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On April 01 2011 00:44 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 00:32 Treemonkeys wrote:On March 31 2011 23:56 Milkis wrote:On March 31 2011 23:30 gongryong wrote:On March 31 2011 23:18 Milkis wrote:
I personally think it's retarded they would bring in politics into the game arena. Leave that kind of stuff outside. It's clear that it's 100% for foreign fans who watch the GSL and honestly it's sad that the SC2 council would approve or even endorse pathetic attempts to spread things around. I would have agreed with these kind of statement if I didnt know the story. Before anyone is a progamer or a doctor or a bum, he is a person with immutable rights. And those rights are exactly what are being fought for here. Was it poor taste? Perhaps. But hey, I can swallow some poor taste over abuse of rights any day! May I recommend to those who don't know what's up here, please refrain from stirring this up. It's a controversial and explosive issue as it is. There is no need to quarterback it on an online community. Thanks. I do know the story behind it. I mean, I'm Korean and I keep up with the news. Yes, it should be worth protesting over. But protesting it during a middle of the match? Why would you do that, especially when all you're trying to do is buy in foreign sympathy? Why cheapen esports on the way of doing so? It's such a bad move and I think it's a terrible, terrible move to turn esports into a place of protest. I hope some japanese guy joins GSL and holds up a sign that says "Dokdo belongs to Japan" when he wins. It's the same fucking thing after all and that is the precedence you are setting when you allow this shit. Wait, so you think it is terrible, but you hope someone does the same thing again just to get back at him? The point is for a Korean it would take something like that to realize how retarded they were for putting up that sign in the first place
Sounds like you just want it to escalate so you can be right.
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East Asian countries have a VERY long history with each other. Japan, China and Korea being the most prominent. Therefore, nationalism is very well alive over there and promt silly debates e.g. over what scripture derived originally from where and what people originally descends from what other country.
We in the West (Europe) live in a post nationalist sociecty and can't really understand anymore how our forefather could get so heated up barely 100 years ago to go to war with eachother devestating all of Europe in WW1. But East Asia is still stuck in this nationalism and thus most political anylists think that East Asia will be the new hot spot of the world in the upcoming century.
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He is having his 5 minutes of fame. I feel why he has everyone's eye's and ears. Let him get his message across. If you want it out of esports then ignore it.
I am sure your favorite actor or musician has done the exact same thing during some speech, concert etc.
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I think that the discussion is being framed in unnecessarily absolute terms. I know that it is exceedingly rare for a political issue to be boiled down to a simple question of "for it" or "against it," but that is what is happening here.
The question isn't whether "politics" have a place in "e-sports." Politics already have a place in e-sports insofar as e-sports is an international project run by humans, the political animals. The real question here is what kind of political expressions we're comfortable seeing and what kinds we're not. But unfortunately the answers to that question is a little too complex to be put into a poll in the OP.
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Dont forget, politics IS sport. Political debate sparks all the same emotions as fans of two different religions or starcraft clubs fighting over who is better, though the
On March 31 2011 21:16 Dystisis wrote:I think it is cool if competitors show that not all they know/care about is the game they are playing, and actually show some passion for the world and state of things in general. However, it really depends. Discriminatory or otherwise obviously alienating views should be left unexpressed by players, unless they don't care if they completely turn off most of their viewers of course. It should be up to them. Show nested quote +Sorry to break it to the 'no' voters, but sport and politics are historically insperable. There are countless examples of this kind of thing, and esports is no different, nor should it be IMO. Why? Sport, and to a lesser extent esport, is a powerful medium watched by millions of people worldwide - what better platform to put a message across? Exactly. So many people from the "new era" of internet and so on have a, in their own eyes, "neutral" view of politics, which is just ridiculous and a-historical. As followers of "esports" and new arenas of entertainment, creativity and expression, we have marginalization in common; I think it would be good if more people showed resistance to that and other types of reactionary attitudes faced by people everywhere. There are fundamentally two different methods of managing property. The economic method, and the political method. Being politically neutral or ignoring politics simply means being against/agnostic toward political method, and concentrating on the economic method instead(which, and not political method has, by the way, created all the wonderful games we love)
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On April 01 2011 01:38 Noxie wrote:
He is having his 5 minutes of fame. I feel why he has everyone's eye's and ears. Let him get his message across. If you want it out of esports then ignore it.
