On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
I really hope your not trying to make an argument for pedophilia with these wack studies man. Its just not right.
Elaborate how those studies are "wack", because they are accurate or because you are uniformed? I cannot argue against ignorance because its a brick wall. Either do the reading or do not post.
On November 11 2010 17:27 Throllax wrote:
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
You sir, are the sort of stain on society that keeps these monsters from being locked away for good. Children, contrary to whatever warped view on reality you may believe, do not have the cognitive reasoning of an adult mind. Their mind at pre-teen age is still vulnerable, even 'innocent', and very open to suggestion.
You've pulled out these 3 crack-job professors as examples to say that somehow, a child is fully capable of educated consent at pre-teen age? They're probably kiddie touchers themselves. How about you take a look at, oh, say the explanatory memoranda of every child-protection legislation in the world - you'll find it packed full of real, sane professionals who've actually studied the psychology of children.
Let's put this into a practical example. Your uncle comes to see you when you are 6 years old, you're playing with your toys and racing cars in your bedroom (by your reasoning, something every grown adult does too). He asks you if you want to do something fun. Being an innocent child, you say yes. He proceeds to touch you in innappropriate places (of course, appropriate by your meaning), and does things to you...well, we all know where this is going. On what whacked planet you live on is that ok? Just because that 6 year old said 'yes', somehow it's alright because 'children have the power to regulate their own sexuality'?
I advise you talk to some victims of pedophilia and sexual abuse. I doubt they'll see it the same way as you do.
You disgust me mate.
Ad hominem.
Also I don't judge you but feel free to judge me because I did some research.
As has been stated above pedo laws exist for a reason. It is UNREASONABLE to expect a child (by the legal definition) to make decisions about their sexuality. Children are not adults by any stretch, and to imagine that since some psychologist laid down some thoughts on how a child-adult sexual relationship should work children suddenly can think and reason like adults its ludacris.
sex is only a big deal because society says so. there is no reason sex should take any decision making or reasoning or maturity, not for an adult, not for anyone.
that said, society does place this bias on sex and right or wrong it exists and thus sexual interaction can damage a child (or adult) emotionally or mentally. it is for this reason only ("consensual") sexual contact with a child should be illegal. any form of child molestation should obviously be illegal.
this is not terribly relevant however. pedophilia does not imply sex or sexual contact.
edit* heh, dh, you don't have to be a pedophile to follow that logic.
This is true but it's only an argument I've seen pedophiles bother to make.
On November 11 2010 17:45 Hanners wrote: I'm going to turn this into a real hornet's nest by positing a suggestion:
If we weren't told that sexual interaction between adults and children was wrong, would this be an issue?
Like, say a child did experience semi-regular sexual interactions with an adult(s).
Is an adult who engages in sexual activity with a child necessarily using them for sex? How do we know that they're aren't doing it solely for the benefit and pleasure of the child?
No they are engaging in a human relationship.
We don't know because whenever we try to do anything of the sort we cut to the parents crying on CNN then we read what the viewers have to say. The whole state of humanity is a fucking disaster.
You act as if pedophilia was ok before CNN and "read what the viewers have to say". Why do you think those parents are against it? Maybe because as parents they understand the vulnerability of a child and that children should not be subjected to this sort of interaction?
I have to wonder who is better at understanding children that those who raise them. There is plenty of acutal scientific research to support the fact that children are generally more open to suggestion by adults than other adults+ Show Spoiler +
Fifty-four children (33 girls and 21 boys), 4 to 6 years old, participated in an experiment examining the effects of leading interviews on their interpretations and factual recall of an interaction with a teaching assistant (TA). Children were either familiar or unfamiliar with the TA and were interviewed in either an incriminating or a neutral manner. In comparison with neutral-interview children, incriminating-interview children made more cued-recall errors and endorsed more biased interpretations of the TA's actions. Familiarity with the TA had limited effects on free recall and interpretations of the TA's actions and had no effect on cued recall. Results indicated that 4- to 6-year-olds will produce misleading reports about their interactions with either familiar or unfamiliar adults when they are promoted to do so by an opinionated adult interviewer. Distorting Children's Reports and Interpretations of Events Through Suggestion, Stephen J. Lepore, a, and Barbara Sescoa
along with the very severe psychological trauma that does occur after children suffer sexual abuse. + Show Spoiler +
Children and the law: the essential readings By Ray Bull
Its absurd to lump pedophilia with hating or generating legislation against people of a different religion or race. Its also a very, very large jump from stopping two consenting ADULTS from forming a relationship to trying to argue that children have enough cognitive prowess to fully understand a sexual relationship and to objectively understand their relationship with adults.
