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NASA and the Private Sector - Page 43

Forum Index > General Forum
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Keep debates civil.
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
September 17 2014 02:01 GMT
#841
On September 17 2014 10:23 DragonSharp wrote:
Choosing Boeing is honestly a safer choice and they are the only company that just recently completed all of their milestones. So they're just basically waiting to see if they got the contract.


To be fair SpaceX and Boeing had very different milestones. None of Boeing's milestones involved an actual spacecraft, while one of SpaceX's (missed) milestone was to conduct an in-flight abort of the Dragon V2. SpaceX is further along their development than Boeing, just not as far as they thought they would be.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-17 02:24:13
September 17 2014 02:23 GMT
#842




Boeing is apparently saying they will do a pad abort test in 2016, uncrewed flight in 2017, and finally a manned ISS flight in mid 2017. So yeah...
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
September 17 2014 02:31 GMT
#843
Hmm 3 years is actually pretty good. I assume SpaceX is hyping a faster timeline but I honestly am more confident in Boeing meeting its timeline then SpaceX meeting there timeline.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 17 2014 02:33 GMT
#844
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
September 17 2014 05:08 GMT
#845
About time the US space program starts doing something. It disappoints me how the US couldn't even ferry its own into space.

Boeing is a good choice, it's a large and reliable company. SpaceX is not, and truth be told the biggest thing that has impressed me about it is its CEO's talent for spectacle and bumming government money for unproven, unfeasible ideas. In a perfect world, NASA would built its own rockets, but I guess anything is better than being forced to use someone else's ride.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-17 05:14:54
September 17 2014 05:13 GMT
#846
On September 17 2014 14:08 LegalLord wrote:
About time the US space program starts doing something. It disappoints me how the US couldn't even ferry its own into space.

Boeing is a good choice, it's a large and reliable company. SpaceX is not, and truth be told the biggest thing that has impressed me about it is its CEO's talent for spectacle and bumming government money for unproven, unfeasible ideas. In a perfect world, NASA would built its own rockets, but I guess anything is better than being forced to use someone else's ride.

SpaceX has sent shit to ISS before. Boeing has not...
Solar City is hardly "unproven", it's just solar panels, and solar energy, and Tesla was mostly private venture capital funded, and is now profitable on it's own...

Also, SpaceX was not hinging it's future on getting this contract. This contract was completely a cherry on top for them, their funding by venture capital was not hinged on sending NASA astronauts to ISS.
liftlift > tsm
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-17 05:26:52
September 17 2014 05:25 GMT
#847
Spectacle raises money, and Musk has certainly used that to make a significant fortune for himself that will survive even if all his ventures go up in flames. But I have yet to see anything that does not follow the SV-style "bleed money and gain investment until someone bails you out" strategy. That does not make for a long-term solution, which is what a space program needs.

But subpar is still better than the bottom-tier program we've had for the past 3 years, so it's a step in the right direction. NASA really should be doing this on their own.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
September 17 2014 05:33 GMT
#848
That's literally how almost all serious modern tech companies have started, that's how venture capital works...
liftlift > tsm
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6322 Posts
September 17 2014 11:37 GMT
#849
On September 17 2014 14:25 LegalLord wrote:
Spectacle raises money, and Musk has certainly used that to make a significant fortune for himself that will survive even if all his ventures go up in flames. But I have yet to see anything that does not follow the SV-style "bleed money and gain investment until someone bails you out" strategy. That does not make for a long-term solution, which is what a space program needs.

But subpar is still better than the bottom-tier program we've had for the past 3 years, so it's a step in the right direction. NASA really should be doing this on their own.

Maybe I'm a layman but I don't understand your point. They build rockets and customers buy them. Doomsaying would have looked smart in 2008 when nothing worked and Elon Musk was out of money.

NASA cannot make rockets by themselves... and in recent memory when they try to manage something we ended up with the space shuttle.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12126 Posts
September 17 2014 13:30 GMT
#850
On September 17 2014 14:25 LegalLord wrote:
But subpar is still better than the bottom-tier program we've had for the past 3 years, so it's a step in the right direction. NASA really should be doing this on their own.


NASA has too many vested interests. They have to decentralise things to appease them. They also have to be able to fulfil 23 different criteria whereof only 4 actually matter for the mission at hand. Which is how you got the Space Shuttle.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 17 2014 17:59 GMT
#851
United Launch Alliance (ULA), the nation’s premier space launch company, and Blue Origin, LLC, a privately-funded aerospace company owned by Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos, announced today that they have entered into an agreement to jointly fund development of the new BE-4 rocket engine by Blue Origin. This new collaboration will allow ULA to maintain the heritage, success and reliability of its rocket families – Atlas and Delta – while addressing the long-term need for a new domestic engine.

“This agreement ensures ULA will remain the most cost-efficient, innovative and reliable company launching the nation’s most important national security, civil, human and commercial missions,” said Tory Bruno, president and chief executive officer of ULA. “Blue Origin has demonstrated its ability to develop high-performance rocket engines and we are excited to bring together the best minds in engineering, supply chain management and commercial business practices to create an all-new affordable, reliable, American rocket engine that will create endless possibilities for the future of space launch.”

