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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:36 domovoi wrote: Sad to say, but most of us growing up in 1930's Italy would have been all gung-ho for Fascism. Ideology is the same thing as religion. So are you trying to tell me Mussolini making the trains run on time wasn't a big deal? Just for that, pig, I'm calling the secret police. | ||
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JesusOurSaviour
United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
Christians should not force anyone to do anything. Right from creation, right from the very beginning, God gave his children (us), free will to choose to obey, or choose to disobey. By disobeying, we make up our own rules!! (see Devil's conversation with Eve, "Your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil." Ha - this is partially true - you won't "know" good and evil, you will DEFINE it once you reject God) So then, what is the Christian response to Non-Christians? Love them. Did not Jesus say "If you love those who love you, how is that any good? Even the tax-collectors do the same (i.e. even corrupt politicians love their close friends and family). But love your enemies as you love yourself" Yes Tl-ers you are an enemy of the gospel, but what did Jesus say? Love you and serve your needs, so that you may see our love and come to know God. "Shine like lights before men so that they may see your good works and praise your Father who is in heaven." That is all | ||
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TOloseGT
United States1145 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:37 domovoi wrote: Ok, let's say the guy hates religion. I'm sure he would've found it way worse for the commencement speaker to give a 10 minute sermon about how atheists are going to hell. Which is perfectly legal. Well sure, but that's not what happened. | ||
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Olinim
4044 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:39 JesusOurSaviour wrote: Man reading through all these misconceptions has prompted me to clarify some things. Christians should not force anyone to do anything. Right from creation, right from the very beginning, God gave his children (us), free will to choose to obey, or choose to disobey. By disobeying, we make up our own rules!! (see Devil's conversation with Eve, "Your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil." Ha - this is partially true - you won't "know" good and evil, you will DEFINE it once you reject God) So then, what is the Christian response to Non-Christians? Love them. Did not Jesus say "If you love those who love you, how is that any good? Even the tax-collectors do the same (i.e. even corrupt politicians love their close friends and family). But love your enemies as you love yourself" Yes Tl-ers you are an enemy of the gospel, but what did Jesus say? Love you and serve your needs, so that you may see our love and come to know God. "Shine like lights before men so that they may see your good works and praise your Father who is in heaven." That is all Yes, we are surely the ones with the misconceptions... | ||
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domovoi
United States1478 Posts
My point is that sitting through a commencement speech that you strongly disagree with is way worse than sitting through a one minute prayer. Yet somehow it's the innocuous prayer that offends. People against school prayer or the pledge of allegiance are just way too sensitive. Lighten up. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
His argument (I believe), is that people would listen to the sermon, but just because this one was done under the school's name that it must be stopped. Obviously the legal ramifications are different from the eyes of the law. However, from a practical stand point, the difference doesn't exist. | ||
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Olinim
4044 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:42 domovoi wrote: My point is that sitting through a commencement speech that you strongly disagree with is way worse than sitting through a one minute prayer. Yet somehow it's the innocuous prayer that offends. People against school prayer or the pledge of allegiance are just way too sensitive. Lighten up. No, I should not have to utter the words "One nation under God", this is not a nation under God, a nation plagued by God maybe that would be more fitting. | ||
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domovoi
United States1478 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:45 Olinim wrote: No, I should not have to utter the words "One nation under God", this is not a nation under God, a nation plagued by God maybe that would be more fitting. Then don't utter them. It's your right. Or heck, say "one nation plagued by God." | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:45 Olinim wrote: No, I should not have to utter the words "One nation under God", this is not a nation under God, a nation plagued by God maybe that would be more fitting. If plagues consisted of listening to a public prayer that lasts 2 minutes... I'm ok with plagues. | ||
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tGFuRy
United States537 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:39 JesusOurSaviour wrote: Man reading through all these misconceptions has prompted me to clarify some things. Christians should not force anyone to do anything. Right from creation, right from the very beginning, God gave his children (us), free will to choose to obey, or choose to disobey. By disobeying, we make up our own rules!! (see Devil's conversation with Eve, "Your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil." Ha - this is partially true - you won't "know" good and evil, you will DEFINE it once you reject God) So then, what is the Christian response to Non-Christians? Love them. Did not Jesus say "If you love those who love you, how is that any good? Even the tax-collectors do the same (i.e. even corrupt politicians love their close friends and family). But love your enemies as you love yourself" Yes Tl-ers you are an enemy of the gospel, but what did Jesus say? Love you and serve your needs, so that you may see our love and come to know God. "Shine like lights before men so that they may see your good works and praise your Father who is in heaven." That is all Yes sir Amen. (: | ||
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TOloseGT
