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Personal attacks and off-topics arguments won't be tolerated. Report posters that break the rules, instead of responding to them. |
On March 28 2011 18:36 PrideNeverDie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 18:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
Death penalty is never justified because it neither punishes nor corrects the person. It is contradictory to what a punishment and/or a sentence is.
To end their life serves no purpose in the end. neither does incarceration without therapy. how does spending years of your life surrounded by criminals help you stop drug addiction? death penalty serves as a deterrent for future crimes as well as saves honest, hardworking people from paying a lot of money to support a career criminal
Executing a person generally costs more than life imprisonment due to appeals and the surrounding process. We also know that we have executed innocent people, this is hard to reverse.
And execution has never been a deterrent because of a simple reason, criminals don't plan to get caught. I come from a country where the harshest sentence is 21 years (with further time only if that person is a danger). In addition we have much stricter gun control, and guess what. This leads to less murders.
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The actual stories, and a good amount of the posts in this thread (Really? The war is terrible because of a few sociopaths? Really? American soldiers are all baby killers?)....
I can't think of an intelligent response. So:
*Facepalm*
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France8166 Posts
On March 28 2011 18:36 PrideNeverDie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 18:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
Death penalty is never justified because it neither punishes nor corrects the person. It is contradictory to what a punishment and/or a sentence is.
To end their life serves no purpose in the end. neither does incarceration without therapy. how does spending years of your life surrounded by criminals help you stop drug addiction? death penalty serves as a deterrent for future crimes as well as saves honest, hardworking people from paying a lot of money to support a career criminal
Death penalty is the best way to never ask yourself why such things happen. Death penalty is the ultimate hypocrisy.
What this story tells is that this war is barbarian. This kid is a complete moron and a bastard, but for this to happen even with a complete moron and a bastard, you need something to be very seriously wrong in the way this war is driven.
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These guys are professionals? Right, take an 18 year-old redneck kid, give him a gun and a plane ticket, and he's a "professional".
It reminds of how soldiers were depicted in Apocalypse Now. No reason to fight apart from their salary. It's not even about protecting their country if it's so far away from home...
This is disgusting, but I guess it's just war. War is disgusting in many aspects and there are always ugly stories going along.
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On March 28 2011 22:09 Kukaracha wrote:
These guys are professionals? Right, take an 18 year-old redneck kid, give him a gun and a plane ticket, and he's a "professional".
It reminds of how soldiers were depicted in Apocalypse Now. No reason to fight apart from their salary. It's not even about protecting their country if it's so far away from home...
This is disgusting, but I guess it's just war. War is disgusting in many aspects and there are always ugly stories going along.
Onlt hing I'll disagree with is that you don't have to be close to an area to protect your home from it.
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Ow god i saw all these sick pictures.... this is just fucked up i just thought they killed civilians by shooting them in the head, but after seeing those pictures now i truly know how messed up those guys are.
"throw candy to the children and run over them" if they did this i would be so furious.
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On March 28 2011 19:28 TALegion wrote:
The actual stories, and a good amount of the posts in this thread (Really? The war is terrible because of a few sociopaths? Really? American soldiers are all baby killers?)....
I can't think of an intelligent response. So:
*Facepalm*
My advice to you is that next time you can't think of an intelligent response, don't respond.
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On March 28 2011 18:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
Death penalty is never justified because it neither punishes nor corrects the person. It is contradictory to what a punishment and/or a sentence is.
To end their life serves no purpose in the end.
Just getting rid of someone to remove their potential to cause harm seems like a purpose to me. It doesn't have to be about punishment/correcting.
Given that, in our current system I think it's more expensive to execute them so that would make throwing them in prison may be a more efficient way of removing them from society.
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Goddamnit, why do I never learn? Should not have clicked that link. 
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United States22883 Posts
On March 28 2011 16:19 Lycaeus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 15:54 teammatto wrote:On March 28 2011 15:40 Tabbris wrote:Another photo of Afghan children. According to one soldier, members of 3rd Platoon also talked about a scenario in which they “would throw candy out in front and in the rear of the Stryker; the Stryker would then run the children over.” So fucking sick. These guys need the death sentence I don't think Soldiers who served our country in one way or another deserve the death sentence, this is all situational and too difficult in my opinion to determine what should be done =( If those are the soldier's that are keeping me safe, then I'd rather be dead. Evil like that deserve nothing but death.
Painting them as 'evil' completely avoids the actual problem and actually does more harm than good for future cases. Making things 'evil' is the ultimate Bush-ism- it allows you to disconnect yourself from the bad deeds and just proclaim that they're bad apples, nothing is wrong with the system.
That is not true, especially when it comes to war and soldiers. The Apocalypse Now reference is spot on, because Heart of Darkness is a perfect example of the psychological transformation people go through in war and when they're put in ultimate positions of power.
Heinous crimes like these need to be accounted for, but just killing the persecutors and hoping it never happens again will not prevent it in the future. It never has.
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I hate how CNN tries to imply that the killings have something to do with smoking hash and opium. Pretty dumb to think that hash and opium can go and make you kill someone lol. Lets just blame drugs for everything and not let anyone have any responsibility for their own actions.
