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The Big Programming Thread - Page 968

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Thread Rules
1. This is not a "do my homework for me" thread. If you have specific questions, ask, but don't post an assignment or homework problem and expect an exact solution.
2. No recruiting for your cockamamie projects (you won't replace facebook with 3 dudes you found on the internet and $20)
3. If you can't articulate why a language is bad, don't start slinging shit about it. Just remember that nothing is worse than making CSS IE6 compatible.
4. Use [code] tags to format code blocks.
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19159 Posts
July 03 2018 21:01 GMT
#19341
credit card storage isn't done

User puts in their card number, which is then passed to a payment processor. The processor sends back a response of invalid card, or a token unique to that card for the specific vendor. The vendor then stores the token and last 4 digits, and sometimes the card type. Another layer of security can be added by requiring the CCV at every checkout as well. After the first transaction, the vendor sends their ID token, the card token, and optionally the CCV and the processor checks everything again and sends back pass/fail.
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18132 Posts
July 03 2018 21:05 GMT
#19342
On July 04 2018 04:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2018 04:19 Excludos wrote:
On July 04 2018 03:35 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 04 2018 02:33 Excludos wrote:
Hmm, I've been thinking about this for a while: What's the best way to store someone's credit card information on your servers? Obviously it would need to be encrypted, but it can't just be hashed as you'll need to somehow decrypt it when it's time to automatically renew the subscription or let the user pay more easily on his next online shopping transaction. So you'll need a good encryption and a key to decrypt it, but then you're left with the problem of how and where to store the key instead...

I'm not looking for a tool or library, but more an idea on how you'd go about solving this if you had to do it all from scratch, on a surface level.

Look up industry standards is the best advice I can give you. Financial payment information is one of those things you don't want to be approaching from scratch, because it could potentially get you in a lot of trouble. Here in North America we have the PCI DSS, which is the payment card compliance standard. I don't know what the equivalent would be in Norway.

Most secure solutions I've seen involve not hosting the credit card data at all. It generally involves a 3rd party host (provided by your payment processor) who would take the initial credit card info and give you back a unique identifier that's specific to your business. Within your business, you can keep using that ID as a credit card for processing and future payments, but if anyone hacks in to your system and gets the data it's useless to them.


Edit: Apparently PCI standards are fairly global and also apply to Norway. So there you are.


Again I should stress I'm not looking to implement this myself, only a surface level of understanding about how you'd do it (or rather, how others have done it). I'm not crazy enough to put myself in a situation where I could get sued for millions because I lost a bunch of credit cards.

It seems to me like it's a catch 22. No matter what you do, you have to store something which lets you unencrypt the credit cards, which in turn can get stolen and used by hackers to do the exact same thing.

I'd still recommend PCI standards for theoretical information. Encryption key storage is included in the requirements, but yes, ultimately no system is every going to be completely secure. Security is always risk minimization, not risk prevention.

That's why a 3rd party credit card vault (which I think is the industry term) is a lot more secure than storing the data yourself.


That doesn't really help Excludos understand how you'd go about implementing that credit card vault, tho. My bet is that you'd do it very similarly to a shadow file for passwords.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8195 Posts
July 03 2018 21:16 GMT
#19343
On July 04 2018 06:01 tofucake wrote:
credit card storage isn't done

User puts in their card number, which is then passed to a payment processor. The processor sends back a response of invalid card, or a token unique to that card for the specific vendor. The vendor then stores the token and last 4 digits, and sometimes the card type. Another layer of security can be added by requiring the CCV at every checkout as well. After the first transaction, the vendor sends their ID token, the card token, and optionally the CCV and the processor checks everything again and sends back pass/fail.


Interesting. That helps a bit. However does it really change that much seeing as both the id token and card token could still be stolen and used? Or is there something which restricts where the id token and card token is used from perhaps?

