• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 00:13
CET 06:13
KST 14:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)35
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey!
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Which foreign pros are considered the best? Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1250 users

Get rid of pi?

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 16 17 18 Next All
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24753 Posts
July 02 2011 02:29 GMT
#1
[image loading]


For many years we have used pi as a constant in mathematics and other math-heavy disciplines such as physics. There is a movement to create a new constant with a value ~= 6.28, or 2*pi. Read this article (from http://news.yahoo.com/mathematicians-want-goodbye-pi-154001699.html ):

+ Show Spoiler [full text] +
Mathematicians Want to Say Goodbye to Pi

"I know it will be called blasphemy by some, but I believe that pi is wrong."
That's the opening line of a watershed essay written in 2001 by mathematician Bob Palais of the University of Utah. In "Pi is Wrong!" Palais argued that, for thousands of years, humans have been focusing their attention and adulation on the wrong mathematical constant.
Two times pi, not pi itself, is the truly sacred number of the circle, Palais contended. We should be celebrating and symbolizing the value that is equal to approximately 6.28 — the ratio of a circle's circumference to its radius — and not to the 3.14'ish ratio of its circumference to its diameter (a largely irrelevant property in geometry).
Last year, Palais' followers gave the new constant, 2pi, a name: tau. Since then, the tau movement has steadily grown, with its members hoping to replace pi as it appears in textbooks and calculators with tau, the true idol of math. Yesterday — 6/28 — they even celebrated Tau Day in math events worldwide.
But is pi really "wrong"? And if it is, why is tau better?
The mathematicians aren't saying that pi has been wrongly calculated. Its value is still approximately 3.14, as it always was. Rather they argue that 3.14 isn't the value that matters most when it comes to circles. Palais originally argued that pi should be changed to equal 6.28 while others prefer giving that number a new name altogether.
Kevin Houston, a mathematician at the University of Leeds in the U.K. who has made a YouTube video to explain all the advantages of tau over pi, said the most compelling argument for tau is that it is a much more natural number to use in the fields of math involving circles, like geometry, trigonometry and even advanced calculus.
"When measuring angles, mathematicians don't use degrees, they use radians," Houston enthusiastically told Life's Little Mysteries, a sister site to LiveScience. "There are 2pi radians in a circle. This means one quarter of a circle corresponds to half of pi. That is, one quarter corresponds to a half. That's crazy. Similarly, three quarters of a circle is three halves of pi. Three quarters corresponds to three halves!" [A Real Pie Chart: America's Favorite Pies]
"Let's now use tau," he continued. "One quarter of a circle is one quarter of tau. One quarter corresponds to one quarter! Isn't that sensible and easy to remember? Similarly, three quarters of a circle is three quarters of tau." Making tau equal to the full angular turn through a circle, he said, is "so easy and would prevent math, physics and engineering students from making silly errors."
A better teaching tool
Aside from preventing errors, as Palais put it in his article, "The opportunity to impress students with a beautiful and natural simplification has turned into an absurd exercise in memorization and dogma."
Indeed, other tau advocates have said they've noticed a significant improvement in the ability of students to learn math, especially geometry and trigonometry where factors of 2pi show up the most, when the students learn with tau rather than pi.
Though 2pi appears much more often in calculations than does pi by itself (in fact, mathematicians often accidentally drop or ad that extra factor of 2 in their calculations), "there is no need for pi to be eradicated," Houston said. "You might say I'm not anti-pi, I'm pro-tau. Hence, anyone could use pi when they had a calculation involving half of tau."
Tau, the 19th letter of the Greek alphabet, was chosen independently as the symbol for 2pi by Michael Hartl, physicist and mathematician and author of "The Tau Manifesto," and Peter Harremoës, a Danish information theorist. In an email, Houston explained their choice: "It looks a bit like pi and is the Greek 't,' so fits well with the idea of turn. (Since tau is used in angles you can talk about one quarter turn and so on.)"
Pi is too ingrained in our culture and our math to succumb to tau overnight, but the movement pushes ever onward. "Change will be incremental," Houston said.


Apparently, the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter is less useful, important, and elegant than the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its radius. I was hoping to have a discussion about the pros and cons both in terms of pure mathematics, and from a perspective of different disciplines that use pi.

To give a bit of perspective as a physics dude, 2*pi comes up way more than pi in most physics that I've studied. Having a new constant, such as tau, theoretically would simplify a lot of the mathematics done when using formulas.

