resocializes more criminals than the ones in your own country. Contrary to most other countries on this planet, these guys must be doing something right. Stop smacking them for something you don't understand, but what clearly works.

</3


...



Dear Norwegians,

a part of me always enjoyed being at the front when events like this happen. I usually want to soak up as much information about tragic events like these in the shortest amount of possible time. In fact, I still remember sleeping like 3 hours within 3 days when this started, just to keep people posted and up to date here, add more information and pictures and keep false rumors from spreading.

I can't think of any event (neither with more nor less impact) where I have been more impressed by the people handling it. What you guys have pulled off from literally the first minutes all the way up to this trial is one of the most humane and inspiring things I've seen a country and it's people do in my life. This entire event, as tragic as it is, will be something I will tell my kids about in the future if I'm going to have any.

Thank you for setting an example for the rest of the world. It's not more, not less. Just that.

<3³

¨
Thank, it warms my heart <3

On April 18 2012 21:42 sc4k wrote:
I'm all for human rights, fair trial and all that good stuff, but why the hell do the lawyers representing breivik's victims' families shake his hand? The guy really doesn't seem to have been treated like a mass murderer of youngsters. I get that Norway wants to show how they bend over backwards to adhere to the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty', but it's not like this case will, from the viewpoint of any sane individual, produce a result that doesn't in some way show he is guilty.


Well, what is the correct objective treatment of people who are not convicted, but are on trial for mass murder?

Should he be brought in in shackles with people throwing tomatoes at him?

The innocent until proven otherwise is a cornerstone in western legal systems. And making exceptions to that would be betraying what this system stands for.

On April 19 2012 10:46 ranshaked wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 10:11 Tomba wrote:
On April 19 2012 09:57 ranshaked wrote:
So you're going to let him live in a private cell with 3 meals a day? Doesn't sound all that bad to me. After a few years he will have tv and privlidges. He deserves none imo


He already has acces to a computer with text software and also uses it to watch tv-series as far as i know.....
So I don't know what youre talking about. Source (in norwegian tho) + Show Spoiler +
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Derfor-nekter-Breivik-a-la-seg-avhore-6740192.html#.T49mAtVh19A

Why are you giving murderers such an awesome place? Hell, those rooms are nicer than some apartments around here. Sounds more like a hotel than a prison. Prisons are meant to be hell not some place with Internet tv and a lavish life.


Prisons in Norway arent meant to be hell, they are meant to be for rehabilitation, so that crime can be prevented in the future. If you believe otherwise, i suggest you check out some statistics to simply show you what works best at the moment. I can understand the sence of injustice you may feel over this though.

On April 19 2012 16:29 tonning wrote:
The Norwegian system is pretty silly tbh. I mean on the radio they said that a prison send their prisoners to a cinema like 1 time a month, that's kind of scary considering there are non-prisoners there aswell.
Tbh he deserves more than 21 year in prison with a TV, soft bed and luxeries, he even said himself that he deserves a death penalty and the norwegian system is broken.


Well, Is him getting his will what he really deserves?

On April 19 2012 17:29 Bleak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 16:15 iMAniaC wrote:
On April 19 2012 10:46 ranshaked wrote:
On April 19 2012 10:11 Tomba wrote:
On April 19 2012 09:57 ranshaked wrote:
So you're going to let him live in a private cell with 3 meals a day? Doesn't sound all that bad to me. After a few years he will have tv and privlidges. He deserves none imo


He already has acces to a computer with text software and also uses it to watch tv-series as far as i know.....
So I don't know what youre talking about. Source (in norwegian tho) + Show Spoiler +
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Derfor-nekter-Breivik-a-la-seg-avhore-6740192.html#.T49mAtVh19A

Why are you giving murderers such an awesome place? Hell, those rooms are nicer than some apartments around here. Sounds more like a hotel than a prison. Prisons are meant to be hell not some place with Internet tv and a lavish life.


No, prisons are meant for rehabilitation. If it takes a soft bed and a TV, so be it.


You really believe a man who willingly killed 77 people is capable of actually being rehabilitated?