CCV is an obvious and good security layer, however I've seen many sites forego it completely (Which, when you're running an automatic renewable subscription service you'd have to do anyways).
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8195 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-03 21:22:54
July 03 2018 21:20 GMT
#19344
On July 04 2018 06:05 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2018 04:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 04 2018 04:19 Excludos wrote:
On July 04 2018 03:35 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 04 2018 02:33 Excludos wrote:
Hmm, I've been thinking about this for a while: What's the best way to store someone's credit card information on your servers? Obviously it would need to be encrypted, but it can't just be hashed as you'll need to somehow decrypt it when it's time to automatically renew the subscription or let the user pay more easily on his next online shopping transaction. So you'll need a good encryption and a key to decrypt it, but then you're left with the problem of how and where to store the key instead...

I'm not looking for a tool or library, but more an idea on how you'd go about solving this if you had to do it all from scratch, on a surface level.

Look up industry standards is the best advice I can give you. Financial payment information is one of those things you don't want to be approaching from scratch, because it could potentially get you in a lot of trouble. Here in North America we have the PCI DSS, which is the payment card compliance standard. I don't know what the equivalent would be in Norway.

Most secure solutions I've seen involve not hosting the credit card data at all. It generally involves a 3rd party host (provided by your payment processor) who would take the initial credit card info and give you back a unique identifier that's specific to your business. Within your business, you can keep using that ID as a credit card for processing and future payments, but if anyone hacks in to your system and gets the data it's useless to them.


Edit: Apparently PCI standards are fairly global and also apply to Norway. So there you are.


Again I should stress I'm not looking to implement this myself, only a surface level of understanding about how you'd do it (or rather, how others have done it). I'm not crazy enough to put myself in a situation where I could get sued for millions because I lost a bunch of credit cards.

It seems to me like it's a catch 22. No matter what you do, you have to store something which lets you unencrypt the credit cards, which in turn can get stolen and used by hackers to do the exact same thing.

I'd still recommend PCI standards for theoretical information. Encryption key storage is included in the requirements, but yes, ultimately no system is every going to be completely secure. Security is always risk minimization, not risk prevention.

That's why a 3rd party credit card vault (which I think is the industry term) is a lot more secure than storing the data yourself.


That doesn't really help Excludos understand how you'd go about implementing that credit card vault, tho. My bet is that you'd do it very similarly to a shadow file for passwords.


A shadow file isn't really secure, even if encrypted, as anyone with admin access can read it. Something as critical as this is only really ever secure if even admins doesn't have access or the ability to get their hands on the the stored information except for encrypted mumbo jumbo. Hacks happens regularly, and even worse insiders happen regularly. If you're thinking about information + salt = hash, that only works if you never intend to decrypt it, as you can then just check hashes against other hashes, and never against the original information itself.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18132 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-03 21:24:58
July 03 2018 21:24 GMT
#19345
On July 04 2018 06:20 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2018 06:05 Acrofales wrote:
On July 04 2018 04:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 04 2018 04:19 Excludos wrote:
On July 04 2018 03:35 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 04 2018 02:33 Excludos wrote:
Hmm, I've been thinking about this for a while: What's the best way to store someone's credit card information on your servers? Obviously it would need to be encrypted, but it can't just be hashed as you'll need to somehow decrypt it when it's time to automatically renew the subscription or let the user pay more easily on his next online shopping transaction. So you'll need a good encryption and a key to decrypt it, but then you're left with the problem of how and where to store the key instead...

I'm not looking for a tool or library, but more an idea on how you'd go about solving this if you had to do it all from scratch, on a surface level.

Look up industry standards is the best advice I can give you. Financial payment information is one of those things you don't want to be approaching from scratch, because it could potentially get you in a lot of trouble. Here in North America we have the PCI DSS, which is the payment card compliance standard. I don't know what the equivalent would be in Norway.

Most secure solutions I've seen involve not hosting the credit card data at all. It generally involves a 3rd party host (provided by your payment processor) who would take the initial credit card info and give you back a unique identifier that's specific to your business. Within your business, you can keep using that ID as a credit card for processing and future payments, but if anyone hacks in to your system and gets the data it's useless to them.


Edit: Apparently PCI standards are fairly global and also apply to Norway. So there you are.


Again I should stress I'm not looking to implement this myself, only a surface level of understanding about how you'd do it (or rather, how others have done it). I'm not crazy enough to put myself in a situation where I could get sued for millions because I lost a bunch of credit cards.

