On October 19 2010 07:02 SeriousPaul wrote: Why? If it's just for your convenience then go fuck yourself.
How about if it's for everyone's convenience? Keep your aggressive comments like this to yourself, noone wants a flame war. Regardless of whether or not you think it's real, it's an interesting read, leave it at that.
It's bullshit, whether it's interesting or not. I could care less what the moderation does. I have nothing invested in this board, as such don't care whether they ban me. Dude is a liar, regardless of what douche bags think of me. None of you are trying to kill me, or set me on fire as such I could fucking care less. Come walk a mile in my shoes, and see how you hold up.
I'm going to assume that you actually value your time. I'm also going to assume that you created an account, and posted your thought in an effort to give others here another perspective.
However, since you seem to lack common sense, you have successfully wasted your time and failed to convince anyone because now you just sound like a rambling maniac more concerned with forum moderation than the topic at hand.
On October 19 2010 07:37 Hakker wrote: It's a shame because no matter how insightful you might be into the matter your posts might just be deleted at this point.
^Agreed.
Any netizen sleuths out there willing to track this down further?
A few of my family members have been to California state prison. They say it's not as bad as in the movies. They likened it to being in a little city. If you look at most cities, they are already semi-divided by race. California system is ganged out, as in everyone is in a gang so people rarely cross the 'color line' .They told me that the notion that everyone rapes everyone is ridiculous and that most victims are teenagers and most perpetrators are in their early 20's who have been in prison since they were juveniles and haven't had much contact with women. They also said victims of rape often become rapists themselves oddly enough. Someone also told me you're more likely to be sexually assaulted in Juvie than in the pen in most cases.
On October 19 2010 08:59 Warrior Madness wrote: It's a shame that this is probably fake. Still a great cautionary tale that I'd save for my kids.
Personally I believe the man's story. There is too much detail for it to be a complete fabrication. He said himself that he may have been exaggerating in some places.
Btw, can anyone provide a link to the source thread?
It's a great read which enjoyed but it isn't a true story. It's clearly a work of fiction in the same way Shawshank Redemption was a work of fiction written by Stephen King. Stephen King was never incarcerated but he still wrote an accurate tale depicting life in prison. How did he do it you cry? He researched it like any writer researchers his subject matter. The internet is full of information about prison, libraries (what them?) are full of books on the subject and the cinemas and DVD stores are full of movies about them also. Two years is not considered a long stretch. Certainly not long enough for him to have experienced even half of the things he has said he has done. The character he has created just doesn't make any sense, as a human being he is just too unbelievable and is absolutely riddled with contradiction. He writes off these contradictions by always blaming it on the drugs. Handy that. The biggest give away for me and this is a massive gaping hole in the story and he brushes it over very quickly because he doesn't know how to broach it is the section when he recalls his homosexual encounters. I strong heterosexual man, like this writer claims to be, would not be fucking and blowing off other men after just a year in prison. Just a year!!!! That is absolutely ridiculous and completely refutable. This heterosexual prisoner was so horny on MDMA he sucked off his cell mate! That is utter nonsense and it made me laugh out loud. That is pure comedy. When he wrote that the credibility of this story went right out the window. Come on people, wake up will you. Don't be so gullible. This is the sort of shit Irvine Welsh writes for breakfast. If you want a decent account of prison read 'Pimp' by Iceberg Slim.
this was quite a interesting read. definitely something that most people would stop and reflect on their lives and what they are doing with it when their done reading the incredibly long post.
On October 19 2010 05:14 AoN.DimSum wrote: aw I thought this was real too btw how do you know this stuff seriouspaul?
I have worked inside a prison as a Corrections Officer for more than a decade. I have experience in several security level settings, and am active in making my work place a better environment.
aw too bad u didnt list your "corrections officer ID number" guess that means ur lying =]
Point is - It's easy to talk shit when the author is no where to refute you
Wow, what an amazing(and quite sad) story, mad props to the original OP for sharing and telling it like it is, and big hi-5 to this threads OP, thanks for sharing. i believe it.
Very good read. It caught my eye because I spent two years in Minnesota prison about 15 years ago. I won’t go into the details of the crime I committed but it wasn’t a crime of violence.
All I can say is that the author had a very different prison experience than I. I only heard of one rape while I was in and only witnessed two fights, both of which ended very quickly with no real injuries to the parties involved.
I spent my first year and a half at Stillwater state prison, a prison built in 1902 and very similar to the prison depicted in the movie Shawshank Redemption. It is what is called a closed custody facility, second in security classification only to the super max prison at Oak Park Heights.