On November 11 2010 17:48 Clues wrote: Wait so Carefoot, you are for seducing children for sexual pleasure? Or just that if you can desire it, it should happen?
Do you draw a line? What about mentally handicapped people? What group (if any) do you think actually deserves legal protections from sexual predators?
My line is different then the one in this forum. Society should have less not more rules.
The emotions of the ignorant man are continuously kept at a pitch by the most blood-curdling stories about pedophilia. Not a thing too outrageous to be employed against this philosophy and its exponents. Therefore it represents to the unthinking what the proverbial bad man does to the child, -- a black monster bent on swallowing everything; in short, destruction and violence.
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
I really hope your not trying to make an argument for pedophilia with these wack studies man. Its just not right.
Elaborate how those studies are "wack", because they are accurate or because you are uniformed? I cannot argue against ignorance because its a brick wall. Either do the reading or do not post.
On November 11 2010 17:27 Throllax wrote:
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
You sir, are the sort of stain on society that keeps these monsters from being locked away for good. Children, contrary to whatever warped view on reality you may believe, do not have the cognitive reasoning of an adult mind. Their mind at pre-teen age is still vulnerable, even 'innocent', and very open to suggestion.
You've pulled out these 3 crack-job professors as examples to say that somehow, a child is fully capable of educated consent at pre-teen age? They're probably kiddie touchers themselves. How about you take a look at, oh, say the explanatory memoranda of every child-protection legislation in the world - you'll find it packed full of real, sane professionals who've actually studied the psychology of children.
Let's put this into a practical example. Your uncle comes to see you when you are 6 years old, you're playing with your toys and racing cars in your bedroom (by your reasoning, something every grown adult does too). He asks you if you want to do something fun. Being an innocent child, you say yes. He proceeds to touch you in innappropriate places (of course, appropriate by your meaning), and does things to you...well, we all know where this is going. On what whacked planet you live on is that ok? Just because that 6 year old said 'yes', somehow it's alright because 'children have the power to regulate their own sexuality'?
I advise you talk to some victims of pedophilia and sexual abuse. I doubt they'll see it the same way as you do.
You disgust me mate.
Ad hominem.
Also I don't judge you but feel free to judge me because I did some research.
As has been stated above pedo laws exist for a reason. It is UNREASONABLE to expect a child (by the legal definition) to make decisions about their sexuality. Children are not adults by any stretch, and to imagine that since some psychologist laid down some thoughts on how a child-adult sexual relationship should work children suddenly can think and reason like adults its ludacris.
sex is only a big deal because society says so. there is no reason sex should take any decision making or reasoning or maturity, not for an adult, not for anyone.
that said, society does place this bias on sex and right or wrong it exists and thus sexual interaction can damage a child (or adult) emotionally or mentally. it is for this reason only ("consensual") sexual contact with a child should be illegal. any form of child molestation should obviously be illegal.
this is not terribly relevant however. pedophilia does not imply sex or sexual contact.
edit* heh, dh, you don't have to be a pedophile to follow that logic.
This is true but it's only an argument I've seen pedophiles bother to make.
Me thinks you don't spend much time around fetishists?
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
I really hope your not trying to make an argument for pedophilia with these wack studies man. Its just not right.
Elaborate how those studies are "wack", because they are accurate or because you are uniformed? I cannot argue against ignorance because its a brick wall. Either do the reading or do not post.