It seems to me like it's a catch 22. No matter what you do, you have to store something which lets you unencrypt the credit cards, which in turn can get stolen and used by hackers to do the exact same thing.

I'd still recommend PCI standards for theoretical information. Encryption key storage is included in the requirements, but yes, ultimately no system is every going to be completely secure. Security is always risk minimization, not risk prevention.

That's why a 3rd party credit card vault (which I think is the industry term) is a lot more secure than storing the data yourself.


That doesn't really help Excludos understand how you'd go about implementing that credit card vault, tho. My bet is that you'd do it very similarly to a shadow file for passwords.


A shadow file isn't really secure, even if encrypted, as anyone with admin access can read it. Something as critical as this is only really ever secure if even admins doesn't have access or the ability to get their hands on the the stored information except for encrypted mumbo jumbo. Hacks happens regularly, and even worse insiders happen regularly.

Well, no. The whole point is that you don't store the password. Just a hash of it. So yeah, you only check the encrypted mumbo jumbo matches.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 03 2018 22:15 GMT
#19346
On July 04 2018 06:01 tofucake wrote:
credit card storage isn't done

User puts in their card number, which is then passed to a payment processor. The processor sends back a response of invalid card, or a token unique to that card for the specific vendor. The vendor then stores the token and last 4 digits, and sometimes the card type. Another layer of security can be added by requiring the CCV at every checkout as well. After the first transaction, the vendor sends their ID token, the card token, and optionally the CCV and the processor checks everything again and sends back pass/fail.

The "ID token" and "card token" you're referring to is the 3rd party vault I mentioned, and it's not a fully adopted model. Local Credit Card Storage is definitely done, especially since companies are not constantly updating with standards...and the credit card vault isn't even a required standard.

On July 04 2018 06:16 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2018 06:01 tofucake wrote:
credit card storage isn't done

User puts in their card number, which is then passed to a payment processor. The processor sends back a response of invalid card, or a token unique to that card for the specific vendor. The vendor then stores the token and last 4 digits, and sometimes the card type. Another layer of security can be added by requiring the CCV at every checkout as well. After the first transaction, the vendor sends their ID token, the card token, and optionally the CCV and the processor checks everything again and sends back pass/fail.


Interesting. That helps a bit. However does it really change that much seeing as both the id token and card token could still be stolen and used? Or is there something which restricts where the id token and card token is used from perhaps?

CCV is an obvious and good security layer, however I've seen many sites forego it completely (Which, when you're running an automatic renewable subscription service you'd have to do anyways).

The ID token and Card token should be tied to your personal business/merchant ID as well. In that regard, it's essentially a public/private key. In theory, hacking your local storage would only given card tokens that can't be used anywhere else, and the same goes for hacking the centralized card vault.


CVV, in my experience, tends to be used a lot more during credit disputes than initial transactions. Which is why, as you say, it's ignored quite often.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17450 Posts
July 04 2018 08:49 GMT
#19347
https://codete.com/blog/java-8-java-11-quick-guide/
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
phar
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1080 Posts
July 04 2018 22:24 GMT
#19348
Oh joy, with luck I'll be able to use Java 9 features in 2025 at my company lol
Who after all is today speaking about the destruction of the Armenians?
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8195 Posts
July 05 2018 17:17 GMT
#19349
On July 05 2018 07:24 phar wrote:
Oh joy, with luck I'll be able to use Java 9 features in 2025 at my company lol


At least you're not using Unity which is consistently 2 years behind the latest C# version, which takes my company another 1-2 years to switch over to.
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4733 Posts
July 06 2018 09:15 GMT
#19350
Well i dont know much about java but i saw that our company is just starting new project using JAVA 8. Is it significantly behind ?
Pathetic Greta hater.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18132 Posts
July 06 2018 09:20 GMT
#19351
On July 06 2018 18:15 Silvanel wrote:
Well i dont know much about java but i saw that our company is just starting new project using JAVA 8. Is it significantly behind ?

It's the current LTS version, so in that sense no. However, we're up to Java 10, and as that article above states, Java 11 will be the next LTS and is about to be released.

