On August 24 2011 09:07 Hekisui wrote: Russia and China voted in favour for this anyway. Why did they flip flop? Not to mention they are already lobbying with the NTC. Ooh they love the NTC so much. Ooh they love the Libyan people so much. Now Libyan slaves, give us your oil because otherwise our people will get restless and we can't be dictators anymore either!
I don't believe at any point was there any support whatsoever from Russia or China.
They didn't veto. If Russia and China are such moral authorities and big shots why don't they go stop the bloodshed in Syria and get Assad to step down? Why can't they carry their weight. How are China and Russia any different from Saudi Arabia and to lesser extent the US in the case of Bahrein? Their dictators are just anti revolutionaries because of selfish reasons that have nothing to do with the interests of even their own people.
Failure to veto in no way implies support. Not even remotely. Saying that is like saying failure to donate your money to starving child in Africa is you murdering them. Yeah, you could give money and stop it from happening, but if you're not the one actively killing them, there's a major difference.
On August 24 2011 09:22 GeyzeR wrote: They think that these are acceptable and inevitable losses on the way to democracy...
Which is the greatest evil in the world.
On August 24 2011 09:23 FabledIntegral wrote:
Failure to veto in no way implies support. Not even remotely. Saying that is like saying failure to donate your money to starving child in Africa is you murdering them. Yeah, you could give money and stop it from happening, but if you're not the one actively killing them, there's a major difference.
Yeah it does.
Don't understand the analogy and besides, no analogy is ever going to do anything. You somehow just want to plaster the imagery of your analogy on me, apparently.
SC supported this. China and Russia are not only part of it, they have a veto right. Also, if they didn't want to support it, they would have said they would veto it and it would never be voted on. That they didn't vote in favour of this means nothing. Of course they would never vote for it.
Are you being deliberately ignorant for rhetorical reasons?
On August 24 2011 09:07 BlackAut wrote: Funny thing is, if they are right, and the corporate media is protecting the Western imperialist intervention, how would we know!?!?
be hard on u:
recent example: iraq war, everybody knows it
facist expamles: the burning Reichstag & the Sender Gleiwitz
Current examples: u choose 1 of them
older examples: do history urself
did u know every war was intended? no? research urself ...
Let see I'll go the list for you here.
(1. Funny thing is, if they are right and the corporate media is protecting the Western imperialist intervention, how would we know?!?! Ugh... ok so you know we have these things called cellphones right, and you know we have this thing called facebook,youtube, and other social medias which have been usually giving us most of the things that are going on in Syria,North Korea,Libya,China, and others... hell even satellite phones.... (2. Iraq was a dumb thing for my country to do, but I dont see the money, nor the oil that people claim about that we went to iraq for. (3. Fascist examples that you put above and your point being? Every knows that propaganda happens, but saying that all western media is propaganda is a lie... You know the only thing that most of them can be accused for is this, they love to start drama. So if my government does do something they usually get flamed for it because guess what the media feeds on those things, and they tend to blow it way out of proportion. (4. Maybe you should pick up a book up a history book yourself bro? (5. Did you know every war was intended? no? (Ah no shit... lol maybe your trying to point at some other motive "blowing the whistle bro conspiracy theory inc"
The list go for it would love it, i find its funny.
On August 24 2011 09:10 Saji wrote: Just look at this video, don't listen what the guy is saying, but just look at those people that NATO has bombed those are Libyan suffering! And now tell me what Main stream media channel has reported the suffering of the Libyan people? which one? any pictures? or do you believe there has been no casualties?
PS skip to 1.23
Well, Saji, must say that I do not like this emotional game... Even the most pro western supporter would agree that NATO has killed some children in Libya. And of course the images of the dead bodies are not going to be pleasant. They think that these are acceptable and inevitable losses on the way to democracy...
No thats not the case, the most western people are used to get shit by propaganda, even the case that "oh ony 10 childen gave their lives to protect 10.000.000 folks from tyrrany, even that isn t bought.
Some people really think they got a gain if they conquer a counter after another, its just we wanna spread democracy by bombing it first ...
On August 24 2011 09:17 Hekisui wrote: Gaddafi was a dictator and apparently extremely unpopular.
Apparently. 42 years as the leader of nation, good social standards, 6 months rebels and NATO cannot win there because the national support for Gaddafi surprised maybe Gaddafi himself, distributed weapons among the citizens. Extremely unpopular.