On November 11 2010 17:27 Throllax wrote:
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
You sir, are the sort of stain on society that keeps these monsters from being locked away for good. Children, contrary to whatever warped view on reality you may believe, do not have the cognitive reasoning of an adult mind. Their mind at pre-teen age is still vulnerable, even 'innocent', and very open to suggestion.
You've pulled out these 3 crack-job professors as examples to say that somehow, a child is fully capable of educated consent at pre-teen age? They're probably kiddie touchers themselves. How about you take a look at, oh, say the explanatory memoranda of every child-protection legislation in the world - you'll find it packed full of real, sane professionals who've actually studied the psychology of children.
Let's put this into a practical example. Your uncle comes to see you when you are 6 years old, you're playing with your toys and racing cars in your bedroom (by your reasoning, something every grown adult does too). He asks you if you want to do something fun. Being an innocent child, you say yes. He proceeds to touch you in innappropriate places (of course, appropriate by your meaning), and does things to you...well, we all know where this is going. On what whacked planet you live on is that ok? Just because that 6 year old said 'yes', somehow it's alright because 'children have the power to regulate their own sexuality'?
I advise you talk to some victims of pedophilia and sexual abuse. I doubt they'll see it the same way as you do.
You disgust me mate.
Ad hominem.
Also I don't judge you but feel free to judge me because I did some research.
As has been stated above pedo laws exist for a reason. It is UNREASONABLE to expect a child (by the legal definition) to make decisions about their sexuality. Children are not adults by any stretch, and to imagine that since some psychologist laid down some thoughts on how a child-adult sexual relationship should work children suddenly can think and reason like adults its ludacris.
sex is only a big deal because society says so. there is no reason sex should take any decision making or reasoning or maturity, not for an adult, not for anyone.
that said, society does place this bias on sex and right or wrong it exists and thus sexual interaction can damage a child (or adult) emotionally or mentally. it is for this reason only ("consensual") sexual contact with a child should be illegal. any form of child molestation should obviously be illegal.
this is not terribly relevant however. pedophilia does not imply sex or sexual contact.
edit* heh, dh, you don't have to be a pedophile to follow that logic.
This is true but it's only an argument I've seen pedophiles bother to make.
Me thinks you don't spend much time around fetishists?
I suppose not? I don't remember any fetishists I've been in contact with recently.
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
I really hope your not trying to make an argument for pedophilia with these wack studies man. Its just not right.
Elaborate how those studies are "wack", because they are accurate or because you are uniformed? I cannot argue against ignorance because its a brick wall. Either do the reading or do not post.
On November 11 2010 17:27 Throllax wrote:
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
You sir, are the sort of stain on society that keeps these monsters from being locked away for good. Children, contrary to whatever warped view on reality you may believe, do not have the cognitive reasoning of an adult mind. Their mind at pre-teen age is still vulnerable, even 'innocent', and very open to suggestion.
You've pulled out these 3 crack-job professors as examples to say that somehow, a child is fully capable of educated consent at pre-teen age? They're probably kiddie touchers themselves. How about you take a look at, oh, say the explanatory memoranda of every child-protection legislation in the world - you'll find it packed full of real, sane professionals who've actually studied the psychology of children.
Let's put this into a practical example. Your uncle comes to see you when you are 6 years old, you're playing with your toys and racing cars in your bedroom (by your reasoning, something every grown adult does too). He asks you if you want to do something fun. Being an innocent child, you say yes. He proceeds to touch you in innappropriate places (of course, appropriate by your meaning), and does things to you...well, we all know where this is going. On what whacked planet you live on is that ok? Just because that 6 year old said 'yes', somehow it's alright because 'children have the power to regulate their own sexuality'?
I advise you talk to some victims of pedophilia and sexual abuse. I doubt they'll see it the same way as you do.
You disgust me mate.
Ad hominem.
Also I don't judge you but feel free to judge me because I did some research.
