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US Army: Soldiers killed Afghans for sport - Page 16

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Personal attacks and off-topics arguments won't be tolerated. Report posters that break the rules, instead of responding to them.
Hadron.
Profile Joined November 2010
Norway104 Posts
March 28 2011 10:04 GMT
#301
On March 28 2011 18:36 PrideNeverDie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 18:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
Death penalty is never justified because it neither punishes nor corrects the person. It is contradictory to what a punishment and/or a sentence is.

To end their life serves no purpose in the end.


neither does incarceration without therapy. how does spending years of your life surrounded by criminals help you stop drug addiction?

death penalty serves as a deterrent for future crimes as well as saves honest, hardworking people from paying a lot of money to support a career criminal


Executing a person generally costs more than life imprisonment due to appeals and the surrounding process. We also know that we have executed innocent people, this is hard to reverse.

And execution has never been a deterrent because of a simple reason, criminals don't plan to get caught. I come from a country where the harshest sentence is 21 years (with further time only if that person is a danger). In addition we have much stricter gun control, and guess what. This leads to less murders.

TALegion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1187 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 10:29:06
March 28 2011 10:28 GMT
#302
The actual stories, and a good amount of the posts in this thread (Really? The war is terrible because of a few sociopaths? Really? American soldiers are all baby killers?)....
I can't think of an intelligent response. So:
*Facepalm*
A person willing to die for a cause is a hero. A person willing to kill for a cause is a madman
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8201 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 10:34:44
March 28 2011 10:34 GMT
#303
On March 28 2011 18:36 PrideNeverDie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 18:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
Death penalty is never justified because it neither punishes nor corrects the person. It is contradictory to what a punishment and/or a sentence is.

To end their life serves no purpose in the end.


neither does incarceration without therapy. how does spending years of your life surrounded by criminals help you stop drug addiction?

death penalty serves as a deterrent for future crimes as well as saves honest, hardworking people from paying a lot of money to support a career criminal

Death penalty is the best way to never ask yourself why such things happen. Death penalty is the ultimate hypocrisy.

What this story tells is that this war is barbarian. This kid is a complete moron and a bastard, but for this to happen even with a complete moron and a bastard, you need something to be very seriously wrong in the way this war is driven.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
March 28 2011 13:09 GMT
#304
These guys are professionals? Right, take an 18 year-old redneck kid, give him a gun and a plane ticket, and he's a "professional".

It reminds of how soldiers were depicted in Apocalypse Now. No reason to fight apart from their salary. It's not even about protecting their country if it's so far away from home...

This is disgusting, but I guess it's just war. War is disgusting in many aspects and there are always ugly stories going along.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
March 28 2011 13:13 GMT
#305
On March 28 2011 22:09 Kukaracha wrote:
These guys are professionals? Right, take an 18 year-old redneck kid, give him a gun and a plane ticket, and he's a "professional".

It reminds of how soldiers were depicted in Apocalypse Now. No reason to fight apart from their salary. It's not even about protecting their country if it's so far away from home...

This is disgusting, but I guess it's just war. War is disgusting in many aspects and there are always ugly stories going along.


Onlt hing I'll disagree with is that you don't have to be close to an area to protect your home from it.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
Mawi
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden4365 Posts
March 28 2011 13:14 GMT
#306
Ow god i saw all these sick pictures.... this is just fucked up i just thought they killed civilians by shooting them in the head, but after seeing those pictures now i truly know how messed up those guys are.

"throw candy to the children and run over them" if they did this i would be so furious.
Forever Mirin Zyzz Son of Zeus Brother of Hercules Father of the Aesthetics
Spidinko
Profile Joined May 2010
Slovakia1174 Posts
March 28 2011 13:21 GMT
#307
On March 28 2011 19:28 TALegion wrote:
The actual stories, and a good amount of the posts in this thread (Really? The war is terrible because of a few sociopaths? Really? American soldiers are all baby killers?)....
I can't think of an intelligent response. So:
*Facepalm*

My advice to you is that next time you can't think of an intelligent response, don't respond.
RivalryRedux
Profile Joined July 2009
United States173 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 13:34:11
March 28 2011 13:31 GMT
#308
On March 28 2011 18:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
Death penalty is never justified because it neither punishes nor corrects the person. It is contradictory to what a punishment and/or a sentence is.

