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On November 11 2010 16:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 16:17 lvatural wrote:On November 11 2010 16:05 Whiladan wrote:On November 11 2010 16:03 lvatural wrote:On November 11 2010 15:56 Whiladan wrote:On November 11 2010 15:41 Djzapz wrote:On November 11 2010 15:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 11 2010 15:23 Djzapz wrote:On November 11 2010 14:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 11 2010 14:00 MiniRoman wrote:
[quote]
You sound like an annoying pedophile to me. I don't consider any sexual act relating to children "innocent". They may not be rapists but that's not an act if innocence.
edit: so let me ask you, don't find anything sinister about the desires of pedophiles? Not every pedophile is the same. I consider the desire and intent to molest a pre-pubescent child sinister and wrong. I do not consider it wrong to merely be attracted to children. Thoughts and feelings don't harm children. Child molesters do. Thoughts don't necessitate action. Go ahead and write me off as an annoying pedophile but at least understand something before you decide to hate it. Pretty ballsy stance to take... And while I don't see any flaws in the argument, it still feels wrong  That people shouldn't be persecuted for their thoughts and feelings? Damn I'm edgy No I mean I understand your point - when I say it still feels wrong, it's because of my perception of it... No, it's not your perception of it. It's because the attraction of an adult to a non-adult is morally wrong on all levels. Think of it this way. I'm having a conversation with your grandfather (substitute grandfather for your 6 year old daughter). While talking with your grandfather (daughter), I am consumed with the desire to stick my knife (penis) inside him (her). The only thing that stops me is societal perceptions of right and wrong and the resulting repercussions of my actions. I might be a perfectly functional member of society, but my homicidal tendencies still make me a disgusting person. I'd disagree. IMO you'd actually be a pretty righteous persons to be able to stop your potentially murderous (pedophilia) act simply because you knew it was the morally wrong thing to do. I'd hardly call restraining your basic instincts that violate your higher moral principles as a disgusting thing to do. I would say seeking mental help is more righteous than not raping a kid because you're afraid of getting caught. Pedophiles aren't morons dude. I'm sure they understand the reason why pedophilia action is harmful to the victim, but sexual attraction isn't something that you can just flip with logical reasoning. I mean could you just rationalize yourself to suddenly flip from fucking women to men? Or how about kids? They're trapped in a situation that they were simply unfortunate to be born into. You've got to give 'em some sympathy when you come at it from that angle. Try to be a bit more open about the situation than just going straight for condemnation. no they're amoral psychopaths who only behave out of fear of societal retribution /sarcasm
No, they're martyrs, born into a world where they prove their stoic heroism day-by-day by refraining from fucking their next door neighbor's daughter. /sarcasm
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On November 11 2010 16:19 News wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 16:13 Hanners wrote:On November 11 2010 16:04 tbrown47 wrote:On November 11 2010 15:54 Hanners wrote:
So you're presumption of a sexual interaction is that a "relationship" needs to be in place or a feeling of "love." Your experience is not everyone's experience. try to keep that in mind when making posts about how people are or should be. If there is no "relationship" taking place, then the adult is taking advantage of the child even more so, wouldn't you say? I was inferring that a relationship had to take place because if there was no relationship then there would be no argument. The adult is taking advantage of the child, period. If the adult actually loves the child and wants to be faithful to the child... then I feel a lot less disgusted, because the adult actually loves the child. A one night stand with a child who is prepubescent and has no clue what is going on is fucking disgusting. You're not giving the younger member in the interaction any credit. I was very much interested in being shown sexual things before I had started puberty because I was curious. I typically wondered about my teachers, myself. I'm positive I was in 8th grade and I used to get raging hard-ons looking at my teachers tight breasts and ass. I pretty much knew what sex would look like if I were to get some and I would be the happiest guy at school if that teacher slipped my dick inside her for just a few seconds.
I'm not talking about 8th grade here, I'm talking about when a child is mentally competent or not. 8th grade is what? 14 years of age? Notice why movie ratings have PG-13? 14 is the age where children actually begin to mature. Its around the age you enter high school, etc. I could fathom a 14 year old child willingly have sex, but an 8 year old? No.
When I am talking about pedophilia I am thinking anything under 10, 11, etc.
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The book sounds disgusting but if we were to ban it on those grounds then we should also ban Mein Kampf and thousands of other unwholesome books. There are a lot of books that the world is probably better off without but the problem is once you start banning it can become difficult to draw a line and stop- you'd get people wanting to ban any book that contained any reference to homosexuality or socialism for example.
