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On November 11 2010 15:23 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:20 tbrown47 wrote:On November 11 2010 15:16 matjlav wrote:
I think you're missing my point. I am not talking about having sexual relationships with children. Pedophilia is a thought, not an action. You can't help what you're sexually attracted to. And if a pedophile does not act on his attractions, then he is not hurting anyone.
(Obviously the child porn industry is very harmful to children, but as far as I can tell, as long as a pedophilia doesn't pay someone for a film, then he's not actually supporting the system in any way. This is debatable and is aside from my main point anyway.) Of course it isn't hurting anyone, but the act of being gay(ie: sexually active) doesn't hurt anyone (except religious people). But acting on pedophilia can never be justified. We don't let (want) 8 year old kids have sex with other 8 year old kids, it isn't about the age, its about SEX. Even if I found it okay for a 18+ year old to be attracted to an 8 year old, I would never be okay with them having sex. Okay, so we're in agreement.
I mean, I'm not saying I enjoy having pedophiles in our world. But I wasn't dealt their hand. So I really just feel sorry for them. But the fact stands, being a pedophile is a lot more unfortunate than being a closet gay is. Because your sexual urges can never be accomplished without being completey unjustified.
On November 11 2010 15:23 Shakes wrote:
I didn't mean there were openly gay couples, I meant if straight kids are getting together and sneaking kisses behind the shelter sheds what makes you think the gay kids aren't too?
Maybe, I guess. But sneaking kisses isn't having sex, which is what I meant by couples. 8 year old gay kids regularly having sex? Maybe 1 in a million?
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On November 11 2010 15:23 Shakes wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:17 tbrown47 wrote:On November 11 2010 15:13 Shakes wrote:
Kids never had boy/girl friends at your primary school? Of course there are gay 8 year old couples, just like there are straight 8 year old couples. Actually, no there were no gay 8 year old couples in my pre-school. I didn't mean there were openly gay couples, I meant if straight kids are getting together and sneaking kisses behind the shelter sheds what makes you think the gay kids aren't too?
I'm no child psychologist, but I imagine that the 8-year-old couples are not actually driven by sexual desire, just by social learning and imitation. As a result, I really doubt that there is a significant amount of 8-year-old gay couples...
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On November 11 2010 15:23 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 14:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 11 2010 14:00 MiniRoman wrote:On November 11 2010 13:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 11 2010 13:25 MiniRoman wrote:On November 11 2010 13:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 11 2010 13:10 MiniRoman wrote:
And that offers any sort of redemption in what way? The book offers guidance on how to avoid being caught while carrying on sexual interactions with children. You seriously gonna get into potential justifications for why the sexual assault occurs?
If you want to feel powerful over a child, offer them an icecream and hold it above your head. Wow you're so powerful. feel better? No? Might as well rape them, then I'll feel in control!
Clearly rape isn't sexual. I'm not talking about the book. I'm just saying it's ignorant to assume all pedophiles are child molesters who want to hurt children. When did I condone raping children? Well you chose to ignore the reality of whats being discussed to argue about words. Any sort of sexual release from viewing children is just wrong. If a pedophile gets off to anything child-pornographic related then it reinforces a system in which I'm sure somewhere a kid was hurt for that end. Is that really something acceptable? Goes against my human nature. I'll accept ignorance and hold a prejudice against pedophiles, doesn't bother me so much. Thanks for making that distinction between child molester and pedophile though, what a big deal it was. Sorry, it's annoying when people try to brand the innocent as rapists. It's doubly annoying when people accept willful ignorance to hate something they don't understand. Don't imply for a second you know how all pedophiles think or act. You sound like an annoying pedophile to me. I don't consider any sexual act relating to children "innocent". They may not be rapists but that's not an act if innocence. edit: so let me ask you, don't find anything sinister about the desires of pedophiles? Not every pedophile is the same. I consider the desire and intent to molest a pre-pubescent child sinister and wrong. I do not consider it wrong to merely be attracted to children. Thoughts and feelings don't harm children. Child molesters do. Thoughts don't necessitate action. Go ahead and write me off as an annoying pedophile but at least understand something before you decide to hate it. Pretty ballsy stance to take... And while I don't see any flaws in the argument, it still feels wrong 
That people shouldn't be persecuted for their thoughts and feelings? Damn I'm edgy
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On November 11 2010 15:25 tbrown47 wrote:
Maybe, I guess. But sneaking kisses isn't having sex.
