Alright I am sick of warning people: Trolling, flame baiting, and derailing will result in insta bans. The same goes for conspiracy theorists and stupidity generally.
Confirmation was as follows - On-site DNA test which came back as 99% positive. - photos of face sent to CIA and confirmed with photo analysis - confirmed by 20 year old wife who live in pakistan.
This thread is specifically dedicated to the details surrounding the raid/his death.
On May 02 2011 22:00 Pandain wrote: And when they did come, do you know what Bin Laden did? Grabbed a woman, used her as a shield to save his own skin.
Do you have a source for that claim?
There's a lot of misleading info floating around. A woman was killed, though it's not confirmed that Bin-Laden was the one who used her as a shield. Mainly speculation
On May 02 2011 21:29 Traveler wrote: Patriotism: The belief that going to extraordinary lengths and spending tons of lives in order to retaliate against another group who killed some of your citizens is justified.
In my opinion, the billions could have been spent keeping people alive, and the soldiers that would be alive today could have been spending a nice May sunday with their family, instead of dying in order to support a country's revenge.
OMG NO. You've mistaken patriotism with nationalism. The difference being that patriotism is passive.
Yea he has mistaken Jingoism for patriotism.
That was the joke. Many people think they are being patriots by supporting our military action abroad. I think the USA was a better place pre-WWII, but back then people got mad at this country for being too isolationist.
This thread has gotten really heated. It's good and bad to see.
Still despite what world views one may hold, this man brought this upon himself with the terrible things he did and that should not be forgotten. I hope that nothing horrible comes of this. Too many lives have been lost and too many are continuing to be lost.
What in god's green earth, has the fact that Osama Bin Laden was trained and funded by the U.S government against the russians, got ANYTHING... anything at all, to do with the fact that Bin Laden, is a known terrorist and murderer and is now dead, because of a good NAVY SEALS effort?
That's right, nothing.
Americans aided him in a war between countries /russian, afganistan, this is considered "normal" since war is war..
But being a terrorist and a tyrant at that is an entirely different story..
It's like saying, well, this EX-policeofficer, who turned out to be a serial-killer, was TRAINED by the government to conduct police affairs... o ohh.. so it must be our fault now? We can't be happy that this serial killer is now dead and his reign of terror is over..
Or a U.S soldier who turned out to be a mass murderer. That's HIS fault, his wrongdoings, his crazyness, not the governments fault.
On May 02 2011 22:00 Pandain wrote: And when they did come, do you know what Bin Laden did? Grabbed a woman, used her as a shield to save his own skin.
Do you have a source for that claim?
There's a lot of misleading info floating around. A woman was killed, though it's not confirmed that Bin-Laden was the one who used her as a shield. Mainly speculation
On May 02 2011 21:38 Mooncat wrote: Please people, do everyone here a favor and don't start "the USA saved the world" arguments. It's an incredibly arrogant and presumptuous statement that can only provoke any non American.
Saved? All they saved are they're oil prices. It's sad there are so many people in the world who believe all that bringing democracy bs.
User was temp banned for this post.
I don't know if you know this but gas is $4.15 here... Don't see how that is saving anything.
On May 02 2011 21:38 Mooncat wrote: Please people, do everyone here a favor and don't start "the USA saved the world" arguments. It's an incredibly arrogant and presumptuous statement that can only provoke any non American.
Saved? All they saved are they're oil prices. It's sad there are so many people in the world who believe all that bringing democracy bs.
User was temp banned for this post.
I don't know if you know this but gas is $4.15 here... Don't see how that is saving anything.
like 70% of our gas price is taxes. totally unrelated to anything.
On May 02 2011 22:09 MasterFischer wrote: Help me understand something please...
What in god's green earth, has the fact that Osama Bin Laden was trained and funded by the U.S government against the russians, got ANYTHING... anything at all, to do with the fact that Bin Laden, is a known terrorist and murderer and is now dead, because of a good NAVY SEALS effort?
That's right, nothing.
Americans aided him in a war between countries /russian, afganistan, this is considered "normal" since war is war..
But being a terrorist and a tyrant at that is an entirely different story..
It's like saying, well, this EX-policeofficer, who turned out to be a serial-killer, was TRAINED by the government to conduct police affairs... o ohh.. so it must be our fault now? We can't be happy that this serial killer is now dead and his reign of terror is over..
cmon people now...