United States1145 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:42 domovoi wrote: My point is that sitting through a commencement speech that you strongly disagree with is way worse than sitting through a one minute prayer. Yet somehow it's the innocuous prayer that offends. People against school prayer or the pledge of allegiance are just way too sensitive. Lighten up. Again, I must ask you how is it worse than prayer? I know it's worst, according to you. What about the rest of the world? He could have been too sensitive, yes. He could have let it go, definitely. I believe that he should have kept quiet, as he was graduating and probably leaving the town for college anyway. | ||
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MidKnight
Lithuania884 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:39 JesusOurSaviour wrote: Man reading through all these misconceptions has prompted me to clarify some things. Christians should not force anyone to do anything. Right from creation, right from the very beginning, God gave his children (us), free will to choose to obey, or choose to disobey. By disobeying, we make up our own rules!! (see Devil's conversation with Eve, "Your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil." Ha - this is partially true - you won't "know" good and evil, you will DEFINE it once you reject God) So then, what is the Christian response to Non-Christians? Love them. Did not Jesus say "If you love those who love you, how is that any good? Even the tax-collectors do the same (i.e. even corrupt politicians love their close friends and family). But love your enemies as you love yourself" Yes Tl-ers you are an enemy of the gospel, but what did Jesus say? Love you and serve your needs, so that you may see our love and come to know God. "Shine like lights before men so that they may see your good works and praise your Father who is in heaven." That is all "God" also said that it's ok to beat up your slaves to an extent that they can't walk for a couple of days as long as they don't die* Oh, I forgot, you choose to ignore those parts of the bible and only believe the good parts about how believing in Jesus Christ will give you eternal life in heaven. Sorry *Hint: it wasn't actually God | ||
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:36 domovoi wrote: Please, let's not put the law on some pedestal. If the commencement speaker had decided to pray out loud and all the students joined in, that would have been perfectly legal. And exactly the same as a school prayer. Liberalism has as much thought behind it as every other ideology out there: none at all. I agree that liberalism is "better" for society, but this is based on an arbitrarily chosen measure of society that I prefer. Most people support liberalism because that's just the fucking environment they grew up in. Sad to say, but most of us growing up in 1930's Italy would have been all gung-ho for Fascism. Ideology is the same thing as religion. Its not so much putting the law on a pedestal as - the law was put there for a reason. Because stuff like this and far worse happen when RELIGION is on a pedestal (and it is, it really is). You really think following a bronze age mythology book that has the first chunk talking about a god killing millions of people in jealous and spiteful rages, and in the second chunk saying "but he loves you" equates to "lets try making a fair and just society for everyone living in it?" Come on. And you could say exactly the same about conservatism. But at least you cant say liberalism isn't generally racist and non inclusive, and unfair to minorities. Conservatism is obviously much closer to fascism than liberalism is. Seem to shoot yourself in the foot with that analogy. In fact a lot of the things we in the west can be proud of today over the nations in the middle east are due entirely to an increasingly liberal mindset. | ||
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toadyy
United Kingdom179 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
Prayer in school is not okay. The kid's actions were totally justified, however I sincerely doubt he knew he would get the extreme backlash that he did. That makes the story depressing and sad. I don't understand people villifying the kid though. It may have been foolish, but it wasn't wrong. | ||
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Sentient
United States437 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:42 domovoi wrote: My point is that sitting through a commencement speech that you strongly disagree with is way worse than sitting through a one minute prayer. Yet somehow it's the innocuous prayer that offends. People against school prayer or the pledge of allegiance are just way too sensitive. Lighten up. I see it more as defending the constitution rather than attacking the prayer. | ||
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domovoi
United States1478 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:48 TOloseGT wrote: Again, I must ask you how is it worse than prayer? I know it's worst, according to you. What about the rest of the world? Well, would you rather sit through a one minute prayer or a 10 minute sermon talking about you going to hell? I'm pretty sure most people would prefer the former. | ||
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domovoi
United States1478 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:53 Sentient wrote: I see it more as defending the constitution rather than attacking the prayer. The Constitution is just a piece of paper some dead guys wrote over 200 years ago using language so generic it can basically support any political position you wish, including allowing school prayer. Let's not turn law into a religion. | ||
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Sentient
United States437 Posts
On May 28 2011 10:56 domovoi wrote: The Constitution is just a piece of paper some dead guys wrote over 200 years ago using language so generic it can basically support any political position you wish, including allowing school prayer. Let's not turn law into a religion. I don't think anyone is taking a political position. It's a legal position. The constitution of the United States does not allow the endorsement of religion by public schools. This has been affirmed by the Supreme Court. It's a legal argument, not a political, philosophical, or religious one. | ||
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