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On June 04 2011 01:20 Aldehyde wrote:How so? You're supporting local businesses and it's organic. You're doing more than most. Don't see why you should have to feel dirty just because you're eating meat. Here's a video of how a small local slaughterhouse does its work. Nothing like those sensational videos that always come up in these threads. http://vimeo.com/22077752
They don't show the actual slaughter.
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@zaltz: Could you please stop derailing this thread with your impossible situation that could never happen. It's pointless.
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The last part of my post on page 4 usually gets people angry but now it got ignored and I feel it has good points... Sadface.
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Everyone is entitled to there own opinion, no one is better than anyone else. Eat meat, don't eat meat, don't drink milk... whatever. This thread is basically about a vegan who wants to change peoples views, and it won't work. Just starts arguments, why is this even allowed on this website?
perfectly to the point. but people just love to state their point over and over again in senseless discussions that wont lead anywhere as both their standpoints are valid from their respective positions.
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I don't get the point of this thread. Do you want a flame of vegetarians vs non vegetarians?
I liked the old thread were vegans dicussed their stuff. But this is just a clear provocation and if this becomes a flame it will be deserved. Pretty sad...
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On June 04 2011 01:40 BackHo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 01:20 Aldehyde wrote:How so? You're supporting local businesses and it's organic. You're doing more than most. Don't see why you should have to feel dirty just because you're eating meat. Here's a video of how a small local slaughterhouse does its work. Nothing like those sensational videos that always come up in these threads. http://vimeo.com/22077752 They don't show the actual slaughter.
Wrong. They don't show when they pull the trigger, but that is not really what is important right? (save for that it should be quick). but it is the process leading to the killing that uppsets most people, and here they are, in my opinion, very gentle.
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On June 04 2011 01:40 BackHo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 01:20 Aldehyde wrote:How so? You're supporting local businesses and it's organic. You're doing more than most. Don't see why you should have to feel dirty just because you're eating meat. Here's a video of how a small local slaughterhouse does its work. Nothing like those sensational videos that always come up in these threads. http://vimeo.com/22077752 They don't show the actual slaughter.
Were we watching the same video? They brought the cow in, shot it in the head, it fell to the ground. They brought the pig in, put some electric thing behind its ears, it fell dead to the ground.
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lmao wow I thought this thread was going to be about what you guys eat and just discussing meals and I thought that would be really interesting to read and try out some of them, but oh my god is this pathetic. The whole OP reads like some kind of political propaganda flyer.
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On June 04 2011 01:59 howerpower wrote:
lmao wow I thought this thread was going to be about what you guys eat and just discussing meals and I thought that would be really interesting to read and try out some of them, but oh my god is this pathetic. The whole OP reads like some kind of political propaganda flyer.
veganism vs carnivorism is even worse than religion vs atheism.. it just doesn't seem possible to have a reasonable discussion about it.
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On June 04 2011 02:03 Blix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 01:59 howerpower wrote:
lmao wow I thought this thread was going to be about what you guys eat and just discussing meals and I thought that would be really interesting to read and try out some of them, but oh my god is this pathetic. The whole OP reads like some kind of political propaganda flyer. veganism vs carnivorism is even worse than religion vs atheism.. it just doesn't seem possible to have a reasonable discussion about it.
Well the way I see it is like this - in the religion versus atheism debate, it is clear atheism wins because there is no evidence for God. In the veganism versus meat-eaters thread, veganism is the clear winner because murdering when murdering can be avoided is wrong.
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On June 04 2011 01:40 BackHo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 01:20 Aldehyde wrote:How so? You're supporting local businesses and it's organic. You're doing more than most. Don't see why you should have to feel dirty just because you're eating meat. Here's a video of how a small local slaughterhouse does its work. Nothing like those sensational videos that always come up in these threads. http://vimeo.com/22077752 They don't show the actual slaughter.
So what? We've become so divorced from nature that ludicrous statements like yours actually become an argument.
