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On July 18 2010 08:03 Batch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 06:19 Skillet-Master wrote:On July 18 2010 05:45 Batch wrote:Wow, he describes stuff that I only thought existed in the movies. I felt sad when I read what he had endured. The prisons with the highest security in Sweden looks like hotels in comparison to what he described. ![[image loading]](http://www.kriminalvarden.se/upload/bilder/pressbilder/Bostadsrum_300b.jpg) Picture taken from a prison cell in the Swedish prison with the highest security rank. This is where we place our murderers. In Sweden each intern has their own room with nice furniture, a toilet, a TV and a radio as well as as a window to the outside. In many prisons the interns are free to bring their own gaming consoles or computer (without internet connection). The interns may choose to either work or study (free studies of course) during the days. When they are free in the afternoon or on the weekends then they can choose to enjoy any of the activities that the prison offers. Such activities includes: visiting the library, praying at the different religious rooms, training in the health centre and doing sports such as football, tennis and miniature golf. I have heard that the food is pretty good too. It's much less violence in our prisons aswell. I can't remember the last time I heard about someone getting killed in a Swedish prison. you almost describe that like it's a good thing Murderers shouldn't be pampered. Perhaps some sort of in between would be good. Problem in America (as I understand) is the prisons are filled with drug offenders which is dumb so it makes them overpopulated. Just legalize all drugs no problem! Or at least marijuana. Yeah, I think the best solution would be something in between. The prison time must feel like a punishment but also act to change the interns criminal behaviour to help them be good citizens when they have done their time. I I think penal labour should be used more. Instead of letting the criminals sit a set period of time, give them a sum on what they owe the society and let them be in prison untill they have earned that sum by working inside the prison. Good and hard working interns will be able to get out earlier this way and bad behaving interns might get their owing sum raised which makes their stay longer. This way the criminals will pay back what they have costed the society.
Wishful thinking.
People that go to jail have a pretty impossible task when it comes to landing a job that isn't completely dead end. Nothing turns off an employer more than a prison stay.
How exactly is someone supposed to reform when all their options are closed? Some people are straight sociopaths and those are the ones that end up in jail within a few months again anyway...but good luck finding another job of any worth after getting out of prison without basically fleeing the country and gaining a new identity.
Is this fair penance for killing someone? Sure.
Is it fair penance for having a syringe full of heroine? Absolutely not.
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If you're interested in prison life or prison drama, should watch the recent move called A Prophet. It's pretty good. Had good reviews, but I've seen much better movies (maybe I'm a bit picky).
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
Maybe just go to a third world country, get a new identity, then move to Europe or something. I'm sure you can continue living if you make the effort...
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Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
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Wow, an amazing story. Could be a good book imo.
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Wow this is an amazing my post. My dad says his job as a public defender depresses him and he feels like just a misery-broker. I didn't really understand why until this post, I really hope this guy isn't blowing smoke up everyones ass and I nothing he wrote sounds like bullshit to me.
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On July 18 2010 08:15 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 08:03 Batch wrote:On July 18 2010 06:19 Skillet-Master wrote:On July 18 2010 05:45 Batch wrote:Wow, he describes stuff that I only thought existed in the movies. I felt sad when I read what he had endured. The prisons with the highest security in Sweden looks like hotels in comparison to what he described. Picture taken from a prison cell in the Swedish prison with the highest security rank. This is where we place our murderers. In Sweden each intern has their own room with nice furniture, a toilet, a TV and a radio as well as as a window to the outside. In many prisons the interns are free to bring their own gaming consoles or computer (without internet connection). The interns may choose to either work or study (free studies of course) during the days. When they are free in the afternoon or on the weekends then they can choose to enjoy any of the activities that the prison offers. Such activities includes: visiting the library, praying at the different religious rooms, training in the health centre and doing sports such as football, tennis and miniature golf. I have heard that the food is pretty good too. It's much less violence in our prisons aswell. I can't remember the last time I heard about someone getting killed in a Swedish prison. you almost describe that like it's a good thing Murderers shouldn't be pampered. Perhaps some sort of in between would be good. Problem in America (as I understand) is the prisons are filled with drug offenders which is dumb so it makes them overpopulated. Just legalize all drugs no problem! Or at least marijuana. Yeah, I think the best solution would be something in between. The prison time must feel like a punishment but also act to change the interns criminal behaviour to help them be good citizens when they have done their time. I I think penal labour should be used more. Instead of letting the criminals sit a set period of time, give them a sum on what they owe the society and let them be in prison untill they have earned that sum by working inside the prison. Good and hard working interns will be able to get out earlier this way and bad behaving interns might get their owing sum raised which makes their stay longer. This way the criminals will pay back what they have costed the society. Wishful thinking. People that go to jail have a pretty impossible task when it comes to landing a job that isn't completely dead end. Nothing turns off an employer more than a prison stay. How exactly is someone supposed to reform when all their options are closed? Some people are straight sociopaths and those are the ones that end up in jail within a few months again anyway...but good luck finding another job of any worth after getting out of prison without basically fleeing the country and gaining a new identity. Is this fair penance for killing someone? Sure. Is it fair penance for having a syringe full of heroine? Absolutely not.
