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@Fabled
It really wasn't necessary to repost the same thing I just replied too...
And to your other reply to my comment... I'm not going to take the time. My posts speak for themselves, no need to repost the same thing. If you don't understand basic things like Actually Having knowledge vs Actually having knowledge + Degree and if you want to actually turn this into a political debate when we're all just sharing our opinions on an event that happened in the world. Take a chill pill or reread what I meant because this is not a debate thread.  If your really interested, I'd be willing via PM to converse.
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On August 25 2010 04:31 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 03:17 Motiva wrote:
lol I can feel for her pain. I don't blame her for what she did. Furthermore all of the spoiled kids in this thread make me laugh. You people clearly are not aware of how difficult it is making $8/hr while being uninsurable in the private market...
This is just another day in a world where health maintenance requires insurance. Sure it works for the middle-uper and even some of the lower class, but the idea that because the system leaves out some people, that it's their fault. I know this might be a shock to many of you kids, but the real world is actually very difficult and unforgiving. Anyone sitting there making comments about this woman clearly deserve a punch in the face. :D What do you know about her life choices, her financial situation, her intelligence? Maybe she's just not very smart? Are you suddenly interested in attacking slow people?
My point is simply that the people in this thread are quick to point fingers, make comments, tell stories, but all these are is bias justification for your inability to relate.
Like the story above me about someone flying to a different country to get health services, over other health services... Ok, but what if you made $8/hr and had 2 kids and there wasn't socialized healthcare or hell, even cheap healthcare. Oh right you'd just do X Y Z and dodge the problem because you actually can't relate at all
/rant LOL so now I have to pay money because people aren't as smart as me? We should have a friggin' IQ test and I'll tank it on purpose to receive welfare from the government. Really? You really want to argue that people who are less smart are going to deserve my money because I'm smarter? Life isn't fair. I have my own life and I don't want it to be affected by other people's poor decisions. No, I don't know about her history and don't care to. She made her own choices in her life that led up to this situation.
Yeah man fucking stupid people always gotta be doing stupid stuff and making me pay for it. I mean, all those kids who were born with fetal alcohol syndrome because their mom was a drunkass bitch and dad just disappeared should just STAY homeless and crazy begging on the corner. When they come clean my house or mow my lawn or handle the radioactive waste produced by my electricity usage they should shut up and deal with it. If they were like ME they would just find a job and some other dumbfuck would have to do it and get the all the ass cancer that comes with it. I got to where I am by being BETTER than everyone else and working harder, I had to even go to public school man because my parents couldn't afford prep school like the other kids in my neighborhood. Why the fuck should I care if some poor person has a medical problem that she can't afford, tough cookie bitch.
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On August 25 2010 04:52 FabledIntegral wrote:
Why should I pay for someone else who broke their arm when skateboarding and needed to go to the hospital? Why should I pay for someone who has had a heart attack because they decided to continually eat terrible? Why should I pay for someone who has lung cancer because they smoked their entire life? They made their choices.
I guess there's no point discussing this any further. I think you should pay for those things because it's the right thing to do. Clearly you disagree.
Yeah, it's a tragedy that things happen to people as well that didn't make those choices and ended there anyways. But there's no reason I should be forced by law to pay for their disabilities. I assume all of you have at least a few extra dollars spending cash, why don't every single one of you donate ALL your money to Africa to save dying children? Your hypocrisy astounds me. The argument I've seen over and over is that it's "people's lives," etc. So now because of what country you live in lives are valued differently? The amount of money it takes to save one person from dying from cancer could save a hundred kids from starving each year in another country. Why not take 10% out of EVERYONE'S paychecks from now on to help them? There's a difference between killing someone and failing to save someone. One is causing something and the other is omission of action. And I know a lot of you have some extra cash or you wouldn't have any internet access.
Well, it's difficult to snap your fingers and save a dying child; a few dollars doesn't literally translate to a life saved. A few hundred might. I donate a chunk of money to tuberculosis vaccines and immunization via GiveWell, which ranks charities by efficacy. I don't donate it all because I'm selfish and human. I'm not bragging, though; I think it would be a lot more moral and admirable for me to donate almost all of it.
I don't understand how you defend yourself for not helping people enough, by attacking others for not helping them enough. We should all be helping.
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On August 25 2010 02:05 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2010 22:46 Floophead_III wrote:
People shouldn't have to make $8/hour handling toxic waste if they didn't sit around smoking dope for 35 years.
This is America, there is no excuse why anybody ever should have that kind of job at her age. Are you saying all the younger people should be working these jobs? She was younger once too but working a job like that usually leads to continuing to work a job like that. Or are you saying that no one in America should be working these jobs? Somebody has to do them. It's true that you can look at any individual and find a way for them to achieve a good career but you can't look at a nation and find a way for every citizen to have a good career, even if they're all willing and able. Lots and lots of shitty jobs are out there and they need to be done. You shouldn't devalue and trash the person who ends up with a shitty job.
Well, the fact is that perhaps times are tough at a point, or someone has dicked off all through school (or just dropped out) and honestly did nothing, they can land a job like that just to live. But after a few years, they should be looking to move out since it is NOT a job you should take for the long term. Either move up to management level, look for a different company - hell, move to another area. People get complacent and then when their decisions bite them in the ass they bitch and moan. You could see this problem coming from 20 years away.
And then of course people like that should think twice before starting a family. There's no way to support kids, have them grow up with a proper environment, and have them grow up to be beneficial for society and successful if you don't have the income. Honestly, I know it's harsh, but poor people shouldn't have kids. If you can't provide for them, don't have them. Focus on getting your own shit together first.
The fact is, I see people do jack shit all day and still pick up a real job at age 18. They probably live better lives than she does. It can't be that hard.
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I don't have health insurance and I've never been denied, in fact as far as I know the hospital must treat your injuries no matter how simple. Hell I've been to the ER for plenty of things that were not life threatening. The ER is a surefire way to get treated if you have no money or insurance, it will leave you with a massive bill that you can either pay or not pay, but you will get treated. P.S. not paying nets you annoying people calling you 5x a day.
it's obv there's a lot of people in this thread who never had to deal with these issues because their parents take care of everything for them, you shouldn't be talking down on anyone if your parents are making you who you are considering you haven't done shit to be where you are.