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On June 04 2011 02:05 BackHo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 02:03 Blix wrote:On June 04 2011 01:59 howerpower wrote:
lmao wow I thought this thread was going to be about what you guys eat and just discussing meals and I thought that would be really interesting to read and try out some of them, but oh my god is this pathetic. The whole OP reads like some kind of political propaganda flyer. veganism vs carnivorism is even worse than religion vs atheism.. it just doesn't seem possible to have a reasonable discussion about it. Well the way I see it is like this - in the religion versus atheism debate, it is clear atheism wins because there is no evidence for God. In the veganism versus meat-eaters thread, veganism is the clear winner because murdering when murdering can be avoided is wrong.
And then a man in a suit comes and gives medals to all of you.
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I don't have a moral issue with killing and eating animals, where do we go from there? I know you do, that's why I don't even bother convincing you that you should eat meat.
This thread is so pointless.
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On June 04 2011 02:05 BackHo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 02:03 Blix wrote:On June 04 2011 01:59 howerpower wrote:
lmao wow I thought this thread was going to be about what you guys eat and just discussing meals and I thought that would be really interesting to read and try out some of them, but oh my god is this pathetic. The whole OP reads like some kind of political propaganda flyer. veganism vs carnivorism is even worse than religion vs atheism.. it just doesn't seem possible to have a reasonable discussion about it. Well the way I see it is like this - in the religion versus atheism debate, it is clear atheism wins because there is no evidence for God. In the veganism versus meat-eaters thread, veganism is the clear winner because murdering when murdering can be avoided is wrong.
Killing animals is not murder. Murder is a legal definition. Not all killings of humans are murder which is why we have distinctions such as manslaughter or self-defense killing. Quit sensationalizing your position.
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Ok here's the thing about these threads.
Meat eaters act all pissed off because of the evangelic ways of some vegans.
But you have no fucking idea how hard it is for vegetarians/vegans. We get preached to every fucking day. Yes every fucking day. It's always how we are gay/women/weak/stupid/going to die/too prechy/hitler.
If you are annoyed at the behavoir of vegans who preach their cause, how about you look at yourself for fucks sake. The other side does far more bitching about it and provoke the discussion that leeds to you saying that vegans are too preachy.
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On June 04 2011 02:13 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 02:05 BackHo wrote:On June 04 2011 02:03 Blix wrote:On June 04 2011 01:59 howerpower wrote:
lmao wow I thought this thread was going to be about what you guys eat and just discussing meals and I thought that would be really interesting to read and try out some of them, but oh my god is this pathetic. The whole OP reads like some kind of political propaganda flyer. veganism vs carnivorism is even worse than religion vs atheism.. it just doesn't seem possible to have a reasonable discussion about it. Well the way I see it is like this - in the religion versus atheism debate, it is clear atheism wins because there is no evidence for God. In the veganism versus meat-eaters thread, veganism is the clear winner because murdering when murdering can be avoided is wrong. Killing animals is not murder. Murder is a legal definition. Not all killings of humans are murder which is why we have distinctions such as manslaughter or self-defense killing. Quit sensationalizing your position.
Killing something for food is one of the most natural things you can do...
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On June 04 2011 02:05 BackHo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 02:03 Blix wrote:On June 04 2011 01:59 howerpower wrote:
lmao wow I thought this thread was going to be about what you guys eat and just discussing meals and I thought that would be really interesting to read and try out some of them, but oh my god is this pathetic. The whole OP reads like some kind of political propaganda flyer. veganism vs carnivorism is even worse than religion vs atheism.. it just doesn't seem possible to have a reasonable discussion about it. Well the way I see it is like this - in the religion versus atheism debate, it is clear atheism wins because there is no evidence for God. In the veganism versus meat-eaters thread, veganism is the clear winner because murdering when murdering can be avoided is wrong.
