Thread is about the various issues surrounding Japan in the aftermath of the recent earthquake. Don't bring the shit side of the internet to the thread, and post with the realization that this thread is very important, and very real, to your fellow members.
Do not post speculative and unconfirmed news you saw on TV or anywhere else. Generally the more dramatic it sounds the less likely it's true.
On March 14 2011 14:07 Alshahin wrote: You can't stop the fission. It will remain radioactive and fission will keep going on.
The issue is a chain reaction where the fission of one atom causes the fission of more other atoms. The fuel rods are gone. But when the whole core melts the control rods will also be less effective.
Yes, it is true that you can't stop the fuel from decaying. That is the issue they are dealing with right now, that the decay of the fuel is still causing alot of heat that needs to be redirected.
However from what I understand, with my admittedly limited knowledge of nuclear physics, the fuel elements need a critical number of neutrons to be able to sustain a chain reaction. The control rods, that were put in place very shortly after the earthquake, absorb enough neutrons so that a chain reaction caused by the natural decay of the fuel is not a possibility. They are also pumping in boron with the water to further increase absorption of neutrons away from the core.
Speaking of chain reactions at this point seems to me to be coming up with scenarios that are just simply impossible.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though, as I said this is not really my area of expertise.
By the way are we still open to the idea of holding a charity tournament?
I'll bring it up with the NPO tomorrow if there are people willing to do it. All the proceeds would go straight to the clinic/makeshift hospital in Miyagi I mentioned a few pages back.
I wasn't talking about the situation right now. My issue is an English teacher telling the internet nothing can happen while apparently not understanding the basics.
By definition uranium fuel is enriched. If it isn't enriched, it can't be nuclear fuel. By definition it has the potential for chain reactions. The reaction inside a fission reactor is a chain reaction that is controlled by in this case using fuel rods and control rods.
My point is that if cooling is removed, if control rods no longer operate and if for example no other moderating agent like boron is being used, it is not safe at all and it can become very serious. There is no reason to assume that none of these can't possibly fail. They can.
On March 14 2011 15:36 Alshahin wrote: I wasn't talking about the situation right now. My issue is an English teacher telling the internet nothing can happen while apparently not understanding the basics.
By definition uranium fuel is enriched. If it isn't enriched, it can't be nuclear fuel. By definition it has the potential for chain reactions. The reaction inside a fission reactor is a chain reaction that is controlled by in this case using fuel rods and control rods.
My point is that if cooling is removed, if control rods no longer operate and if for example no other moderating agent like boron is being used, it is not safe at all and it can become very serious. There is no reason to assume that none of these can't possibly fail. They can.
He's an MIT researcher. Did you really read the article properly?
On March 14 2011 15:36 Alshahin wrote: I wasn't talking about the situation right now. My issue is an English teacher telling the internet nothing can happen while apparently not understanding the basics.
By definition uranium fuel is enriched. If it isn't enriched, it can't be nuclear fuel. By definition it has the potential for chain reactions. The reaction inside a fission reactor is a chain reaction that is controlled by in this case using fuel rods and control rods.
My point is that if cooling is removed, if control rods no longer operate and if for example no other moderating agent like boron is being used, it is not safe at all and it can become very serious. There is no reason to assume that none of these can't possibly fail. They can.
no that's wrong. The chain reaction stops itself if those thigns fail. The heat from the Chain-reaction is USED to boil water. That water is used to run turbines, that's how the energy is generated. BUT the chain reaction can't work without water, so if the cooling system is failing because there's no water it shuts down itself, because there's simply no water. If those things fail, the whole thing gets hot and shuts down itself.
I have been using this thread to get news about what has been going on, due to lack of a t.v. I decided to use my first post on team liquid to say that my heart goes out to the Japanese right now. Im sorry for those who have lost friends and family in the Earthquake/Tsunami. Stay strong and i hope everything turns out the best way it can.
On March 14 2011 15:42 Toadesstern wrote: no that's wrong. The chain reaction stops itself if those thigns fail. The heat from the Chain-reaction is USED to boil water. That water is used to run turbines, that's how the energy is generated. BUT the chain reaction can't work without water, so if the cooling system is failing because there's no water it shuts down itself, because there's simply no water. If those things fail, the whole thing gets hot and shuts down itself.