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On August 25 2010 04:29 Ome wrote:Show nested quote +
PS. My aunt died of breast cancer. She lived in Canada. Her scheduled mammogram (when she just turned 50) made her wait months to actually get in. If she was in the United States and got in immediately they would have detected the cancer sooner and she would have had a better shot at living. My grandfather also had a critical eye injury that they wanted to make him wait over 3 weeks in order to get surgery (which is very short compared to normal wait lists in Canada for surgery, save life threatening ones). He flew to the US to get it done. To save his vision. The Canadian system sucks dick.
The Canadian system is just fine. My mother and her 2 sisters have mammograms regularly, when their doctors recommend them. They have not had to wait months for them. If your family physician suspects something they will bump you right up (like they did for my mom, but found nothing cancerous). My father passed out and hit his head on a metal railing due to kidney failure, was set up on a dialysis program that still allowed him to work and all at no cost out of his pocket. He since had a kidney transplant and the anti-rejection drugs are no cost to him. My grandfather has had two heart attacks, a quadruple bypass, had a vein in his leg transplanted to his heart, and takes 7 different pills at various times in the week for his condition. And he is retired and able to live comfortably. At age 15, my brother was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, which means his pancreas no longer produces insulin, which we all need. The insulin he needs, the doctor and specialist doctor visits he needs are all covered by our national healthcare system. I had my tonsils removed in 1993, I haven't been to the hospital for myself since then, and I gladly pay my share of the taxes that go towards the healthcare in this nation. I'm sorry that your aunt's diagnosis may have been screwed up, she had a shitty doctor, or whatever happened there, but to generalize an entire system because of one instance is the same as me generalizing the system as perfect because it has been good to my family. It has its flaws, I agree, but it and every other first world health care system is better than America's system. I'm not saying the doctors or specialists or nurses are bad, some of the finest in the world work in America, but the insurance system you have is terrible and this most recent healthcare reform bill has done very little to make it comparable to the rest of the civilized world.
Good post, I have a really hard time believing everything that "fabledintegral" said, there has to be something else to that story. Some of my good friends live in Canada now and they are absolutely happy about the healthcare and education system.
On August 25 2010 05:02 muse5187 wrote:
I don't have health insurance and I've never been denied, in fact as far as I know the hospital must treat your injuries no matter how simple. Hell I've been to the ER for plenty of things that were not life threatening. The ER is a surefire way to get treated if you have no money or insurance, it will leave you with a massive bill that you can either pay or not pay, but you will get treated. P.S. not paying nets you annoying people calling you 5x a day.
it's obv there's a lot of people in this thread who never had to deal with these issues because their parents take care of everything for them, you shouldn't be talking down on anyone if your parents are making you who you are considering you haven't done shit to be where you are.
Agree with this, I've been to ER multiple times and they do everything that they have to, blood work, x-rays, mris, cat scans, operations regardless of whether you have insurance or not.
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Some of you heartless people really need to live in pain for a couple of years to put the real world in perspective. You've lived an extremely lucky life if you're healthy and make decent wage. The attitude that some people have that they don't want to pay for others is simply unacceptable. Other people help you live your life, that's what society is about. If you can't even find it in you to pay like an additional dollar a month to help save peoples lives you are truly truly sick and disguisting as a person. If you hate cooperation between people (economically or in what ever way) then why don't you live outside of society? Build a hut from sticks you find in the woods and eat only what you hunt. Half of you pretentious pricks that whine about miniscule taxes wouldn't even be able to survive in the wild if you were forced to.
Alot of people here also live in the fantasy world where everything is fair and if someone is poor or has a hard time it must be their fault. It seems like people can't understand that not everyone has a father that pays your way through college and gets you a job at his firm etc. Some people that are in trouble (medically or economically) really has just had a fucking shitty chance at life. To not help these people based ont he illusion that they had good chances that they fucked up due to lazyness or that they have made bad choices is just appalling.
People have their right to difference in opinion. If you say you don't want to pay a dime to less fortunate people then by all means go ahead and have that opinion. But don't try make it seem like you're morally superior or what you are doing is actually good for the society. Its pure selfishness and inability to comprehend very simple facts.
Take note that this isn't directed to anyone in this thread specifically. But in every single one of these threads this type of person comes in and tries to undermine the entire point of health care and financial aid. Just because a very small ammount of people use the system to get things for free (which isn't easy if the system is regulated properly) that isn't a good enough reason to not help people who are living in pain and suffering.
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On August 25 2010 05:10 StarBrift wrote:
Some of you heartless people really need to live in pain for a couple of years to put the real world in perspective. You've lived an extremely lucky life if you're healthy and make decent wage. The attitude that some people have that they don't want to pay for others is simply unacceptable. Other people help you live your life, that's what society is about. If you can't even find it in you to pay like an additional dollar a month to help save peoples lives you are truly truly sick and disguisting as a person. If you hate cooperation between people (economically or in what ever way) then why don't you live outside of society? Build a hut from sticks you find in the woods and eat only what you hunt. Half of you pretentious pricks that whine about miniscule taxes wouldn't even be able to survive in the wild if you were forced to.
Alot of people here also live in the fantasy world where everything is fair and if someone is poor or has a hard time it must be their fault. It seems like people can't understand that not everyone has a father that pays your way through college and gets you a job at his firm etc. Some people that are in trouble (medically or economically) really has just had a fucking shitty chance at life. To not help these people based ont he illusion that they had good chances that they fucked up due to lazyness or that they have made bad choices is just appalling.
People have their right to difference in opinion. If you say you don't want to pay a dime to less fortunate people then by all means go ahead and have that opinion. But don't try make it seem like you're morally superior or what you are doing is actually good for the society. Its pure selfishness and inability to comprehend very simple facts.
Take note that this isn't directed to anyone in this thread specifically. But in every single one of these threads this type of person comes in and tries to undermine the entire point of health care and financial aid. Just because a very small ammount of people use the system to get things for free (which isn't easy if the system is regulated properly) that isn't a good enough reason to not help people who are living in pain and suffering.
This is basically what I was thinking, thank you for posting.
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On August 25 2010 05:09 News wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 04:29 Ome wrote:
PS. My aunt died of breast cancer. She lived in Canada. Her scheduled mammogram (when she just turned 50) made her wait months to actually get in. If she was in the United States and got in immediately they would have detected the cancer sooner and she would have had a better shot at living. My grandfather also had a critical eye injury that they wanted to make him wait over 3 weeks in order to get surgery (which is very short compared to normal wait lists in Canada for surgery, save life threatening ones). He flew to the US to get it done. To save his vision. The Canadian system sucks dick.