People rose up but he used his own militia and mercenaries to put them down.
Hekisui, do you realize that it is August, not March 2011? mercenaries(black) never confirmed and actually proved to be a lie. mass murders never confirmed and actually proved to be a lie. People rose up and some armed gangs attacked police stations and army bases in Benghazi are not the same, aren't they?
On August 24 2011 09:17 Hekisui wrote: Saji why do you post a random youtube video? Look, both sides killed a lot of people, including civilians. NATO does their bombing. That's going to cause 'collateral damage' no matter what.
All this doesn't support your argument. Gaddafi was a dictator and appealingly very unpopular. People rose up but he used his own militia and mercenaries to put them down. This is nothing amazing since in Syria the same thing is done.
NATO decides to be the air force for the rebels. But, they had SC support thanks to Russia and China. If anything, blame Russia and China.
The collateral damage has been very small compared to Afghanistan. Those larger cases brought up have been proven to be frauds several time.
Stop the conspiracies and clone accounts please.
Look that video was not to proof any point about Gaddafi, I never claimed that.
It was just to point out that the Main stream media will always reports "news" that is in favour of government. (SEE the media coverage "embedded journalism" of Afghan, Irak) IT HASNT BEEN THAT LONG SINCE THAT HAPPENED!! (sorry for the caps (^_^)) A more recent coverage of the MSM was yes do you remember a problem that is still there very big very problematic yes can you remember it??? Probaly not but its Fukushima, Remember how the MSN coverage it? probably not right? you should look it up. The same pattern is and was used through out the past.(Vietnam, Korea, Japan Hiroshima, Afghan, Nicaragua, Chile, Venezuela etc... )
Also you implying that i should be blaming Russia and China is quit preposterous. Are those 2 countries bombing Libya ?
I'm going to go find a bunch of pictures on the internet, and put them into a video, and post them onto youtube, and use RT news also and then say that NATO did all those killings. You really wanna jump onto the well i have pictures /smiles I smart -_- How can you go off saying that all those people in those photos, or RT news is all NATO? (I really hope that you are trolling)....
Also I'm not blaming China or Russia, but I do believe they should lets say "STFU" because they vetoed the resolution that they knew damn well what they voting for. They love to do this "Things go bad, NATO is evil" "Things go good, (nothing) they don't say anything". Also China, and Russia love to not do anything even if mass murder is going on in a country close to them, they don't care all they want is the money which they invested in that country for what ever reasons to make even more money, and also I wouldn't want either of those countries help another country in the first place considering if you look at what Russia did when they invaded Georgia. Oh wait people for about Georgia which happened in the 2000s.
On August 24 2011 09:07 Hekisui wrote: Russia and China voted in favour for this anyway. Why did they flip flop? Not to mention they are already lobbying with the NTC. Ooh they love the NTC so much. Ooh they love the Libyan people so much. Now Libyan slaves, give us your oil because otherwise our people will get restless and we can't be dictators anymore either!
I don't believe at any point was there any support whatsoever from Russia or China.
They didn't veto. If Russia and China are such moral authorities and big shots why don't they go stop the bloodshed in Syria and get Assad to step down? Why can't they carry their weight. How are China and Russia any different from Saudi Arabia and to lesser extent the US in the case of Bahrein? Their dictators are just anti revolutionaries because of selfish reasons that have nothing to do with the interests of even their own people.
Failure to veto in no way implies support. Not even remotely. Saying that is like saying failure to donate your money to starving child in Africa is you murdering them. Yeah, you could give money and stop it from happening, but if you're not the one actively killing them, there's a major difference.
I don't think you need to defend these countries. Russia has a significant weaponsale to Syria and since they feetdragged but eventually accepted to give up their libyan sales they are vetoing any intervention i Syria for economic reasons. China would never want any international intervention anywhere because of the chance of open revolution in their own country, when people find out what is going on. It is a lot easier to just ignore the revolutions when no UN-resolutions supports any kind of intervention and if people in China knew the world would support their calls for democracy, things could get really ugly, really fast.
You are beyond reason. The day the mercenaries appeared on the streets there were pictures.
Also, your post is filled with lies. But that's not strange considering your delusions and sources. Libya standards were bad considering it's oil riches. Gaddafi is a typical dictator that dismantled the social structure of the country and to some extent he had to micromanage everything.
