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United States11393 Posts
On September 27 2010 13:36 Ichabod wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 12:40 fearus wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Example of bad ban comments: + Show Spoiler +leverage was just temp banned for 2 days by Kennigit.
That account was created on 2010-09-18 21:20:03 and had 1 posts.
Reason: First post. Shit thread GenoZStriker was just temp banned for 2 days by Kennigit.
That account was created on 2010-02-15 03:26:45 and had 591 posts.
Reason: Be constructive or gtfo Bit of hypocrisy there... The context of the first ban seems pretty legitimate...its also only two days, much more like a slap on the wrist than an enormous usurping of power. (thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=155931) As an aside: Linking to the post in question in the automatic ban thread could be helpful though, since context is quite important in understanding why someone was banned (and past posting histories), since the specific post is hard to find sometimes. (can't find the post in question for genozstriker's ban, so I am unable to sufficiently comment on the subject)
Fyi, the post in question was
On September 24 2010 10:20 GenoZStriker wrote:Don't waste your time with Bashiok. He's just as worthless as Karune and is full of shit. Seriously, balancing the game is not their main priority as you can see from the latest patch. He's just there to give you false hope and ban people ofcourse. Since they get a lot of hate per minute  User was temp banned for this post.
(in blizzard in talks with top pros thread)
Real contructive post there.
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On September 27 2010 13:42 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 13:04 IdrA wrote:
free speech is a stupid idea that only exists because we dont have a reasonable way to decide who gets to say what ideas are acceptable and what arent
those people exist on tl and the site would suck a lot worse if they were worried about free speech. they're not infallible but its far better than the alternative. i really hope you mean the first thing only for tl ( a place where you can decide to join or not). if so i agree because on a place where your free to join or leave there is no point to allow total free speach. if someone comes into my house i would not allow him to say whatever he wants (like he blaming me or other of my guests) if not i think you ... ( use the fee mind to complete it... ^^)
no i mean in general, freedom of speech is the best option we have but its bad. in general people are not very smart, or at the very least theyre easy to manipulate, and there most definitely is such a thing as a dangerous idea. freedom of speech allows those ideas to be spread amongst the stupid people which then causes a whole buttload of problems.
if there were an acceptable way to define which ideas shouldnt be allowed id be all for implementing it.
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ok. after i read your post i was thinking:" what can you awnser to this..."
let me try it.
There can not be any accepatble way!
No human or group should ever have the power to say what ideas should be disallowed.
Im from germany and in our history you can see how this is ending.
And whatever "acceptable way" you think of, its make by humans.
This means human decide what ideas are allowed to think/say by other humans.
I think people like you should be allowed to say that they dont want freedom of speach and thinking.
Because i think allowing such bad and dangerous ideas is the only way to never let them be reality again.
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Trolling is a problem, if they want to troll without any fear of a ban, use the Blizzard forums they are pretty laughable these days.
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one of the reasons TL is the best gamerelated forum i ever saw is the amazing moderator work.
sure sometimes some warnings/temp bans result out of the mood of the moderator (i think my last warning for example was not that reasonable and was maybe more of a misunderstanding or just a pissed mod) but who cares. a not 100% reasonable warning that might happen is a very small price to pay for the good work they do..
and if anything the sc2 forum needs even more strict warnings/bannings.
i just dislike the new NSFW censorship. but guess it couldnt be avoided with our liquid heroes getting sponsored and all the new sc2 guys.
the TL staff kept this site amazing over all those years (joined early 04,lurked before that) and thats proof enough that they are doing their shit right.
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To be honest I think the banning for the strongly-stated opinions is just too much.
If the comments are completely flamebait, I can see the reason for banning.
However, a lot of people are just voicing their thoughts/views. The constant bans make me think TL wants us to think a certain way. And that has turned me off to posting here.
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dont say useless stuff and you should be fine that guy was a prick for saying idra, one of the best players out there, isnt good and saying that all zergs are crying because they didnt get a buff so i was happy he got banned it distracts the posters from the op and to your rude comment
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I actually would like to see some stricter rules and some more bans. In any case, TL has by far the best moderation when it comes to gaming sites, and it is one of the reasons I visit this site on a daily basis.
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On September 27 2010 15:07 skeldark wrote:
ok. after i read your post i was thinking:" what can you awnser to this..."
let me try it.
There can not be any accepatble way!
No human or group should ever have the power to say what ideas should be disallowed.
Im from germany and in our history you can see how this is ending.
And whatever "acceptable way" you think of, its make by humans.
This means human decide what ideas are allowed to think/say by other humans.
I think people like you should be allowed to say that they dont want freedom of speach and thinking.
Because i think allowing such bad and dangerous ideas is the only way to never let them be reality again.
but we've already agreed on ideas that are acceptably dangerous to outlaw. you're not allowed to yell fire in a crowded building, because a big enough percentage of the population agrees that that is dangerous enough to justify giving up free speech, in that case.
but you're right that on most issues it isnt practical, we'll never be able to have a fair system that also bans extremist islam or the shit glenn beck spews, im just saying that in an ideal world we should.
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United States22883 Posts
On September 27 2010 15:25 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 15:07 skeldark wrote:
ok. after i read your post i was thinking:" what can you awnser to this..."
let me try it.
There can not be any accepatble way!