The Canadian system is just fine. My mother and her 2 sisters have mammograms regularly, when their doctors recommend them. They have not had to wait months for them. If your family physician suspects something they will bump you right up (like they did for my mom, but found nothing cancerous). My father passed out and hit his head on a metal railing due to kidney failure, was set up on a dialysis program that still allowed him to work and all at no cost out of his pocket. He since had a kidney transplant and the anti-rejection drugs are no cost to him. My grandfather has had two heart attacks, a quadruple bypass, had a vein in his leg transplanted to his heart, and takes 7 different pills at various times in the week for his condition. And he is retired and able to live comfortably. At age 15, my brother was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, which means his pancreas no longer produces insulin, which we all need. The insulin he needs, the doctor and specialist doctor visits he needs are all covered by our national healthcare system. I had my tonsils removed in 1993, I haven't been to the hospital for myself since then, and I gladly pay my share of the taxes that go towards the healthcare in this nation. I'm sorry that your aunt's diagnosis may have been screwed up, she had a shitty doctor, or whatever happened there, but to generalize an entire system because of one instance is the same as me generalizing the system as perfect because it has been good to my family. It has its flaws, I agree, but it and every other first world health care system is better than America's system. I'm not saying the doctors or specialists or nurses are bad, some of the finest in the world work in America, but the insurance system you have is terrible and this most recent healthcare reform bill has done very little to make it comparable to the rest of the civilized world. Good post, I have a really hard time believing everything that "fabledintegral" said, there has to be something else to that story. Some of my good friends live in Canada now and they are absolutely happy about the healthcare and education system.
Yeah, the whole you'll die from disease because canada makes you wait for this or that and has "death panels" is typical propaganda from a certain political party in america, these "claims" are directed towards the uneducated and ignorant as a way to block any type of reform. You'll notice these people are always repeating some dumb crap they heard on FOX, and they will believe it. Yea, most of this is directed at fabledignorance and company. Anyway guys enjoy your life of privilege, and keep telling yourself you deserve it!
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On August 25 2010 04:46 Motiva wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 04:31 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 25 2010 03:17 Motiva wrote:
lol I can feel for her pain. I don't blame her for what she did. Furthermore all of the spoiled kids in this thread make me laugh. You people clearly are not aware of how difficult it is making $8/hr while being uninsurable in the private market...
This is just another day in a world where health maintenance requires insurance. Sure it works for the middle-uper and even some of the lower class, but the idea that because the system leaves out some people, that it's their fault. I know this might be a shock to many of you kids, but the real world is actually very difficult and unforgiving. Anyone sitting there making comments about this woman clearly deserve a punch in the face. :D What do you know about her life choices, her financial situation, her intelligence? Maybe she's just not very smart? Are you suddenly interested in attacking slow people?
My point is simply that the people in this thread are quick to point fingers, make comments, tell stories, but all these are is bias justification for your inability to relate.
Like the story above me about someone flying to a different country to get health services, over other health services... Ok, but what if you made $8/hr and had 2 kids and there wasn't socialized healthcare or hell, even cheap healthcare. Oh right you'd just do X Y Z and dodge the problem because you actually can't relate at all
/rant LOL so now I have to pay money because people aren't as smart as me? We should have a friggin' IQ test and I'll tank it on purpose to receive welfare from the government. Really? You really want to argue that people who are less smart are going to deserve my money because I'm smarter? Life isn't fair. I have my own life and I don't want it to be affected by other people's poor decisions. No, I don't know about her history and don't care to. She made her own choices in her life that led up to this situation. Well fortunately since you care so little, your opinion matters about as much.
Don't worry, your opinion is equally worthless to me, don't flatter yourself.
Do I really want to argue that people who are less smart deserve anything? No, I'm not sure I did anything to merit the sort...
You said her actions could potentially be justified if she were slow. There is no other way to interpret "you people need to be punched in the face ... maybe she just isn't very smart." Clearly you are arguing that she would deserve it because she isn't very smart. Please enlighten me on how it could be interpreted otherwise.
Are you interested in arguing things that have nothing to do with anything?
Arguing things that have nothing to do with anything. Bravo. Elaborate?
You don't want poor decisions affected your life, I don't want to have to reply to poorly thought out posts.
Your's has clearly been worse thus far.
Or we could stay on topic, and you could just read my words and take the meaning for what it is, instead of having to pretend i'm arguing something when I'm really just being like wtf @ all the bias in this thread. Suddenly a not very bright woman does something and theres a 10 page thread of well of people condemning her. I'm not asking you to pay her anything, and if someone says you have to pay her something, well then, complain to them, not to someone who has nothing to do with it. Me.
You clearly attempted to justify her actions in your post. You also incorporate how some people aren't living in the "real world" (because ours is fake..?) and would be "shocked." While that is just as much irrelevant in itself, it is compounding on the ideas already presented.
However, I must say it's a startling revelation that you don't want poor decisions caused by others to affect you... However, she made her own choices, we can both assume this, I'm down. However to say that her situation isn't affected by the same fucking retarded people making retarded decisions all over teh world is asinine. Not your point perhaps, but you made your point several posts ago, why are you asking me OT questions?
If you want to make the point that everyone's lives are affected by certain other people's choices, then that's fine. But that's not very (possibly minutely) relevant to the own choices she made in her own life. Presented with the options she had, whatever they were, she ended up in this situation. No one forced her into it, and that's the point, no one should force her to do anything, just as no one should force me to do anything because of what she does.
If you have a problem with my problem with people insisting on their superior world view, or interpreation there-of. So be it... Just making my point.
No, I was clearly debating. The "LOL" comment was merely in response to what I deemed to be a hilariously absurd notion.
On August 25 2010 05:00 Motiva wrote:@Fabled
It really wasn't necessary to repost the same thing I just replied too...And to your other reply to my comment... I'm not going to take the time. My posts speak for themselves, no need to repost the same thing. If you don't understand basic things like Actually Having knowledge vs Actually having knowledge + Degree and if you want to actually turn this into a political debate when we're all just sharing our opinions on an event that happened in the world. Take a chill pill or reread what I meant because this is not a debate thread. If your really interested, I'd be willing via PM to converse.
Accident, my mistake. And I have no idea on what your interpretation of "actually having knowledge" even is.
