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Please stop posting that he shouldn't have invited her into his bed since that's apparently not what happened... read the OP and links BEFORE commenting. | ||
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
On July 09 2011 17:04 SichuanPanda wrote: Whether he reasonably expected it to happen or not, if an under-age teenager gets into your bed while your asleep. You don't wake up and bang them unless you're a pedophile or a rapist. Guess what, he's a rapist. But what if he didn't wake up? | ||
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
Then he's lacking some sort of medication to control his condition. Otherwise there was a severe level of negligence on the part of the person who left the girl in his care. Sorry but 'he has sexsomania' is not a valid excuse to totally ruining the emotional capacity of this girl, possibly for life. Its a horrible crime and the perpetrator is getting away with it. I don't care if he was asleep, awake, in a coma, or dead. What happened is inexcusable, and him receiving no penalty is even worse. So what, all I have to do is give a girl a roofy now, and then once I've had my way with her I tell the cops 'sorry officer I have sexsomania I was asleep and didn't know I was raping her' and I get off scoff free? I mean she won't remember anything, so like every other sexsomania case its my word against no ones. | ||
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Kojak21
Canada1104 Posts
this applys to rape and other things also | ||
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
On July 09 2011 17:13 Kojak21 wrote: if a person goes around killing people in his sleep, he should still be held responsible for it, even if he doesnt remember or means to, its to keep other people safe. this applys to rape and other things also Exactly, and if not that person, the people who were supposed to keep their problem in line. | ||
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HackBenjamin
Canada1094 Posts
On July 09 2011 17:13 Kojak21 wrote: if a person goes around killing people in his sleep, he should still be held responsible for it, even if he doesnt remember or means to, its to keep other people safe. this applys to rape and other things also Well I don't think it's fair to hold someone responsible for an act they 1) don't control and 2) don't remember. I don't know anyone who is a total master of their subconscious. If anything, he should be able to plead temporary insanity. | ||
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megapants
United States1314 Posts
i say that person who tells the girl to go into his bed should be held accountable. does this person live with the accused? if so, they should know of his condition and warn people who are staying over of it. however, if they didn't know of it, then the accused should be held responsible for keeping this information secret from those who it may cause harm. either way, i believe someone ought to be punished for their ignorance. the fact that his condition is uncontrollable or whatever is irrelevant here, in my opinion. his carelessness is what irks me the most. the fact that he, and those defending him, deny his lack of concern for the young girl is quite frustrating. i don't think he should be punished for the crime of intentionally violating the girl, but he ought be tought a lesson for not taking his condition seriously. i'm sure there are points to counter my argument, but i feel like there are few things that should be able to get around the fact he just straight up didn't care enough to prevent this from happening. | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On July 09 2011 17:04 SichuanPanda wrote: You don't wake up and bang them unless you're a pedophile or a rapist. Guess what, he's a rapist. As has been pointed out over and over, he was unconscious. | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On July 09 2011 17:11 SichuanPanda wrote: Then he's lacking some sort of medication to control his condition. Otherwise there was a severe level of negligence on the part of the person who left the girl in his care. He wouldn't need medication for it if girls weren't climbing into his bed without permission. You do have a point about negligence, as apparently someone else told a 16-year-old girl to climb into bed with a naked 43-year-old man, which is a bad idea even if he wasn't a sexsomniac. On July 09 2011 17:11 SichuanPanda wrote: I don't care if he was asleep, awake, in a coma, or dead. Then you're an idiot with no understanding of crime, mens rea, or justice. On July 09 2011 17:11 SichuanPanda wrote:So what, all I have to do is give a girl a roofy now, and then once I've had my way with her I tell the cops 'sorry officer I have sexsomania I was asleep and didn't know I was raping her' and I get off scoff free? You can't just 'claim' it. Medical professionals can verify whether it's true by monitoring your brain wave activity, which is not something you can fake. | ||
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Gnial
Canada907 Posts