I was trying not to be too graphic. 8 year olds (both gay and straight) have sex with each other. It's not common but it's not so uncommon I'd consider it unusual either.
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On November 11 2010 15:28 Shakes wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:25 tbrown47 wrote:
Maybe, I guess. But sneaking kisses isn't having sex.
I was trying not to be too graphic. 8 year olds (both gay and straight) have sex with each other. It's not common but it's not so uncommon I'd consider it unusual either.
Uh... 8 year olds having sex as far as I know is reaallllllyyyy unusual haha. That's nowhere near normal sexual experimentation at that age, haha.
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I guess what I'm trying to say is this:
In a gay relationship there are 2 sides to the equation. The 2 people consent, and understand what is going on.
In a pedophilic(?) relationship, there will never be 2 complete sides of the equation. The child will never fully understand what is going on or what is happening. And that is the big issue for me. It isn't that a old person likes a young person, its that a competent person likes an incompetent person.
My sincerest apologies if you are a pedophile, good luck.
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On November 11 2010 15:33 tbrown47 wrote:
I guess what I'm trying to say is this:
In a gay relationship there are 2 sides to the equation. The 2 people consent, and understand what is going on.
In a pedophilic(?) relationship, there will never be 2 complete sides of the equation. The child will never fully understand what is going on or what is happening. And that is the big issue for me. It isn't that a old person likes a young person, its that a competent person likes an incompetent person.
My sincerest apologies if you are a pedophile, good luck.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that pedophilic relationships are not wrong.
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On November 11 2010 15:34 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:33 tbrown47 wrote:
I guess what I'm trying to say is this:
In a gay relationship there are 2 sides to the equation. The 2 people consent, and understand what is going on.
In a pedophilic(?) relationship, there will never be 2 complete sides of the equation. The child will never fully understand what is going on or what is happening. And that is the big issue for me. It isn't that a old person likes a young person, its that a competent person likes an incompetent person.
My sincerest apologies if you are a pedophile, good luck. I don't think anyone here is arguing that pedophilic relationships are not wrong.
I'm just trying to point out that you can only equate being a pedophile to being gay to a certain degree before your argument turns in on itself.
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On November 11 2010 15:31 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:28 Shakes wrote:On November 11 2010 15:25 tbrown47 wrote:
Maybe, I guess. But sneaking kisses isn't having sex.
I was trying not to be too graphic. 8 year olds (both gay and straight) have sex with each other. It's not common but it's not so uncommon I'd consider it unusual either. Uh... 8 year olds having sex as far as I know is reaallllllyyyy unusual haha. That's nowhere near normal sexual experimentation at that age, haha.
I think you'll find it's more people don't talk about it in polite heterosexual adult company, as that tends to be a rather prudish environment when it comes to sex talk. I know multiple people who were experimenting at that age (with others their age, not taking about being molested).
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On November 11 2010 15:20 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:16 matjlav wrote:
I think you're missing my point. I am not talking about having sexual relationships with children. Pedophilia is a thought, not an action. You can't help what you're sexually attracted to. And if a pedophile does not act on his attractions, then he is not hurting anyone.
(Obviously the child porn industry is very harmful to children, but as far as I can tell, as long as a pedophilia doesn't pay someone for a film, then he's not actually supporting the system in any way. This is debatable and is aside from my main point anyway.) Of course it isn't hurting anyone, but the act of being gay(ie: sexually active) doesn't hurt anyone (except religious people). But acting on pedophilia can never be justified. We don't let (want) 8 year old kids have sex with other 8 year old kids, it isn't about the age, its about SEX. Even if I found it okay for a 18+ year old to be attracted to an 8 year old, I would never be okay with them having sex. Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 11 2010 15:05 tbrown47 wrote:
there is a pretty big difference in pedophilia and being gay.
Yeah, one is based on gender the other is based on age. There is a lot more difference than that.
Nope there is not?
Why do all people link pedophilia to child molestation? If you get rid of all pedophiles in the world, do you think that child molestation would go down by 100%? 98%? 90%? You'd wish sir. It would not even go down by 50%.
The thing that is wrong, and that you think of, is the molestation/rape of children/minors, could you get that straight in your head please.