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On August 25 2010 05:10 StarBrift wrote:
Some of you heartless people really need to live in pain for a couple of years to put the real world in perspective. You've lived an extremely lucky life if you're healthy and make decent wage. The attitude that some people have that they don't want to pay for others is simply unacceptable. Other people help you live your life, that's what society is about. If you can't even find it in you to pay like an additional dollar a month to help save peoples lives you are truly truly sick and disguisting as a person. If you hate cooperation between people (economically or in what ever way) then why don't you live outside of society? Build a hut from sticks you find in the woods and eat only what you hunt. Half of you pretentious pricks that whine about miniscule taxes wouldn't even be able to survive in the wild if you were forced to.
Alot of people here also live in the fantasy world where everything is fair and if someone is poor or has a hard time it must be their fault. It seems like people can't understand that not everyone has a father that pays your way through college and gets you a job at his firm etc. Some people that are in trouble (medically or economically) really has just had a fucking shitty chance at life. To not help these people based ont he illusion that they had good chances that they fucked up due to lazyness or that they have made bad choices is just appalling.
People have their right to difference in opinion. If you say you don't want to pay a dime to less fortunate people then by all means go ahead and have that opinion. But don't try make it seem like you're morally superior or what you are doing is actually good for the society. Its pure selfishness and inability to comprehend very simple facts.
Take note that this isn't directed to anyone in this thread specifically. But in every single one of these threads this type of person comes in and tries to undermine the entire point of health care and financial aid. Just because a very small ammount of people use the system to get things for free (which isn't easy if the system is regulated properly) that isn't a good enough reason to not help people who are living in pain and suffering.
What you say sounds nice and all if only it were true.
First of all, taxes are barely considered to be "minute," and if it were the matter of merely paying a dollar I assure you almost no one would mind. But guess what, while some people are being taxed like ~8% of their salary like I am (and I have a $5,500 student loan out, so I'm not exactly swimming in money), others are paying over 50% of their salary. Don't say it's small, the accumulation of all the welfare taxes is CRAZY. Imagine your work telling you you're going to receive a $5,000 paycheck every 2 weeks and when you receive it... it's only $2,700. And guess why you're paying that much? Because some asshole you don't even know had a heart attack from eating too many double cheeseburgers and large fries.
Of course there are the few exceptions where people are fucked. You seem to be highly misguided on what you think [most Republicans] think of fairness. What most think is quite simply that the world isn't fair, but you can't use that as a reason to make everyone care about everyone else.
There's a massive difference between what you're saying as well and what I'm saying. I'm saying the government shouldn't FORCE people to pay a dime to the unfortunate. If people want to help their fellow members they should do it because they want to, not because they are forced to. I don't know how old you are, but say your country suddenly cuts 100% of its welfare and your paycheck now increases by 25%. Are you now going to donate that extra 25% back to welfare? Probably not. But it wouldn't be any different for you really and by your principles you should.
Please tell me why you aren't acting purely selfish for failing to donate your extra dollars to those in Africa who are starving. Maybe there's a fallacy in that argument but no one in this thread has yet to even attempt to address it. Are their lives worth less because they don't live in a certain imaginary border?
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On August 25 2010 05:21 muse5187 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 05:09 News wrote:On August 25 2010 04:29 Ome wrote:
PS. My aunt died of breast cancer. She lived in Canada. Her scheduled mammogram (when she just turned 50) made her wait months to actually get in. If she was in the United States and got in immediately they would have detected the cancer sooner and she would have had a better shot at living. My grandfather also had a critical eye injury that they wanted to make him wait over 3 weeks in order to get surgery (which is very short compared to normal wait lists in Canada for surgery, save life threatening ones). He flew to the US to get it done. To save his vision. The Canadian system sucks dick.
The Canadian system is just fine. My mother and her 2 sisters have mammograms regularly, when their doctors recommend them. They have not had to wait months for them. If your family physician suspects something they will bump you right up (like they did for my mom, but found nothing cancerous). My father passed out and hit his head on a metal railing due to kidney failure, was set up on a dialysis program that still allowed him to work and all at no cost out of his pocket. He since had a kidney transplant and the anti-rejection drugs are no cost to him. My grandfather has had two heart attacks, a quadruple bypass, had a vein in his leg transplanted to his heart, and takes 7 different pills at various times in the week for his condition. And he is retired and able to live comfortably. At age 15, my brother was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, which means his pancreas no longer produces insulin, which we all need. The insulin he needs, the doctor and specialist doctor visits he needs are all covered by our national healthcare system. I had my tonsils removed in 1993, I haven't been to the hospital for myself since then, and I gladly pay my share of the taxes that go towards the healthcare in this nation. I'm sorry that your aunt's diagnosis may have been screwed up, she had a shitty doctor, or whatever happened there, but to generalize an entire system because of one instance is the same as me generalizing the system as perfect because it has been good to my family. It has its flaws, I agree, but it and every other first world health care system is better than America's system. I'm not saying the doctors or specialists or nurses are bad, some of the finest in the world work in America, but the insurance system you have is terrible and this most recent healthcare reform bill has done very little to make it comparable to the rest of the civilized world. Good post, I have a really hard time believing everything that "fabledintegral" said, there has to be something else to that story. Some of my good friends live in Canada now and they are absolutely happy about the healthcare and education system. Yeah, the whole you'll die from disease because canada makes you wait for this or that and has "death panels" is typical propaganda from a certain political party in america, these "claims" are directed towards the uneducated and ignorant as a way to block any type of reform. You'll notice these people are always repeating some dumb crap they heard on FOX, and they will believe it. Yea, most of this is directed at fabledignorance and company. Anyway guys enjoy your life of privilege, and keep telling yourself you deserve it!
I never said you'll die from disease and I clearly stated that if it was fatal you would not have to wait. But thanks for rewording what I said. I also have a strong distaste for FOX news, and identify more towards Democratic policies than Republican.
EDIT: Fuck meeee triple post.
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On August 25 2010 05:36 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 05:10 StarBrift wrote:
Some of you heartless people really need to live in pain for a couple of years to put the real world in perspective. You've lived an extremely lucky life if you're healthy and make decent wage. The attitude that some people have that they don't want to pay for others is simply unacceptable. Other people help you live your life, that's what society is about. If you can't even find it in you to pay like an additional dollar a month to help save peoples lives you are truly truly sick and disguisting as a person. If you hate cooperation between people (economically or in what ever way) then why don't you live outside of society? Build a hut from sticks you find in the woods and eat only what you hunt. Half of you pretentious pricks that whine about miniscule taxes wouldn't even be able to survive in the wild if you were forced to.