It has to do with it because it would have been impossible for Bin Laden/Al-Qaeda to commit their terrorist acts without the original training and funding by the U.S. Your analogy is false because anyone could conceivably commit several acts of murder, but not anyone or any group of people could conceivably plan to hijack several planes and fly them at high 'value' targets and then carry out that plan successfully, furthermore evading capture for a decade.
On May 02 2011 21:38 Mooncat wrote: Please people, do everyone here a favor and don't start "the USA saved the world" arguments. It's an incredibly arrogant and presumptuous statement that can only provoke any non American.
Saved? All they saved are they're oil prices. It's sad there are so many people in the world who believe all that bringing democracy bs.
User was temp banned for this post.
I don't know if you know this but gas is $4.15 here... Don't see how that is saving anything.
like 70% of our gas price is taxes. totally unrelated to anything.
Isn't it part due to EU environment regulations? Don't actually know, but would explain why gas prices in Western Europe are sky high.
On May 02 2011 22:09 MasterFischer wrote: Help me understand something please...
What in god's green earth, has the fact that Osama Bin Laden was trained and funded by the U.S government against the russians, got ANYTHING... anything at all, to do with the fact that Bin Laden, is a known terrorist and murderer and is now dead, because of a good NAVY SEALS effort?
That's right, nothing.
Americans aided him in a war between countries /russian, afganistan, this is considered "normal" since war is war..
But being a terrorist and a tyrant at that is an entirely different story..
It's like saying, well, this EX-policeofficer, who turned out to be a serial-killer, was TRAINED by the government to conduct police affairs... o ohh.. so it must be our fault now? We can't be happy that this serial killer is now dead and his reign of terror is over..
cmon people now...
It has to do with it because it would have been impossible for Bin Laden/Al-Qaeda to commit their terrorist acts without the original training and funding by the U.S. Your analogy is false because anyone could conceivably commit several acts of murder, but not anyone or any group of people could conceivably plan to hijack several planes and fly them at high 'value' targets and then carry out that plan successfully, furthermore evading capture for a decade.
"It has to do with it because it would have been impossible for Bin Laden/Al-Qaeda to commit their terrorist acts without the original training and funding by the U.S"
This is pure speculation, and still it has nothing to do with the events that transpired afterwards. Who knew Bin Laden was gonna be a terrorist leader and a mass murderer?
On May 02 2011 21:38 Mooncat wrote: Please people, do everyone here a favor and don't start "the USA saved the world" arguments. It's an incredibly arrogant and presumptuous statement that can only provoke any non American.
Saved? All they saved are they're oil prices. It's sad there are so many people in the world who believe all that bringing democracy bs.
User was temp banned for this post.
I don't know if you know this but gas is $4.15 here... Don't see how that is saving anything.
like 70% of our gas price is taxes. totally unrelated to anything.
Isn't it part due to EU environment regulations? Don't actually know, but would explain why gas prices in Western Europe are sky high.
I think his location thing just says Germany. $4.15 isn't that uncommon for some places in America right now.
On May 02 2011 21:38 Mooncat wrote: Please people, do everyone here a favor and don't start "the USA saved the world" arguments. It's an incredibly arrogant and presumptuous statement that can only provoke any non American.
Saved? All they saved are they're oil prices. It's sad there are so many people in the world who believe all that bringing democracy bs.
User was temp banned for this post.
I don't know if you know this but gas is $4.15 here... Don't see how that is saving anything.
like 70% of our gas price is taxes. totally unrelated to anything.
That doesn't change the fact that his statement is incorrect...
On May 02 2011 22:09 MasterFischer wrote: Help me understand something please...
What in god's green earth, has the fact that Osama Bin Laden was trained and funded by the U.S government against the russians, got ANYTHING... anything at all, to do with the fact that Bin Laden, is a known terrorist and murderer and is now dead, because of a good NAVY SEALS effort?
That's right, nothing.
Americans aided him in a war between countries /russian, afganistan, this is considered "normal" since war is war..
But being a terrorist and a tyrant at that is an entirely different story..
It's like saying, well, this EX-policeofficer, who turned out to be a serial-killer, was TRAINED by the government to conduct police affairs... o ohh.. so it must be our fault now? We can't be happy that this serial killer is now dead and his reign of terror is over..
cmon people now...