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On November 11 2010 16:23 Whiladan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 16:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 11 2010 16:17 lvatural wrote:On November 11 2010 16:05 Whiladan wrote:On November 11 2010 16:03 lvatural wrote:On November 11 2010 15:56 Whiladan wrote:On November 11 2010 15:41 Djzapz wrote:On November 11 2010 15:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 11 2010 15:23 Djzapz wrote:On November 11 2010 14:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
[quote]
Not every pedophile is the same. I consider the desire and intent to molest a pre-pubescent child sinister and wrong. I do not consider it wrong to merely be attracted to children.
Thoughts and feelings don't harm children. Child molesters do.
Thoughts don't necessitate action. Go ahead and write me off as an annoying pedophile but at least understand something before you decide to hate it. Pretty ballsy stance to take... And while I don't see any flaws in the argument, it still feels wrong That people shouldn't be persecuted for their thoughts and feelings? Damn I'm edgy No I mean I understand your point - when I say it still feels wrong, it's because of my perception of it... No, it's not your perception of it. It's because the attraction of an adult to a non-adult is morally wrong on all levels. Think of it this way. I'm having a conversation with your grandfather (substitute grandfather for your 6 year old daughter). While talking with your grandfather (daughter), I am consumed with the desire to stick my knife (penis) inside him (her). The only thing that stops me is societal perceptions of right and wrong and the resulting repercussions of my actions. I might be a perfectly functional member of society, but my homicidal tendencies still make me a disgusting person. I'd disagree. IMO you'd actually be a pretty righteous persons to be able to stop your potentially murderous (pedophilia) act simply because you knew it was the morally wrong thing to do. I'd hardly call restraining your basic instincts that violate your higher moral principles as a disgusting thing to do. I would say seeking mental help is more righteous than not raping a kid because you're afraid of getting caught. Pedophiles aren't morons dude. I'm sure they understand the reason why pedophilia action is harmful to the victim, but sexual attraction isn't something that you can just flip with logical reasoning. I mean could you just rationalize yourself to suddenly flip from fucking women to men? Or how about kids? They're trapped in a situation that they were simply unfortunate to be born into. You've got to give 'em some sympathy when you come at it from that angle. Try to be a bit more open about the situation than just going straight for condemnation. no they're amoral psychopaths who only behave out of fear of societal retribution /sarcasm No, they're martyrs, born into a world where they prove their stoic heroism day-by-day by refraining from fucking their next door neighbor's daughter. /sarcasm
Hey, what if neither of those things were the case !?
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Are books that instruct people how to make bombs legal? This is no different.
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On November 11 2010 16:24 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 16:19 News wrote:On November 11 2010 16:13 Hanners wrote:On November 11 2010 16:04 tbrown47 wrote:On November 11 2010 15:54 Hanners wrote:
So you're presumption of a sexual interaction is that a "relationship" needs to be in place or a feeling of "love." Your experience is not everyone's experience. try to keep that in mind when making posts about how people are or should be. If there is no "relationship" taking place, then the adult is taking advantage of the child even more so, wouldn't you say? I was inferring that a relationship had to take place because if there was no relationship then there would be no argument. The adult is taking advantage of the child, period. If the adult actually loves the child and wants to be faithful to the child... then I feel a lot less disgusted, because the adult actually loves the child. A one night stand with a child who is prepubescent and has no clue what is going on is fucking disgusting. You're not giving the younger member in the interaction any credit. I was very much interested in being shown sexual things before I had started puberty because I was curious. I typically wondered about my teachers, myself. I'm positive I was in 8th grade and I used to get raging hard-ons looking at my teachers tight breasts and ass. I pretty much knew what sex would look like if I were to get some and I would be the happiest guy at school if that teacher slipped my dick inside her for just a few seconds. I'm not talking about 8th grade here, I'm talking about when a child is mentally competent or not. 8th grade is what? 14 years of age? Notice why movie ratings have PG-13? 14 is the age where children actually begin to mature. Its around the age you enter high school, etc. I could fathom a 14 year old child willingly have sex, but an 8 year old? No. When I am talking about pedophilia I am thinking anything under 10, 11, etc.
When I was only about six I had an older female neighbor (about 11 I think) who wanted to experiment. It went from kissing to genital touching to getting completely naked and lying on top of each other. Now, I might not have had the lust of an adult but I definitely remember finding the experience pleasurable.
Genital pleasure starts from a very early age. I believe in some cultures the mothers give/gave blowjobs to their infant sons to help them sleep.
I'm not saying this is any justification for paedophilia, but that it's not true that children don't find any pleasure in genital stimulus.
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I think they should just follow the law regarding this stuff...
Doesn't make it any less disgusting.
