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United States24805 Posts
On September 25 2010 11:17 dybydx wrote:
i've made a post to congratulate someone for finding a rare piece of information but was temp banned cause my post was "insulting".
TL was never meant to be a place for free speech though, so we might be expecting too much.
I generally don't warn/ban people for saying things that I think make no sense, but since I think what you said made no sense, I'll at least point it out.
Everyone has a paraphrased story where they got banned for something ridiculous and then when you investigate, 9/10 times it was completely a justified ban (at least). Evidence or it didn't happen. Not saying you have to provide evidence now, but do provide evidence if you want it taken seriously.
Your last comment is ridiculous. Do you know what free speech is? If you simply mean 'a place where we can speak freely' then there's no need for any moderators whatsoever (which almost everyone here agrees would be a nightmare). The 'speech' that is allowed is outlined in the 10 commandments thread. The 10 commandments are not the government and do not constitute free speech laws.
Whiny complaints are generally going to draw a negative response too.
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is awesome32282 Posts
On September 25 2010 11:09 Ricjames wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 07:55 JWD wrote:On September 25 2010 07:50 Ricjames wrote:
nor was offensive in any way oh? On September 12 2010 05:41 Ricjames wrote:
I was 15 and we were having LAN session. Someone shouted: hey what the fuck, plane hit some skyscraper in New york. So we went to watch the TV. Half of us were laughing like crazy, cause it seemed ridiculously funny at that age. Actually it would be funny now too. JWD i don't want to argue or go into it again. Only thing i want to say is that i meant it seems funny to me if a damn airplane hits skyscraper, the outcome however is not funny at all of course...Death of innocent people is not funny and i would never say that. Still.. even if i would, i don't think it deserves ban - you could say what a fucking psycho, i would never stay anywhere close to this person, cause i would be afraid he wants to torture me to death with his dull home-made knife...and not comment it at all and certainly not ban the poor psycho for having different taste than you have. If i remember correctly the thread asked about what were people doing, how do they remember the day and what is their feeling and you can't ban someone for expressing his feeling...i think
Stop for a second and think about the people who lost a loved relative/friend there and how they would feel about reading your comment.
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United States24805 Posts
Agree with Intothewow. I actually was in a situation where I was with people like you (Ricjames) during the wtc attacks. If they came to tl I wouldn't ban them but if the reminisced about it and seemed like they were cool with it after the fact in a sensitive thread then I would. Tact please.
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TL attracts a lot of people. I'd rather have the current mods, even if they get a little trigger happy at times from some people's perspective (doesn't seem too bad from what I've seen so far) then have a giant site with message boards like gamefaqs. There's enough people that get a kick out of trolling that it could easily descend into something like that with all the incoming people due to SC2's release. The mods seem to be doing a great job at curbing such behavior.
It's nice to see a post where someone just trolls for no reason and gets smacked by a mod quite quickly. TL isn't afraid to bitchslap people if they're acting like idiots. A lot of trolls/griefers/whatever like to make a game of "not quite breaking the rules" while still causing trouble. Mods here seem to be given the freedom to call people on that shit if they see someone to be cute like that, instead of having to wait to catch them openly breaking some rule.
It's like a little kid hovering his finger an inch away from your face chanting "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you!" Then a TL mod walks into the thread, gives that annoying little kid a roundhouse to the face, and says "Don't be a fucking retard."
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TL's modding is probably some of the best on the internet, and yet they still give some posts entirely too much leeway. Be glad we have what we have or this would turn into 4chan.
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TL made me a better poster, TL made me act like a grown up in one of the finest if not the best forum on the internet... every now and then Ill get shitty postings and they will immediately point me out and say "hey! becareful with ur posts, etc" they treat forum vets with alot more leeway and they will temp ban newbies so they can learn and be better posters, after all this is their house and you have to go by their rules! this site is perfect today because of their mods!
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TL is the only forum i EVER read or post in, i have a feeling the mods here are adults and thats just the way i like it, im 25 years old and id rather see a few banhammer then a bunch of kids posting because they have to much time on theyr hand and no real point.
If you like starcraft, this is the one site that really steps above any other out there, you can find anything SC related pretty much instantly because they manage it the way they do. they are pretty kind to even let the thread up, this is not helping anyone.
