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NASA and the Private Sector - Page 229

Forum Index > General Forum
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Keep debates civil.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 18 2022 00:05 GMT
#4561
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 19 2022 00:56 GMT
#4562
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-12-21 16:23:13
December 21 2022 16:22 GMT
#4563
The US gets more of a monopoly from the EU, who have got to be pissed off when one thinks about it. Sure there will be some firings shortly.

WASHINGTON — The second flight of Arianespace’s Vega C failed to reach orbit Dec. 20 after its second stage malfunctioned, destroying two Pléiades Neo imaging satellites.

The Vega C rocket lifted off at 8:47 p.m. Eastern from Kourou, French Guiana, carrying the Pléiades Neo 5 and 6 imaging satellites for Airbus. The liftoff took place on schedule and the initial phases of flight appeared to go as planned.

However, on-screen telemetry showed that the rocket was deviating the from its planned trajectory within four minutes of liftoff, during the burn of the rocket’s Zefiro-40 second stage. Arianespace said in a later statement that the stage malfunctioned 2 minutes and 27 second after liftoff, seconds after ignition of the stage.

The flight continued for several minutes, including separation of the second stage and ignition of the third stage, as well as payload fairing separation, even as the stage reached an apogee of 110 kilometers and started to descend.

“After the liftoff and the nominal ignition of the P120C, which is the first stage of the Vega, an underpressure has been observed on the Zefiro-40, which is the second stage of the Vega,” Stéphane Israël, chief executive of Arianespace, said on the launch webcast a few minutes later. “After this underpressure, we have observed the deviation of the trajectory and very strong anomalies, so unfortunately we can say that the mission is lost.”

He did not provide additional details about the problem. “We will now have to work with all of our partners to better understand why the Zefiro-40 has not worked properly tonight, triggering the failure of the mission,” he said, apologizing to Airbus Defence and Space, the customer for the launch. Arianespace then terminated the launch webcast.

The launch was the second for the Vega C after a successful inaugural launch of the rocket July 13 carrying a set of institutional payloads. This was the first commercial launch of the Vega C. The launch was postponed from late November because of a problem with the pyrotechnics in the payload fairing separation system.

The Vega C is an upgraded version of the Vega rocket with increased payload performance. Among the changes is the introduction of the Zefiro-40 solid-fuel second stage, which replaced the less powerful Zefiro-23 used on the Vega. Avio is the prime contractor for the Vega C.

The Vega suffered two failures in three launches in 2019 and 2020. A 2019 Vega launch of the UAE’s Falcon Eye 1 imaging satellite failed because of a problem with the thermal protection system on part of the rocket’s second stage. A Vega launch in November 2020 failed when its Avum upper stage tumbled immediately after ignition because of what Arianespace later determined to be improperly connected cables.

The failure of the Vega C deals another blow to European efforts to maintain autonomy in launch. The Vega C was one of the cornerstones of that strategy, along with the still-in-development Ariane 6, with the European Union awarding Arianespace a contract Nov. 29 for five Vega C launches of Sentinel satellites. That contract brought the Vega C backlog to 13 launches, along with two remaining launches of the original Vega.

The launch failure also hurts Airbus, which had counted on the launch to add to its constellation of high-resolution imaging satellites. Pléiades Neo 5 and 6 were similar to the previously launched Pléiades Neo 3 and 4 but included laser links for faster transmission of imagery. An unspecified “equipment issue” with Pléiades Neo 3 led Airbus to file a partial insurance claim after its April 2021 launch. Airbus said the launch of Pléiades Neo 5 and 6 would allow it to work around the issues with Pléiades Neo 3 and meet all its customer commitments.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 29 2022 23:51 GMT
#4564
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 03 2023 14:58 GMT
#4565
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 06 2023 20:00 GMT
#4566
On Wednesday, the Washington-based space company Blue Origin posted a job opening for a position titled "Blue Ring Senior Program Manager." However, the posting to the company's Workday "Careers" page was taken down less than 24 hours later—perhaps because it contained details about an advanced program the company does not yet want to discuss publicly.