It has to do with it because it would have been impossible for Bin Laden/Al-Qaeda to commit their terrorist acts without the original training and funding by the U.S. Your analogy is false because anyone could conceivably commit several acts of murder, but not anyone or any group of people could conceivably plan to hijack several planes and fly them at high 'value' targets and then carry out that plan successfully, furthermore evading capture for a decade.
"It has to do with it because it would have been impossible for Bin Laden/Al-Qaeda to commit their terrorist acts without the original training and funding by the U.S"
This is pure speculation, and still it has nothing to do with the events that transpired afterwards. Who knew Bin Laden was gonna be a terrorist leader and a mass murderer?
Well, they knew he was going to be a terrorist leader because that is exactly what they were training him to be. Except only the USSR could consider it terrorism.
On May 02 2011 21:38 Mooncat wrote: Please people, do everyone here a favor and don't start "the USA saved the world" arguments. It's an incredibly arrogant and presumptuous statement that can only provoke any non American.
Saved? All they saved are they're oil prices. It's sad there are so many people in the world who believe all that bringing democracy bs.
User was temp banned for this post.
I don't know if you know this but gas is $4.15 here... Don't see how that is saving anything.
like 70% of our gas price is taxes. totally unrelated to anything.
Isn't it part due to EU environment regulations? Don't actually know, but would explain why gas prices in Western Europe are sky high.
I think his location thing just says Germany. $4.15 isn't that uncommon for some places in America right now.
I'm in the US, I use Germany because I lived there for 7 years and it was my favorite place.
On May 02 2011 21:22 demonik187 wrote: So some people in Europe hate America for doing what needs to be done in the world? To those people I say: Get over yourselves. You think we go to war because it's fun? We do it because no one else will. How many times has America saved the world's ass? What do we get for it? Unwarranted hate and criticism. Get off our back or fill the role your selves.
If you want to include bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki as saving the world's ass, then the answer to your question is 'once'.
No some people in Europe hate America because of the Americans sitting on their arses at their computers shouting 'You ungrateful sons of bitches how many times do we have to save the whole world single handedly before we get some respect around here? Remember when George Washington bitch slapped Hitler, in Vietnam? You fuckin' pansies!'
That's you. I am not one of those haters, but god damn son if you really think that then you need to travel more, or something.
(P.S. I, personally, would not include bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 'saving the world's ass' given that the European Axis powers were already defeated)
How about you be mature and ignore the idiots, just like we tend to ignore the patriotic Europeans, especially ones of small nations that have done nothing in the global scheme of things?
wow i just got to love the stupidity that is America
On May 02 2011 21:38 Mooncat wrote: Please people, do everyone here a favor and don't start "the USA saved the world" arguments. It's an incredibly arrogant and presumptuous statement that can only provoke any non American.
Saved? All they saved are they're oil prices. It's sad there are so many people in the world who believe all that bringing democracy bs.
User was temp banned for this post.
I don't know if you know this but gas is $4.15 here... Don't see how that is saving anything.
like 70% of our gas price is taxes. totally unrelated to anything.
People just don't get that this war hasn't been done for the interest of America or the price of Oil but for private interest of members of american administration.
The oil argument is too simplistic. It would be meaningful if really it was a mainly geopolitical conflict. I am afraid it's more about some contracts for some companies linked to some people.
I really hope for Bush administration that the whole "bringing democracy" is indeed bullshit because if they really thought that you bring democracy with bombs tanks and occupying a foreign country, they are just stupid.
I guess Bin Laden death is a "good" thing. I'm not even that sure. Violence leads to more violence, and there is no military way out to this global conflict. They could very well kill every single terrorist on the planet, it wouldn't solve anything really.
I note that many celebrate the death of Usama Bin Laden, rightly so. He was a pile of shit. However the "eye for eye" mentality is detrimental and may cause more lunatics to bring evil to the land of free. I wish America the best but its war on terror has been morally questionable.
The problem lies that u.s start the war on terror cause due to the collapse of world trade center and they all blame bill landen for that.
Now thing is that almost everyone outside u.s ( and many inside ) believes that was a work of the .us government , like it was the uss main incident 100 years ago , the pearl harbor and the vietnam war.
EPT