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Coming sites like EJ and SA, I find it unbelievable that people think the TL staff is being too strict. Posters on TL allowed post two-three word replies with absolutely no effort put into them. Whining, low content, and bad posting are tolerated, I have no idea why people think the admins are being too strict. There are only a few rules that you need follow and they are pretty hard to break, unless you're purposely trying to get banned.
Some tips on how not to get banned~
-Use proper grammar and capitalization (This would be a good rule to add to certain subforums)
-Avoid "internet speak" like "u" and shit like "lolz" (This too)
-Don't get angry over a video game forum
-Use the preview post button, it is very useful
-When reading a post, judge it by the content and not by post count
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Not bad at all. I'm still in high school and I'm already sick of random ass trolls that do whatever they want on other forums. TL for the win.
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TL does a great job modding. No need to change anything.
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On September 25 2010 11:26 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 11:09 Ricjames wrote:On September 25 2010 07:55 JWD wrote:On September 25 2010 07:50 Ricjames wrote:
nor was offensive in any way oh? On September 12 2010 05:41 Ricjames wrote:
I was 15 and we were having LAN session. Someone shouted: hey what the fuck, plane hit some skyscraper in New york. So we went to watch the TV. Half of us were laughing like crazy, cause it seemed ridiculously funny at that age. Actually it would be funny now too. JWD i don't want to argue or go into it again. Only thing i want to say is that i meant it seems funny to me if a damn airplane hits skyscraper, the outcome however is not funny at all of course...Death of innocent people is not funny and i would never say that. Still.. even if i would, i don't think it deserves ban - you could say what a fucking psycho, i would never stay anywhere close to this person, cause i would be afraid he wants to torture me to death with his dull home-made knife...and not comment it at all and certainly not ban the poor psycho for having different taste than you have. If i remember correctly the thread asked about what were people doing, how do they remember the day and what is their feeling and you can't ban someone for expressing his feeling...i think Stop for a second and think about the people who lost a loved relative/friend there and how they would feel about reading your comment.
On September 25 2010 11:28 micronesia wrote:
Agree with Intothewow. I actually was in a situation where I was with people like you (Ricjames) during the wtc attacks. If they came to tl I wouldn't ban them but if the reminisced about it and seemed like they were cool with it after the fact in a sensitive thread then I would. Tact please.
Keep in mind that if you enforce rules like this, then abiding by the same logic, you mustn't allow people to say "raped" - even in the oh so popular gaming sense. To quote IntoTheWow, "Stop and think about people to whom it may have actually happened."
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I've gotten banned for opinions before too where someone else right before me posted the same thing and didn't get banned. Its pretty arbitrary and inconsistent how they punish along with varied severity of punishment which really undermines any sort of authority or respect. There should be consistent reasons and an explanation on bans rather than roll of dice, mod disagree's with you, etc.
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On September 25 2010 12:11 blitzkrieger wrote:
I've gotten banned for opinions before too where someone else right before me posted the same thing and didn't get banned. Its pretty arbitrary and inconsistent how they punish along with varied severity of punishment which really undermines any sort of authority or respect. There should be consistent reasons and an explanation on bans rather than roll of dice, mod disagree's with you, etc.
Yes, because it isn't about what opinions you post, its about how you post them.
And knowing you, you probably posted them in a pretty retarded manner ~_~.
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On September 25 2010 11:26 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 11:09 Ricjames wrote:On September 25 2010 07:55 JWD wrote:On September 25 2010 07:50 Ricjames wrote:
nor was offensive in any way oh? On September 12 2010 05:41 Ricjames wrote:
I was 15 and we were having LAN session. Someone shouted: hey what the fuck, plane hit some skyscraper in New york. So we went to watch the TV. Half of us were laughing like crazy, cause it seemed ridiculously funny at that age. Actually it would be funny now too. JWD i don't want to argue or go into it again. Only thing i want to say is that i meant it seems funny to me if a damn airplane hits skyscraper, the outcome however is not funny at all of course...Death of innocent people is not funny and i would never say that. Still.. even if i would, i don't think it deserves ban - you could say what a fucking psycho, i would never stay anywhere close to this person, cause i would be afraid he wants to torture me to death with his dull home-made knife...and not comment it at all and certainly not ban the poor psycho for having different taste than you have. If i remember correctly the thread asked about what were people doing, how do they remember the day and what is their feeling and you can't ban someone for expressing his feeling...i think Stop for a second and think about the people who lost a loved relative/friend there and how they would feel about reading your comment.