Asked about the short-lived post, a Blue Origin spokesperson told Ars on Friday that, "We’re updating the job requisition for this position."

For now, the job posting remains live on LinkedIn. Although the requisition is now listed as "no longer accepting applications," details about the job remain online. Intriguingly, the job posting states, "As the Program Manager, you will lead the development, manufacturing, and operations of a multi-mission, multi-orbit platform."

There are additional clues about the position in the job posting, including the following statement about how this job supports Blue Origin's vision of millions of people living and working in space to benefit Earth: "Enabling this future requires frequent and affordable access to a variety of orbits, as well as ability to access infrastructure and services in those orbits. There is a critical need for rideshare and hosting solutions for small satellites for commercial and government purposes."

The significance of this is that it represents one of the first times the company has publicly discussed its Blue Ring program, albeit perhaps inadvertently given the rapid removal of the job posting.

According to two sources, Blue Ring is one of the projects being worked on at Blue Origin as part of the company's Advanced Development Programs. A number of these initiatives seek to augment Blue Origin's forthcoming New Glenn rocket, a heavy-lift vehicle that may make its debut in 2024. These programs include Project Jarvis, which Ars first disclosed in July 2021, to develop a fully reusable upper stage for the launch vehicle.

Blue Origin has been working on New Glenn for the better part of a decade. During that time, founder Jeff Bezos observed the development of SpaceX's Starship program and recognized that New Glenn must evolve to compete with a fully reusable Starship. That is the purpose of Project Jarvis and other initiatives.

Although Blue Ring is not as spectacular as a fully reusable second stage, it could nonetheless be an important component of making New Glenn a viable commercial vehicle not just for large government satellites but also for smaller satellites. The Blue Ring project combines two basic features: an EELV Secondary Payload Adapter, or ESPA ring, and a space tug.

An ESPA ring is a structure mounted in the payload area of the rocket to support six or more smaller satellites, each perhaps weighing a few hundred kilograms or less. This ring supports these smaller satellites as secondary, or rideshare customers, with power and possibly even propulsion during the launch and deployment process.

[image loading]

Blue Origin also seeks to develop a space tug as part of its ESPA ring, allowing ride-along satellites to reach different orbits than the rocket's primary payload. Such "orbital transfer vehicle" services are increasingly common. For example, Launcher's SN1 Orbiter vehicle flew on SpaceX's Transporter 6 rideshare mission earlier this week with eight different smallsat customers, and Impulse Space announced this week that its first orbital transfer vehicle will fly on a Falcon 9 rocket late this year.

Given that New Glenn will have a large, 7-meter-wide payload fairing and impressive propulsive capabilities, Blue Ring will likely be able to accommodate much larger satellites than these smaller orbital transfer vehicles. However, given Blue Origin's propensity for silence on the advanced developments program, don't expect to hear further details about Blue Ring any time soon.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
BradTheBaneling
Profile Joined October 2018
37 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-01-07 12:48:19
January 07 2023 12:29 GMT
#4567
On September 22 2022 09:21 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2022 12:28 BradTheBaneling wrote:
On September 20 2022 10:53 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
By the time people are allowed on this (another 2-3 years) they'll have done a number of orbital flights and tests. That's all they can do. And seeing as how they'll more than likely get really good data from the first couple, they can find a way to strengthen the tiles themselves, as well as find a good way to secure them beyond what they already have.

Mars is a one way trip for the first 2-3 missions anyway, plus the ships that go with supplies. I don't see them inspecting those ships very much once they get there until everything is built for us to leave the planet. And we'll be dead by then. You also have to remember that there are a lot of private companies building space stations in LEO. What's to stop SpaceX from sending a Crew Capsule up and waiting for them to transfer? The ship then can re-enter on it's own and either land or crash. The people would be safe however. That's one solution (albeit not very financially practical to be losing a $200mil ship (don't know the actual price, SB can fact check me)).

Hell, they could even double sleeve the ship behind the tiles to dampen the pressure and relieve any potential problems if it didn't mess up the mass too much. There are a lot of things we don't know that they've worked on or tried, so we just have to wait and see.