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On March 28 2011 22:48 CultureMisfits wrote:
I hate how CNN tries to imply that the killings have something to do with smoking hash and opium. Pretty dumb to think that hash and opium can go and make you kill someone lol. Lets just blame drugs for everything and not let anyone have any responsibility for their own actions.
Thats media for you, CNN isn't the only one.. Same shit with shooting games, even though it might make you insane, but still.
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This happens all the time in war, it just hardly ever gets brought to light (because, you know, it's a war crime).
Remember the First Airborne regiment killing for sport in Somalia?
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Oh Pentagon and your coverups, when will you ever stop?
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On March 28 2011 22:48 CultureMisfits wrote:
I hate how CNN tries to imply that the killings have something to do with smoking hash and opium. Pretty dumb to think that hash and opium can go and make you kill someone lol. Lets just blame drugs for everything and not let anyone have any responsibility for their own actions.
Yeah it's pretty amusing. Opium basically makes you sleep, and hashish makes you calm and relaxed... If the persons were under the effects of the drugs while killing people, I'd say they're becoming pretty huge dangers to society. Soldiers are drilled to kill, so that's what they do.
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That is crazy. Some of the soldiers must have gone insane for being in Afghanistan or something.
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I don't know about the US but in Canada, the military doesn't exactly attract top graduates out of high school and college.
No, this is what happens when you are forced to fight with the dregs of society, those who HAVE to join the military.
I'm not saying everyone in the military is like this, just that the incidence is higher due to the status of the job.
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This is what happens when a government propagandizes how evil an entire group of people are just because of the side of an imaginary line they live on. Don't get me wrong, sure there are some real terrorists...but its all hyped so much. Not a single person inside the United States has died from a terrorist since 9/11, 2001. Even the Secretary of Defense admits Gaddafi was no threat to the US prior to the attacks, and thus the attacks on Libya are unconstitutional (Perhaps this is somewhat off topic). My point is, a majority of Afghanistan/Iraq citizens are great people, and its only a small minority that completely hate the United States. Also, its been declassified that Al Qaeda leaders such as Anwar al-Awlaki have been privately meeting at the Pentagon with federal officials, so perhaps we should be suspicious of our own government rather than killing innocent citizens that aren't even affiliated with any terrorist groups in wars we can't even afford.
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On March 28 2011 23:37 sikyon wrote:
I don't know about the US but in Canada, the military doesn't exactly attract top graduates out of high school and college.
No, this is what happens when you are forced to fight with the dregs of society, those who HAVE to join the military.
I'm not saying everyone in the military is like this, just that the incidence is higher due to the status of the job.
I've seen some of the brightest kids go into the military as well as some of the dumbest motherfuckers out there. The brighter ones I knew all went into either West Point or Air Force, most of the poorer/dumber people joined Army. I think for a lot of lower income people joining the military is a great deal because you get paid, they take care of you for a few years, and when you come out college is paid for. A lot of people probably join because they have no idea what to do with themselves after high school. With that kind of input, the fact that this kind of stuff happens in an already mindfucking place like Afghanistan makes me surprised that this hasn't happened more frequently.
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On March 28 2011 23:53 ZeaL. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 23:37 sikyon wrote:
I don't know about the US but in Canada, the military doesn't exactly attract top graduates out of high school and college.
No, this is what happens when you are forced to fight with the dregs of society, those who HAVE to join the military.
I'm not saying everyone in the military is like this, just that the incidence is higher due to the status of the job. I've seen some of the brightest kids go into the military as well as some of the dumbest motherfuckers out there. The brighter ones I knew all went into either West Point or Air Force, most of the poorer/dumber people joined Army. I think for a lot of lower income people joining the military is a great deal because you get paid, they take care of you for a few years, and when you come out college is paid for. A lot of people probably join because they have no idea what to do with themselves after high school. With that kind of input, the fact that this kind of stuff happens in an already mindfucking place like Afghanistan makes me surprised that this hasn't happened more frequently.
99th percentile on my Asvab, Army infantry for 4.5 years, medically retired now. Mind you, a whole lot of the US Army is pretty fucked up, but so are the political and tactical situations. The issues are a whole lot more complex than they get made out to be though.
The vast majority of Combat Arms, the Infantry, Cav Scouts, and Tankers, aren't in the high IQ demographic. However, I don't think that's really the issue. The issue is the social groups they fall under. Now I'm perfectly aware this will raise a shit storm, but the fact is, the majority of those guys are Catholic or redneck Christians.
It's combining the lesser education, the intolerant religious upbringing, and the "badass soldier on a mission" mentality that really causes the problems. The intolerance allows them to not question the things that should be questioned, breeding ignorant hatred, and then handing them a gun and saying "all these guys are bad guys". It doesn't take long before they really believe that ALL of them are bad guys. It doesn't help that you can't be sure, and half the time, due to politics, you can't do something about the ones where you are sure.
Give ignorant, intolerant people guns, combat training, and a motive for hatred, spurred on by the common conflict, and it creates incidents like this. The US breeds intolerance in more places than the military, they're just the ones given an outlet. The problem goes deeper than the war crimes. Fix the intolerance, fix the ignorance, and fix the political climate, and maybe we can avoid a lot of this nonsense.
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EPT
