EPTEgypt... East Africa.. Greece...
Germany also had to defend Italy in Sicily..
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
Egypt... East Africa.. Greece... Germany also had to defend Italy in Sicily.. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On November 03 2014 12:13 Epishade wrote: Who did worse for their respective sides during WW2: the French, or the Italians? Well, the Italians only lost the war once. The French lost twice, once to each side. And which side was France on anyway? We pretend Allies because Churchill was fond of the bastards (or at least the Anglo-French alliance), but really they did a lot more for the other team. If the French navy had fled to UK ports and rejoined the war, or if the French resistance had been more than like 6 (admittedly badass) guys and gals, then they *might* have a claim to have done better than the Italians, despite how unbelievably quickly their entire army folded in the war's opening. | ||
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macus3699
United States1 Post
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On November 03 2014 14:28 Tephus wrote: Well, Italy kept opening fronts and getting stompted.. and having to ask Germany for help every time. Egypt... East Africa.. Greece... Germany also had to defend Italy in Sicily.. I do not disagree, but saying it out loud without an ability to argue against it is hilarious. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
The blue screen told me a problem occured and I had to restart my computer and it would do something(couldn't tell, pixel'd out) and restart. Could see a percentage rising towards completion and waited until it reached 100%. It reached 100% and now computer is working fine again. The map that caused this was Nexus Wars Pro. Anyone have problems with this map? This was on my Asus Transformer T100 running Windows 8.1.1 | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On November 03 2014 16:36 Yoav wrote: Well, the Italians only lost the war once. The French lost twice, once to each side. And which side was France on anyway? We pretend Allies because Churchill was fond of the bastards (or at least the Anglo-French alliance), but really they did a lot more for the other team. If the French navy had fled to UK ports and rejoined the war, or if the French resistance had been more than like 6 (admittedly badass) guys and gals, then they *might* have a claim to have done better than the Italians, despite how unbelievably quickly their entire army folded in the war's opening. Then again Italy has never won a war except for WW1, and even then it was more like a tie and we just so happened to be on the winning side. We even lost our own indipendence wars, no shit. | ||
zatic
Zurich15355 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Kerm
France467 Posts
On November 03 2014 16:36 Yoav wrote: Well, the Italians only lost the war once. The French lost twice, once to each side. And which side was France on anyway? We pretend Allies because Churchill was fond of the bastards (or at least the Anglo-French alliance), but really they did a lot more for the other team. If the French navy had fled to UK ports and rejoined the war, or if the French resistance had been more than like 6 (admittedly badass) guys and gals, then they *might* have a claim to have done better than the Italians, despite how unbelievably quickly their entire army folded in the war's opening. Strange, I learnt at school France won WWI and WWII, and that the French resistance played an active part to the Libération. But I'm probably misinformed. And believe me, more than "6" members of the Resistance died (after being tortured for many of them) during that period, you could show a little bit of respect to them and they relatives. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
Having its government and army surrender and disband not once, but twice and "winning" once Of course the sacrifices and valor of the free french forces and the resistance are to be celebrated, but the overall French role in the war is something that French state itself has tried to shove under the rug for most of the last century | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On November 04 2014 19:12 Kerm wrote: Strange, I learnt at school France won WWI and WWII, and that the French resistance played an active part to the Libération. But I'm probably misinformed. And believe me, more than "6" members of the Resistance died (after being tortured for many of them) during that period, you could show a little bit of respect to them and they relatives. I have nothing but the utmost respect to the members of the French Resistance. They were badasses to the last, and many of them died heroically fighting the forces of evil. But pretending their story is the national story is disingenuous, and for that matter, disrespectful to them by ignoring to the enormous social barriers and dangers they faced by standing up to the fascists. They were heroes, made more heroic by the fact that their nation had joined the axis cause. Details:+ Show Spoiler + It was in the interests of all Allied powers to pretend France had never fought on the other side, so symbolic measures were implemented to pretend more French agency in liberation (see pretty much every campaign the Free French fought in, most importantly the liberation of Paris). Reasonable estimates put the French Resistance at a mere 10,000 during the height of the war in 1942. Numbers swelled after the allied invasion, predictably. But the highest numbers were 0.5% of population at the end of the war (after allied invasion), and 0.025% during the contested period. For comparison, the Polish, Yugoslav, and Soviet resistances each had around 400,000 active members in 1942-3. So 40x the participation on an absolute basis, and more than that per capita. Pre-war populations of the various countries were roughly: France: 40 M; Poland: 35 M; Yugoslavia: 15 M As a more instructive contrast, in the 1942-3 period, the collaborationist government of France had 150,000 men in arms fighting against the British (and later, US) in North Africa. Over 20,000 French served in Germany's Waffen SS. French warships fought the allies, and its air force supported its ground troops. To the credit of France, the French resistance were particularly good (despite their small numbers) at protecting Jews, contributing to the high survival rate of French Jews during WWII. And nothing I have said takes away from the heroism of those handful of individuals who stood up against the madness of Hitler. The silence of their countrymen as the stood against the darkness makes their deeds of heroism all the more impressive. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9728 Posts