Guys i am not gonna continue to discuss this topic as i don't want to get to any horrible situation. My first post in this thread had the line: "i shouldn't have posted what i did" in it. JWD should quote the whole post, beacuse people who don't read the whole thread might lose the context.
I posted in the original thread, because i wanted to show something (the quote is not full again). I am very sorry for the victims, however i am not sorry for the incident/situation. It is hard to explain and connected to more things. You might hate me for it, but still can't just simply get rid of me. So I stand behind that you can't just ban someone if his opinion hurts your feelings, that is not how the world and freedom of speech work. That is how nazis and communists work. If the thread was called condolence to the victims - i would not post what i did there.
edit: Solar made a good point too..
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On September 25 2010 12:10 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 11:26 IntoTheWow wrote:On September 25 2010 11:09 Ricjames wrote:On September 25 2010 07:55 JWD wrote:On September 25 2010 07:50 Ricjames wrote:
nor was offensive in any way oh? On September 12 2010 05:41 Ricjames wrote:
I was 15 and we were having LAN session. Someone shouted: hey what the fuck, plane hit some skyscraper in New york. So we went to watch the TV. Half of us were laughing like crazy, cause it seemed ridiculously funny at that age. Actually it would be funny now too. JWD i don't want to argue or go into it again. Only thing i want to say is that i meant it seems funny to me if a damn airplane hits skyscraper, the outcome however is not funny at all of course...Death of innocent people is not funny and i would never say that. Still.. even if i would, i don't think it deserves ban - you could say what a fucking psycho, i would never stay anywhere close to this person, cause i would be afraid he wants to torture me to death with his dull home-made knife...and not comment it at all and certainly not ban the poor psycho for having different taste than you have. If i remember correctly the thread asked about what were people doing, how do they remember the day and what is their feeling and you can't ban someone for expressing his feeling...i think Stop for a second and think about the people who lost a loved relative/friend there and how they would feel about reading your comment. Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 11:28 micronesia wrote:
Agree with Intothewow. I actually was in a situation where I was with people like you (Ricjames) during the wtc attacks. If they came to tl I wouldn't ban them but if the reminisced about it and seemed like they were cool with it after the fact in a sensitive thread then I would. Tact please. Keep in mind that if you enforce rules like this, then abiding by the same logic, you mustn't allow people to say "raped" - even in the oh so popular gaming sense. To quote IntoTheWow, "Stop and think about people to whom it may have actually happened."
Except people don't go around saying they "ran a plane into" somebody else. In the context of Ricjames' post, it was a bad move and his ban was justified.
On September 25 2010 12:11 blitzkrieger wrote:
I've gotten banned for opinions before too where someone else right before me posted the same thing and didn't get banned. Its pretty arbitrary and inconsistent how they punish along with varied severity of punishment which really undermines any sort of authority or respect. There should be consistent reasons and an explanation on bans rather than roll of dice, mod disagree's with you, etc.
Which post were you banned for? It's not exactly hard to imagine why you would be banned, but humor us.
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MURICA15980 Posts
The fact that people feel so entitled to say whatever they want just because its the internet is laughable. If you walk into somebody's house and say your stupid opinion that nobody cares about or is obviously offensive, you're gonna be shown the door. This will happen in business centers as well. In fact, it even happens if you do not get the proper permissions/permits to hold a huge politically charged rally in a city area, and you will even get shut down if its done in a disruptive way. Its no different here. You can't say whatever you want here because it's our house. So play by our rules.
And quite frankly, the 1st Amendment right is often misunderstood to mean that nobody has the right to make you shut up. It's not. It means the GOVERNMENT cannot. And we're not the government. So this is our house. And we'll do what we want to make this a place that's actually pleasant to be at.
We do make mistakes but it's way better this way than the ridiculous immature loads of crap you'll find in 99% of the internet.
