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zeppelin
United States565 Posts
On November 23 2010 10:57 Vanished131 wrote: Heresay. Please post sources or refrain from posting in this thread. http://www.iwpr.org/pdf/C350.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p20-544.pdf http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09279.pdf also "heresay" isn't a word, you would probably get paid more if you knew that | ||
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Cauld
United States350 Posts
On November 23 2010 10:55 Vanished131 wrote: Why do they refrain from requesting one's race then? Wouldn't it just be statistical analysis? You realize something is wrong, and you know it. I would guess, and this is only a guess, that race has very little to do with accident rates. More likely is education level, driving experience, etc. which are questions they do ask. And if some of those things also correlate highly to race then that's a separate issue. | ||
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On topic, I don't think there's anything sexist about unequal insurance rates for the sexes, assuming they make that distinction based on actual statistics rather than anecdotal experience. | ||
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Scorcher2k
United States802 Posts
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Vanished131
France311 Posts
On November 23 2010 10:59 Turbovolver wrote: Men drive more, so pay more for insurance. Say what you want about higher accident rates, that's a point which is up in the air. The interesting point here is that they are not asking for race, but are asking for gender. This isn't really sexism. Sexism - Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women. Discrimination - treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination. Read well. | ||
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Acid~
Thailand442 Posts
On November 23 2010 10:59 Vanished131 wrote: I agree completely. What gives them the right to discriminate against men though? We won't win in court. Women are more likely to recieve custody of children AND recieve alimony; this is known. I'm sure that if a woman forces a man out of his career so that he stays home to raise the kids, he will be the one getting custody and alimony. | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On November 23 2010 11:02 TyPsi5 wrote: Actuarial science. Not sexism. They aren't mutually exclusive. | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On November 23 2010 10:59 Turbovolver wrote: Men drive more, so pay more for insurance. Say what you want about higher accident rates, that's a point which is up in the air. The interesting point here is that they are not asking for race, but are asking for gender. This isn't really sexism. I googled it and found this http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/who-drives-better-men-or-women/ Summary + Show Spoiler + Basically, women only drive 2/3 as much as men, but are about 10% or 15% more likely to be in a crash per mile. Men, however, are 80% more likely to be in an accident that results in a fatality. Women are more likely to hit parked cars or reverse into cars, but men are more likely to be involved in accidents with pedestrians, cyclists, or animals. Men, the author conjectures, are more likely to drive on highways which is considered safer than city driving. So perhaps men aren't really more "safe." Also, in couples, men generally drive. But people are right in asserting it's all based on statistics. It's called actuarial science and involves risk-management. An issue is some sorts of information are impossible to reliably collect at this point, i.e. frequency of driving etc. So it's just based on what they can easily observe, i.e. gender, age, number of previous crashes. But someone brought up a good point about race. Women generally make less than men too, even within some professions (not just across professions, say because women like to be teachers and men like to be engineers or something). So the question of justice is cloudy but they do what's legal to maximize their profit. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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Kamek
Canada22 Posts
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On November 23 2010 11:03 Scorcher2k wrote: It isn't sexism. It is all based on risk assessment. Please look up the definition of sexism. You'll find that being based on risk assessment instead of anger, hate, or factually incorrect information does not exclude something from being sexist. This is basic research people. | ||
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smashczar
Australia2 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/bUhva.jpg) | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On November 23 2010 11:05 Zzoram wrote: Men are way more likely to be in dangerous car accidents, especially men under 25 years. They just drive faster and more aggressively as a group. Higher insurance is fair. Would you agree the same based on racial metrics? Would it be fair to charge different races different rates, as they must have different accident rates? | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On November 23 2010 10:57 Vanished131 wrote: Heresay. Please post sources or refrain from posting in this thread. Not heresy its facts. My source compilation of Biology and psychology with statistics class. | ||
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Vanished131
France311 Posts
On November 23 2010 11:02 zeppelin wrote: http://www.iwpr.org/pdf/C350.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p20-544.pdf http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09279.pdf also "heresay" isn't a word, you would probably get paid more if you knew that This isn't a grammar debate. You started a sentence without capatilizing the first letter. You also have a comma splice in the middle of your sentence, but you would probably get paid more if you knew that. Sources without relevant discussion are worthless. Please revise your post. | ||
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HunterX11
United States1048 Posts
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On November 23 2010 11:03 Cauld wrote: I would guess, and this is only a guess, that race has very little to do with accident rates. More likely is education level, driving experience, etc. which are questions they do ask. And if some of those things also correlate highly to race then that's a separate issue. Race may not have to do with it, but race is correlated with different income levels and education levels. Not because of skin color, but because of history, discrimination, and other social factors. Like the reception certain races face from others, and what the media portrays they are supposed to be like (as well as belonging to a race that is poorer on average means your parents are more likely to be more, again not because of genetics in any way but because of probability). On November 23 2010 11:03 Krigwin wrote: Oh man, and here I came in expecting a write-up on the rise of militant feminism, the social acceptance of misandry, lopsided legal statistics regarding domestic violence, divorce, and custody cases, and the various other societal and cultural difficulties facing young men in western society. Oh well. On topic, I don't think there's anything sexist about unequal insurance rates for the sexes, assuming they make that distinction based on actual statistics rather than anecdotal experience. That's sexist. | ||
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Virtue
United States318 Posts
If they weren't allowed to charge different rates everyone would have either charge everyone very high rates or just not exist (The insurance companies that is. O.O) | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On November 23 2010 11:05 smashczar wrote: This "sexism against men" thing is popping up more and more, it's really dangerous reactionary garbage considering women are the most oppressed and exploited group of people in world history. MY INSURANCE ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/bUhva) This isn't about what was, this is about what is. In this country. I think the Men's Rights movement is going through the same phases that the feminist movement had to go through: being categorized as a bunch of angry losers who are complaining about something that is normal and isn't a big deal. See feminists as "ugly women who can't get a date and hate men as a result and just want to make life hard on men" versus men's rights people as "creepy guys who women won't talk to and are misogynistic as a result, and just want to bring up stupid things." | ||
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nozh
Canada93 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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