The other closed custody prison in Minnesota is in St. Cloud. Generally, inmates under 25 years of age are sent to St. Cloud. It has the nickname of gladiator school.
Stillwater prison had adopted a “controlled movement” environment a few years before I arrived. Prior to that, inmates were allowed free movement throughout the prison between counts.
Controlled movement greatly reduced the potential for violence and the amount of contraband in the prison. Basically, it separates the hardcore convicts from the rest of the population.
Before controlled movement, inmate hierarchy ruled the prison. The prison was divided into groups along racial lines and it was the worse of the worst convicts who essentially ran the prison. Chow time, yard time, the area of the yard, and what job an inmate could have were all based on what group he belonged to and his standing in that particular group.
Protective custody or PC was for inmates, mostly sex offenders, who were unable to assimilate into a group. These inmates would be preyed upon if kept in general population.
Contraband was rampant and the source of much of the violence. It was much more common for violence to occur within a particular group rather than between members of separate groups.
Controlled movement was implemented as a way for administration to take back the prison. The concept is to separate the relatively small core of troublesome inmates from the vast majority of inmates who just want to do their time in peace.
Here’s how controlled movement worked at Stillwater:
There are five cell blocks at Stillwater. “A West” and “B East” are for good behavior inmates that work or are enrolled in educational programs. “A East” is a transitional block that houses inmates short term who are entering or leaving the facility or are transferring between blocks.
“B West” was nicknamed the “wild, wild west”. That conditions in that block were likely the most similar to those described by the author. This is where the hardcore convicts were housed, I never had contact with any B West inmate during my time at Stillwater. B West was essentially a prison within a prison.
Then there was D Block which was also called the Honor block. That block housed inmates with long sentences who had exhibited good behavior over a long period of time. They enjoy many special privileges such as personal coffee makers and refrigerators.
“SEC” was a separate housing unit for sex offenders completely segregated from the rest of the prison. It was a voluntary treatment unit and not all sex offenders were housed there. But most sex offenders tried to get into SEC as soon as possible.
After a month in A West, I was housed in the “dorm”, an overflow facility in an old building outside the main prison but on the prison grounds. Only the lowest risk inmates were housed there. It was as the name implies, a large open dormitory filled with bunk beds that housed about 60-80 inmates.
Nobody wanted to go to the dorm because the living conditions were truly awful. Freezing cold in the winter and unbearably hot in the summer. The building leaked like crazy when it rained, the plumbing was bad and the building had a damp musky smell.
Absolutely no privacy whatsoever. No stalls around the toilets. One TV for everyone and no personal radios. I would have much rather been housed in A West or B East block where I could have my own cell with a TV and a toilet.
It’s ironic that the SEC unit for sex offenders was arguably the best housing unit as it was brand new building with air conditioning. SEC inmates were not required to work and were actually paid to participate in sex offender treatment.
They were served meals inside the unit. I could see the yard from the dorm and when each of the other blocks were let out into the yard, it was packed full. Then SEC would go the yard and with about a third as many inmates have the whole place to themselves.
I was considered one of the lowest risk, non-violent inmates yet I was housed in worst conditions. And we had to share our yard time with A East. The only benefit to the dorm was that we went to chow hall alone and didn’t have to wait in line and had more time to eat.
I worked 30 hours a week making bird feeders at 75 cents an hour. Along with the yard that is the only time I was with other inmates other than my fellow inmates housed in the dorm. Believe it or not, in the shop we had access to all sorts of tools and even panes of glass used for the bird feeders.
Working in “industry” was a privilege and some inmates with years and years of seniority made as much as $3 a hour. The foreman in my shop was a an arsonist who started a fire that killed five people.
Rumor was that he had accumulated over $30,000 in savings. While $3 a hour might not seem like much, I guess it adds up after a few decades.
I was transferred to a CD treatment program at a medium security prison in Lino Lakes for the final six months of my sentence.
That was like summer camp. Great recreational facilities. The housing units were called cottages and we could BBQ and grow vegetable gardens. We were allowed to go the huge yard (with several big old oak trees) or library anytime we weren’t in treatment classes or meetings. We played softball and had pool tables, ping pong tables, and Nintendo.
I was paid $1.25 an hour, 30 hours a week to participate in treatment so I had plenty of money for anything I needed from the commissary. I had my own cell with my own TV, a personal CD player and basic cable.
