On August 24 2010 10:34 GiantEnemyCrab wrote: On topic: some1 alrdy mentions it above but ya muslims build mosque in the place of victory when they conquer a place, it has been shown through history. america may be tolerance on the religions but there is a limit.
Off topic: to most i will sound racist and all but muslim are suppost to be radical and too the dot with their intentions, if ur not a radical muslim ur not a muslim according to the koran just look at this video b4 replying to me:
Oh please, many Christians don't follow the Old Testament either, does that mean they're not Christian?
Religions change as society and technology advances, and the peaceful Muslims have recognized that fact. Even the Catholic Church, having denounced many theories in their history, realize they need to change their stance on things that have been scientifically proven.
Radical Islamists take the words of the Koran and twists them to suit their own agenda, a Jihad against all non-Muslims.
On August 24 2010 08:12 DannyJ wrote: Hooray for gigantic arguments over NY zoning laws!
The trippy part is it's not an argument over NY zoning laws. The zoning laws are clear. It's an argument over NY zoning morality.
Ahh yes, the timeless and controversial study of zoning morality. In Sim City 3000 i had an advisor for it. Then the volcano popped up downtown and he died.
am I the only one that hears them yelling, "ROBOT DICK!" ?
lol I hear it too
also I like the fat guy in the blue helmet coming up with the attitude and when they touch him to push him back their hands sink in like he's made of jello
On August 24 2010 10:34 GiantEnemyCrab wrote: On topic: some1 alrdy mentions it above but ya muslims build mosque in the place of victory when they conquer a place, it has been shown through history. america may be tolerance on the religions but there is a limit.
Off topic: to most i will sound racist and all but muslim are suppost to be radical and too the dot with their intentions, if ur not a radical muslim ur not a muslim according to the koran just look at this video b4 replying to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w
hah that was like that episode of south park with the mormans when the guy said. "if there are two passages that contradict eachother than simply take the newer passage and that is the correct one." lolz.
On August 24 2010 10:34 GiantEnemyCrab wrote: On topic: some1 alrdy mentions it above but ya muslims build mosque in the place of victory when they conquer a place, it has been shown through history. america may be tolerance on the religions but there is a limit.
Off topic: to most i will sound racist and all but muslim are suppost to be radical and too the dot with their intentions, if ur not a radical muslim ur not a muslim according to the koran just look at this video b4 replying to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w
everything about that video screams propaganda and lies wrapped in fancy nonsense typography
the qur'an isn't even organized chronologically so it would make no sense for 'the later' verse to take presidence over an 'earlier' verse; the qur'an is a recitation and the chronology has not been preserved so how do you tell which verse is 'later' <.<
On August 23 2010 23:23 catamorphist wrote: There are already a bunch of other churches of various faiths the same distance away, and another mosque one block further, so it seems like a 100% ginned-up non-controversy. Nobody cared about it until Pam Geller and Fox News told them to care. Besides, it's not like the fucking Taj Mahal in downtown New York, it's just some little community center thing.
If you want to complain about things desecrating Ground Zero, complain about the tourist traps, which are actually at the site, not two blocks away, and which are a fucking disgrace. I visited NYC in 2006 and I found it sort of absurdly hilarious seeing all these street vendors hawking maudlin crap.
I totally agree with you about the disgusting vendors trying to make a quick buck at Ground Zero. I got to visit Ground Zero when I was in the Marine Corps and was trying to pay my respects when some piece of shit vendor tries to sell me some 9/11 memorabilia. Normally, I am a very calm person but something made me snap and I freaked the fuck out on this guy. Needless to say I got into a bit of trouble for my little tirade (my CO happened to be there >< and had to spend the rest of my trip at the hotel. But it was worth it!
I now find that Jon Stewart has become one of my main supplements in terms of new sources.
All in all, I almost feel apathetic toward the whole situation. I think that whoever opposes the idea is being a little bit too Islamaphobic, and I think that the bickering is done for no really good reason.
At this point, the building of a Muslim community center at ground zero really doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.
On August 25 2010 09:16 biarecare wrote: Remove the mosque, and arrest all these racist pro-mosque protesters
Emotionally-charged protesters are certainly the best examples of any cause, right? If so, I point you to the anti-community center protesters who harassed a man of color who was wearing a hat that apparently looked Islamic (never mind that it had the UnderArmor logo on the front of it) who turned out to not even be Muslim-- he was a man working construction over at Ground Zero.
Opposing this because it's a mosque is... I wish there were an easy term for religious discrimination, like we have for race or sex. Oppose it because the Imam has shitty ideas, or because you don't think the architecture will fit in with Manhattan's rustic visage. Don't oppose it because you think there's some ridiculous subversive Islamic jihad going down on the West, or that these Muslims are connected to terrorists-- that is idiocy.
If anyone's offended by the construction of this community center because it's being constructed by Muslims and will have a/some Muslim prayer room/s in it, then I'd be willing to bet that you're either a) racist, b) unable to distinguish between extremists and average believers (all Christians bomb abortion clinics and all Buddhists light themselves on fire to make a point, after all), c) a Fox News drone (who apparently doesn't realize that a major stockholder in News Corp is a primary funder of this center... and yes, Arab; don't worry, they forgot, too), d) fcking retarded, or e) more than one choice is correct.