As has been stated above pedo laws exist for a reason. It is UNREASONABLE to expect a child (by the legal definition) to make decisions about their sexuality. Children are not adults by any stretch, and to imagine that since some psychologist laid down some thoughts on how a child-adult sexual relationship should work children suddenly can think and reason like adults its ludacris.
sex is only a big deal because society says so. there is no reason sex should take any decision making or reasoning or maturity, not for an adult, not for anyone.
that said, society does place this bias on sex and right or wrong it exists and thus sexual interaction can damage a child (or adult) emotionally or mentally. it is for this reason only ("consensual") sexual contact with a child should be illegal. any form of child molestation should obviously be illegal.
this is not terribly relevant however. pedophilia does not imply sex or sexual contact.
edit* heh, dh, you don't have to be a pedophile to follow that logic.
You mean other than the numerous studies that show this type of behavior exhibited upon children is psychologically damaging? You can't just say all the myriad of psychological issues abused children face is because society told them what happend was wrong. Thats simply not true.
You mean other than the fact that sex's primary goal is to produce children? That children giving birth to children is not good?
The reason sex needs decision making is its effect goes way beyond the temporary sensations while its occurring.
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
I really hope your not trying to make an argument for pedophilia with these wack studies man. Its just not right.
Elaborate how those studies are "wack", because they are accurate or because you are uniformed? I cannot argue against ignorance because its a brick wall. Either do the reading or do not post.
On November 11 2010 17:27 Throllax wrote:
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
You sir, are the sort of stain on society that keeps these monsters from being locked away for good. Children, contrary to whatever warped view on reality you may believe, do not have the cognitive reasoning of an adult mind. Their mind at pre-teen age is still vulnerable, even 'innocent', and very open to suggestion.
You've pulled out these 3 crack-job professors as examples to say that somehow, a child is fully capable of educated consent at pre-teen age? They're probably kiddie touchers themselves. How about you take a look at, oh, say the explanatory memoranda of every child-protection legislation in the world - you'll find it packed full of real, sane professionals who've actually studied the psychology of children.
Let's put this into a practical example. Your uncle comes to see you when you are 6 years old, you're playing with your toys and racing cars in your bedroom (by your reasoning, something every grown adult does too). He asks you if you want to do something fun. Being an innocent child, you say yes. He proceeds to touch you in innappropriate places (of course, appropriate by your meaning), and does things to you...well, we all know where this is going. On what whacked planet you live on is that ok? Just because that 6 year old said 'yes', somehow it's alright because 'children have the power to regulate their own sexuality'?
I advise you talk to some victims of pedophilia and sexual abuse. I doubt they'll see it the same way as you do.
You disgust me mate.
Ad hominem.
Also I don't judge you but feel free to judge me because I did some research.
As has been stated above pedo laws exist for a reason. It is UNREASONABLE to expect a child (by the legal definition) to make decisions about their sexuality. Children are not adults by any stretch, and to imagine that since some psychologist laid down some thoughts on how a child-adult sexual relationship should work children suddenly can think and reason like adults its ludacris.
sex is only a big deal because society says so. there is no reason sex should take any decision making or reasoning or maturity, not for an adult, not for anyone.
that said, society does place this bias on sex and right or wrong it exists and thus sexual interaction can damage a child (or adult) emotionally or mentally. it is for this reason only ("consensual") sexual contact with a child should be illegal. any form of child molestation should obviously be illegal.
this is not terribly relevant however. pedophilia does not imply sex or sexual contact.
edit* heh, dh, you don't have to be a pedophile to follow that logic.
You mean other than the numerous studies that show this type of behavior exhibited upon children is psychologically damaging? You can't just say all the myriad of psychological issues abused children face is because society told them what happend was wrong. Thats simply not true.
You mean other than the fact that sex's primary goal is to produce children? That children giving birth to children is not good?
The reason sex needs decision making is its effect goes way beyond the temporary sensations while its occurring.
I'd say the majority of sex that is happening in the world right now is not for producing children but is for pleasure. Temporary sensations would be a great way to describe what may or may not be occurring in your brain right now. I see everyone doing the ad hominem so I thought I'd do some of my own.
Also now that it's off Amazon you can be sure as hell its for free being traded around.
So well done. If there was ever a book you'd want to keep for sale and track with the arguments I read in this thread, you all lose.
On November 11 2010 17:48 Clues wrote: Wait so Carefoot, you are for seducing children for sexual pleasure? Or just that if you can desire it, it should happen?