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On November 05 2014 06:35 Jockmcplop wrote: Why did my grandad have to go and support Nottingham Forest, setting into motion a chain of events that would make my weekends mostly miserable? Well, it all starts with Mohammad. He unified the various Arabian tribes, allowing them to get their act together and go conquer their surrounding areas. They did this exceptionally well, and with the wealth of Egypt and Mesopotamia, they were able to keep on pushing both to the east and west. To the east, they eventually ran aground trying to make inroads into India, but they did pretty good establishing dominance over the locals. Some of their traders eventually brought the muslim religion, if not muslim governance, to the island states beyond. To the west, they were stopped on the southern side of the Mediterranean by the nascent French state under Charles Martel. The Byzantine Empire held their advance on the northern side, but was under constant pressure until it finally crumbled in the 15th century. But a few centuries earlier, the Emperor and Patriarch begged the Latin Christian (Catholic) world to get involved on their side of this conflict. The Pope, hoping to take the Holy Land, convert the Muslims/Orthodox, and most importantly get the Europeans to stop killing each other so much, issued a proclamation of a "Crusade," with plenary indulgences attached. Many heard the call, although those who were children or poor folks tended to die before they ever got there. Some actual soldiers/nobles heard the call, and sent armies over to fight against the Saracen enemy. Aided by the general disorganization of the numerically superior Muslim armies, they were able to force a peace where they would hold Jerusalem and its environs. Many of the crusaders then left, and the handful that were left were completely outmatched by the Muslim forces, which eventually got organized under Saladin, who forced them from their newly conquered lands. Other Crusades were called to reconquer the lost land, the most important being the one that brought Richard of England and Philip of France together to fight against the Pagan (yes, they called Muslims "pagans"). After much bickering, they achieved a limited version of their goals. But on the way Richard managed to piss of both Philip as well as the Holy Roman Empire, who incarcerated him on the way home, demanding a literal "king's ransom." His brother John was obliged to pay this, and Richard returned to his domains and spent the rest of his life fighting wars to preserve and expand his lands in France. One day, he was in a battle against a small French castle, where he saw a crossbowman wielding a frying pan as a shield. Richard turned to his men and told them: "That is what courage looks like." The crossbowman hit him. Richard praised the crossbowman, forgiving him and giving him safe passage out. When he died, his men captured the crossbowman and flayed him alive. This left Richard's weak brother John in charge of the kingdom. John's noble opponents slandered him regularly, especially as they were incensed at having to pick up the tab for all of Richard's expenses, which nearly bankrupted the kingdom. One critical piece of propaganda became a legend, about one brave man who stood against John's tyranny, aided only by a handful of merry men. | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On November 04 2014 06:10 3FFA wrote: I tried to try out Nexus Wars Pro and when the menu you can close pops up with a few paragraphs of writing as the game starts(so after the 3 2 1 countdown) my computer got a weird blue screen with pixels messed up, some from sc2 and some from the blue screen. The blue screen told me a problem occured and I had to restart my computer and it would do something(couldn't tell, pixel'd out) and restart. Could see a percentage rising towards completion and waited until it reached 100%. It reached 100% and now computer is working fine again. The map that caused this was Nexus Wars Pro. Anyone have problems with this map? This was on my Asus Transformer T100 running Windows 8.1.1 Sounds like you may have had a hard-disk error that caused the bluescreen which windows attempted to correct before restarting. If you go to "My computer" and right-click your hard-drive > properties>tools(at the top) there should be a 'disk checker' option. Give it a run and see if anything comes up. (I don't have windows 8, my directions are for win7 but I imagine the steps are similar) | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On November 05 2014 06:31 Yoav wrote: I have nothing but the utmost respect to the members of the French Resistance. They were badasses to the last, and many of them died heroically fighting the forces of evil. But pretending their story is the national story is disingenuous, and for that matter, disrespectful to them by ignoring to the enormous social barriers and dangers they faced by standing up to the fascists. They were heroes, made more heroic by the fact that their nation had joined the axis cause. Details:+ Show Spoiler + It was in the interests of all Allied powers to pretend France had never fought on the other side, so symbolic measures were implemented to pretend more French agency in liberation (see pretty much every campaign the Free French fought in, most importantly the liberation of Paris). Reasonable estimates put the French Resistance at a mere 10,000 during the height of the war in 1942. Numbers swelled after the allied invasion, predictably. But the highest numbers were 0.5% of population at the end of the war (after allied invasion), and 0.025% during the contested period. For comparison, the Polish, Yugoslav, and Soviet resistances each had around 400,000 active members in 1942-3. So 40x the participation on an absolute basis, and more than that per capita. Pre-war populations of the various countries were roughly: France: 40 M; Poland: 35 M; Yugoslavia: 15 M As a more instructive contrast, in the 1942-3 period, the collaborationist government of France had 150,000 men in arms fighting against the British (and later, US) in North Africa. Over 20,000 French served in Germany's Waffen SS. French warships fought the allies, and its air force supported its ground troops. To the credit of France, the French resistance were particularly good (despite their small numbers) at protecting Jews, contributing to the high survival rate of French Jews during WWII. And nothing I have said takes away from the heroism of those handful of individuals who stood up against the madness of Hitler. The silence of their countrymen as the stood against the darkness makes their deeds of heroism all the more impressive. Eh, the more and more I learn about France under Nazi occupation, the more and more disappointed I get. Du Gaulle was sure overrated and Mitterrand was a fucking coward who I have nothing but contempt for. The Yugoslavs, Greeks, Albanians, and Chinese on the other hands were sure excellent at what they did. When it comes to resistance, they are the guys who deserve the attention, not the French. In fact, apathy and collaboration was so bad to the point that Jean Paul Sartre criticized the French public for cowardice and expressed the idea that everyone is responsible for the war they get into his philosophy. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
at the end of the day the elites of a conquered country would always put their interests above any 'national' concerns of justice for their people. just look at hong kong right now. | ||
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