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Please guys, stay on topic. This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On September 13 2013 00:05 farvacola wrote: Your first paragraph is way better than the second. I prefaced it with "tinfoil hat" perspective. Idle curiosity- to the mental exercise end though, do you really think many people are above doing that? People get killed over far less every day. To lighten the mood, a relevant comic: It's from Oatmeal. I'm citing it. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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kemihan
Brazil16 Posts
"Oh, look, they are killing their own people trough torture, pain and agony. What about we simple eradicate them from earth? I don't care if there will be a big amount of innocent people that will die in the process, as long as that "terrorists" that are using the terrible chemical weapons die with them." What's wrong with you people? How can the countries with the resources to change the course of the humanity to a common ground of progress, love, generosity has been leaded to that? Why there are persons that think it's reasonable to fucking bombard another one, killing thousands and thousands in name of "justice", "international laws", "freedom", "democracy" ? Your countries have formed the most brilliant minds in today's society. You have the most advanced research centers and universities like MIT and Harvard. The most advanced technologies in the world, the most advanced knowledge about the human behavior and laws of the universe and still, you persist to conduct the world trough FORCE and KILLING. Please american people, BE THE EXAMPLE TO THE REST OF THE WORLD. Teach the humanity that even thought you have the power to destroy everything, you choose not to, because it's the RIGHT THINK. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On September 13 2013 00:26 JimmiC wrote: Ahh conspricacy theorists. Lets make up something that is at least slightly plausible and then make future decisions and beliefs on this made up "possibility" For your first paragraph. If you make something against the rules there needs to be a penalty when some one does it. Thats true for work, school, parenting as well as international relations. The issue is what is the consequence and who is going to administer it. Most parents don't enjoy spanking there kids but they do it so they learn that what they did is wrong and possibly harmful to themselves, some thinki spanking is too ahrsh and give timeouts, some do both depending on how severe what ever the kid did is. I get this is a very loose analogy. But unless you are argueing that armies should be allowed to use chemical weapons the arguement should not be should the international community do something, but rather what should we do. What gives the maxium punishment to Assad and the minimum to innocent civilians. With out consquences rules simply do not work. I see a lot of Convential is as bad as chemical there for we shouldn't react. But if they are both bad isn't it better to have just convential then both? -2+-2=-4 -2+0=-2 Getting rid of Chemical weapons is a good thing, the last thing we want is these things to become allowed and scientists working on improving them and so forth. So lets concentrate on finding the best way to punish Assad (or the rebels if you belive that, but it's becoming harder to everyday) and make sure it doesn't happen again. You have to *prove*, beyond any doubt, that the Assad regime intentionally attacked this population with a chemical weapons payload. As of right now, you can't do that. There's no ballistic data from a missile, no military shell casing/fragments, no rocket motor, etc. Until you can 100% prove what was done and by whom, you can't start launching "punishments" in the form of very real high explosive missiles. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On September 13 2013 00:59 kemihan wrote: As I read this thread, my hopes that the humanity will thrill to prosperity, peace and harmony is completely destroyed. The amount of people that believes that it's reasonable to enforce your own beliefs in another human being that is living a completely different reality, trough killing, torture, war, instead of education, sharing and a legitimate intention of seeing things by another perspective is disgusting. "Oh, look, they are killing their own people trough torture, pain and agony. What about we simple eradicate them from earth? I don't care if there will be a big amount of innocent people that will die in the process, as long as that "terrorists" that are using the terrible chemical weapons die with them." What's wrong with you people? How can the countries with the resources to change the course of the humanity to a common ground of progress, love, generosity has been leaded to that? Why there are persons that think it's reasonable to fucking bombard another one, killing thousands and thousands in name of "justice", "international laws", "freedom", "democracy" ? Your countries have formed the most brilliant minds in today's society. You have the most advanced research centers and universities like MIT and Harvard. The most advanced technologies in the world, the most advanced knowledge about the human behavior and laws of the universe and still, you persist to conduct the world trough FORCE and KILLING. Please american people, BE THE EXAMPLE TO THE REST OF THE WORLD. Teach the humanity that even thought you have the power to destroy everything, you choose not to, because it's the RIGHT THINK. What part of you thinks the American people support attacking Syria? The latest polls show overwhelming resistance to it. However, we the people have completely lost control of our government, so it might happen anyway. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