Society should help those people, but think about it yourself, would you go out on limb and say "I'm perhaps a pedophile and get therapy" in our society? Do you think, even though you yourself initiated it to get help, without ever doing something that was against the law, would ever find a normal life again?
That is one problem, that if someone accepts how it is, his only options are to hide/suppress it or basically let the mob lynch his public life.
I have no problem with pedophiles, I have a problem with child molesters. Those two are NOT the same group of people, and by the way, if you get a boner when you see a 16y old you are not a pedophile.
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On November 11 2010 15:37 Starfox wrote:
Nope there is not?
Yes, there is.
Edit:
Reposting this for an answer:
What happens when a kid that is in a relationship with a pedophile grows up? Does the pedophile all of the sudden feel attracted to non-children(maybe was always attracted to them?) and children now or does he move on to another kid? Either way sounds kinda bullshit to me, to be honest. It is just you taking advantage of the kid, IMO.
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Actually, from the people I talk to regularly, most of them were exploring their sexuality before they were 10, myself included.
Also, you can't 100% quantify an age of consent when it comes to sex. Some people are understanding and ready at 10, some people still aren't ready for sex when they are 40. We just kind of made up an arbitrary age based off of hormones and puberty to dictate when it is legal (and even then, it's different dependent on your culture/country).
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On November 11 2010 15:37 Starfox wrote:
Society should help those people, but think about it yourself, would you go out on limb and say "I'm perhaps a pedophile and get therapy" in our society? Do you think, even though you yourself initiated it to get help, without ever doing something that was against the law, would ever find a normal life again?
Of course, one has to wonder whether pedophilia is something that can be cured by therapy, much like the debate over whether homosexuality can be cured by therapy.
But yeah, I totally agree. Someone that's a pedophile pretty much always has to keep it forever buried inside themselves as a dirty secret if they don't want to ruin their lives. It's really quite sad.
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I agree with matjlav and DoctorHelvetica so far.
I also think that people should read the book before making "BAN THE BOOK" comments. For all we know the book can be mainly about suppressing or coping with pedophilia urges (without acting on it/harming anyone), which would actually be a good thing. Obviously I haven't read the book yet myself and for all i know it can be teaching people how to molest children but I think it's pretty bad to make a judgement on a book based on one small excerpt on amazon.
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On November 11 2010 15:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:23 Djzapz wrote:On November 11 2010 14:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 11 2010 14:00 MiniRoman wrote:On November 11 2010 13:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 11 2010 13:25 MiniRoman wrote:On November 11 2010 13:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 11 2010 13:10 MiniRoman wrote:
And that offers any sort of redemption in what way? The book offers guidance on how to avoid being caught while carrying on sexual interactions with children. You seriously gonna get into potential justifications for why the sexual assault occurs?
If you want to feel powerful over a child, offer them an icecream and hold it above your head. Wow you're so powerful. feel better? No? Might as well rape them, then I'll feel in control!
Clearly rape isn't sexual. I'm not talking about the book. I'm just saying it's ignorant to assume all pedophiles are child molesters who want to hurt children. When did I condone raping children? Well you chose to ignore the reality of whats being discussed to argue about words. Any sort of sexual release from viewing children is just wrong. If a pedophile gets off to anything child-pornographic related then it reinforces a system in which I'm sure somewhere a kid was hurt for that end. Is that really something acceptable? Goes against my human nature. I'll accept ignorance and hold a prejudice against pedophiles, doesn't bother me so much. Thanks for making that distinction between child molester and pedophile though, what a big deal it was. Sorry, it's annoying when people try to brand the innocent as rapists. It's doubly annoying when people accept willful ignorance to hate something they don't understand. Don't imply for a second you know how all pedophiles think or act. You sound like an annoying pedophile to me. I don't consider any sexual act relating to children "innocent". They may not be rapists but that's not an act if innocence. edit: so let me ask you, don't find anything sinister about the desires of pedophiles? Not every pedophile is the same. I consider the desire and intent to molest a pre-pubescent child sinister and wrong. I do not consider it wrong to merely be attracted to children. Thoughts and feelings don't harm children. Child molesters do. Thoughts don't necessitate action. Go ahead and write me off as an annoying pedophile but at least understand something before you decide to hate it. Pretty ballsy stance to take... And while I don't see any flaws in the argument, it still feels wrong That people shouldn't be persecuted for their thoughts and feelings? Damn I'm edgy
No I mean I understand your point - when I say it still feels wrong, it's because of my perception of it...