On July 09 2011 16:50 Fenrax wrote: I still highly doubt that he had no self control. That is just for your information and not relevant for the discussion. Just ignore my opinion on this in replies for now because it is both not relevant for the current discussion and not discussable in a productive manner in the current state of the thread. On a side note, Starcraft jokes are very inappropiate in such a thread (but paradigmatic of how people still seem to not accept rape as a serious crime even in a quite educated forum) and please stop calling me an idiot or ridiculing me, I am just trying to argue my opinions. Assuming he had absolutely no self control, then the court should have taken other measures to prevent this from happening again. What if someone kills another person who comes into his bedroom while asleep? Would you also go and say "You were asleep so no big deal dude, go home, everything's okay. You just have no self control in that state and that person shouldn't have come to your bedroom in the first place."? Probably not, right? So where is the big difference to rape? Sure, rape is not as severe as murder but it is still one of the most serious and harmful crimes a person can commit. Therefore it is imo a big mistake by the court to just ignore this. Just like this it depends on the circumstances. To try to generalize and say that all people who kill someone else in their sleep are obviously murderers just misses the point. If you kill an intruder in your home in your sleep, you'll get off because that intruder wasn't supposed to be there. Even if you had killed someone in your sleep before, and you killed someone again who was supposed to be there, you still can't commit murder. Its called manslaughter in that case. You just need to inform yourself about how the law works. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On July 09 2011 17:11 SichuanPanda wrote: Then he's lacking some sort of medication to control his condition. Otherwise there was a severe level of negligence on the part of the person who left the girl in his care. Sorry but 'he has sexsomania' is not a valid excuse to totally ruining the emotional capacity of this girl, possibly for life. Its a horrible crime and the perpetrator is getting away with it. I don't care if he was asleep, awake, in a coma, or dead. What happened is inexcusable, and him receiving no penalty is even worse. So what, all I have to do is give a girl a roofy now, and then once I've had my way with her I tell the cops 'sorry officer I have sexsomania I was asleep and didn't know I was raping her' and I get off scoff free? I mean she won't remember anything, so like every other sexsomania case its my word against no ones. This isn't a condition you can just pretend to have and fool everyone. The guy has two solid witnesses (former partners) to vouch for his condition, but more importantly he has a sleep expert that has presumably done tests and brain scans to diagnose him. You can't just say "I have sexsomnia" and have everyone believe you with no proof and let you walk. Why would he need medication to control it, before now it was at most a (very) minor inconvenience, probably more of an amusement. There was no reason to believe that the condition would ever result in a tragedy like this one. You need to accept that there is no criminal here, just two unlucky people and an unfortunate set of circumstances. | ||
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HereticSaint
United States240 Posts
On July 09 2011 17:13 Kojak21 wrote: if a person goes around killing people in his sleep, he should still be held responsible for it, even if he doesnt remember or means to, its to keep other people safe. this applys to rape and other things also Being, "held responsible" isn't quite the appropriate description of what would be happening under this particular context. You want to know why? Because it would have absolutely no impact on if this occurs in the future again or not. So, what you are actually describing is the need for vengeance over something someone can't control. I'm sick of twits like you comparing someone who wanders around and murders people in their sleep to someone who will potentially stick it to someone who enters their bed (I don't even know for sure if he was naked, but if he was the girl deserved every bit of it and I don't feel bad for her at all, she's 16, not 12). The similarity is only the state of the individual, the crimes are different and therefore you handle them differently. I'm even more sick of the people who think because they are a certain way, everyone in. Guess what? Do you like Strawberries? Guess what, somewhere out there in the World there's someone who hates Strawberries, who would vomit excessively at the mere sight of Strawberries, PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT. Stop imparting your personal opinion on a discussion regarding logic and facts. Otherwise we might as well be talking about the weather outside; It's slightly overcast here guys, how about where you live? | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