No human or group should ever have the power to say what ideas should be disallowed.
Im from germany and in our history you can see how this is ending.
And whatever "acceptable way" you think of, its make by humans.
This means human decide what ideas are allowed to think/say by other humans.
I think people like you should be allowed to say that they dont want freedom of speach and thinking.
Because i think allowing such bad and dangerous ideas is the only way to never let them be reality again.
but we've already agreed on ideas that are acceptably dangerous to outlaw. you're not allowed to yell fire in a crowded building, because a big enough percentage of the population agrees that that is dangerous enough to justify giving up free speech, in that case. but you're right that on most issues it isnt practical, we'll never be able to have a fair system that also bans extremist islam or the shit glenn beck spews, im just saying that in an ideal world we should. I think a lot of social/political constructions go this way. :/ Choose the least bad at the time, and hope it stays that way.
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Not sure if this thread was a huge troll or not, since it is a fairly low post count member starting a fairly questionable thread if you ask me.
That being said, the reason why TL has been able to remain a quality forum for so long is because of great moderation, and I think every post in this thread can attest to that. I've always felt, that if you insult another member or do something stupid, you're gonna get warned. If it's a pattern, you'll get banned. I'll admit that I haven't read all of the forum guidelines, but I try to think before I type, and the only times I've been warned is when I didn't, which seems fair to me.
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On September 27 2010 15:25 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2010 15:07 skeldark wrote:
ok. after i read your post i was thinking:" what can you awnser to this..."
let me try it.
There can not be any accepatble way!
No human or group should ever have the power to say what ideas should be disallowed.
Im from germany and in our history you can see how this is ending.
And whatever "acceptable way" you think of, its make by humans.
This means human decide what ideas are allowed to think/say by other humans.
I think people like you should be allowed to say that they dont want freedom of speach and thinking.
Because i think allowing such bad and dangerous ideas is the only way to never let them be reality again.
but we've already agreed on ideas that are acceptably dangerous to outlaw. you're not allowed to yell fire in a crowded building, because a big enough percentage of the population agrees that that is dangerous enough to justify giving up free speech, in that case. but you're right that on most issues it isnt practical, we'll never be able to have a fair system that also bans extremist islam or the shit glenn beck spews, im just saying that in an ideal world we should.
But who says its right to ban extremist islam? You cant argue like that. From their perspective they are just freedom fighters. Now you can argue that they are terrorists, but im pretty sure hitler argued that, that times freedomfighters were terrorists aswell. Winners write biased history and in a 100 years we might just think back at USA and democracy as the most retarded thing in the world. (this is by no means my opinion, just an example)
Problem is, you cannot argue against freedom of speech in anyway since you will always be biased. Therefor you will just have to allow everything. Im from denmark and we've taken a pretty big beating for freedom of speech.
What im saying is, your ideal world is probably not everyones ideal world.
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On September 25 2010 06:16 archaik wrote:
I think they moderation is pretty arbitrary and strange. I criticized Artosis for whining about imbalance in one thread and got a warning for it, like wtf? It feels like you can't criticize certain people (Idra, Artosis, tasteless etc).
On September 25 2010 06:24 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 19:49 archaik wrote:
Artosis: whine whine bitch bitch. What a dork he is. Tasteless needs a new co-commentator.
User was warned for this post You be the judge.
Thread over, can this shit please die already? Every time I come to TL and see that this thread is still getting replies, I die a little inside.
Seriously, I thought there was consensus on this? TL's modus operandi of common sense, of not allowing poor quality threads, of not allowing bullshit, and of holding themselves and everyone contributing to the site to a higher standard than is usual for an internet forum breeds quality content, and that's why it's the best pro gaming site on the internet. Why, then, is this thread still going? When I first saw it pop up last winter some time, I thought it would be summarily rejected and ignored, not accumulate 25 pages of debate.
Is TL too strict?
I wrote a post where I literally told low level diamond players that they need to shut their bile holes and stop forming opinions because they're a pack of phenomenal idiots, then questioned the size of their dicks. When a mod did drop by, it was to post in agreement. I wasn't warned or banned.
Looking at the post, it's easy to see why. Content, context, posting in the right area, having a point, humour, self-deprecation, effort. It's about how you say it, and when and where you say it. That's why you're free to share your gripes about TvZ imbalance in LaLuSh's TvZ thread (as long as you formulate your opinion properly and without excess bile), but not in the fucking live report thread. To quote the TL commandments: Common sense.
And if you're still complaining that you can't express your opinions on certain people without repercussion, I once criticised Tasteless' casting. I wasn't warned or banned, because it's not hard to not be a dick about it.
So, no. TL is not too strict. They don't restrict opinions. They don't restrict criticism or negativity (although they commendably encourage the opposite). They barely even restrict freedom of speech. They reject bullshit, nothing more. Stop making them defend themselves against baseless accusations and let them get back to making the TL forums awesome.
To finalize my point in a single paragraph: I just spent 30 pointless minutes crafting and editing this post and manually adding [i] tags to words I wanted to emphasise. I'm not saying you have to be an obsessive-compulsive freak with the Visual Thesaurus open on your taskbar every time you post here, only to be reasonable in your posting. It's not hard to make a post that won't get you banned.
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United States11393 Posts
This thread has run its course.
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EPT