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United States24805 Posts
On September 25 2010 12:10 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 11:26 IntoTheWow wrote:On September 25 2010 11:09 Ricjames wrote:On September 25 2010 07:55 JWD wrote:On September 25 2010 07:50 Ricjames wrote:
nor was offensive in any way oh? On September 12 2010 05:41 Ricjames wrote:
I was 15 and we were having LAN session. Someone shouted: hey what the fuck, plane hit some skyscraper in New york. So we went to watch the TV. Half of us were laughing like crazy, cause it seemed ridiculously funny at that age. Actually it would be funny now too. JWD i don't want to argue or go into it again. Only thing i want to say is that i meant it seems funny to me if a damn airplane hits skyscraper, the outcome however is not funny at all of course...Death of innocent people is not funny and i would never say that. Still.. even if i would, i don't think it deserves ban - you could say what a fucking psycho, i would never stay anywhere close to this person, cause i would be afraid he wants to torture me to death with his dull home-made knife...and not comment it at all and certainly not ban the poor psycho for having different taste than you have. If i remember correctly the thread asked about what were people doing, how do they remember the day and what is their feeling and you can't ban someone for expressing his feeling...i think Stop for a second and think about the people who lost a loved relative/friend there and how they would feel about reading your comment. Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 11:28 micronesia wrote:
Agree with Intothewow. I actually was in a situation where I was with people like you (Ricjames) during the wtc attacks. If they came to tl I wouldn't ban them but if the reminisced about it and seemed like they were cool with it after the fact in a sensitive thread then I would. Tact please. Keep in mind that if you enforce rules like this, then abiding by the same logic, you mustn't allow people to say "raped" - even in the oh so popular gaming sense. To quote IntoTheWow, "Stop and think about people to whom it may have actually happened."
I don't agree with you. Not everything that could possibly be insensitive to somebody should be lumped together and dealt with the same way. But to continue your example... the analogous situation wouldn't be someone using the word rape.... it would be someone laughing at how funny it is to knowingly use the word rape which is much worse in the eyes of a rape victim, I believe.
On September 25 2010 12:11 blitzkrieger wrote:
I've gotten banned for opinions before too where someone else right before me posted the same thing and didn't get banned. Its pretty arbitrary and inconsistent how they punish along with varied severity of punishment which really undermines any sort of authority or respect. There should be consistent reasons and an explanation on bans rather than roll of dice, mod disagree's with you, etc.
Evidence or it didn't happen. Occasionally something like that does and will happen when you have thousands of posts every day, many of them terrible. If a wrong is made, then with evidence it can hopefully be corrected. Imagine if you were a mod and you read hundreds of cases of people claiming they were punished unfairly without providing any evidence.... kinda pointless.
On September 25 2010 12:26 Ricjames wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 11:26 IntoTheWow wrote:On September 25 2010 11:09 Ricjames wrote:On September 25 2010 07:55 JWD wrote:On September 25 2010 07:50 Ricjames wrote:
nor was offensive in any way oh? On September 12 2010 05:41 Ricjames wrote:
I was 15 and we were having LAN session. Someone shouted: hey what the fuck, plane hit some skyscraper in New york. So we went to watch the TV. Half of us were laughing like crazy, cause it seemed ridiculously funny at that age. Actually it would be funny now too. JWD i don't want to argue or go into it again. Only thing i want to say is that i meant it seems funny to me if a damn airplane hits skyscraper, the outcome however is not funny at all of course...Death of innocent people is not funny and i would never say that. Still.. even if i would, i don't think it deserves ban - you could say what a fucking psycho, i would never stay anywhere close to this person, cause i would be afraid he wants to torture me to death with his dull home-made knife...and not comment it at all and certainly not ban the poor psycho for having different taste than you have. If i remember correctly the thread asked about what were people doing, how do they remember the day and what is their feeling and you can't ban someone for expressing his feeling...i think Stop for a second and think about the people who lost a loved relative/friend there and how they would feel about reading your comment. Guys i am not gonna continue to discuss this topic as i don't want to get to any horrible situation. My first post in this thread had the line: "i shouldn't have posted what i did" in it. JWD should quote the whole post, beacuse people who don't read the whole thread might lose the context. I posted in the original thread, because i wanted to show something (the quote is not full again). I am very sorry for the victims, however i am not sorry for the incident/situation. It is hard to explain and connected to more things. You might hate me for it, but still can't just simply get rid of me. So I stand behind that you can't just ban someone if his opinion hurts your feelings, that is not how the world and freedom of speech work. That is how nazis and communists work. If the thread was called condolence to the victims - i would not post what i did there. edit: Solar made a good point too..