Alot of people here also live in the fantasy world where everything is fair and if someone is poor or has a hard time it must be their fault. It seems like people can't understand that not everyone has a father that pays your way through college and gets you a job at his firm etc. Some people that are in trouble (medically or economically) really has just had a fucking shitty chance at life. To not help these people based ont he illusion that they had good chances that they fucked up due to lazyness or that they have made bad choices is just appalling.
People have their right to difference in opinion. If you say you don't want to pay a dime to less fortunate people then by all means go ahead and have that opinion. But don't try make it seem like you're morally superior or what you are doing is actually good for the society. Its pure selfishness and inability to comprehend very simple facts.
Take note that this isn't directed to anyone in this thread specifically. But in every single one of these threads this type of person comes in and tries to undermine the entire point of health care and financial aid. Just because a very small ammount of people use the system to get things for free (which isn't easy if the system is regulated properly) that isn't a good enough reason to not help people who are living in pain and suffering. What you say sounds nice and all if only it were true. First of all, taxes are barely considered to be "minute," and if it were the matter of merely paying a dollar I assure you almost no one would mind. But guess what, while some people are being taxed like ~8% of their salary like I am (and I have a $5,500 student loan out, so I'm not exactly swimming in money), others are paying over 50% of their salary. Don't say it's small, the accumulation of all the welfare taxes is CRAZY. Imagine your work telling you you're going to receive a $5,000 paycheck every 2 weeks and when you receive it... it's only $2,700. And guess why you're paying that much? Because some asshole you don't even know had a heart attack from eating too many double cheeseburgers and large fries. Of course there are the few exceptions where people are fucked. You seem to be highly misguided on what you think [most Republicans] think of fairness. What most think is quite simply that the world isn't fair, but you can't use that as a reason to make everyone care about everyone else. There's a massive difference between what you're saying as well and what I'm saying. I'm saying the government shouldn't FORCE people to pay a dime to the unfortunate. If people want to help their fellow members they should do it because they want to, not because they are forced to. I don't know how old you are, but say your country suddenly cuts 100% of its welfare and your paycheck now increases by 25%. Are you now going to donate that extra 25% back to welfare? Probably not. But it wouldn't be any different for you really and by your principles you should. Please tell me why you aren't acting purely selfish for failing to donate your extra dollars to those in Africa who are starving. Maybe there's a fallacy in that argument but no one in this thread has yet to even attempt to address it. Are their lives worth less because they don't live in a certain imaginary border?
No one is only paying 8% taxes in USA. So based on the fact that you're making false claims, I'm just goint to stop reading there. You obv. are some troll or kid that doesn't know anything about the world and real life. Also no one is getting income taxes at 50% since the maximum is 35% as of now. So please stop making up bullshit to support your point, it's so easy to spot. After the world wars, the top bracket was getting taxed 85%-93%!!! AND THEY ARE STILL FILTHY RICH.
What a great business student you are, don't even know tax brackets. Or did you make that up also to "support your view"?
I wasn't rewording anything you said, in fact that post wasn't even for you. But you do fit the bill for the ignoramus know it all part.
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On August 25 2010 05:40 muse5187 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 05:36 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 25 2010 05:10 StarBrift wrote:
Some of you heartless people really need to live in pain for a couple of years to put the real world in perspective. You've lived an extremely lucky life if you're healthy and make decent wage. The attitude that some people have that they don't want to pay for others is simply unacceptable. Other people help you live your life, that's what society is about. If you can't even find it in you to pay like an additional dollar a month to help save peoples lives you are truly truly sick and disguisting as a person. If you hate cooperation between people (economically or in what ever way) then why don't you live outside of society? Build a hut from sticks you find in the woods and eat only what you hunt. Half of you pretentious pricks that whine about miniscule taxes wouldn't even be able to survive in the wild if you were forced to.
Alot of people here also live in the fantasy world where everything is fair and if someone is poor or has a hard time it must be their fault. It seems like people can't understand that not everyone has a father that pays your way through college and gets you a job at his firm etc. Some people that are in trouble (medically or economically) really has just had a fucking shitty chance at life. To not help these people based ont he illusion that they had good chances that they fucked up due to lazyness or that they have made bad choices is just appalling.
People have their right to difference in opinion. If you say you don't want to pay a dime to less fortunate people then by all means go ahead and have that opinion. But don't try make it seem like you're morally superior or what you are doing is actually good for the society. Its pure selfishness and inability to comprehend very simple facts.
Take note that this isn't directed to anyone in this thread specifically. But in every single one of these threads this type of person comes in and tries to undermine the entire point of health care and financial aid. Just because a very small ammount of people use the system to get things for free (which isn't easy if the system is regulated properly) that isn't a good enough reason to not help people who are living in pain and suffering. What you say sounds nice and all if only it were true. First of all, taxes are barely considered to be "minute," and if it were the matter of merely paying a dollar I assure you almost no one would mind. But guess what, while some people are being taxed like ~8% of their salary like I am (and I have a $5,500 student loan out, so I'm not exactly swimming in money), others are paying over 50% of their salary. Don't say it's small, the accumulation of all the welfare taxes is CRAZY. Imagine your work telling you you're going to receive a $5,000 paycheck every 2 weeks and when you receive it... it's only $2,700. And guess why you're paying that much? Because some asshole you don't even know had a heart attack from eating too many double cheeseburgers and large fries. Of course there are the few exceptions where people are fucked. You seem to be highly misguided on what you think [most Republicans] think of fairness. What most think is quite simply that the world isn't fair, but you can't use that as a reason to make everyone care about everyone else. There's a massive difference between what you're saying as well and what I'm saying. I'm saying the government shouldn't FORCE people to pay a dime to the unfortunate. If people want to help their fellow members they should do it because they want to, not because they are forced to. I don't know how old you are, but say your country suddenly cuts 100% of its welfare and your paycheck now increases by 25%. Are you now going to donate that extra 25% back to welfare? Probably not. But it wouldn't be any different for you really and by your principles you should. Please tell me why you aren't acting purely selfish for failing to donate your extra dollars to those in Africa who are starving. Maybe there's a fallacy in that argument but no one in this thread has yet to even attempt to address it. Are their lives worth less because they don't live in a certain imaginary border? No one is only paying 8% taxes in USA. So based on the fact that you're making false claims, I'm just goint to stop reading there. You obv. are some troll or kid that doesn't know anything about the world and real life. Also no one is getting income taxes at 50% since the maximum is 35% as of now. So please stop making up bullshit to support your point, it's so easy to spot.