To end their life serves no purpose in the end.


Just getting rid of someone to remove their potential to cause harm seems like a purpose to me. It doesn't have to be about punishment/correcting.

Given that, in our current system I think it's more expensive to execute them so that would make throwing them in prison may be a more efficient way of removing them from society.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
March 28 2011 13:37 GMT
#309
Goddamnit, why do I never learn? Should not have clicked that link.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
March 28 2011 13:45 GMT
#310
On March 28 2011 16:19 Lycaeus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 15:54 teammatto wrote:
On March 28 2011 15:40 Tabbris wrote:
Another photo of Afghan children. According to one soldier, members of 3rd Platoon also talked about a scenario in which they “would throw candy out in front and in the rear of the Stryker; the Stryker would then run the children over.”


So fucking sick. These guys need the death sentence


I don't think Soldiers who served our country in one way or another deserve the death sentence, this is all situational and too difficult in my opinion to determine what should be done =(


If those are the soldier's that are keeping me safe, then I'd rather be dead. Evil like that deserve nothing but death.

Painting them as 'evil' completely avoids the actual problem and actually does more harm than good for future cases. Making things 'evil' is the ultimate Bush-ism- it allows you to disconnect yourself from the bad deeds and just proclaim that they're bad apples, nothing is wrong with the system.

That is not true, especially when it comes to war and soldiers. The Apocalypse Now reference is spot on, because Heart of Darkness is a perfect example of the psychological transformation people go through in war and when they're put in ultimate positions of power.

Heinous crimes like these need to be accounted for, but just killing the persecutors and hoping it never happens again will not prevent it in the future. It never has.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2686 Posts
March 28 2011 13:48 GMT
#311
I hate how CNN tries to imply that the killings have something to do with smoking hash and opium. Pretty dumb to think that hash and opium can go and make you kill someone lol. Lets just blame drugs for everything and not let anyone have any responsibility for their own actions.
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42417 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-28 13:52:05
March 28 2011 13:51 GMT
#312
On March 28 2011 22:48 CultureMisfits wrote:
I hate how CNN tries to imply that the killings have something to do with smoking hash and opium. Pretty dumb to think that hash and opium can go and make you kill someone lol. Lets just blame drugs for everything and not let anyone have any responsibility for their own actions.


Thats media for you, CNN isn't the only one.. Same shit with shooting games, even though it might make you insane, but still.

"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
March 28 2011 13:58 GMT
#313
This happens all the time in war, it just hardly ever gets brought to light (because, you know, it's a war crime).

Remember the First Airborne regiment killing for sport in Somalia?
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
red_b
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1267 Posts
March 28 2011 14:03 GMT
#314
Oh Pentagon and your coverups, when will you ever stop?
Those small maps were like a boxing match in a phone booth.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
March 28 2011 14:12 GMT
#315
On March 28 2011 22:48 CultureMisfits wrote:
I hate how CNN tries to imply that the killings have something to do with smoking hash and opium. Pretty dumb to think that hash and opium can go and make you kill someone lol. Lets just blame drugs for everything and not let anyone have any responsibility for their own actions.


Yeah it's pretty amusing. Opium basically makes you sleep, and hashish makes you calm and relaxed... If the persons were under the effects of the drugs while killing people, I'd say they're becoming pretty huge dangers to society. Soldiers are drilled to kill, so that's what they do.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Johnnybb
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark486 Posts
March 28 2011 14:24 GMT
#316
That is crazy. Some of the soldiers must have gone insane for being in Afghanistan or something.
sikyon
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1045 Posts
March 28 2011 14:37 GMT
#317
I don't know about the US but in Canada, the military doesn't exactly attract top graduates out of high school and college.

No, this is what happens when you are forced to fight with the dregs of society, those who HAVE to join the military.