Also your 6 months argument shows great ignorance. You know Libya's military history? No. In this huge country that is 99% desert, citizens defeated well trained and well armed Gaddafi militia in 6 months. This is actually pretty impressive considering they were fighting against a strong 42 year old regime and for a long time it wasn't sure if it was going to succeed. You know, dictatorial regimes have their ways to stay in power. It isn't pretty and using violence against citizens is a method with a a proven track record.
As for mass murders, I don't really know what you talk about. Gaddafi did use artillery and planes against cities. He even admitted this himself and said it was justified because the Americans did the same in Iraq so it was ok.
The one thing you can say is western politicians said it would be a massacre if Gaddafi got in Bengazi. We can't know what would have happened. Certainly he would have crushed it violently. Gaddafi has no moral constrains. This is what the past 42 years show. In the past dictators have killed thousands of citizens in rebellious towns.It might have happened. .
You like dictators. I don't. Fine. But remember that if you are so delusional that you support dictators, you are way too far out to ever recognize and then criticism western imperialism.
On August 24 2011 09:40 BlackAut wrote: the poor libyan ppls were 40 years controlöled by a dictator, now they really better off!
Yeah getting rid of secular rule and replacing it with Sharia law led by Islamic radicals, how awesome!
As a 'militant atheist' I'd say, yes it is. Yes it fucking is. Who are we to say how they rule their country? If they want to live in a fundamentalist islamic failed state, let them.
Also, nothing makes a people secular faster than an Islamic theology. Iranian people are the most pro western in the whole region thanks to the Ayatollas.
This is also the reason why these countries have so many radical islamists. Too many cruel dictators.
But it's still out what actually emerges from Libya. The Iran scenario, the normal people never actually wanted a theological dictatorship. They just got it. You should never support a revolution because you don't know how it would end? How do you think we got a little bit of democracy in the west? It fell out of the sky?
The rebel, identified only as al-Windy, has told Britain's Sky News that he will give the hat to his father:
"I just went inside his room, Gaddafi's bedroom, and I was really, I was like 'Oh my God'. I am in Gaddafi's room. Oh my God. Then this thing happened. I found this, oh my goodness ... I am going to give this to my dad as a present because he has suffered a lot from Gaddafi and from Gaddafi followers ... I am really proud for this moment that the Libyans have waited for 42 years."
A question to people who support NATO actions. What may be the motivation for me, Saji, many others not linked people around the globe for not approving these actions? Are we mad? Paid by Gaddafi? Communists? Just plain stupid?
On August 24 2011 09:40 BlackAut wrote: the poor libyan ppls were 40 years controlöled by a dictator, now they really better off!
Yeah getting rid of secular rule and replacing it with Sharia law led by Islamic radicals, how awesome!
As a 'militant atheist' I'd say, yes it is. Yes it fucking is. Who are we to say how they rule their country? If they want to live in a fundamentalist islamic failed state, let them.
Also, nothing makes a people secular faster than an Islamic theology. Iranian people are the most pro western in the whole region thanks to the Ayatollas.
This is also the reason why these countries have so many radical islamists. Too many cruel dictators.
u surprised that the damn al quida is an american creation (back then gainst the russians) k go check it out, if i lie don t troll me then plx :3
I don't support NATO actions. You are just a complete and utter crackpot.
You are mad.
Tons of people believe in stupid things. 9/11 false flag, aliens visiting earth, oil not being a fossil fuel, moon landing being fake, homeopathy, astrology, religion, paranormal powers, anti science, creationists, etc etc. People are mad because that's what some want to be.
I think this was imperialism by the US, Britain and France. When they started bombing I thought it was a mistake. So far we actually had one of the most pretty scenarios, even though it took a long time.
Now we will see how strong democracy in Libya is, how corrupt the new rulers will be and how imperialistic France, Britain and the US will be.
On August 24 2011 09:48 BlackAut wrote: u surprised that the damn al quida is an american creation (back then gainst the russians) k go check it out, if i lie don t troll me then plx :3
You are an idiot. You think because I do type with interpunction and proper grammar, I don't know basic history? Do you know who Zia ul Haq is?
The US supports regime that are subservient, be them secular or Islamic. The US will oppose regimes that want independence, be them secular or Islamic.
EPT
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