We were even allowed to have money from our account, $10 a week which we could use in the soda and candy machines in each cottage. Each cottage had a complete kitchen and we could buy food from the commissary and cook it in the kitchen if we wished. But I always went to the chow hall because the food was pretty good.
Each cottage also had a pizza night once a month where we could order in pizza from Dominoes or Pizza Hut. Of course, we had to pay for it from our account.
This might sound strange but it was one of the best times of my life. I can remember going for a early morning run in the yard and thinking, “I’ve only got four months left” and feeling euphoric.
As the warden said once, “Inmates come to prison as punishment, not for punishment”. That was certainly the philosophy at Lino. Sorry if my tale isn’t quite as gripping but that’s how it was for me. By the way, I haven’t been back.
I believe most of what the author wrote. In CD treatment, everyone has to tell their life story and I heard many similar accounts of prison life from other inmates. But usually they were talking about prison conditions years ago and this was in 1995.
However, one guy talked about his time in a Illinois prison that sounded very much like what the author wrote and that was in the late eighties, early nineties.
The way the author described the psychological effects and the mentality of everyday prison life sent shivers down my spine. The guy had to have done time to talk about it like that. I couldn’t put into words like he did but he described it almost perfectly.
When he spoke about lockdown being like a camp out and stocking up, I knew he had done time because that’s exactly what’s it’s like. Only someone who had done time would know that.
What I don’t believe is that COs were able to beat to death inmates and get away with it. I just can’t see how that could happen in any way in today’s prison system. Everything is on camera, corner’s reports, non lethal methods of restraint. Just couldn’t happen without everyone from the state commissioner of corrections on down covering it up.
Hey, Marginal Revolution picked up on this one. Never thought I'd see TL cited in an econblog, and certainly not for something like this.
I wish SeriousPaul hadn't got himself banned so fast since it seems like he had a legitimate point about this all being fake. The smoking gun seems to be that Michigan correctional facilities don't allow for tasers, if you'll pardon the tasteless pun. Of course, it's entirely possible that he fabricated his location for the sake of anonymity, but a few other things struck me as false as well, most notably his heroin addiction 'not being a problem' which is almost certainly horseshit.
It's a massive shame if it is fake, since it's a damn well-written story.
On October 22 2010 01:19 BillyJack wrote: Very good read. It caught my eye because I spent two years in Minnesota prison about 15 years ago. I won’t go into the details of the crime I committed but it wasn’t a crime of violence.
All I can say is that the author had a very different prison experience than I. I only heard of one rape while I was in and only witnessed two fights, both of which ended very quickly with no real injuries to the parties involved.
I spent my first year and a half at Stillwater state prison, a prison built in 1902 and very similar to the prison depicted in the movie Shawshank Redemption. It is what is called a closed custody facility, second in security classification only to the super max prison at Oak Park Heights.
The other closed custody prison in Minnesota is in St. Cloud. Generally, inmates under 25 years of age are sent to St. Cloud. It has the nickname of gladiator school.
Stillwater prison had adopted a “controlled movement” environment a few years before I arrived. Prior to that, inmates were allowed free movement throughout the prison between counts.
Controlled movement greatly reduced the potential for violence and the amount of contraband in the prison. Basically, it separates the hardcore convicts from the rest of the population.
Before controlled movement, inmate hierarchy ruled the prison. The prison was divided into groups along racial lines and it was the worse of the worst convicts who essentially ran the prison. Chow time, yard time, the area of the yard, and what job an inmate could have were all based on what group he belonged to and his standing in that particular group.
Protective custody or PC was for inmates, mostly sex offenders, who were unable to assimilate into a group. These inmates would be preyed upon if kept in general population.
Contraband was rampant and the source of much of the violence. It was much more common for violence to occur within a particular group rather than between members of separate groups.
Controlled movement was implemented as a way for administration to take back the prison. The concept is to separate the relatively small core of troublesome inmates from the vast majority of inmates who just want to do their time in peace.
Here’s how controlled movement worked at Stillwater:
There are five cell blocks at Stillwater. “A West” and “B East” are for good behavior inmates that work or are enrolled in educational programs. “A East” is a transitional block that houses inmates short term who are entering or leaving the facility or are transferring between blocks.
“B West” was nicknamed the “wild, wild west”. That conditions in that block were likely the most similar to those described by the author. This is where the hardcore convicts were housed, I never had contact with any B West inmate during my time at Stillwater. B West was essentially a prison within a prison.
Then there was D Block which was also called the Honor block. That block housed inmates with long sentences who had exhibited good behavior over a long period of time. They enjoy many special privileges such as personal coffee makers and refrigerators.