I am taxed around 9-10% on every paycheck. The maximum FEDERAL income tax is 35%.
I work at a CPA firm, my father is a CPA, and I am an accounting minor. Over 50% might have been a slight exaggeration, but far more accurate than you stating a specific false number. You sure you know what's easy to spot out?
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On August 25 2010 04:03 catamorphist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 02:02 FabledIntegral wrote:
And maybe your friends should have gotten
1. A better resume
2. A better GPA
3. Gone to more career fairs
4. Majored in a better field with more job openings
Guess what? I'm majoring in Business Economics. Job market is god awful for my major. Know what I did? Picked up a minor in accounting. Now I work for a CPA firm and have a side job as a valet on Fri/Sat nights. I'm aware there's unemployment. But out of every 100 looking for jobs, only ~15 can't find them. So how about you don't be in the bottom 15%. I assure you if they had gotten a 3.5 of above they would have no trouble finding jobs. Are they also being smart about it? When they apply to Ralphs, does their resume say that they graduated with a bachelors? If it does, they need to stop being stupid and take it off their resume. Most employers for basic retail will immediately discard your resume if you're a college graduate - because they are overqualified.
Play the market. Sell yourself. Maybe they should have, but there are more people than jobs. If they were all twice as good at marketing themselves and had a flawless academic record, they'd just edge out a dozen other candidates from the pool, and then we'd be talking about those people, instead. Fundamentally, I don't understand why you are committed to this view where if you haven't done all these things, you then deserve to toil in shit and shouldn't get any sympathy. I think that's immoral. I don't think it's reasonable to leave hard-working poor people without any accessible health care because they didn't go to enough career fairs or (gasp) didn't attend college.
That's why you work hard when you're young...you work hard early in life, you can relax more later. you slack off early in life you will pay for it later an have to work harder. the world isn't perfect, people will always suffer. No one likes suffering, but in order for there to be rich there must be poor and vice versa. In order for there to be a normal there must be an abnormal. If there is a smart there has to be a stupid, or more stupid. In order for there to be a diamond league, there must be a copper league.This is how things are. I don't like it but its not gonna solve the root problem.
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On August 25 2010 05:45 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 05:40 muse5187 wrote:On August 25 2010 05:36 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 25 2010 05:10 StarBrift wrote:
Some of you heartless people really need to live in pain for a couple of years to put the real world in perspective. You've lived an extremely lucky life if you're healthy and make decent wage. The attitude that some people have that they don't want to pay for others is simply unacceptable. Other people help you live your life, that's what society is about. If you can't even find it in you to pay like an additional dollar a month to help save peoples lives you are truly truly sick and disguisting as a person. If you hate cooperation between people (economically or in what ever way) then why don't you live outside of society? Build a hut from sticks you find in the woods and eat only what you hunt. Half of you pretentious pricks that whine about miniscule taxes wouldn't even be able to survive in the wild if you were forced to.
Alot of people here also live in the fantasy world where everything is fair and if someone is poor or has a hard time it must be their fault. It seems like people can't understand that not everyone has a father that pays your way through college and gets you a job at his firm etc. Some people that are in trouble (medically or economically) really has just had a fucking shitty chance at life. To not help these people based ont he illusion that they had good chances that they fucked up due to lazyness or that they have made bad choices is just appalling.
People have their right to difference in opinion. If you say you don't want to pay a dime to less fortunate people then by all means go ahead and have that opinion. But don't try make it seem like you're morally superior or what you are doing is actually good for the society. Its pure selfishness and inability to comprehend very simple facts.
Take note that this isn't directed to anyone in this thread specifically. But in every single one of these threads this type of person comes in and tries to undermine the entire point of health care and financial aid. Just because a very small ammount of people use the system to get things for free (which isn't easy if the system is regulated properly) that isn't a good enough reason to not help people who are living in pain and suffering. What you say sounds nice and all if only it were true. First of all, taxes are barely considered to be "minute," and if it were the matter of merely paying a dollar I assure you almost no one would mind. But guess what, while some people are being taxed like ~8% of their salary like I am (and I have a $5,500 student loan out, so I'm not exactly swimming in money), others are paying over 50% of their salary. Don't say it's small, the accumulation of all the welfare taxes is CRAZY. Imagine your work telling you you're going to receive a $5,000 paycheck every 2 weeks and when you receive it... it's only $2,700. And guess why you're paying that much? Because some asshole you don't even know had a heart attack from eating too many double cheeseburgers and large fries. Of course there are the few exceptions where people are fucked. You seem to be highly misguided on what you think [most Republicans] think of fairness. What most think is quite simply that the world isn't fair, but you can't use that as a reason to make everyone care about everyone else. There's a massive difference between what you're saying as well and what I'm saying. I'm saying the government shouldn't FORCE people to pay a dime to the unfortunate. If people want to help their fellow members they should do it because they want to, not because they are forced to. I don't know how old you are, but say your country suddenly cuts 100% of its welfare and your paycheck now increases by 25%. Are you now going to donate that extra 25% back to welfare? Probably not. But it wouldn't be any different for you really and by your principles you should. Please tell me why you aren't acting purely selfish for failing to donate your extra dollars to those in Africa who are starving. Maybe there's a fallacy in that argument but no one in this thread has yet to even attempt to address it. Are their lives worth less because they don't live in a certain imaginary border? No one is only paying 8% taxes in USA. So based on the fact that you're making false claims, I'm just goint to stop reading there. You obv. are some troll or kid that doesn't know anything about the world and real life. Also no one is getting income taxes at 50% since the maximum is 35% as of now. So please stop making up bullshit to support your point, it's so easy to spot. I am taxed around 9-10% on every paycheck. The maximum FEDERAL income tax is 35%. I work at a CPA firm, my father is a CPA, and I am an accounting minor. Over 50% might have been a slight exaggeration, but far more accurate than you stating a specific false number. You sure you know what's easy to spot out?
If you're getting taxed 10% you're making under 5.8k a year, in which i suggest you get a new job and "stop taking the first job that comes around".
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On August 25 2010 05:46 muse5187 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 05:45 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 25 2010 05:40 muse5187 wrote:On August 25 2010 05:36 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 25 2010 05:10 StarBrift wrote:
Some of you heartless people really need to live in pain for a couple of years to put the real world in perspective. You've lived an extremely lucky life if you're healthy and make decent wage. The attitude that some people have that they don't want to pay for others is simply unacceptable. Other people help you live your life, that's what society is about. If you can't even find it in you to pay like an additional dollar a month to help save peoples lives you are truly truly sick and disguisting as a person. If you hate cooperation between people (economically or in what ever way) then why don't you live outside of society? Build a hut from sticks you find in the woods and eat only what you hunt. Half of you pretentious pricks that whine about miniscule taxes wouldn't even be able to survive in the wild if you were forced to.