Nah I appreciate where you are coming from and I don't think we'll have this type of issue again so cool.
But we definitely don't ban people because they simply hurt our feelings... or if that ever happens it is a mistake that we try to fix.
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On September 25 2010 12:26 Ricjames wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 11:26 IntoTheWow wrote:On September 25 2010 11:09 Ricjames wrote:On September 25 2010 07:55 JWD wrote:On September 25 2010 07:50 Ricjames wrote:
nor was offensive in any way oh? On September 12 2010 05:41 Ricjames wrote:
I was 15 and we were having LAN session. Someone shouted: hey what the fuck, plane hit some skyscraper in New york. So we went to watch the TV. Half of us were laughing like crazy, cause it seemed ridiculously funny at that age. Actually it would be funny now too. JWD i don't want to argue or go into it again. Only thing i want to say is that i meant it seems funny to me if a damn airplane hits skyscraper, the outcome however is not funny at all of course...Death of innocent people is not funny and i would never say that. Still.. even if i would, i don't think it deserves ban - you could say what a fucking psycho, i would never stay anywhere close to this person, cause i would be afraid he wants to torture me to death with his dull home-made knife...and not comment it at all and certainly not ban the poor psycho for having different taste than you have. If i remember correctly the thread asked about what were people doing, how do they remember the day and what is their feeling and you can't ban someone for expressing his feeling...i think Stop for a second and think about the people who lost a loved relative/friend there and how they would feel about reading your comment. Guys i am not gonna continue to discuss this topic as i don't want to get to any horrible situation. My first post in this thread had the line: "i shouldn't have posted what i did" in it. JWD should quote the whole post, beacuse people who don't read the whole thread might lose the context. I posted in the original thread, because i wanted to show something (the quote is not full again). I am very sorry for the victims, however i am not sorry for the incident/situation. It is hard to explain and connected to more things. You might hate me for it, but still can't just simply get rid of me. So I stand behind that you can't just ban someone if his opinion hurts your feelings, that is not how the world and freedom of speech work. That is how nazis and communists work. If the thread was called condolence to the victims - i would not post what i did there. edit: Solar made a good point too..
You should read TL Ten Commandments, what does the very first commandment say?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883
1. THIS IS OUR HOUSE
You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible. But, this is a private site. We are not a "for profit" enterprise. We are not funded by any governments. This means we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." We try of course, and that's why we're consistently considered one of the best gaming sites on the web, and you are always free to give us suggestions (Website Feedback Forum). But, we have our limits. If we don't like you, we simply IP ban you. If we're really pissed off, then we IP ban you AND nuke every single post you've uploaded to the site - ever. It will be as if you had never existed here. This is our house. You've been warned.
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RicjamesI am very sorry for the victims, however i am not sorry for the incident/situation. It is hard to explain and connected to more things.
I think as the ancient Greeks would put it, it does not follow. You're making less and less sense as you continue to justify it, just keep in mind how much easier it would be if you just apologised without reserve and dropped the issue. That is the point of the moderator's punishment: to teach so that one can improve their posting. I suppose the lesson you should learn is that just because you find something funny doesn't mean it should be made public.
That is how nazis and communists work
It's actually much more like a benevolent dictatorship, which is the most effective system of government.
Honestly, the fact that the moderators will post in this thread enmasse to defend the system they have set up without shutting the thread says more than anything else about the amount of liberty given on this site.
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I like being part of a forum that is more on the stricter side of moderating. The only part I dislike about it is how daunting it can be to start a new topic :s Sometimes I feel like in order to start a new topic or discussion I need to take the time out to write a whole dissertation on it before making my first post lol. Eventually I'll find something worth making my own topic about I'm sure.
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