“SEC” was a separate housing unit for sex offenders completely segregated from the rest of the prison. It was a voluntary treatment unit and not all sex offenders were housed there. But most sex offenders tried to get into SEC as soon as possible.
After a month in A West, I was housed in the “dorm”, an overflow facility in an old building outside the main prison but on the prison grounds. Only the lowest risk inmates were housed there. It was as the name implies, a large open dormitory filled with bunk beds that housed about 60-80 inmates.
Nobody wanted to go to the dorm because the living conditions were truly awful. Freezing cold in the winter and unbearably hot in the summer. The building leaked like crazy when it rained, the plumbing was bad and the building had a damp musky smell.
Absolutely no privacy whatsoever. No stalls around the toilets. One TV for everyone and no personal radios. I would have much rather been housed in A West or B East block where I could have my own cell with a TV and a toilet.
It’s ironic that the SEC unit for sex offenders was arguably the best housing unit as it was brand new building with air conditioning. SEC inmates were not required to work and were actually paid to participate in sex offender treatment.
They were served meals inside the unit. I could see the yard from the dorm and when each of the other blocks were let out into the yard, it was packed full. Then SEC would go the yard and with about a third as many inmates have the whole place to themselves.
I was considered one of the lowest risk, non-violent inmates yet I was housed in worst conditions. And we had to share our yard time with A East. The only benefit to the dorm was that we went to chow hall alone and didn’t have to wait in line and had more time to eat.
I worked 30 hours a week making bird feeders at 75 cents an hour. Along with the yard that is the only time I was with other inmates other than my fellow inmates housed in the dorm. Believe it or not, in the shop we had access to all sorts of tools and even panes of glass used for the bird feeders.
Working in “industry” was a privilege and some inmates with years and years of seniority made as much as $3 a hour. The foreman in my shop was a an arsonist who started a fire that killed five people.
Rumor was that he had accumulated over $30,000 in savings. While $3 a hour might not seem like much, I guess it adds up after a few decades.
I was transferred to a CD treatment program at a medium security prison in Lino Lakes for the final six months of my sentence.
That was like summer camp. Great recreational facilities. The housing units were called cottages and we could BBQ and grow vegetable gardens. We were allowed to go the huge yard (with several big old oak trees) or library anytime we weren’t in treatment classes or meetings. We played softball and had pool tables, ping pong tables, and Nintendo.
I was paid $1.25 an hour, 30 hours a week to participate in treatment so I had plenty of money for anything I needed from the commissary. I had my own cell with my own TV, a personal CD player and basic cable.
We were even allowed to have money from our account, $10 a week which we could use in the soda and candy machines in each cottage. Each cottage had a complete kitchen and we could buy food from the commissary and cook it in the kitchen if we wished. But I always went to the chow hall because the food was pretty good.
Each cottage also had a pizza night once a month where we could order in pizza from Dominoes or Pizza Hut. Of course, we had to pay for it from our account.
This might sound strange but it was one of the best times of my life. I can remember going for a early morning run in the yard and thinking, “I’ve only got four months left” and feeling euphoric.
As the warden said once, “Inmates come to prison as punishment, not for punishment”. That was certainly the philosophy at Lino. Sorry if my tale isn’t quite as gripping but that’s how it was for me. By the way, I haven’t been back.
I believe most of what the author wrote. In CD treatment, everyone has to tell their life story and I heard many similar accounts of prison life from other inmates. But usually they were talking about prison conditions years ago and this was in 1995.
However, one guy talked about his time in a Illinois prison that sounded very much like what the author wrote and that was in the late eighties, early nineties.
The way the author described the psychological effects and the mentality of everyday prison life sent shivers down my spine. The guy had to have done time to talk about it like that. I couldn’t put into words like he did but he described it almost perfectly.
When he spoke about lockdown being like a camp out and stocking up, I knew he had done time because that’s exactly what’s it’s like. Only someone who had done time would know that.
What I don’t believe is that COs were able to beat to death inmates and get away with it. I just can’t see how that could happen in any way in today’s prison system. Everything is on camera, corner’s reports, non lethal methods of restraint. Just couldn’t happen without everyone from the state commissioner of corrections on down covering it up.
Interesting read... Having spent a few months in a low security facility myself when I was (much) younger I could relate to a few bits, but I am not convinced about all the deaths and beat downs... Unless prisons in the USA are 20x worse than they are here it seems a little over the top...
EPT
btw how do you know this stuff seriouspaul?