Alot of people here also live in the fantasy world where everything is fair and if someone is poor or has a hard time it must be their fault. It seems like people can't understand that not everyone has a father that pays your way through college and gets you a job at his firm etc. Some people that are in trouble (medically or economically) really has just had a fucking shitty chance at life. To not help these people based ont he illusion that they had good chances that they fucked up due to lazyness or that they have made bad choices is just appalling.
People have their right to difference in opinion. If you say you don't want to pay a dime to less fortunate people then by all means go ahead and have that opinion. But don't try make it seem like you're morally superior or what you are doing is actually good for the society. Its pure selfishness and inability to comprehend very simple facts.
Take note that this isn't directed to anyone in this thread specifically. But in every single one of these threads this type of person comes in and tries to undermine the entire point of health care and financial aid. Just because a very small ammount of people use the system to get things for free (which isn't easy if the system is regulated properly) that isn't a good enough reason to not help people who are living in pain and suffering. What you say sounds nice and all if only it were true. First of all, taxes are barely considered to be "minute," and if it were the matter of merely paying a dollar I assure you almost no one would mind. But guess what, while some people are being taxed like ~8% of their salary like I am (and I have a $5,500 student loan out, so I'm not exactly swimming in money), others are paying over 50% of their salary. Don't say it's small, the accumulation of all the welfare taxes is CRAZY. Imagine your work telling you you're going to receive a $5,000 paycheck every 2 weeks and when you receive it... it's only $2,700. And guess why you're paying that much? Because some asshole you don't even know had a heart attack from eating too many double cheeseburgers and large fries. Of course there are the few exceptions where people are fucked. You seem to be highly misguided on what you think [most Republicans] think of fairness. What most think is quite simply that the world isn't fair, but you can't use that as a reason to make everyone care about everyone else. There's a massive difference between what you're saying as well and what I'm saying. I'm saying the government shouldn't FORCE people to pay a dime to the unfortunate. If people want to help their fellow members they should do it because they want to, not because they are forced to. I don't know how old you are, but say your country suddenly cuts 100% of its welfare and your paycheck now increases by 25%. Are you now going to donate that extra 25% back to welfare? Probably not. But it wouldn't be any different for you really and by your principles you should. Please tell me why you aren't acting purely selfish for failing to donate your extra dollars to those in Africa who are starving. Maybe there's a fallacy in that argument but no one in this thread has yet to even attempt to address it. Are their lives worth less because they don't live in a certain imaginary border? No one is only paying 8% taxes in USA. So based on the fact that you're making false claims, I'm just goint to stop reading there. You obv. are some troll or kid that doesn't know anything about the world and real life. Also no one is getting income taxes at 50% since the maximum is 35% as of now. So please stop making up bullshit to support your point, it's so easy to spot. I am taxed around 9-10% on every paycheck. The maximum FEDERAL income tax is 35%. I work at a CPA firm, my father is a CPA, and I am an accounting minor. Over 50% might have been a slight exaggeration, but far more accurate than you stating a specific false number. You sure you know what's easy to spot out? If you're getting taxed 10% you're making under 5.8k a year, in which i suggest you get a new job and "stop taking the first job that comes around".
So you agree, both arguments you used to support your claims that I was wrong were entirely false?
User was warned for this post
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On August 25 2010 05:51 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 05:46 muse5187 wrote:On August 25 2010 05:45 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 25 2010 05:40 muse5187 wrote:On August 25 2010 05:36 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 25 2010 05:10 StarBrift wrote:
Some of you heartless people really need to live in pain for a couple of years to put the real world in perspective. You've lived an extremely lucky life if you're healthy and make decent wage. The attitude that some people have that they don't want to pay for others is simply unacceptable. Other people help you live your life, that's what society is about. If you can't even find it in you to pay like an additional dollar a month to help save peoples lives you are truly truly sick and disguisting as a person. If you hate cooperation between people (economically or in what ever way) then why don't you live outside of society? Build a hut from sticks you find in the woods and eat only what you hunt. Half of you pretentious pricks that whine about miniscule taxes wouldn't even be able to survive in the wild if you were forced to.
Alot of people here also live in the fantasy world where everything is fair and if someone is poor or has a hard time it must be their fault. It seems like people can't understand that not everyone has a father that pays your way through college and gets you a job at his firm etc. Some people that are in trouble (medically or economically) really has just had a fucking shitty chance at life. To not help these people based ont he illusion that they had good chances that they fucked up due to lazyness or that they have made bad choices is just appalling.
People have their right to difference in opinion. If you say you don't want to pay a dime to less fortunate people then by all means go ahead and have that opinion. But don't try make it seem like you're morally superior or what you are doing is actually good for the society. Its pure selfishness and inability to comprehend very simple facts.
Take note that this isn't directed to anyone in this thread specifically. But in every single one of these threads this type of person comes in and tries to undermine the entire point of health care and financial aid. Just because a very small ammount of people use the system to get things for free (which isn't easy if the system is regulated properly) that isn't a good enough reason to not help people who are living in pain and suffering. What you say sounds nice and all if only it were true. First of all, taxes are barely considered to be "minute," and if it were the matter of merely paying a dollar I assure you almost no one would mind. But guess what, while some people are being taxed like ~8% of their salary like I am (and I have a $5,500 student loan out, so I'm not exactly swimming in money), others are paying over 50% of their salary. Don't say it's small, the accumulation of all the welfare taxes is CRAZY. Imagine your work telling you you're going to receive a $5,000 paycheck every 2 weeks and when you receive it... it's only $2,700. And guess why you're paying that much? Because some asshole you don't even know had a heart attack from eating too many double cheeseburgers and large fries. Of course there are the few exceptions where people are fucked. You seem to be highly misguided on what you think [most Republicans] think of fairness. What most think is quite simply that the world isn't fair, but you can't use that as a reason to make everyone care about everyone else. There's a massive difference between what you're saying as well and what I'm saying. I'm saying the government shouldn't FORCE people to pay a dime to the unfortunate. If people want to help their fellow members they should do it because they want to, not because they are forced to. I don't know how old you are, but say your country suddenly cuts 100% of its welfare and your paycheck now increases by 25%. Are you now going to donate that extra 25% back to welfare? Probably not. But it wouldn't be any different for you really and by your principles you should. Please tell me why you aren't acting purely selfish for failing to donate your extra dollars to those in Africa who are starving. Maybe there's a fallacy in that argument but no one in this thread has yet to even attempt to address it. Are their lives worth less because they don't live in a certain imaginary border? No one is only paying 8% taxes in USA. So based on the fact that you're making false claims, I'm just goint to stop reading there. You obv. are some troll or kid that doesn't know anything about the world and real life. Also no one is getting income taxes at 50% since the maximum is 35% as of now. So please stop making up bullshit to support your point, it's so easy to spot. I am taxed around 9-10% on every paycheck. The maximum FEDERAL income tax is 35%. I work at a CPA firm, my father is a CPA, and I am an accounting minor. Over 50% might have been a slight exaggeration, but far more accurate than you stating a specific false number. You sure you know what's easy to spot out? If you're getting taxed 10% you're making under 5.8k a year, in which i suggest you get a new job and "stop taking the first job that comes around". So you agree, both arguments you used to support your claims that I was wrong were entirely false?