I'm not saying everyone in the military is like this, just that the incidence is higher due to the status of the job.
tryummm
Profile Joined August 2009
774 Posts
March 28 2011 14:51 GMT
#318
This is what happens when a government propagandizes how evil an entire group of people are just because of the side of an imaginary line they live on. Don't get me wrong, sure there are some real terrorists...but its all hyped so much. Not a single person inside the United States has died from a terrorist since 9/11, 2001. Even the Secretary of Defense admits Gaddafi was no threat to the US prior to the attacks, and thus the attacks on Libya are unconstitutional (Perhaps this is somewhat off topic). My point is, a majority of Afghanistan/Iraq citizens are great people, and its only a small minority that completely hate the United States. Also, its been declassified that Al Qaeda leaders such as Anwar al-Awlaki have been privately meeting at the Pentagon with federal officials, so perhaps we should be suspicious of our own government rather than killing innocent citizens that aren't even affiliated with any terrorist groups in wars we can't even afford.
ZeaL.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5955 Posts
March 28 2011 14:53 GMT
#319
On March 28 2011 23:37 sikyon wrote:
I don't know about the US but in Canada, the military doesn't exactly attract top graduates out of high school and college.

No, this is what happens when you are forced to fight with the dregs of society, those who HAVE to join the military.

I'm not saying everyone in the military is like this, just that the incidence is higher due to the status of the job.


I've seen some of the brightest kids go into the military as well as some of the dumbest motherfuckers out there. The brighter ones I knew all went into either West Point or Air Force, most of the poorer/dumber people joined Army. I think for a lot of lower income people joining the military is a great deal because you get paid, they take care of you for a few years, and when you come out college is paid for. A lot of people probably join because they have no idea what to do with themselves after high school. With that kind of input, the fact that this kind of stuff happens in an already mindfucking place like Afghanistan makes me surprised that this hasn't happened more frequently.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
March 28 2011 15:11 GMT
#320
On March 28 2011 23:53 ZeaL. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2011 23:37 sikyon wrote:
I don't know about the US but in Canada, the military doesn't exactly attract top graduates out of high school and college.

No, this is what happens when you are forced to fight with the dregs of society, those who HAVE to join the military.

I'm not saying everyone in the military is like this, just that the incidence is higher due to the status of the job.


I've seen some of the brightest kids go into the military as well as some of the dumbest motherfuckers out there. The brighter ones I knew all went into either West Point or Air Force, most of the poorer/dumber people joined Army. I think for a lot of lower income people joining the military is a great deal because you get paid, they take care of you for a few years, and when you come out college is paid for. A lot of people probably join because they have no idea what to do with themselves after high school. With that kind of input, the fact that this kind of stuff happens in an already mindfucking place like Afghanistan makes me surprised that this hasn't happened more frequently.


99th percentile on my Asvab, Army infantry for 4.5 years, medically retired now. Mind you, a whole lot of the US Army is pretty fucked up, but so are the political and tactical situations. The issues are a whole lot more complex than they get made out to be though.

The vast majority of Combat Arms, the Infantry, Cav Scouts, and Tankers, aren't in the high IQ demographic. However, I don't think that's really the issue. The issue is the social groups they fall under. Now I'm perfectly aware this will raise a shit storm, but the fact is, the majority of those guys are Catholic or redneck Christians.

It's combining the lesser education, the intolerant religious upbringing, and the "badass soldier on a mission" mentality that really causes the problems. The intolerance allows them to not question the things that should be questioned, breeding ignorant hatred, and then handing them a gun and saying "all these guys are bad guys". It doesn't take long before they really believe that ALL of them are bad guys. It doesn't help that you can't be sure, and half the time, due to politics, you can't do something about the ones where you are sure.

Give ignorant, intolerant people guns, combat training, and a motive for hatred, spurred on by the common conflict, and it creates incidents like this. The US breeds intolerance in more places than the military, they're just the ones given an outlet. The problem goes deeper than the war crimes. Fix the intolerance, fix the ignorance, and fix the political climate, and maybe we can avoid a lot of this nonsense.
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