Do you draw a line? What about mentally handicapped people? What group (if any) do you think actually deserves legal protections from sexual predators?
My line is different then the one in this forum. Society should have less not more rules.
That is such a cop out.
You wouldn't consider the centuries of cultural evolution occurring all over the world coming to a nearly unanimous decision that pedophilia is wrong a solid force for good in the world? The weather beaten rule, forged over all this time of human evolution and creation is don't fuck with children. I hope you don't think your new line of thinking is new or revolutionary.
On November 11 2010 17:45 Hanners wrote: I'm going to turn this into a real hornet's nest by positing a suggestion:
If we weren't told that sexual interaction between adults and children was wrong, would this be an issue?
Like, say a child did experience semi-regular sexual interactions with an adult(s).
Is an adult who engages in sexual activity with a child necessarily using them for sex? How do we know that they're aren't doing it solely for the benefit and pleasure of the child?
No they are engaging in a human relationship.
We don't know because whenever we try to do anything of the sort we cut to the parents crying on CNN then we read what the viewers have to say. The whole state of humanity is a fucking disaster.
You act as if pedophilia was ok before CNN and "read what the viewers have to say". Why do you think those parents are against it? Maybe because as parents they understand the vulnerability of a child and that children should not be subjected to this sort of interaction?
I have to wonder who is better at understanding children that those who raise them.
I would think that people could remember what they were like as children, themselves?
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
I really hope your not trying to make an argument for pedophilia with these wack studies man. Its just not right.
Elaborate how those studies are "wack", because they are accurate or because you are uniformed? I cannot argue against ignorance because its a brick wall. Either do the reading or do not post.
On November 11 2010 17:27 Throllax wrote:
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
You sir, are the sort of stain on society that keeps these monsters from being locked away for good. Children, contrary to whatever warped view on reality you may believe, do not have the cognitive reasoning of an adult mind. Their mind at pre-teen age is still vulnerable, even 'innocent', and very open to suggestion.
You've pulled out these 3 crack-job professors as examples to say that somehow, a child is fully capable of educated consent at pre-teen age? They're probably kiddie touchers themselves. How about you take a look at, oh, say the explanatory memoranda of every child-protection legislation in the world - you'll find it packed full of real, sane professionals who've actually studied the psychology of children.
Let's put this into a practical example. Your uncle comes to see you when you are 6 years old, you're playing with your toys and racing cars in your bedroom (by your reasoning, something every grown adult does too). He asks you if you want to do something fun. Being an innocent child, you say yes. He proceeds to touch you in innappropriate places (of course, appropriate by your meaning), and does things to you...well, we all know where this is going. On what whacked planet you live on is that ok? Just because that 6 year old said 'yes', somehow it's alright because 'children have the power to regulate their own sexuality'?
I advise you talk to some victims of pedophilia and sexual abuse. I doubt they'll see it the same way as you do.
You disgust me mate.
Ad hominem.
Also I don't judge you but feel free to judge me because I did some research.
As has been stated above pedo laws exist for a reason. It is UNREASONABLE to expect a child (by the legal definition) to make decisions about their sexuality. Children are not adults by any stretch, and to imagine that since some psychologist laid down some thoughts on how a child-adult sexual relationship should work children suddenly can think and reason like adults its ludacris.
sex is only a big deal because society says so. there is no reason sex should take any decision making or reasoning or maturity, not for an adult, not for anyone.
that said, society does place this bias on sex and right or wrong it exists and thus sexual interaction can damage a child (or adult) emotionally or mentally. it is for this reason only ("consensual") sexual contact with a child should be illegal. any form of child molestation should obviously be illegal.
this is not terribly relevant however. pedophilia does not imply sex or sexual contact.
edit* heh, dh, you don't have to be a pedophile to follow that logic.
This is true but it's only an argument I've seen pedophiles bother to make.
Me thinks you don't spend much time around fetishists?
I suppose not? I don't remember any fetishists I've been in contact with recently.
I hang around them daily. BDSM activities are still considered a psychosis or whatever by the DSMIV. It's idiotic and discredits "professionals."