Nope, like i said before no one is getting taxed as low as 8% and also no one is getting taxed even remotely close to 50%. How do you not understand? Is there something wrong with you? Why do you make things up to support your views? Are you that brainless? I understand it's hard to argue something thats completely false so why don't you just call it a day and go play outside with your friends.
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On August 25 2010 04:57 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 04:32 EpiCenteR wrote:On August 25 2010 04:16 Offhand wrote:On August 25 2010 03:16 EpiCenteR wrote:On August 25 2010 00:40 catamorphist wrote:On August 25 2010 00:29 EpiCenteR wrote:
Sad story indeed. However, it does not justify stealing other peoples money to fix it. On August 25 2010 00:29 thrslimde wrote:
But there is a undeniable truth, which is that every person with a serious health issue (and that also includes non-lethal issues that mess up your live or prevent you from living it normally) needs a treatment.
And this truth ends with a fullstop. There are no if's in it. To me there is no argument that could ever be made to counter this statement. And any health care system should fullfil this, even if that means that we need to pay 50% income tax, smoke Cuban cigars all day, and wear oversized sunglasses. Even if the system gets abused as shit. Even if the uncovered people are immigrants. Even if it would destroy the economy, crash the stock exchange and destroys millions of jobs. Just contrasting the previous two posts. There's a real value issue here. Saying it's "stealing" doesn't convince anyone, and neither does saying "any health care system should fulfill this." This is why I don't think serious reform is coming in this generation; half of the population couldn't give a shit about "fairness" or "justice" when it gets in the way of people's health, and the other half couldn't give a shit if their neighbor curls up and dies when it gets in the way of fairness. You can't really reconcile these two positions easily. Whats "fair" and "just" about forcefully confiscating ones property (money) and giving to to another which did not earn it? If I see someone hurting, or needing help, I will do what I can to help out another person. I am sure most people are the same. However, one should not use the heavy and omnipotent hand of the State to fix social "problems". They can and do for other social institutions. Schools, police, medicare/medicaid. How is this any different? Shouldn't we stop these existing institutions because they too force you to pay money for the benefit of others? Tell me, what exactly would you be giving up for this person to receive basic medical treatment? There's only really two things driving the people that seem to blame this women, greed and ignorance of reality. I know they do, and I disagree with all the programs you quoted. I do not want, or support, any government program that is funded by theft and coercion. Do you know what I would give up? For one, my property would be forcefully confiscated from me for the arcane "greater good". Secondly, with every government program comes a loss of liberty. Every mandate, program, regulation, etc that is put in place by the leviathan state chips away at my freedom. Then by all means find some open desert where you can live out your anarcho-libertarian fantasies.
Want to actually try to refute what I said?
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On August 25 2010 05:56 EpiCenteR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 04:57 Offhand wrote:On August 25 2010 04:32 EpiCenteR wrote:On August 25 2010 04:16 Offhand wrote:On August 25 2010 03:16 EpiCenteR wrote:On August 25 2010 00:40 catamorphist wrote:On August 25 2010 00:29 EpiCenteR wrote:
Sad story indeed. However, it does not justify stealing other peoples money to fix it. On August 25 2010 00:29 thrslimde wrote:
But there is a undeniable truth, which is that every person with a serious health issue (and that also includes non-lethal issues that mess up your live or prevent you from living it normally) needs a treatment.
And this truth ends with a fullstop. There are no if's in it. To me there is no argument that could ever be made to counter this statement. And any health care system should fullfil this, even if that means that we need to pay 50% income tax, smoke Cuban cigars all day, and wear oversized sunglasses. Even if the system gets abused as shit. Even if the uncovered people are immigrants. Even if it would destroy the economy, crash the stock exchange and destroys millions of jobs. Just contrasting the previous two posts. There's a real value issue here. Saying it's "stealing" doesn't convince anyone, and neither does saying "any health care system should fulfill this." This is why I don't think serious reform is coming in this generation; half of the population couldn't give a shit about "fairness" or "justice" when it gets in the way of people's health, and the other half couldn't give a shit if their neighbor curls up and dies when it gets in the way of fairness. You can't really reconcile these two positions easily. Whats "fair" and "just" about forcefully confiscating ones property (money) and giving to to another which did not earn it? If I see someone hurting, or needing help, I will do what I can to help out another person. I am sure most people are the same. However, one should not use the heavy and omnipotent hand of the State to fix social "problems". They can and do for other social institutions. Schools, police, medicare/medicaid. How is this any different? Shouldn't we stop these existing institutions because they too force you to pay money for the benefit of others? Tell me, what exactly would you be giving up for this person to receive basic medical treatment? There's only really two things driving the people that seem to blame this women, greed and ignorance of reality. I know they do, and I disagree with all the programs you quoted. I do not want, or support, any government program that is funded by theft and coercion. Do you know what I would give up? For one, my property would be forcefully confiscated from me for the arcane "greater good". Secondly, with every government program comes a loss of liberty. Every mandate, program, regulation, etc that is put in place by the leviathan state chips away at my freedom. Then by all means find some open desert where you can live out your anarcho-libertarian fantasies. Want to actually try to refute what I said?
For the record you disagree with school. police, and medical services provided by the state? What would you like everyone going to christian or catholic schools? What is there to refute? All I see is your paranoia.
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EPT