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On November 11 2010 15:40 Hanners wrote:
Actually, from the people I talk to regularly, most of them were exploring their sexuality before they were 10, myself included.
Also, you can't 100% quantify an age of consent when it comes to sex. Some people are understanding and ready at 10, some people still aren't ready for sex when they are 40. We just kind of made up an arbitrary age based off of hormones and puberty to dictate when it is legal (and even then, it's different dependent on your culture/country).
I'm pretty sure you can quantify an age of consent in general. Have you ever tried to talk to an 8 year old about something even remotely complex? They are retarded. They aren't ready to say "I am in a relationship with this person, I will love him/her forever!"
edit: /her
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On November 11 2010 15:42 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:40 Hanners wrote:
Actually, from the people I talk to regularly, most of them were exploring their sexuality before they were 10, myself included.
Also, you can't 100% quantify an age of consent when it comes to sex. Some people are understanding and ready at 10, some people still aren't ready for sex when they are 40. We just kind of made up an arbitrary age based off of hormones and puberty to dictate when it is legal (and even then, it's different dependent on your culture/country). I'm pretty sure you can quantify an age of consent in general. Have you ever tried to talk to an 8 year old about something even remotely complex? They are retarded. They aren't ready to say "I am in a relationship with this person, I will love him/her forever!" edit: /her
The line should be drawn between prepubescent and pubescent, that's the only thing that makes sense to me.
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On November 11 2010 15:31 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:28 Shakes wrote:On November 11 2010 15:25 tbrown47 wrote:
Maybe, I guess. But sneaking kisses isn't having sex.
I was trying not to be too graphic. 8 year olds (both gay and straight) have sex with each other. It's not common but it's not so uncommon I'd consider it unusual either. Uh... 8 year olds having sex as far as I know is reaallllllyyyy unusual haha. That's nowhere near normal sexual experimentation at that age, haha.
While certainly unusual, sexual experimentation at (or close to) that level does happen. I would have lost my virginity to my next door neighbor (who was two years older than me) at the age of 6-7, had I been able to get it up. I didn't necessarily understand the reasons for my actions at the time, but we had the access to the Spice channel and we both wanted to recreate what we saw. Sad story, really; I had an interest all through out my early life in her, and when we were younger, we did experiment quite a lot. I eventually moved away, and our meetings were infrequent. By the time I was 13 (and her 15), she was already bragging about sleeping with 20 somethings year olds, being able to get whatever she wanted. I actually have suspicions that her older brothers molested her, which was why she was so knowledgeable in our recreations, but this is becoming too depressing.
Onto more normal scenarios for the young ones, have you never played Doctor?
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On November 11 2010 15:46 So no fek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 15:31 matjlav wrote:On November 11 2010 15:28 Shakes wrote:On November 11 2010 15:25 tbrown47 wrote:
Maybe, I guess. But sneaking kisses isn't having sex.
I was trying not to be too graphic. 8 year olds (both gay and straight) have sex with each other. It's not common but it's not so uncommon I'd consider it unusual either. Uh... 8 year olds having sex as far as I know is reaallllllyyyy unusual haha. That's nowhere near normal sexual experimentation at that age, haha. While certainly unusual, sexual experimentation at (or close to) that level does happen. I would have lost my virginity to my next door neighbor (who was two years older than me) at the age of 6-7, had I been able to get it up. I didn't necessarily understand the reasons for my actions at the time, but we had the access to the Spice channel and we both wanted to recreate what we saw. Sad story, really; I had an interest all through out my early life in her, and when we were younger, we did experiment quite a lot. I eventually moved away, and our meetings were infrequent. By the time I was 13 (and her 15), she was already bragging about sleeping with 20 somethings year olds, being able to get whatever she wanted. I actually have suspicions that her older brothers molested her, which was why she was so knowledgeable in our recreations, but this is becoming too depressing. Onto more normal scenarios for the young ones, have you never played Doctor?
Same. Kids in the neighborhood would often fool around. It was based off of curiosity though, not lust.
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United States4126 Posts
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EPT