On November 11 2010 17:48 Clues wrote: Wait so Carefoot, you are for seducing children for sexual pleasure? Or just that if you can desire it, it should happen?
Do you draw a line? What about mentally handicapped people? What group (if any) do you think actually deserves legal protections from sexual predators?
My line is different then the one in this forum. Society should have less not more rules.
That is such a cop out.
You wouldn't consider the centuries of cultural evolution occurring all over the world coming to a nearly unanimous decision that pedophilia is wrong a solid force for good in the world? The weather beaten rule, forged over all this time of human evolution and creation is don't fuck with children. I hope you don't think your new line of thinking is new or revolutionary.
Redefining the term "child sexual abuse". Another recurring theme among those seeking to gain social acceptance for pedophilia is the need to redefine or restrict the usage of the term "child sexual abuse". For example, Gerald Jones (1990), an Affiliated Scholar at the Institute for the Study of Women and Men in Society at the University of Southern California, suggested that "intergenerational intimacy" should not be considered synonymous with child sexual abuse. According to her, the "crucial difference has to do with mutuality and control" (p. 278). Jones suggested, "Intergenerational attraction on the part of some adults could constitute a lifestyle 'orientation', rather than a pathological maladjustment" (p. 288).
Also thanks for for laying off the ad-hominem I do appreciate it.
On November 11 2010 17:45 Hanners wrote: I'm going to turn this into a real hornet's nest by positing a suggestion:
If we weren't told that sexual interaction between adults and children was wrong, would this be an issue?
Like, say a child did experience semi-regular sexual interactions with an adult(s).
Is an adult who engages in sexual activity with a child necessarily using them for sex? How do we know that they're aren't doing it solely for the benefit and pleasure of the child?
No they are engaging in a human relationship.
We don't know because whenever we try to do anything of the sort we cut to the parents crying on CNN then we read what the viewers have to say. The whole state of humanity is a fucking disaster.
Individuals who lack the maturity or basic competency to make decisions about their sexuality are fundamentally incapable of consenting to and thus forming a mutual sexual relationship. You don't need to be told this to understand it, because it follows logically (from what we know about mental capacity, sexual maturity, and consent) that the only relationship between a pedophile and the child they're having sex with is that of predator and prey. The same complete lack of consent applies for a mentally retarded person or an unconscious girl at a party.
Just because this is intuitively obvious to most people doesn't mean they are uninformed sensationalists because they haven't read multiple studies from people who disagree.
On November 11 2010 17:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:There are a fair amount of pedophiles that argue sexual contact with a child is traumatic because the child is conditioned to believe it is traumatic. That even if the child enjoyed an intimate experience with an adult, every other adult would convince the child they were abused and taken advantage of and traumatize them.
Seems like a bad attempt at justification to me but it makes a little bit of sense I guess.
Interestingly, this is an excellent argument against acting on one's pedophilia even if you don't think it's morally wrong to do so, because society will unavoidably punish the child psychologically even if you believe that you have inflicted no damage.
There are many pedophiles out there who recognize that they cannot act on their impulses without harming others, and restrain themselves because they know it would be wrong. I'm sure there are also people out there who must suppress the constant urge to stab people, or to jump off tall buildings. They may be harmless while under control, but they should still should seek treatment for their psychopathy before they lose control or are driven mad by their own demons.
I would think that people could remember what they were like as children, themselves?
You're trying to argue that People, with our very frail and suggestible memory, can properly identify what a child thinks and acts like, Better than the people who spend their day caring after children? Really? You understand that even our memories are mental recreations based upon random projections of the events themselves, easily modifiable by our own biases and ideas right? You understand that trying to relive a stream of consciousness that is 10-30 years in the past is basically impossible right?
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
I really hope your not trying to make an argument for pedophilia with these wack studies man. Its just not right.
Elaborate how those studies are "wack", because they are accurate or because you are uniformed? I cannot argue against ignorance because its a brick wall. Either do the reading or do not post.