I find it funny when a non-Muslim says something about how Muslims have to be fanatical and fundamentalist and warlike, for two reasons. First, there are plenty of peaceful Muslims, and that should be proof enough. Secondly, this can be said about Judaism and Christianity, because similar language can be found in their holy texts, as well. Yet Christians and Jews often go against a literal or fundamentalist interpretation of their scriptures because it's contrary to peace or living in a mixed society.
Unless you're a Muslim, former Muslim, a religious scholar who's spent time studying Islam in particular, or a sociologist who's studied Muslim populations and their interpretations of Islam, making pronouncements about how Muslims must or actually do conduct themselves or think is far beyond your place.
You have 300 sq mi in NYC and you want to place a mosque exactly next to the place where one of the biggest tragedies in recent American history has happened. Really!? Religious freedom is well and good, but a mosque around ground zero is nothing but a slap in the face to many people. The sole connection of Islam with 9/11 is like pouring endless amounts of salt into an open wound.
On August 25 2010 09:16 biarecare wrote: Remove the mosque, and arrest all these racist pro-mosque protesters
Emotionally-charged protesters are certainly the best examples of any cause, right? If so, I point you to the anti-community center protesters who harassed a man of color who was wearing a hat that apparently looked Islamic (never mind that it had the UnderArmor logo on the front of it) who turned out to not even be Muslim-- he was a man working construction over at Ground Zero.
Opposing this because it's a mosque is... I wish there were an easy term for religious discrimination, like we have for race or sex. Oppose it because the Imam has shitty ideas, or because you don't think the architecture will fit in with Manhattan's rustic visage. Don't oppose it because you think there's some ridiculous subversive Islamic jihad going down on the West, or that these Muslims are connected to terrorists-- that is idiocy.
If anyone's offended by the construction of this community center because it's being constructed by Muslims and will have a/some Muslim prayer room/s in it, then I'd be willing to bet that you're either a) racist, b) unable to distinguish between extremists and average believers (all Christians bomb abortion clinics and all Buddhists light themselves on fire to make a point, after all), c) a Fox News drone (who apparently doesn't realize that a major stockholder in News Corp is a primary funder of this center... and yes, Arab; don't worry, they forgot, too), d) fcking retarded, or e) more than one choice is correct.
I find it funny when a non-Muslim says something about how Muslims have to be fanatical and fundamentalist and warlike, for two reasons. First, there are plenty of peaceful Muslims, and that should be proof enough. Secondly, this can be said about Judaism and Christianity, because similar language can be found in their holy texts, as well. Yet Christians and Jews often go against a literal or fundamentalist interpretation of their scriptures because it's contrary to peace or living in a mixed society.
Unless you're a Muslim, former Muslim, a religious scholar who's spent time studying Islam in particular, or a sociologist who's studied Muslim populations and their interpretations of Islam, making pronouncements about how Muslims must or actually do conduct themselves or think is far beyond your place.
Your post is emotionally charged and defensive. It's not going to convince anyone. According to numerous polls, most Americans oppose the mosque. I don't think most of these people fit one of your categorizations either.
On August 25 2010 10:23 ggrrg wrote: a mosque around ground zero is nothing but a slap in the face to many people who fail to distinguish between members of a religious group.
Fixed.
And it's not a mosque. It's a community center. Think YMCA, but instead of a Christian pastor it will have Muslim religious officials.
Your post is emotionally charged and defensive. It's not going to convince anyone. According to numerous polls, most Americans oppose the mosque. I don't think most of these people fit one of your categorizations either.
You're probably right about it being emotionally charged-- biarecare has a great way of embodying the very things I hate in his posts, and it sets me off.
I fail to see how it's defensive. Offensive, perhaps; I did insult a lot of people. That's probably because I'm sick and tired of people trying to justify arbitrary intolerance based on fear mongering.
Most Americans opposing the construction of a building in a city most Americans don't live in is irrelevant. This is not an issue up to popular vote; it is a building, which we have a system of bureaucracy in place to take care of. While popular opinion can direct building practices, it must be based on something relevant (economic impact, ethical prohibitions-- no building an adult bookstore next to the elementary school, etc).
About the popular opposition, I'd be willing to bet that the opposing responses are based on fear of the 'other' (Islam, common phenomenon in society), sensitivity to the families of the victims of 9/11 (understandable, but as I've said before, they fail to distinguish between extremist fundamentalist Muslims and average Ishmaels; there is no justification for restricting the actions of those not connected to a crime as if they were), basic religious intolerance (either anti-Islam or anti-religion altogether), or some other equally irrelevant perception.
If it can be proven that the Imam is a rabble-rouser, that the center will be used for nefarious purposes, that the presence of this large center will somehow destroy business revenue of competing businesses in its immediate area, or something else that is relevant and certainly more sinister than converting a small number of people to Islam, then opposition to this community center would have ground to stand on.
Right now, it's all emotions, and those are rarely the best guidance for policy.
EPT
and had to spend the rest of my trip at the hotel. But it was worth it!