Norway is a funny country it seems.


If principles like all people are equal to the law, and all people are to be treated equally with equal chanses makes a country funny. Then i will be laughing along sir!
"Quisque est barbarus alii."
BreakfastBurrito
Profile Joined November 2011
United States893 Posts
April 19 2012 09:18 GMT
#2777
On April 19 2012 17:37 frontliner2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 17:21 Mentalizor wrote:
On April 19 2012 17:19 TOCHMY wrote:
Oh god..... Breivik mentioned he practiced "sight systems" for guns through playing CoD MW... Shitstorm INC from the numbnuts who thinks games are harmful....


He said that he played WoW 16hours/day for a year. I don't play WoW anymore, but I really hope people wont blame a game. If WoW actually did turn people into killers we'd have 12-20 million potential killers.


Now you are scaring me

It's so appalling what this man has done, MURDERING dozens of unarmed civilians.

I think this man is the product of multiculturalism and putting europeans 2nd place compared to immigrants.

I'm not justifying him by any means, I strongly condemn but I understand that all these feelings of 'Europe going down the shitter' which I somewhat share contribute to radicalizing 'angry young white men'. Which is bad.

Multiculturalsim is a failure. Not saying that we should get rid of minorities but trying to say that there have been too many immigrants and the goverments won't allow people to speak out their concerns regarding (muslim) immigrants.

We have millions of them in Europe now and they DO cause troubles and crime. This feeds 'white frustration' and that is dangerous.

Millions of europeans are fed up with the multiculturalism being shoved down their throats for decades by left wing governmetns and the immigrants get a lot of benefits and perks while the working european man get's less and less buying power year after year. Also crime rates ARE a problem.

Plus Islam is trying to have dominion everywhere it settles, if we ignore these problems I fear more of these problems will arise and something similarly horrible will happen. be it Islamic of nationalist terrorism.

Quite frankly I'm sure a lot of Europeans are 100% fed up with Islam. They come here and it looks like they are abusing our tax money, freedom and social structures. Besides that we've had Madrid & London bombings targeting as many infidels as possible. Murdering our politicians and critical thinkers.

Besides that we see Islamists/Salafists parading our streets demanding Sharia dominion and the beheading of our right wings politicians and their followers. this pisses us off tremendously and even I am fed up with it.

So sad that the 'good people' suffer under the bad.

sorry my english is a bit crappy, just trying to give some insight in europe's problems regarding immigration and Islam in particular. I never hear of frustration towards, Chinese, Jews, Black Africans (christians) etc.

We can't deny allowing millions of arabs into Europe doesn't have it's price. Sorry if I piss people off but this is how I view the situation objectively. People are fed up.

I just hope that the immigrants now in Europe find the strenght to adapt to our countries and at least accept and respect democracy and our culture as dominant.

It's really sad.. Let's hope things change for the better in Europe. Imho the goverments need to be really strict to immigrants. they need to integrate into society or seek their luck elsewhere.



how can you lump all people following Islam into one group? Extremists are very different from the normal person. This is true for any religion, and not even limited to religion, but any group. Homogeneity is not the answer to your problems at all.
Being a Muslim doesn't incline you towards crime and mooching off the government either, that really is rude to say :/
And you've never heard of "frustration" towards christians, jews, or blacks? This is mind-boggling to me... Islam is the ONLY group you've EVER heard being judged as a whole?
Multiculturalism shoved down your throat? Man, they are people too just like you and I :/
twitch.tv/jaytherey | Yapper891 if you are reading this, PM me. its Twisty.
Heouf
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands787 Posts
April 19 2012 09:30 GMT
#2778
There is something wrong with ths guy. I watched a reportage about this incident. Survivors on the island said he was laughing while killing people. Shooting people in the head cause he taught or knew they were pretending dead.
Gokba Alhakel
frontliner2
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Netherlands844 Posts
April 19 2012 09:34 GMT
#2779
On April 19 2012 18:18 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 17:37 frontliner2 wrote:
On April 19 2012 17:21 Mentalizor wrote:
On April 19 2012 17:19 TOCHMY wrote:
Oh god..... Breivik mentioned he practiced "sight systems" for guns through playing CoD MW... Shitstorm INC from the numbnuts who thinks games are harmful....