This pretty much illustrates my point i guess... A reasonable discussion does not start from the assumption that someone who disagrees is per definition wrong, or immoral, imho. (this does seem to come from both ends of the discussion though)
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On June 04 2011 02:05 BackHo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 02:03 Blix wrote:On June 04 2011 01:59 howerpower wrote:
lmao wow I thought this thread was going to be about what you guys eat and just discussing meals and I thought that would be really interesting to read and try out some of them, but oh my god is this pathetic. The whole OP reads like some kind of political propaganda flyer. veganism vs carnivorism is even worse than religion vs atheism.. it just doesn't seem possible to have a reasonable discussion about it. Well the way I see it is like this - in the religion versus atheism debate, it is clear atheism wins because there is no evidence for God. In the veganism versus meat-eaters thread, veganism is the clear winner because murdering when murdering can be avoided is wrong.
By what definition is it murder to catch and eat a fish? Is a fox killing a rabbit murder?
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On June 03 2011 19:27 ComplaiNT wrote:I randomly started to read one.... I got to here: Show nested quote +A related question is: why don’t plants have rights given that they are alive? I think I just died of laughter...
Then I think if I follow the presented logic, you don't have rights.
Djzapz said
The point that I always bring up though is this one - and I don't know if it applies to anyone who's posted in this thread but here goes. To the vegetarians/vegans who take a position where they claim to have the moral high ground, you should consider that you've merely chosen a battle among many. Most of you, in the west, still work and make an amount of money that could easily be qualified as "ridiculous". Here, we live well above "comfort".
While you get out of your way to only eat veggies despite the acquired functions of your digestive system, kids die in Africa and you don't bother to donate very much. Pollution is rampant - you probably drive, maybe short distances when you're lazy like the rest of us. With the money you used to buy that PS3, you could have done so much more...
I agree - eating meat may not be optimal in that it's a shame that animals die - sometimes in very horrible ways that have shaken me up, although that is not the norm. However, as westerners, we do an incredibly amount of "bad" things, and I don't believe that eating meat is a particularly terrible one. Why choose that battle over poverty and diseases in Africa?
I think that most moral arguments from vegetarians and vegans are very, very weak and that's why you guys need to ***appeal to emotion all the time with sick videos*** and weird premises that don't really work. Note that I have basically appealed to emotion in my post (sort of), and it's because I believe this is all the debate really is - for the most part.
While some of this argues from a hypothetical or emotional standpoint and I normally stick to logic solely to defend what I believe, it completely sounds with my point of view. I wish I had some kind of critisism or improvement to add to what you've said but its a excellent representation of my thoughts as well and not only won't I criticize your viewpoint, I'd say that we share the same outlook.
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On June 04 2011 01:40 BackHo wrote:Again you're blinding yourself to economic reality. The number of animals in the world would be drastically reduced BECAUSE of people becoming vegans. Less demand = less supply being produced. As I said - most livestock animals are artificially bred - they do not naturally breed to such an extent in nature. To take an example, sows are kept continually pregnant throughout their six year life cycle - one pregnancy after another, going from sow crate to farrowing crate to sow crate, over and over until they die. In the wild they would generally only get pregnant once or twice, not dozens of times during their lifetime until they die an early death due to the repeated pregnancies. Likewise with cows. Their natural lifespan is up to 30 years yet they usually die after 10 after being forced to be constantly pregnant through artificial insemination. Think about it logically - if you got a human female to give birth every year with no rest in between, she would eventually die early due to exhaustion as well. And all this just to meet human demand for meat.
The number would probably decrease given how it's never going to be as optimal as artificial insemination but like you said, the female cows die in 10 years under artificual insemination. If they live out in the wild it would take upwards of 30 years before they die of a natural death.
How many years before you can begin to expect some serious declines? Maybe 5 years? Maybe 10 years?
Even if it's 5 years you still have the problem of having to take care of billions of cows. That is just saying cows because you also need to take care of pigs, sheeps etc etc etc.
Finally since this would be accompanied by a pro-animal approach you can't leave them in their industrial facilities. You need an immense ammount of open land just to house all these animals in a nice way.
@zaltz: Could you please stop derailing this thread with your impossible situation that could never happen. It's pointless.
Could you not make false accusations? I am simply discussion a situation brought forth by another. You might dislike it but that would be someone from your side of the argument. Direct all those complaints to that person. You need to learn to keep track of who says what and when in a debate.
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EPT