Couldn't the girl slap him and try to wake him up? | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On July 10 2011 01:24 HereticSaint wrote: Being, "held responsible" isn't quite the appropriate description of what would be happening under this particular context. You want to know why? Because it would have absolutely no impact on if this occurs in the future again or not. So, what you are actually describing is the need for vengeance over something someone can't control. I'm sick of twits like you comparing someone who wanders around and murders people in their sleep to someone who will potentially stick it to someone who enters their bed (I don't even know for sure if he was naked, but if he was the girl deserved every bit of it and I don't feel bad for her at all, she's 16, not 12). The similarity is only the state of the individual, the crimes are different and therefore you handle them differently. So what if someone kills another person who comes into his bedroom while asleep? Would you also go and say "You were asleep so no big deal dude, go home, everything's okay. You just have no self control in that state and that person shouldn't have come to your bedroom in the first place."? Probably not, right? So where is the big difference to rape? Sure, rape is not as severe as murder but it is still one of the most serious and harmful crimes a person can commit. | ||
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
On July 10 2011 01:30 Patriot.dlk wrote: I agree that he needs to be more responsible about his behavior. He should't have young women sleeping over regardless of same bed or not. Also I don't buy his condition I say he could have prevented this You can't just say 'I don't buy' it unless you're a specialist in the field. Just because it sounds silly to you doesn't mean it's not real. | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
On July 10 2011 01:36 Fenrax wrote: So what if someone kills another person who comes into his bedroom while asleep? Would you also go and say "You were asleep so no big deal dude, go home, everything's okay. You just have no self control in that state and that person shouldn't have come to your bedroom in the first place."? Probably not, right? So where is the big difference to rape? Sure, rape is not as severe as murder but it is still one of the most serious and harmful crimes a person can commit. If there no mens rea, then there's no crime. Get that through your skull. Get out of this stupid black and white world where because something bad happened someone must be punished. Bad shit happens sometimes and people don't mean for it to happen. The guy didn't intend to rape the girl, punishing him for it is simply false justice. | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
On July 10 2011 01:37 Redmark wrote: You can't just say 'I don't buy' it unless you're a specialist in the field. Just because it sounds silly to you doesn't mean it's not real. Well i am entitled to having an uneducated opinion about whatever I want I assume you practice this right as well? I mean your argument applies to any situation. "I don't want to buy this car, it's to expensive." Well are you an expert in pricing of cars and all the other expertise you need? This is the day of the internet where experts are worth less | ||
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Irrelevant
United States2364 Posts
On July 09 2011 17:13 Kojak21 wrote: if a person goes around killing people in his sleep, he should still be held responsible for it, even if he doesnt remember or means to, its to keep other people safe. this applys to rape and other things also No he would get temporary insanity and get treatment for it, he wouldn't get convicted of murder. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On July 10 2011 01:46 Patriot.dlk wrote: Well i am entitled to having an uneducated opinion about whatever I want I assume you practice this right as well? I mean your argument applies to any situation. "I don't want to buy this car, it's to expensive." Well are you an expert in pricing of cars and all the other expertise you need? This is the day of the internet where experts are worth less No, but you are an expert on what you consider the value of money to be, as well as on how much you value a new car. You are the best judge of how much you're willing to spend on a car. But in the sexsomnia case, you are obviously not a good judge of how credible the condition is. There is no reason to doubt the expertise of the person who diagnosed him. | ||
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
On July 09 2011 20:20 sunprince wrote: He wouldn't need medication for it if girls weren't climbing into his bed without permission. You do have a point about negligence, as apparently someone else told a 16-year-old girl to climb into bed with a naked 43-year-old man, which is a bad idea even if he wasn't a sexsomniac. Then you're an idiot with no understanding of crime, mens rea, or justice. You can't just 'claim' it. Medical professionals can verify whether it's true by monitoring your brain wave activity, which is not something you can fake. You can very much fake brain activity actually, just think something different. Bottom line is simple, it is not the girls FAULT for what happened, and anyone trying to say so is truly a piece of shit. 'She shouldn't have climbed into his bed', yea and HE SHOULDN'T HAVE RAPED. Unconscious or not it is unacceptable, its HIS fault that she wasn't aware of his condition, and HIS fault for what happened to her. Sorry but most people don't expect that if you were to lay beside someone in bed that they are gonna turn around and have sex with you. | ||
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