On November 11 2010 17:27 Throllax wrote:
On November 11 2010 16:32 Carefoot wrote: Now the book is not for sale on the internet congratulations. Maybe you crack down on some more child porn too so they can do it the old fashioned way like in the 80's when they did laps around a school yard with candy on a fishing line so they can rope junior into the Oldsmobile.
Let them jack off in their basement in South Carolina - sounds safe to me... have you ever met a pedophile before? They're usually financially secure, live with their parents and have a job. Sounds like the perfect date for you're stupid rug rat.
What if heterosexual mating was deemed immoral, flip this around and pedophiles demanded all birthing occur in a test tube and anyone caught doing the act of natural procreation would be reprimanded? Does this sound ludicrous to you?
It is. Pedophilia is something that naturally occurs in nature, and apes.
In a 1998 newspaper interview, Dutch psychiatrist Gerald Roelofs suggested the following five guidelines for relationships between adults and children: There should be no coercion The child should be free to stop at any moment Sexuality should be compatible with the psychosexual development of the child The parents should know about [the sexual aspect of] the relationship The child should be able to openly discuss the relationship without fear of disapproval
About the same time, Frans Gieles, in conjunction with the JORis workgroup of the Dutch Society for Sexual Reform (NVSH) proposed the following four guidelines:[13] Self-Determination: Children must always have it in their own power to regulate their own sexuality, their relationships with others and their own lives. Initiative: Even in a later stage of the relationship, it is always the children who make the choice to have sex. Freedom: At any moment within the relationship with an adult, children must have the freedom to withdraw from the relationship. Openness: The child should not have to carry unreasonable secrets.
More recently, subsequent discussions about these guidelines have produced a synthesis of these earlier proposals. The following four guidelines have now been officially adopted by MARTIJN and form the basis of the ethos of the Human Face of Pedophilia: Consent of both child and adult Openness towards the parents of the child Freedom for the child to withdraw from the relationship at any moment Harmony with the child's development
You sir, are the sort of stain on society that keeps these monsters from being locked away for good. Children, contrary to whatever warped view on reality you may believe, do not have the cognitive reasoning of an adult mind. Their mind at pre-teen age is still vulnerable, even 'innocent', and very open to suggestion.
You've pulled out these 3 crack-job professors as examples to say that somehow, a child is fully capable of educated consent at pre-teen age? They're probably kiddie touchers themselves. How about you take a look at, oh, say the explanatory memoranda of every child-protection legislation in the world - you'll find it packed full of real, sane professionals who've actually studied the psychology of children.
Let's put this into a practical example. Your uncle comes to see you when you are 6 years old, you're playing with your toys and racing cars in your bedroom (by your reasoning, something every grown adult does too). He asks you if you want to do something fun. Being an innocent child, you say yes. He proceeds to touch you in innappropriate places (of course, appropriate by your meaning), and does things to you...well, we all know where this is going. On what whacked planet you live on is that ok? Just because that 6 year old said 'yes', somehow it's alright because 'children have the power to regulate their own sexuality'?
I advise you talk to some victims of pedophilia and sexual abuse. I doubt they'll see it the same way as you do.
You disgust me mate.
Ad hominem.
Also I don't judge you but feel free to judge me because I did some research.
As has been stated above pedo laws exist for a reason. It is UNREASONABLE to expect a child (by the legal definition) to make decisions about their sexuality. Children are not adults by any stretch, and to imagine that since some psychologist laid down some thoughts on how a child-adult sexual relationship should work children suddenly can think and reason like adults its ludacris.
sex is only a big deal because society says so. there is no reason sex should take any decision making or reasoning or maturity, not for an adult, not for anyone.
that said, society does place this bias on sex and right or wrong it exists and thus sexual interaction can damage a child (or adult) emotionally or mentally. it is for this reason only ("consensual") sexual contact with a child should be illegal. any form of child molestation should obviously be illegal.
this is not terribly relevant however. pedophilia does not imply sex or sexual contact.
edit* heh, dh, you don't have to be a pedophile to follow that logic.
You mean other than the numerous studies that show this type of behavior exhibited upon children is psychologically damaging? You can't just say all the myriad of psychological issues abused children face is because society told them what happend was wrong. Thats simply not true.