Some math/physics arguments I've thought to include (both for and against):

  • Area of a circle, instead of being pi*r^2 would be (tau/2)*r^2
  • e^(i*pi)=..., euler's equation, would now be e^(i*tau/2)=... I guess
  • Circumference of a circle would be tau*r
  • Simple Harmonic Motion would have a coefficient of Tau instead of 2*pi
  • A circle would be tau radians instead of 2*pi radians
  • The speed of an object going in a circle would be tau*r/T instead of 2*pi*r/T
  • Etc... could go on and on


What is your take? Should we make a change? Should we leave well enough alone?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
flamekin
Profile Joined April 2010
United States72 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-02 02:35:54
July 02 2011 02:33 GMT
#2
cos tau/8 looks stupid i prefer cos pi/4
and america still uses the imperial system what makes you think we will change to tau lol
L3gendary
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1470 Posts
July 02 2011 02:35 GMT
#3
I say no, just for the sake of Euler's identity.
Watching Jaedong play purifies my eyes. -Coach Ju Hoon
GhostKorean
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States2330 Posts
July 02 2011 02:36 GMT
#4
I really don't see any advantage of using tau over pi, especially since pi is already engrained in our culture. I don't think pi is confusing at all (half pi = quarter circle, it's not difficult if you envision pi as a half circle) There are far more 2pi's than normal pi's in physics but the first time you are exposed to pi is geometry, where the area of a circle is pi*r^2. Teaching it as (1/2)tau*r^2 is harder than teaching 2*pi*r for circumference imo
Cowpieguy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States97 Posts
July 02 2011 02:37 GMT
#5
Just use tau when it makes sense to use it (e.g., for circumference of a circle) and keep using pi when it makes sense to use pi (e.g., for area of a circle). As the article said, you don't have to be anti-pi in order to be pro-tau. We don't have to get rid of pi in order to use tau.
Retgery
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1229 Posts
July 02 2011 02:37 GMT
#6
Kevin Houston, a mathematician at the University of Leeds in the U.K. who has made a YouTube video to explain all the advantages of tau over pi

Does anyone have the link to the video?
Fall down 7 times, stand up 8.
Livelovedie
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States492 Posts
July 02 2011 02:37 GMT
#7
I'm born on pi day, so I want it to stay pi.
GhostKorean
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States2330 Posts
July 02 2011 02:39 GMT
#8
On July 02 2011 11:37 Retgery wrote:
Show nested quote +
Kevin Houston, a mathematician at the University of Leeds in the U.K. who has made a YouTube video to explain all the advantages of tau over pi

Does anyone have the link to the video?

I think it's this
prototype.
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada4215 Posts
July 02 2011 02:39 GMT
#9
pi is fine the way it is.

No need for pi 2.0
( ・´ー・`)
GrapeD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada679 Posts
July 02 2011 02:39 GMT
#10
Its a lot simpler in most cases but I don't think it'll catch on. I mean all it really does is simplify stuff and doesn't really warrant an overhaul of mathematics.
Some people hurt people. I defenestrate those people.
jgoonld
Profile Joined November 2010
334 Posts
July 02 2011 02:40 GMT
#11
Mathematical conventions seem unlikely to change, especially on something as arbitrary as this. I say just introduce tau's definition in early-ish mathematics and allow individuals to use it when appropriate.

In elementary geometry, when learning areas/circumference of circles and such; pi seems to have simpler formulas.
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States556 Posts
July 02 2011 02:41 GMT
#12
:X
As a mathematician, I can say "who cares?" :D
starleague.mit.edu
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
July 02 2011 02:41 GMT
#13
I'd hate to think that people doing advanced mathematics would be helped out a lot by not having to multiply something by 2.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 02 2011 02:41 GMT
#14
I've read this before. It had some very good arguments, to be honest.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
itachisan
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada109 Posts
July 02 2011 02:42 GMT
#15
bleh, i dont see what the big deal is with tau. Yeah sure things might make "more sense" that way, but ppl have been using pi since...ever, kind of hard to change it now.
coplice_
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada128 Posts
July 02 2011 02:42 GMT
#16
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
"the CIA should start using TvT as a torture technique" - telcontar
iamho
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3347 Posts
July 02 2011 02:44 GMT
#17
Fuck no, tau has too many meanings already.
Zealotdriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1557 Posts
July 02 2011 02:44 GMT
#18
Leave it as pi. We'd lose the use of the tau symbol in equations, which would be annoying.
Turn off the radio
Hibzy
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom445 Posts
July 02 2011 02:44 GMT
#19
it was hard enough for me to learn physics as it is, i'd rather not have to learn a whole bunch of new things now
"Uhh, I just have an insanely good sense of fashion." -TLO
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
July 02 2011 02:44 GMT
#20
I feel like the US should make a full switch to the metric system before we consider changing pi.
1 2 3 4 5 16 17 18 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
01:00
#66
SteadfastSC258
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 258
RuFF_SC2 155
ProTech126
Nina 56
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1554
Sea 1291
EffOrt 412
Shuttle 61
Noble 24
Icarus 8
League of Legends
JimRising 659
C9.Mang0490
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv452
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor90
Other Games
summit1g7919
hungrybox1023
WinterStarcraft386
monkeys_forever363
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1279
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH169
• practicex 32
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1587
• Lourlo777
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 48m
RongYI Cup
5h 48m
herO vs Solar
TriGGeR vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
8h 48m
The PondCast
1d 3h
HomeStory Cup
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
HomeStory Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
HomeStory Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-26
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.