You have to *prove*, beyond any doubt, that the Assad regime intentionally attacked this population with a chemical weapons payload. As of right now, you can't do that. There's no ballistic data from a missile, no military shell casing/fragments, no rocket motor, etc. Until you can 100% prove what was done and by whom, you can't start launching "punishments" in the form of very real high explosive missiles. A fine sentiment Perhaps some people would like to learn from your post when it comes to their posts about pipelines and related conspiracy theories I doubt they will though The most advanced technologies in the world, the most advanced knowledge about the human behavior and laws of the universe and still, you persist to conduct the world trough FORCE and KILLING. People like you are so naive it's sad Please american people, BE THE EXAMPLE TO THE REST OF THE WORLD. Teach the humanity that even thought you have the power to destroy everything, you choose not to, because it's the RIGHT THINK. A fine example has been set You can do whatever the fuck you want and get away with it Next time there's a thousand people massacred somewhere in the world and people wring their hands and moan about how awful it is and lash out at humanity or whatever, that's what we've decided acceptable because wah wah wah the US wah wah wah Embrace it, it's a brave new world where Vladimir Putin fascist gay-basher (literally) gets unqualified compliments because he opposes the US Enjoy and embrace the suck | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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farvacola
United States18846 Posts
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On September 13 2013 02:02 DeepElemBlues wrote: The guy you're quoting didn't mention Putin once.Hey look in between asking his interior minister how many gays have been beat up today and ordering a few more journalists arrested, Vladimir Putin took the time to order his propaganda specialists to write an op-ed for useful idiots to drool over. He tells you what you want to hear, you lap it right up, he goes back to being a fascist. A good day for all. A fine sentiment Perhaps some people would like to learn from your post when it comes to their posts about pipelines and related conspiracy theories I doubt they will though People like you are so naive it's sad A fine example has been set You can do whatever the fuck you want and get away with it Next time there's a thousand people massacred somewhere in the world and people wring their hands and moan about how awful it is and lash out at humanity or whatever, that's what we've decided acceptable because wah wah wah the US wah wah wah Embrace it, it's a brave new world where Vladimir Putin fascist gay-basher (literally) gets unqualified compliments because he opposes the US Enjoy and embrace the suck "People like you". Seriously? The guy's post was a somewhat generic plea for peace, as opposed to your generic insulting platitudes about him being naive. The fact that it provokes this kind of response from you is much more telling. Do you feel better, though? | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On September 13 2013 02:16 xDaunt wrote: This thread is a perfect example of why considerations of "morality" in foreign policy are so silly. How many different, competing, contradictory, or mutually exclusive statements are there in this thread regarding what is the "moral" or "right" thing for the US to do given what is going on Syria? I think there's a lot more overlap then you let on, as opposed to mutually exclusive opinions. Maybe we have different opinions on intervention, I think these are differences of degrees, as opposed to something so stark as being "mutually exclusive". Most people, I would hope, would like to see Assad agree to peacefully give up his chemical weapons (assuming he has them), and for the US to avoid military intervention. Of course there are differences in opinion, but I'm not sure why that makes it "silly" for morality to be considered in foreign policies. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On September 12 2013 21:53 zatic wrote: No, that wasn't the question. The question was if WMDs are worse than conventional weapons. Here, this is what I was replying to: I did not mention a strike on Assad at all and never argued for or against it. Just to have it clear, my response was on a 1:1 bases, a death by WMD isn't somehow on another level of murder, hence I don't find the true western way of mass murder much better than that of WMDs(if we're even to ignore chemical usage by the west), nor more controlled for that matter. The civilian deaths (USA has been avoiding by labeling all males between 18-40[or even 15-70] as competants are) gigantic too, just as usage of chemical attacks has been. Don't misunderstand me though, I'm against the usage of WMDs as I dare say most people are. I just don't agree that there is as huge of a difference as you two say there are, killing is killing, and firing bombs _on the same scale_* as the chemical weapons in such a crowded area would've resulted in huge losses of life too. * To be clear, I'm not talking about volume of the gas/bombs but area effected. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