[image loading]


"ULA has put a satellite into orbit almost every month for the past eight years – they’re the most reliable launch provider in history and their record of success is astonishing,” said Jeff Bezos, founder of Blue Origin. “The team at Blue Origin is methodically developing technologies to enable human access to space at dramatically lower cost and increased reliability, and the BE-4 is a big step forward. With the new ULA partnership, we’re accelerating commercial development of the next great US-made rocket engine.”

The ULA/Blue Origin agreement allows for a four-year development process with full-scale testing in 2016 and first flight in 2019. The BE-4 will be available for use by ULA and Blue Origin for both companies’ next generation launch systems.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-17 20:28:26
September 17 2014 20:25 GMT
#852


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22487 Posts
September 17 2014 20:37 GMT
#853
On September 18 2014 05:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/TheLurioReport/status/512292169840099329

https://twitter.com/TheLurioReport/status/512293986602848256

This is American politics (mostly) we are talking about. Does anyone have any illusions after Boeing threatened a few thousand jobs?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
September 17 2014 23:00 GMT
#854
On September 18 2014 05:37 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2014 05:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/TheLurioReport/status/512292169840099329

https://twitter.com/TheLurioReport/status/512293986602848256

This is American politics (mostly) we are talking about. Does anyone have any illusions after Boeing threatened a few thousand jobs?


NASA has been nothing more than a Jobs Program for Senators since Apollo 11. For as much of the interesting & useful work as they've done, don't think of it as much of anything else. This is how they're funded and pretty much the only reason it was ever kept around.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 18 2014 22:25 GMT
#855
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6322 Posts
September 19 2014 08:43 GMT
#856
Suddenly Boeing is touchy about their beautiful engineering solution when they said earlier they would mothball it without the CCDev contract.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 19 2014 16:58 GMT
#857


NASA's inspector general reported Thursday that the International Space Station will likely cost more to operate over the next decade than officials expect, questioning the orbiting research lab's budget footing as the U.S. government seeks commitments from international partners to extend its lifetime beyond 2020.

The inspector general called NASA's space station cost estimates "overly optimistic" and blamed rising transportation costs for the projected budget growth.

One reason costs are expected to increase is the expense of purchasing rides for astronauts on U.S. commercial crew capsules, which could cost more than the payments NASA is sending to Russia for seats on Soyuz spacecraft, the report said.

"NASA officials expect higher crew and cargo transportation costs to be the main driver of future increases in the cost of the ISS program," the report said, adding the space station's projected transportation costs are "unrealistic."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
iHirO
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1381 Posts
September 20 2014 09:04 GMT
#858
GraphicsThis is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 21 2014 03:43 GMT
#859
Time was, billionaires had no shortage of bling to buy—a yacht here, a Learjet there, a professional football team if you happen to have your Sundays free. But that’s all so yesterday. The must-have, 21st-century toy for the man with real cash to burn is fast becoming a spanking new spacecraft company.

That’s the way is seems at least, with Sir Richard Branson’s Virgin Galactic, Paul Allen’s Stratolaunch Systems, Elon Musk’s SpaceX and, most enigmatically of all, Amazon.com’s Jeff Bezos and his double super-secret, my-lips-are-sealed Blue Origin. While the other boys are anything but press shy, Bezos has kept his operation under a comparative cone of silence. The company is based in Kent, Washington, and while it doesn’t have any actual spaceships yet, it does have a website, some cool graphics and a very nifty coat of arms featuring what appear to be two turtles holding a shield with the Earth below them, the cosmos above and the motto Gradatim Ferociter (by degrees, ferociously) inscribed beneath. Really.

The last few days have been big ones for Bezos, however, with the announcement on Sept. 17 that he was partnering with United Launch Alliance (ULA)—itself a partnership of Lockheed Martin and Boeing—to produce a new engine for ULA’s workhorse Atlas V booster. Currently, ULA uses a Russian-made RD-180 engine in the first stage of the Atlas. That became both politically and logistically untenable last spring, after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Western sanctions against Moscow and an announcement from Russia that it would tighten sales of the engine in retaliation.

So it’s good news that ULA is swapping out its hardware, but huge news—at least judging by the media response—that the universe’s biggest bookseller is part of the deal. The Washington Post—which is owned by . . . oh, let me check my notes. Ah yes, Jeff Bezos—declared the news “a historic partnership between ‘Old Space’ and ‘New Space.’” Bloomberg News and Businessweek, noting the bad blood that has long existed between Musk and Bezos in the race for the high ground, declared it a “battle of the billionaires” and even ran a madcap little graphic showing the two lads jousting on the backs of cartoon rockets, because why not?


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
iHirO
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1381 Posts
September 21 2014 07:09 GMT
#860
GraphicsThis is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?
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