I don't know how it is in the US but in Sweden there isn't any way for the public to search if anyone has commited any crimes. Employers need special permissions to be able to get information if someone has been convicted for any crime and only companies dealing with a lot of money or security gets these permissions. So interns are able to start a new life after they have done their time which is very important to keep down the number of relapsed criminals.
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This was one of the most amazing things I've read in ever.
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On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote:
Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you:
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This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out.
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Yeah, he got off too lightly...
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On July 18 2010 08:48 Batch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote:
Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better. This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<| This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<| Yeah, he got off too lightly...
I happen to work on an open psychiatric ward and have actually met people for whom being robbed with a gun has happend. They have trouble leaving their homes, they can't keep up their job and they have to take medications just to get some sleep which is still a terrible sleep. And the worst part about it is that they couldn't in any way have avoided the situation. If you think he got off lightly you should visit a psychiatric hospital sometime...
He got off light...
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Read all of the OP, the links on the first page, and watched the first 50 minute prison video linked on Something Awful. Spent like 3 hours reading about this stuff. It is really mind blowing and has totally changed the way I see the prison system and even justice system in general.
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On July 18 2010 08:55 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 08:48 Batch wrote:On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote:
Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better. This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<| This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<| Yeah, he got off too lightly... I happen to work on an open psychiatric ward and have actually met people for whom being robbed with a gun has happend. They have trouble leaving their homes, they can't keep up their job and they have to take medications just to get some sleep which is still a terrible sleep. And the worst part about it is that they couldn't in any way have avoided the situation. If you think he got off lightly you should visit a psychiatric hospital sometime... He got off light...
It's this kind of reasoning that really gets me. This self perpetuating 'but they were worse..' kind of mentality.
+ Show Spoiler +If you subscribe to that kind of thought, then why not throw all human rights out the window? It's thinking like that which is responsible for all kinds of nasty shit: the patriot act and torture and humiliation in the prison system. Also responsible for 'democratic governments' slaughtering the villages of so called 'rebel tribes' in Africa.
Was it right that he pulled a gun on someone? No. Most definitely not.
Is it right to then put someone through something like that, with no intent on rehabilitation? No. Most definitely not.
To quote my mum: "Two wrongs don't make a right."
In any case, it was still an amazing story; and he should totally publish a book!
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WOW this is the most interresting shit i have ever seen.
Thanks a lot for that.
Hard to imagine the guy who wrote this commited an armed robbery.
Hope he is doing ok now.
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Just read through(almost) the whole post.
This is by far the most interesting and well-written blog i've seen on TL.
You should seriously write a book or something
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Great read. Quite grateful for all I have right now.
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wall of text inc
this thread, which was eye-opening enough to interest me in reading about prisons in general in the form of personal accounts, has led me to believe that modern prisons, even the one this guy was in, are among the sickest inventions i've ever been made aware of. the most terrible thing is that there are prisons so much worse it is like comparing an innocent child to a serial rapist and murderer. i don't think i've ever been so embarassed and disgusted by humanity and i have read some highly disturbing shit over the years, between 4chan and all the other stuff you can find on the internet.
it is disturbing on a level of nazi germany concentration camps, i can only call the concentration camps worse because of the sheer quantity of people who went through them and because of the creativity of torture, if you could even call it that, in the camps. in nearly all other things i could consider, they are equal. i will NOT budge or claim exaggeration on this, it is completely comparable. if anything it is worse because almost everyone goes on living their life while these things happen with no action to stop it! at least with nazi germany, people actively recognized the cruelty and the insanity of those in charge of it, and banded together to eventually bring it to an end. all these prison stories are treated just as that, stories. nobody sees it as people in need of help, and it's most likely just because it happens in prison, where all the bad people are supposed to be in the first place.