The guy you're quoting didn't mention Putin once. Probably why there wasn't a quote above what I said in regards to Putin People like you are simply amazing sometimes "People like you". Seriously? The guy's post was a somewhat generic plea for peace, as opposed to your generic insulting platitudes about him being naive. What platitude? I called him so naive it's sad That is not generic or a platitude Honestly, smh The fact that it provokes this kind of response from you is much more telling. Do you feel better, though? I never feel good about illiteracy | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 13 2013 02:22 Leporello wrote: I think there's a lot more overlap then you let on, as opposed to mutually exclusive opinions. Maybe we have different opinions on intervention, I think these are differences of degrees, as opposed to something so stark as being "mutually exclusive". Most people, I would hope, would like to see Assad agree to peacefully give up his chemical weapons (assuming he has them), and for the US to avoid military intervention. Of course there are differences in opinion, but I'm not sure why that makes it "silly" for morality to be considered in foreign policies. Here's where the overlap is: I tend to think that acting "morally" when making foreign policy decisions is generally in the best interests of the state. If a state continuously acts "immorally," chances are that it will damage long term relations with other states, thereby worsening its position over the long term. All that I am saying is that the ultimate barometer for foreign policy action should always be national self-interest. | ||
Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On September 13 2013 02:02 DeepElemBlues wrote: Hey look in between asking his interior minister how many gays have been beat up today and ordering a few more journalists arrested, Vladimir Putin took the time to order his propaganda specialists to write an op-ed for useful idiots to drool over. He tells you what you want to hear, you lap it right up, he goes back to being a fascist. A good day for all. Asked about Vladimir Putin's New York Times op-ed, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi took the opportunity Thursday to criticize the Russian president's gay rights record. Putin, Pelosi pointed out, ended his piece with these words: "We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal." "I hope that applies to gays and lesbians, too," Pelosi quipped, likely referencing a new Russian law that bans the promotion of "non-traditional" sexual relationships and has stirred up considerable controversy. Source | ||
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Uvantak
Uruguay1381 Posts
On September 12 2013 21:47 xM(Z wrote: so if the FSA doesn't get the weapons it means the al-qaeda, al-nusra get them? ... No, Al Nusra is part of the FSA, but they are just a sub group of it like groups of christian fighters or groups of Alawite fighters, if they say that the FSA is not getting weapons it means that no rebel group is receiving weapons. On September 12 2013 21:44 REDBLUEGREEN wrote: Really good letter by Putin to the NYTimes. I especially like this paragraph: "The world reacts by asking: if you cannot count on international law, then you must find other ways to ensure your security. Thus a growing number of countries seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction. This is logical: if you have the bomb, no one will touch you. We are left with talk of the need to strengthen nonproliferation, when in reality this is being eroded." It is funny because it was Putin/China the one that put US/NATO in that position. Srsly fuck Putin man, he's the reason why this war can't end today, if Putin stopped helping Assad, Assad would HAVE to give himself to international law otherwise he would get killed with all his family, generals & council when the rebels win the war. I say it again, Fuck Putin. | ||
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farvacola
United States18846 Posts
Deb and Pelosi; now there's a match made in heaven  | ||
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Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
On September 13 2013 02:36 DeepElemBlues wrote: Probably why there wasn't a quote above what I said in regards to Putin People like you are simply amazing sometimes What platitude? I called him so naive it's sad That is not generic or a platitude Honestly, smh I never feel good about illiteracy Offtopic: If you're going to capitalize your sentences better make sure you end them with a period. Illiteracy is indeed annoying. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
On September 13 2013 03:26 Uvantak wrote: No, Al Nusra is part of the FSA, but they are just a sub group of it like groups of christian fighters or groups of Alawite fighters, if they say that the FSA is not getting weapons it means that no rebel group is receiving weapons. I say it again, Fuck Putin. you can say that they fight on the same side but as far as leadership goes, those groups are decentralized. US could arm factions selectively. | ||
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