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The thrust of this is that insurance companies are there to make money, and they won't do it by being blatantly and needlessly sexist or discriminatory. In fact, flagrant discrimination might result in a devastating lawsuit and a public relations disaster.
As everyone else has been saying, it's actuarial science. Companies will make more money if they manage risks effectively. They look at statistics, and men's overall rates are worse (as many are saying). Men also make significantly more money than do women, so a ten-dollar difference in insurance rates is immaterial.
I wish you luck with your protest to Geico, but I'm telling you now that you really don't have much of a case. There are cases in which sexism is involved, but this isn't one of them.
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My friends girlfriend got in a car accident cause she said she was looking at the pet store.
............?
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I would be interested in seeing how exactly they determine these statistics. How many men drive in comparison to woman? How recent are the statistics, does it include info just on the last 10-20 years, or 50-60 years? I don't know if I would classify this as sexism, but I think it's a little out of hand.
As a personal example I would have to pay $2000 more a year for insurance than my sister if we both got our own insurance (as of now I'm co-signed under my parents since it's cheaper); I have 4 more years driving experience and have never been involved in an accident meanwhile my sister has been driving for less than 6 months.
Why is the difference so large? And does anyone know if there is any amount of government control over insurance companies and if there isn't should there be? After all, insurance is required. I don't really know where I stand on the issue since I'm always wary of government involvement when it comes to these things, but its worth considering.
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On November 23 2010 11:12 Ancestral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 11:06 cz wrote:On November 23 2010 11:05 Zzoram wrote:
Men are way more likely to be in dangerous car accidents, especially men under 25 years. They just drive faster and more aggressively as a group. Higher insurance is fair. Would you agree the same based on racial metrics? Would it be fair to charge different races different rates, as they must have different accident rates? Zzoram I feel you're making that up. I think that might be part of it, but to paint a simple picture without at least observational research, if not experimental research, and the creation of some kind of regression to isolate correlations it's useless. Or even a source who already did the work for you. And cz, I wouldn't agree that different races are more aggressive or drive faster, but as mentioned above other factors due to the current socioeconomic distribution of different races will lead to a whole slew of identifiable statistical differences. But the genetic difference between races is insignificant, and I could provide sources if you really wanted, or you could get on Wikipedia or Google. Not that I'm suggesting you're saying it's genetic. And also, all the insurance rates are based on STATISTICS ONLY. So again, it has nothing to do with why, just the numbers. Like BNet 0.2 ranking, only win/loss, not APM, game knowledge, etc. matter.
Sources please.
My point was that it would be illegal to discriminate based on race, but it's allowed based on sex. Both are protected traits under the law.
Anyway the reason that insurance rates are legally sexist is because of money: it'd take a lot of push to get the politicians to go against the money and lobbyists that the insurance companies are giving, and that push isn't there. Yet.
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On November 23 2010 11:08 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 11:04 cz wrote:On November 23 2010 11:02 TyPsi5 wrote:
Actuarial science. Not sexism. They aren't mutually exclusive. Indeed. I.Q Tests in the past have "scientifically proven" women and certain ethnicities to be dumber than caucasian males. Science isn't always objective.
The IQ tests could be racially biased themselves. But it's also absurd to claim that discrimination in the past (and present) has not led to a multitude of problems for various races now. If a schoolteacher pays less attention to a poor black child because she believes he has little potential, he will end up being less successful than otherwise.
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File a lawsuit, this is blatant sexism.
The insurance companies that discriminate ethnicity, sex, or anything that a customer cannot change because they were BORN with that category might have STATISTICAL (NOT SCIENCE DIPSH*TS) data to help them make a profit, but it's still unfair, immoral, and illegal.
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On November 23 2010 11:14 Z3kk wrote:
The thrust of this is that insurance companies are there to make money, and they won't do it by being blatantly and needlessly sexist or discriminatory. In fact, flagrant discrimination might result in a devastating lawsuit and a public relations disaster.
As everyone else has been saying, it's actuarial science. Companies will make more money if they manage risks effectively. They look at statistics, and men's overall rates are worse (as many are saying). Men also make significantly more money than do women, so a ten-dollar difference in insurance rates is immaterial.
I wish yo luck with your protest to Geico, but I'm telling you now that you really don't have much of a case. There are cases in which sexism is involved, but this isn't one of them.
It is sexist BY DEFINITION. I understand actuarial science and how it determines rates based on risk, but that doesn't mean it isn't sexist. Or that it's not wrong.
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On November 23 2010 11:11 Vanished131 wrote:
My insurance is very low actually. This is not a material debate; it's a social debate that concerns all of us.
Go look at the quotes for your own car insurance, sometimes the difference is more than $10, it can be hundreds or thousands.
it would have been very difficult to pick a more trivial perceived social injustice to get upset about
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On November 23 2010 11:15 AAtwelve wrote:
File a lawsuit, this is blatant sexism.
The insurance companies that discriminate ethnicity, sex, or anything that a customer cannot change because they were BORN with that category might have STATISTICAL (NOT SCIENCE DIPSH*TS) data to help them make a profit, but it's still unfair, immoral, and illegal.