prisons are meant to rehabilitate criminals, but they've become an industry and now do the complete opposite. they do all they can to get people into prisons and keep them there with no concern for law and often times in complete violation of it, on top of all the people who deserve to be there, so you get these cold-hearted people mixing with these people who are absolutely nothing like them but are molded over time to be. to say that prisons nowadays rehabilitate anyone is to confuse giving someone a positive outlook on their future and proper punishment for their actions with mentally scarring them so greatly that they refuse to return to the source of their pain. and those are just the people who get out and don't want to go back. even before i read all that i did, i was aware that a portion of those who stay too long in prisons cannot function in society properly
after reading all of the shit i did at http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3233450 and clicking only a handful of the many links that are there, and then thinking back on this story, i'm not confident that anyone short of violent crimes (including the person the OP is about) or otherwise crimes that directly endanger the lives of those around the person should be put in prison because anything good that could come out of it comes at a very high price that is not likely going to pay off unless you're literally saving lives by putting that person in prison. prisons seem to be nothing short of a breeding ground for every kind of inhumane act you can imagine.
if you have any sort of moral awareness, you have to admit that these people are treated like they are barely living creatures, much less animals or sub-human, and that nobody deserves to live through the punishment that so many of these people go through purely for the amusement of those who can order them around, regardless of their crime. the people that allow and encourage these things deserve to be executed. they are all poor excuses for intelligent life and to allow them to live longer is more dangerous than capturing any criminal because they perpetuate this system and fight for it to continue, and it effects our society greatly.
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Great read. Eye opening indeed.
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On July 18 2010 09:09 Tyraz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 08:55 Ghostcom wrote:On July 18 2010 08:48 Batch wrote:On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote:
Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better. This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<| This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<| Yeah, he got off too lightly... I happen to work on an open psychiatric ward and have actually met people for whom being robbed with a gun has happend. They have trouble leaving their homes, they can't keep up their job and they have to take medications just to get some sleep which is still a terrible sleep. And the worst part about it is that they couldn't in any way have avoided the situation. If you think he got off lightly you should visit a psychiatric hospital sometime... He got off light... It's this kind of reasoning that really gets me. This self perpetuating 'but they were worse..' kind of mentality. + Show Spoiler +If you subscribe to that kind of thought, then why not throw all human rights out the window? It's thinking like that which responsible for all kinds of nasty shit: the patriot act and torture and humiliation in the prison system. Also responsible for 'democratic governments' slaughtering the villages of so called 'rebel tribes' in Africa. Was it right that he pulled a gun on someone? No. Most definitely not. Is it right to then put someone through something like that, with no intent on rehabilitation? No. Most definitely not. To quote my mum: "Two wrongs don't make a right." In any case, it was still an amazing story; and he should totally publish a book!
I think a big part of why we disagree (because, come on - I never said anything about throwing away all human rights) is that I believe if a punishment is hard enough, the crime won't be done whilst you (apperantly) believe in rehabilitating people, trying to prevent the crime from happening AGAIN. Whilst rehabilitation is on paper a good thing, it has a couple of downside, one being it's low succesrate (wheter it be the system as it seems you believe or due to the nature of people turning criminals in the first place is another discussion) another being that it doesn't stop the first crime.
That was my reason for saying he got off too lightly.
Wheter or not the US prison system is fine is somewhat out of my league to comment on - though one has to remember that most of what he described was done by OTHER inmates which can be pretty hard for the prisonguards to stop.
And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves. If he got rich off writing such a book, he basicly got rewarded for his crime...
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I think the problem with prison right now and its system is how inmates are treated. It's nice they're allowed to interact and have conveniences but I think cells should only house one inmate instead of two because that just ends up in rape and stabbings. These guys are forced to commit crimes inside of prison if they don't want to be targeted themselves, and it makes it worst including their sentences being lengthened considerably. Nothing is done to protect them while they're serving time.
I think prisoners should have the option to be locked in a one prisoner per cell basis and have necessities delivered to them. So those that are weak don't have to worry about becoming a target.
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EPT