He said that he played WoW 16hours/day for a year. I don't play WoW anymore, but I really hope people wont blame a game. If WoW actually did turn people into killers we'd have 12-20 million potential killers.


Now you are scaring me

It's so appalling what this man has done, MURDERING dozens of unarmed civilians.

I think this man is the product of multiculturalism and putting europeans 2nd place compared to immigrants.

I'm not justifying him by any means, I strongly condemn but I understand that all these feelings of 'Europe going down the shitter' which I somewhat share contribute to radicalizing 'angry young white men'. Which is bad.

Multiculturalsim is a failure. Not saying that we should get rid of minorities but trying to say that there have been too many immigrants and the goverments won't allow people to speak out their concerns regarding (muslim) immigrants.

We have millions of them in Europe now and they DO cause troubles and crime. This feeds 'white frustration' and that is dangerous.

Millions of europeans are fed up with the multiculturalism being shoved down their throats for decades by left wing governmetns and the immigrants get a lot of benefits and perks while the working european man get's less and less buying power year after year. Also crime rates ARE a problem.

Plus Islam is trying to have dominion everywhere it settles, if we ignore these problems I fear more of these problems will arise and something similarly horrible will happen. be it Islamic of nationalist terrorism.

Quite frankly I'm sure a lot of Europeans are 100% fed up with Islam. They come here and it looks like they are abusing our tax money, freedom and social structures. Besides that we've had Madrid & London bombings targeting as many infidels as possible. Murdering our politicians and critical thinkers.

Besides that we see Islamists/Salafists parading our streets demanding Sharia dominion and the beheading of our right wings politicians and their followers. this pisses us off tremendously and even I am fed up with it.

So sad that the 'good people' suffer under the bad.

sorry my english is a bit crappy, just trying to give some insight in europe's problems regarding immigration and Islam in particular. I never hear of frustration towards, Chinese, Jews, Black Africans (christians) etc.

We can't deny allowing millions of arabs into Europe doesn't have it's price. Sorry if I piss people off but this is how I view the situation objectively. People are fed up.

I just hope that the immigrants now in Europe find the strenght to adapt to our countries and at least accept and respect democracy and our culture as dominant.

It's really sad.. Let's hope things change for the better in Europe. Imho the goverments need to be really strict to immigrants. they need to integrate into society or seek their luck elsewhere.



how can you lump all people following Islam into one group? Extremists are very different from the normal person. This is true for any religion, and not even limited to religion, but any group. Homogeneity is not the answer to your problems at all.
Being a Muslim doesn't incline you towards crime and mooching off the government either, that really is rude to say :/
And you've never heard of "frustration" towards christians, jews, or blacks? This is mind-boggling to me... Islam is the ONLY group you've EVER heard being judged as a whole?
Multiculturalism shoved down your throat? Man, they are people too just like you and I :/


I agree with you 100% but I'm just saying that multiculturalism is feeding anger to people such as Breivik. Also I sense that europeans are fed up and this is a problem. Looking away from the situation isn't going to take away the frustration and frustration will always find a way out.

Btw, I was giving a description of how I feel the average european is feeling regarding immigration, and Islam in particular.

Look at politics, it's becoming increasingly right wing and the way I see it their support grows because the populations are fed up with Islam. that's the point I'm trying to make. Also the crime rates are much much higher amongst arab youths compared to indiginous people.

Btw, I don't dislike minorities at all, just saying that there is a lot of frustration in europe regarding multiculturalism.



I had a bad dream. Don't be afraid, bad dreams are only dreams. What a time you chose to be born in...
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
April 19 2012 09:38 GMT
#2780
On April 19 2012 18:34 frontliner2 wrote:

Btw, I was giving a description of how I feel the average european is feeling regarding immigration, and Islam in particular.




How can you feel what the avarage european feel? Have you conducted a study to prove this? I don't feel the way you feel the avarage european feel. Does that not make me an avarage european?
Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
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