I mean NASA had 135 orbital flights to attempt to resolve it and they had absolutely no success.

I agree with your points about Mars in that you can certainly do it with the current setup even if the heat shield plans for reusability fall through. I just don’t see how SpaceX manages to generate the capital necessary to make it happen without Starship being able to do reentries economically efficiently from the Moon/Orbit.

I suppose there isn’t a really solid answer, however I’m still relatively pessimistic about it; even with the spectacular success of the Falcon 9 - I’m fairly confident a NASA program with the budget of the Space Shuttle wouldn’t have completely failed off the back of an inability to autonomously land a rocket.

It’ll be exciting to see what happens and obviously I hope I’m completely wrong.


But was getting the tiles to be reused every so often their goal? I don't know right off the bat, but I'm sure that after it proved it could withstand reentry, they just made more and took the loss. SpX is in a similar boat. I think they said they want the tiles to be reusable but I don't know for certain. If so, then they'll find a way, like they have with reusing rockets and engines. So again, all we can do is wait. And if the costs of tiles are too high, then they'll just pivot to something else (carbon fiber Starship anyone?)

The capital is already raised. They're the #1 company for launches already. They have billionaires booking private rides and missions on their systems already, not including governments. With Starlink, once that comes down in price and does more coverage, I'm 100% that'll be used to fund it as well. Plus they're not a publicly traded company yet. Once that happens, expect Tesla levels of hype and money to be poured into it (I know I'm getting in on it if I can get the scratch needed for the IPO).

Also, you gotta remember what NASA's mission's were. They weren't trying to advance anything since they already had their vehicle. Same reason why they continued with the antiquated fueling system and design of the SLS. You want innovation, you're gonna be looking for private sector to deliver. Government entities aren't out to waste money (that's Congress' job), they're trying to maximize the little funding they get. I expect NASA to move into a strict supervisory/rules & regulation kinda role here in the near future.


I mean the whole point of the space shuttle was that it should be cheaper per KG to take large payloads up to the ISS and LEO if you had a reusable vehicle that could land on a runway. The fact that the tiles required a full inspection after every single re-entry made that goal entirely unattainable. SpaceX ‘taking the loss’ in this situation is starship is going to be a spectacular failure financially. And uh, the engines and the SRB of the space shuttle were both reused - SpaceX didn’t invent the reuse of engines. Personally, it’s kind of weird to suggest further technologically advanced solutions to the problem, solutions that SpaceX have already stated isn’t going to work.

I mean I’m not so sure the Tesla hype has aged as well at this point. Furthermore all that money in Tesla and what have they managed? Lane keep assist?

Which part of the SLS are you calling antiquated? The fuel used is infinitely more impressive than using RP1 or Methane. The SRB’s are always going to be there because of the US military. Wow, I also wholesale disagree with your comments on the status of NASA in the near future. Notice how for all the complaints about SLS it’s done an orbital flight and Starship is still not that close to attempting an orbital flight - let alone achieving all of their goals with regards to immediately reusable re-entry vehicles.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 08 2023 03:54 GMT
#4568
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-01-09 23:52:21
January 09 2023 20:02 GMT
#4569
Virgin Orbit to launch from the UK. First ever for the country, as well as the company.



edit:
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-01-10 02:21:57
January 10 2023 00:10 GMT
#4570
Starship is fully stacked.



edit: then there was Rocket Lab.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 13 2023 02:21 GMT
#4571
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 16 2023 00:37 GMT
#4572
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 19 2023 02:13 GMT
#4573
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 23 2023 21:28 GMT
#4574
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-01-25 00:55:07
January 24 2023 22:01 GMT
#4575
First US launch for Rocket Lab.



"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 27 2023 16:52 GMT
#4576
Possible 33 engine static fire of Starship next week. Possible being the given word.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 30 2023 20:20 GMT
#4577
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 05 2023 20:21 GMT
#4578
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 08 2023 20:38 GMT
#4579
Possible 33 Engine test fire tomorrow.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9013 Posts
February 08 2023 22:01 GMT
#4580
I'll probably be at work when it happens so I'll miss it. Expect some good links SB!
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