I am sure your favorite actor or musician has done the exact same thing during some speech, concert etc.
Ye. There's a ton of political musicians and bands out there. Some of them make it their job to express their political opinions musically. Manu Chao or Rise Against are extremely clear about which politicians they despise and what kind of laws they'd like to see promulgated (MARIHUANA ILLEGAL DERP DERP). I like both bands even though I can't always agree with their statements. It might bother some people, but I don't care.
Since e-sports is part of the entertainment "community", I don't see the problem there. Sure it's a competitive scene and sure the sponsors might get angry, but people are people and they have opinions. Everyone is always happy to see players show some emotion (which might be the main reason why IdrA is so popular). Now MK expresses a view that makes him more of a character and people complain because they don't agree in this particular case. I don't see the problem.
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Japan12 Posts
How can korean even possibly make any historical remark?
They don't even teach real history at school.
You know in korea, whoever says anything positive about japan is persecuted from the society. They don't even have freedom of speech in this 21st centry
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On April 01 2011 02:06 shinku) wrote:
How can korean even possibly make any historical remark?
They don't even teach real history at school.
You know in korea, whoever says anything positive about japan is persecuted from the society. They don't even have freedom of speech in this 21st centry
I'm just so glad this is a great forums with great mods, so I don't even feel I have to answer to such posts. Otherwise I'd feel I have to.
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It's a discussion about a few rocks and half a person living on it. Out of all things MKP could have done with his time ;/.
Truly policital statements have a place in sports (think apartheid, nazism, etc), but this is just silly. Sports should be a place where people come together, and choosing such a small (and potentially divisive) issue is poor judgement from his side.
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People who watch the GSL or any other sc tournament are doing it because they love starcraft and want to see awesome games. There's no point in bringing in politics because the forum is inappropriate to the message and its a potential source for dividing us politically rather then uniting us in watching our favorite esport.
That's how I feel initially... but then again, MKP is just expressing an opinion here for one millisecond on a piece of paper. The message also seems quite harmless and non-divisive, maybe towards japanese audience? But I guess when the OP was asking the general question I was thinking what if players started wearing T-shirts saying like "MARRIAGE IS FOR ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN!" or maybe "ABORTION IS MURDER!" these messages would just be /facepalm at least for me.
So my answer is: it's fine to express some political thoughts but only very briefly and the content of the message can't be too shocking/divisive.
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They don't allow political messages in other sports or competitions so I don't understand why it should be allowed here.
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I don't care. It's their choice to show their political stance.
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On April 01 2011 02:06 shinku) wrote:
How can korean even possibly make any historical remark?
They don't even teach real history at school.
You know in korea, whoever says anything positive about japan is persecuted from the society. They don't even have freedom of speech in this 21st centry
they teach you that in japan?
maybe 10-20 years ago education was like that in korea, it more relaxed now.
country and race are the worst human inventions ever!
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Not a big deal at all. He held up a sign for all of 5 seconds. The focus of the whole match was SC2. He's just using his platform as a top player to state his opinion. I don't think there's really anything wrong with that.
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So it turns out the message had almost nothing to do with MKP.
Apparently, it's going to appear in all future broadcasts?
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i dont even know why koreans get so passionate about the whole dokdo thing.
its de facto korean territory and thats not gonna change soon... unless japan acts militarily against korean forcibly occupying there, aka never. no matter how much japan is gonna try in disputing it. koreans are just getting trolled if theyre reacting to japan's lul attempt that makes sensational korean headlines.
On April 01 2011 02:14 Derez wrote:
It's a discussion about a few rocks and half a person living on it. Out of all things MKP could have done with his time ;/.
Truly policital statements have a place in sports (think apartheid, nazism, etc), but this is just silly. Sports should be a place where people come together, and choosing such a small (and potentially divisive) issue is poor judgement from his side.
The "few rocks" extend your maritime borders, its fishing rights and natural resources within those borders. And sovereignty issues are always petty unless its your territory involved.
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On March 31 2011 19:46 sqrt wrote:
Do politics have a place in esports?
![[image loading]](http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45938000/jpg/_45938370_jex_387222_de27-1.jpg)
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Politics in sports in general is wrong imo. Especially when players feel strongly about their opinion, they're effectively cutting away a part of their fan base, who are really for the other cause.
Regardless, I doubt that it's increasing the fanbase.
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I think eSports should be kept free of politics and especially religion.
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EPT