LOL
This is a troll, but it's an awesome one.
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On November 23 2010 11:12 domovoi wrote:
They also discriminate based on income, school grades, where you live, how much you drive, whether or not you've had traffic violations, etc.
I think the OP is a bit silly for claiming its sexism per se. At the same time, they don't charge people of different races different premiums do they? I'm pretty sure statistically there are differences in the rate of accidents between ethnicities, but the insurance companies won't adjust for that right?
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On November 23 2010 11:15 AAtwelve wrote:
File a lawsuit, this is blatant sexism.
The insurance companies that discriminate ethnicity, sex, or anything that a customer cannot change because they were BORN with that category might have STATISTICAL (NOT SCIENCE DIPSH*TS) data to help them make a profit, but it's still unfair, immoral, and illegal.
Statistics is science, and it's completely fair to do this whether it's based on ethnicity or sex. People aren't genetic copies of each other.
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On November 23 2010 11:08 nozh wrote:
Nevermind the hundreds of years of exploitation that women have faced.... What those crazy feminazis don't understand is that MY INSURANCE is more important. Can I get a HELL YEAH, BROS?????????
Stop acting like an idiot.
Past misdeeds do not justify present or future ones. We could just as easily open this can of worms with affirmative action or parts of Title IX, but that would go beyond the scope of this thread. Suffice to say, you have no ground to stand on.
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On November 23 2010 11:04 cz wrote:They aren't mutually exclusive.
I didn't say they were, but you're going to have a hard time showing sexism is the cause when there is a lot of data backing up the position that (young) men are typically worse drivers.
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On November 23 2010 11:16 chevron wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 11:12 domovoi wrote:
They also discriminate based on income, school grades, where you live, how much you drive, whether or not you've had traffic violations, etc. I think the OP is a bit silly for claiming its sexism per se. At the same time, they don't charge people of different races different premiums do they? I'm pretty sure statistically there are differences in the rate of accidents between ethnicities, but the insurance companies won't adjust for that right?
they charge me more because i live in an urban area with lots of dangerous minorities who might jack my stereo, is that racist of them and should i be outraged by it
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On November 23 2010 11:10 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 11:08 nozh wrote:
Nevermind the hundreds of years of exploitation that women have faced.... What those crazy feminazis don't understand is that MY INSURANCE is more important. Can I get a HELL YEAH, BROS????????? We are talking about now. Here. Now. And while you are trying to lampoon men as angry people calling women feminazis, you are inadvertently revealing yourself as the same: someone with a lot of anger towards a movement that wants gender equality.
Gender equality is women getting paid the same as men.
Gender equality is not being questioned or ignored or humiliated when coming forward about being raped or sexually assaulted.
Gender equality is not having domestic violence be the number one cause of injury to women.
You make me sick. Don't compare your bullshit hardships to what women have gone through and still go through.
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but it's still unfair, immoral, and illegal.
How is it unfair to pay more for being statistically more likely to require higher insurance payouts?
In fact, it seems charging women and men the same price would be discrimination against women. They would be subsidizing us.
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On November 23 2010 11:16 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 11:15 AAtwelve wrote:
File a lawsuit, this is blatant sexism.
The insurance companies that discriminate ethnicity, sex, or anything that a customer cannot change because they were BORN with that category might have STATISTICAL (NOT SCIENCE DIPSH*TS) data to help them make a profit, but it's still unfair, immoral, and illegal. LOL This is a troll, but it's an awesome one.
No, this is a troll:
![[image loading]](http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3332/urgip.jpg)
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On November 23 2010 11:16 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 11:15 AAtwelve wrote:
File a lawsuit, this is blatant sexism.
The insurance companies that discriminate ethnicity, sex, or anything that a customer cannot change because they were BORN with that category might have STATISTICAL (NOT SCIENCE DIPSH*TS) data to help them make a profit, but it's still unfair, immoral, and illegal. Statistics is science, and it's completely fair to do this whether it's based on ethnicity or sex. People are genetic copies of each other.
You don't get it. Saying that actuarial science or statistics or whatever means that it would make sense for insurance companies to charge higher rates for men (because they statistically cost more $ in claims) doesn't mean it's justified to do so as a result of discrimination based on sex (sexism). There's a difference between wanting to and being allowed to (and being justified in).
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On November 23 2010 11:17 nozh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 11:10 cz wrote:On November 23 2010 11:08 nozh wrote:
Nevermind the hundreds of years of exploitation that women have faced.... What those crazy feminazis don't understand is that MY INSURANCE is more important. Can I get a HELL YEAH, BROS????????? We are talking about now. Here. Now. And while you are trying to lampoon men as angry people calling women feminazis, you are inadvertently revealing yourself as the same: someone with a lot of anger towards a movement that wants gender equality. Gender equality is women getting paid the same as men. Gender equality is not being questioned or ignored or humiliated when coming forward about being raped or sexually assaulted. Gender equality is not having domestic violence be the number one cause of injury to women. You make me sick. Don't compare your bullshit hardships to what women have gone through and still go through.
There's a term for this, but I can't think of it. Attempting to trivialize something because something else exists somewhere that's worse is a despicable practice.
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EPT