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On November 11 2010 15:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:57 LunarC wrote:
Pedophiles need a kick in the face. No matter how they disguise or characterize their behavior, the bottom line is that they are looking for a relationship that is neither reciprocated nor legitimate in any way. The case is that:
a) They cannot handle a mature lovers' relationship for some reason.
b) Children are much less independent and are more easily influenced than adults are.
c) Pedophiles project their frustration by convincing themselves that children will fill their need.
d) They convince themselves that children possess the maturity and mental age necessary for a healthy lovers' relationship.
e. Hence, they think that their relationship is legitimate and are no longer morally bounded.
Which is physiologically never, never the case. a, c, d, and e are untrue i can tell you that straight up right now thoughts don't necessitate action. not every pedophile is looking for a relationship with your local 6 year old girl. not every pedophile is unable to function in a relationship with an adult or even unwilling to. this is all pure bullshit.
It's the thoughts that define whether you're a pedophile or not, in my opinion. Never said that they're unwilling to function in a relationship with an adult, it's just that they try to justify their "relationships" with children. Sorry if I didn't nail the pedophile's mentality, I'm not a pedophile.
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Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children:
There should be no coercion
The child should be free to stop at any moment
Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child
The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship
The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13]
Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives.
Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex.
Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship.
Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia:
Consent of both child and adult
Openness towards the parents of the child
Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment
Harmony with the child's development
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On November 11 2010 16:30 tomatriedes wrote:
When I was only about six I had an older female neighbor (about 11 I think) who wanted to experiment. It went from kissing to genital touching to getting completely naked and lying on top of each other. Now, I might not have had the lust of an adult but I definitely remember finding the experience pleasurable.
That is the problem that I(and presumably most people against it) have with it, though. : /
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There are limits even to free speech.
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Damn this thread moves fast.
I can't wait for a beastiality book next.
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On November 11 2010 16:32 LunarC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 11 2010 15:57 LunarC wrote:
Pedophiles need a kick in the face. No matter how they disguise or characterize their behavior, the bottom line is that they are looking for a relationship that is neither reciprocated nor legitimate in any way. The case is that:
a) They cannot handle a mature lovers' relationship for some reason.
b) Children are much less independent and are more easily influenced than adults are.
c) Pedophiles project their frustration by convincing themselves that children will fill their need.
d) They convince themselves that children possess the maturity and mental age necessary for a healthy lovers' relationship.
e. Hence, they think that their relationship is legitimate and are no longer morally bounded.
Which is physiologically never, never the case. a, c, d, and e are untrue i can tell you that straight up right now thoughts don't necessitate action. not every pedophile is looking for a relationship with your local 6 year old girl. not every pedophile is unable to function in a relationship with an adult or even unwilling to. this is all pure bullshit. It's the thoughts that define whether you're a pedophile or not, in my opinion. Never said that they're unwilling to function in a relationship with an adult, it's just that they try to justify their "relationships" with children. Sorry if I didn't nail the pedophile's mentality, I'm not a pedophile.
It's fine.
Not all pedophiles are in a relationship with children or intend to be. Plenty of pedophiles are willing readily to admit that child molestation is wrong.
What adult man can be intellectually and emotionally stimulated by a 10 year old girl? I mean really? That's on a whole different level from simple attraction. In fact it's those pedophiles that talk about their beautiful platonic relationships with children who are sooooo mature and elegant that creep me out the most.
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It's legal for any business not to sell the book. The government can't ban it or arrest those who read it, but no business is required to sell a product in the name of "free speech".
But the thread has changed into something else entirely. A conversation I feel is going to just go nowhere.
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On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote:Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile. Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat. What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you? It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes. Show nested quote +In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children:
There should be no coercion
The child should be free to stop at any moment
Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child
The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship
The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval Show nested quote +About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13]
Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives.
Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex.
Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship.
Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets. Show nested quote +More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia:
Consent of both child and adult
Openness towards the parents of the child
Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment
Harmony with the child's development
I really hope your not trying to make an argument for pedophilia with these wack studies man. Its just not right.
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Damn this thread moves fast.
I can't wait for a beastiality book next.
User was warned for this post
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if amazon carries "decision points" by george w bush (detailing war crimes and torture) then it should have no problem carrying a book detailing lesser crimes
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On November 11 2010 16:33 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 16:30 tomatriedes wrote:
When I was only about six I had an older female neighbor (about 11 I think) who wanted to experiment. It went from kissing to genital touching to getting completely naked and lying on top of each other. Now, I might not have had the lust of an adult but I definitely remember finding the experience pleasurable.
That is the problem that I(and presumably most people against it) have with it, though. : /
Then you should try getting over it? *I* don't even have the lust of "an adult" in my sexual interactions.
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Giving out a manual on how to commit a crime (and not get caught) I feel will make the previously too nervous to act pedophiles take the plunge into indulging themselves with criminal behavior.
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EPT