You mean other than the fact that sex's primary goal is to produce children? That children giving birth to children is not good?
The reason sex needs decision making is its effect goes way beyond the temporary sensations while its occurring.
i'm very confident these studies would almost exclusive focus on abusive relationships or children who were convinced they were damaged by society.
take sexual encounters between two children for an example. these are (at the very, very least) almost never considered to be damaging. these relationships are simply generally considered to be non abusive and get a free ride. there does not have to be a fundamental difference between this relationship and one in which an adult is substituted.
the primary goal of sex is irrelevant. the effects of sex need not go way beyond anything.
On November 11 2010 17:48 Clues wrote: Wait so Carefoot, you are for seducing children for sexual pleasure? Or just that if you can desire it, it should happen?
Do you draw a line? What about mentally handicapped people? What group (if any) do you think actually deserves legal protections from sexual predators?
My line is different then the one in this forum. Society should have less not more rules.
That is such a cop out.
You wouldn't consider the centuries of cultural evolution occurring all over the world coming to a nearly unanimous decision that pedophilia is wrong a solid force for good in the world? The weather beaten rule, forged over all this time of human evolution and creation is don't fuck with children. I hope you don't think your new line of thinking is new or revolutionary.
and how long ago was it that these centuries of cultural evolution were united in a nearly unanimous decision that slavery was perfectly fine.
society has come up with many ideas over the course of history and honestly has proven itself to be quite fickle. the was a time when society accepted pedophilia for instance.
you can't arbitrarily decide society is right at a random time simply because you agree with it at said time.
On November 11 2010 18:15 Carefoot wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_pederasty
Also thanks for for laying off the ad-hominem I do appreciate it.
Throwing out quotes and videos is no better debate practice than ad-hominem attacks. Athenian pederasty concerns pubescent or post-pubescent boys, who have neared or reached maturity and are capable of making informed decisions (if society didn't force it upon them). Even modern laws only raise the bar for maturity a few years here. If you want to argue that it should be legal for a 16-year-old boy to run off with his teacher, you could support it on the basis of when these decisions can be made, not whether informed consent is required.
On November 11 2010 17:45 Hanners wrote: I'm going to turn this into a real hornet's nest by positing a suggestion:
If we weren't told that sexual interaction between adults and children was wrong, would this be an issue?
Like, say a child did experience semi-regular sexual interactions with an adult(s).
Is an adult who engages in sexual activity with a child necessarily using them for sex? How do we know that they're aren't doing it solely for the benefit and pleasure of the child?
No they are engaging in a human relationship.
We don't know because whenever we try to do anything of the sort we cut to the parents crying on CNN then we read what the viewers have to say. The whole state of humanity is a fucking disaster.
Individuals who lack the maturity or basic competency to make decisions about their sexuality are fundamentally incapable of consenting to and thus forming a mutual sexual relationship. You don't need to be told this to understand it, because it follows logically (from what we know about mental capacity, sexual maturity, and consent) that the only relationship between a pedophile and the child they're having sex with is that of predator and prey. The same complete lack of consent applies for a mentally retarded person or an unconscious girl at a party.
The same could be said of a 40 year old virgin. Sexual competency is not restricted (or magically attained) by age.
I would think that people could remember what they were like as children, themselves?
You're trying to argue that People, with our very frail and suggestible memory, can properly identify what a child thinks and acts like, Better than the people who spend their day caring after children? Really? You understand that even our memories are mental recreations based upon random projections of the events themselves, easily modifiable by our own biases and ideas right? You understand that trying to relive a stream of consciousness that is 10-30 years in the past is basically impossible right?
I'm sorry that you can't remember what it's like to be a child. It's incredibly easy for me. /shrug
I'm sure getting raped is one of the most traumatizing experiences possible, especially as a child. That book should be banned because teaching people how to commit a very serious crime like that greatly increases the likelyhood of the crime being committed. So it's pretty simple, ban the book and less kids get raped. Either that or keep a very close eye on whoever buys it (not to mention the author lol).
EPT
