I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that those mathematicians who are for this change tend to be applied mathematicians >_>.
Really though, I can't see this actually happening, only because mathematicians have a tendency to use notation they're comfortable with and not give a shit. For example, you'll see sup and lub both used to denote the least upper bound of a set, or perhaps one professor will use dy/dx to denote a derivative as opposed to f'. Yes, some groups of mathematicians have a tendency to prefer one symbol over another (the two real analysis texts I've used have utilized f' and one went so far as to call the leibnizian notation barbaric), but it's really just preference.
Anyway, that's my beer-induced opinion on the matter.
On July 02 2011 11:41 Muirhead wrote: :X As a mathematician, I can say "who cares?" :D
Don't most mathematicians value mathematical elegance? Isnt tau more elegant than 2pi?
Mathematical elegance isn't quite "hey, this equation looks pretty!" The quality of mathematical elegance has more to do with proofs. For example, Cantor's diagonal method is a very elegant way to prove that the set of reals is uncountable (as opposed to the other methods he published).
Changing this detail wouldn't matter to me, but I think you're reacting to this in a very childish and sad way.
I think the americans are reacting to this in a very childish and sad way.
Our understanding of mathematics, today, is better and superior to what it was a thousand years ago. Not sure what your question implies, this is obvious.
And "the Americans" aren't reacting in a very childish way. It was brought up and it's being considered while some brilliant folks from Denmark (well, just you) are just throwing it out without giving it thought!
On July 02 2011 15:00 MrBludgeon wrote: I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that those mathematicians who are for this change tend to be applied mathematicians >_>.
Really though, I can't see this actually happening, only because mathematicians have a tendency to use notation they're comfortable with and not give a shit. For example, you'll see sup and lub both used to denote the least upper bound of a set, or perhaps one professor will use dy/dx to denote a derivative as opposed to f'. Yes, some groups of mathematicians have a tendency to prefer one symbol over another (the two real analysis texts I've used have utilized f' and one went so far as to call the leibnizian notation barbaric), but it's really just preference.
Anyway, that's my beer-induced opinion on the matter.
Heheheh.
Recently, a colleague declared a grant proposal of mine to be "fit only for Philistines and swine!".
You may be on to something. As much as I might wish otherwise, I'm ultimately an applied mathematician. Incidentally, your description of mathematical elegance further down is, well, elegant.
On July 02 2011 15:09 Boblion wrote: I think it is quite funny that an American mathematician want to get rid of pi when they are still using their own customary units system.
Taus and inches are the future !
haha yeah and Guam may capsize
Its very bad, and we need to have more gallons of water on the lightweighted end of the island!
It's ridiculous imo, would be one thing if it was squared or such. 2pi is just about as easy to write down as tau. Seems to me like a mathematician has nothing of worth to put out so he's campainging for pointless crap like this.
Not to mention changing the value of pi in scientific papers world wide is only going to be a pain. And the use of tau is a complication in itself in every kind of engineering field since it's usually reserved for circuit constants and so on.
On July 02 2011 11:41 Muirhead wrote: :X As a mathematician, I can say "who cares?" :D
Don't most mathematicians value mathematical elegance? Isnt tau more elegant than 2pi?
No. elegance is not important. What is important is that the left side equals to the right side
1+1=2 2=2 x=x
etc
Wether it is written on a discarded candy wrapper or on an advanced computer with 2ghz of processing power, doesnt change the value of elegance.
No tau and pi is equal elegant, but it really doesnt matter anything.
Actually, elegance is quite important. An elegant solution is valued far more highly than an inelegant one. See MrBludgeon's post for a nice description.
Whether tau is more elegant than pi can be debated (or not, depending on your point of view and level of vehemence), but that isn't what you are saying.
Besides a pure aesthetic beauty to it, there are practical reasons to value elegance in mathematics. Elegant proofs and solutions are almost always simple and easy to check and understand. This same [relative] simplicity means that they can [more] easily be used elsewhere or corollaries [more] readily seen and extrapolated. And that's just the beginning of it.
Atheist Math Teachers Will Force Your Children to Learn “Irrational” Numbers
Cool Tom Kimbo
God is great. His reasoning is beyond that of yours or mine, and all of His creation is without flaw. Everything He makes, He makes for a reason, and nothing He makes is lacking in order or clarity.
But we are living in dark days. Heathen scientists have invented their own language to talk to each other and work to dismantle our Christian nation. They speak in hushed tones of numbers that go on forever, ever-twisting and changing like so many serpents. Atheist math teachers call these “irrational numbers,” a perfect name for a foolish sinful concept that denies God and reason. Atheists will tell you these numbers are “everywhere.” They are nowhere but in sinful heathen scientist’s minds.
Public schools are dens of sin where gothemo girls will try to rub their milk sacs all over your son. But advances from titful harlots are not the only dangers–even the teachers in public schools try to force sin on the young. The fabricated devil science of “evolution” has long been recognized by Christians as Satanic, but irrational numbers are equally as unholy, and children have been forced to learn them as “fact” for years.
The most popular “irrational number” is pi, or the circumference of a circle divided by its diameter. Atheists claim that pi is equal to 3.14159265… and on and on and never stopping even though your good Christian mind knows that it must stop at some point. But is this really the correct value for pi? Let’s consult the Bible, looking at a passage where Huram constructs a circular pool for King Solomon:
He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it. –1 Kings 7:23 Any child with a calculator or simple math skills can tell you that 30 cubits divided by 10 cubits–circumference divided by diameter–is 3. Pi is equal to 3. And yet atheist sin scientists continue to believe their made-up lies about devil-worshipping forever-numbers!
PI IS EQUAL TO THREE YOU HOMOPROMOTING DEVIL EVOLUTION SCIENTISTS!!!
To support their “theories,” math sinners have even come up with a host of other completely made-up irrational numbers, such as e and i, which are not numbers, they are letters. Moreover, they are two of the letters in the word “devil,” which is certainly not a coincidence. Neither is it a coincidence that the two letters in “pi,” “p” and “i,” are the two most important letters in “penis.” Homo math teachers want to touch your child’s penis and they are barely even being subtle about it.
The only solution to all of this math and science sin is to pull your child out of evil government school and teach him at home. Public school will teach your baby evolution lies and it will also teach them that God is not rational. Pi equals three and there is no argument to be made against it. Home school your children, and write your Senator to demand we stop funding the Chinese lies that are taught in our classrooms.
Hehe, joke reason to get rid of pi.
Edit: rereading the article I can't tell if he's joking or really actually that stupid.
Anyway, I always did pi*d instead of 2pi*r. And calculating radians would be much easier.
choosing tau is probably not a good idea, it is already taken up by other concepts. eg. tau pathologies in Alzheimer's disease.
And it would be interesting for mathematicians to actually have to relearn stuff like every other profession once in a while.
As a mathematician I don't care which one gets used, they both have advantages and disadvantages.
But I take offense to the use of both Tau and Pi as put forward by some people in-thread and briefly in that article. No, we don't need two Greek letters used up for two constants which are multiples of 2 from each other. h and h-bar in physics is bad enough!
I already write 2*pi*hbar instead of just writing h most of the time....
If people want to introduce tau as a standard constant with the value of 2*pi I see nothing wrong with that. I very highly doubt that pi will disappear. But like Planck's constant I see no harm in having two different "versions" of pi available for when one makes notation simpler than the other.
EPT
)