You need to understand that neutrons created in uranium decay have too much energy to split other uranium atoms. When they pass through water they lose energy and can split other uranium atoms. Without the water they will have too much energy, not too little.
On March 14 2011 15:44 dump wrote: Should I start a new thread about the charity tournament idea? Would that go against any rules?
Tournament, meaning sc2 tournament? Yes, make a new thread. I think you could discuss about it with the TL staff. I bet they know pretty much all you need to know about hosting a tournament if you don't.
On March 14 2011 15:44 dump wrote: Should I start a new thread about the charity tournament idea? Would that go against any rules?
Tournament, meaning sc2 tournament? Yes, make a new thread. I think you could discuss about it with the TL staff. I bet they know pretty much all you need to know about hosting a tournament.
Great idea btw, if i got your point.
Cool, I'll do that.
Actually don't credit me; someone else on this thread came up with the idea.
On March 14 2011 15:42 Toadesstern wrote: no that's wrong. The chain reaction stops itself if those thigns fail. The heat from the Chain-reaction is USED to boil water. That water is used to run turbines, that's how the energy is generated. BUT the chain reaction can't work without water, so if the cooling system is failing because there's no water it shuts down itself, because there's simply no water. If those things fail, the whole thing gets hot and shuts down itself.
You need to understand that neutrons created in uranium decay have too much energy to split other uranium atoms. When they pass through water they lose energy and can split other uranium atoms. Without the water they will have too much energy, not too little.
Also, some articles have already been published for those with access to scientific articles.
nah you got me wrong there. I didn't say the energy is rising. I just said how the energy/electricity (!) is created so we can use it, which probably got you confused because you thought I was talking about something else. So basicly what you now said is that you agree to with what I say, that the chain reaction would even stop if they didn't do a damn, because of the lack of water and I just misunderstood what you where saying in the first part? If that's it sry :d
On March 14 2011 16:13 Aurocaido wrote: Al Jazeera reporting that 18,000 people unaccounted for in the Japaneese town of Rikuzentakata. Over half estimated to be dead.
On March 14 2011 15:42 Toadesstern wrote: no that's wrong. The chain reaction stops itself if those thigns fail. The heat from the Chain-reaction is USED to boil water. That water is used to run turbines, that's how the energy is generated. BUT the chain reaction can't work without water, so if the cooling system is failing because there's no water it shuts down itself, because there's simply no water. If those things fail, the whole thing gets hot and shuts down itself.
You need to understand that neutrons created in uranium decay have too much energy to split other uranium atoms. When they pass through water they lose energy and can split other uranium atoms. Without the water they will have too much energy, not too little.
Also, some articles have already been published for those with access to scientific articles.
There are two ways to control the nuclear reactions through the coolant: either with neutron poisons that slows the reaction or neutron moderators that increases the reaction rate.
As I understood it plants are normally built to operate with neutron moderating coolants, thus if you remove some coolant the reaction will slow down. If you remove all coolant the chain reaction will stop. The chain reaction requires the coolant to be there since it is the moderator that keeps it going.
What they have done in the plants in Japan, as far as I can tell, is to replace the normal moderating coolant with water that has boron in it that acts as a neutron poison, slowing decay even further.
Japan's chief cabinet secretary Edano says so far there is no radiation level rise at the Fukushima plant after the explosion, reported earlier. Edano confirms the Fukushima No. 2 reactor cooling functions have stopped, water levels are falling and they are preparing to pour sea water into the No. 2 reactor. -Reuters
On March 14 2011 16:13 Aurocaido wrote: Al Jazeera reporting that 18,000 people unaccounted for in the Japaneese town of Rikuzentakata. Over half estimated to be dead.
Not Minamisanriku?? Fucking hell...
Ya it is looking worse by the hour, it seems initial casualty estimates were quite over optimistic. Not looking forward to the final total.
Seems like "the number two reactor has lost all of it's coolant". says NHK. This means, there might be a explosion soon. Not sure are they talking about Fukushima or something else.
EPT