That said, the only really big change between 8 and 11 is the different GC. The Optional statements, and "soft" typing (it's still hard types, just giving the compiler some work) aren't that big a deal, imho.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17450 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-06 11:04:23
July 06 2018 11:00 GMT
#19352
Java 8 is going down next year. And the biggest difference between 8 and 11 came in 9 (modularity) so it might be a good idea to switch to it (might as well go directly for 11).

Here's a nice explanation of new Java release cycle:
https://jaxenter.com/end-life-comes-early-jdk-8-140824.html

This picture shows it nicely

[image loading]

Note that lines in red mean support and updates will be available only if you start paying Oracle money.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17450 Posts
July 10 2018 22:48 GMT
#19353
I have just learned today that HBO Go is using JQuery. Think on that you front-end bastards!
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
JWD[9]
Profile Blog Joined November 2015
364 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-11 17:25:04
July 11 2018 17:22 GMT
#19354
Don't think to hard about this, I just need to grab some food and then i figure out what black magic is happening here, but if someone in the meantime sees something obvious shout it out. Thank you

so i try to merge dictionaries {string->dictionary{string->none} } in python

And it works...well kinda

def merge_dicts(d, d1):
newd = d.copy()
print(id(d))
print(id(newd))
for key, value in d1.items():
if key in newd:
newd[key]=newd[key].update(d1[key])

else:
newd[key] = value

return newd



d = make_word_dict("dict1.txt")
print(structshape(d))
print("d:",d)
d1= make_word_dict("dict2.txt")
d2 = merge_dicts(d,d1)

print(structshape(d))
print("d:",d)

print(structshape(d1))
print("d1:",d1)

print(structshape(d2))
print("d2",d2)

print(len(d))
print(len(d1))
print(len(d2))
print(id(d))
print(id(d1))
print(id(d2))


the shell output:

dict of 1 str->dict of 1 str->NoneType
d: {'just some strings': {'yo!': None}}
55084688
55108160
dict of 1 str->dict of 2 str->NoneType
d: {'just some strings': {'yo!': None, 'no!': None}}
dict of 1 str->dict of 1 str->NoneType
d1: {'just some strings': {'no!': None}}
dict of 1 str->NoneType
d2 {'just some strings': None}
1
1
1
55084688
55124640
55108160


Is it because the nested dictionaries are never copied? and the top level dictionaries refer to the same nested ones?
Deckard.666
Profile Joined September 2012
152 Posts
July 11 2018 18:31 GMT
#19355


newd[key]=newd[key].update(d1[key])



This is an in-place operation that returns None. What you want is simply


newd[key].update(d1[key])


without the assignment.



newd = d.copy()



This is only making a shallow copy. What you need is a deep copy:


import copy
newd = copy.deepcopy(d)


This way d will be unmodified by the function merge_dicts.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17450 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-11 18:35:17
July 11 2018 18:33 GMT
#19356
http://treyhunner.com/2016/02/how-to-merge-dictionaries-in-python/

+ Show Spoiler [TL:DR] +


def merge_dicts(a, b):
return {**a, **b}

Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
JWD[9]
Profile Blog Joined November 2015
364 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-11 19:37:57
July 11 2018 19:00 GMT
#19357
Wee, thank you Deckard.666.

Manit0u, that looks fancy but is not the exact problem. I don't want to overwrite the values in a with b, i want to combine them.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17450 Posts
July 12 2018 11:49 GMT
#19358
On July 12 2018 04:00 JWD[9] wrote:
Wee, thank you Deckard.666.

Manit0u, that looks fancy but is not the exact problem. I don't want to overwrite the values in a with b, i want to combine them.


Define "combine". That's how usually merge works in various languages. If you don't want to overwrite a with b just do a reverse merge (just swap the params) and you will get all the unique keys from both dicts and preserve original values.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
July 13 2018 05:01 GMT
#19359
don't use deepcopy in python if you care about speed
its soooooo slow

manitou, that syntax makes me want to update to python 3.5...


anyways I just avoid using nested dicts. but if I did, I would be using defaultdicts
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4733 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-16 15:03:00
July 16 2018 15:01 GMT
#19360
travis why 3.5 if You can have 3.6.+

Also to other people dont forget about some more specialized python datatypes, they are super usefull sometimes: https://docs.python.org/3/library/collections.html
Pathetic Greta hater.
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