The Big Programming Thread - Page 624

On April 29 2015 08:56 Nesserev wrote:
Hmmm, that looks interesting, but I always thought that mathematically proven code/certified code was limited to the realm of functional programming. I only glossed over the tutorial, is this the same thing?


Where do they shit on Java? Do you mean the page 'A Java Example' in the tutorial?

On April 24 2015 12:35 Ben... wrote:

I feel old.

On April 29 2015 08:19 FFGenerations wrote:
well i just submitted my Perfect Verification Studio shit attempt + shit report

if you're interested in what it is check out http://www.eschertech.com/tutorial/tutorials.php

its a programming language/software for designing (constructing) code and verifying it against specifications that you also have to construct

ive literally never seen something so difficult to understand. i got to the end of the Basic tutorial understanding nothing and then suddenly they stop giving full code samples and i'm just laughing in disbelief

i've never felt that something is so plain out of my capabilities as this. i just hope he gives me 40/100 so i dont have to do it again, its just flat out beyond me

On April 30 2015 03:11 ZenithM wrote:
Edit: And all of this coming from someone who TEACHES fucking java to students (so I'm part of the never-ending problem, in a way).

On April 30 2015 03:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:


I hope you preach to your students how terrible of a language java is in your classes. One of my professors did that.

On April 30 2015 04:14 solidbebe wrote:
So why is java that bad?

On April 30 2015 06:10 ZenithM wrote:

Haha, I try not to. One thing that Java does right for beginners (but is a huge pain to programmers :D) is that there really is just one way to write something, and you can't take shortcuts. Rigid design choices like "one class per file", type annotations everywhere even where it could be inferred, etc...


There are 2 ways to go about this. Either you type just that in google and I'm sure you'll find plenty of blog posts about why Java sucks. Or you pick any remotely modern programming language with a vague object layer, and read what it's advertised for: that's probably something Java doesn't have.

Edit: The JVM is powerful however. Some design flaws from a long time ago, but otherwise it's just fast, scalable and quite efficient.

On April 30 2015 01:26 ZenithM wrote:

You would have the right to dislike it though, it truly is terrible. Having coded for years in Java, I could argue for days about why it's terrible, and I also know why it's still so much used despite of that.


On another topic, I'm watching Build 2015 right now and they announced Visual Studio Code, a lightweight code editor which works on Windows, Mac and Linux for 12 languages with intellisense, debugging and all the goodies. Good shit :D

On April 30 2015 06:51 Blisse wrote:


Trying it right now, not sure how viable it'll be in replacing ST3 because it's missing plugins but it's a great first effort.

I think they have a very specific target audience with VSC though (web and normal C#) so hopefully they expand it to a more general purpose editor because imo they have better clout than Github or the Sublime guy.

There's really no reason to use Java over C# imo, C# just is a better language in almost every front. It only depends on whether MS can make C# as easy to develop as Java on non-Windows platforms.

On April 30 2015 07:36 Acrofales wrote:


You managed to hit the nail on the head on why you would develop in Java rather than C#: you want to develop for something non-windows. It's not just developing C# on non-windows machines, it is actually running it. C# compilers for other systems are either non-existent or bad.

Other reasons:
server-side Java has better tools and frameworks than C# (imho)
Android development.

public class HelloWorld {
    public static void main(String[] args) {
        System.out.println("Hello World!");
    }
}

print "Hello World!"

On April 30 2015 07:59 Reptilia wrote:
given that c# runs over a virtual machine, shouldnt it be posible to run on mac/linux? what is the reason it is windows dependent?

On April 30 2015 08:04 ZenithM wrote:
I agree that C# is a better Java (but just that, it's not like it's a revolution either ;D). And I think Microsoft is trying to bring it to other platforms (Build 2015 confirms this intention as well). In general I'm a big fan of Microsoft development tools and languages. Their IDE is just nice to use, and C# and F# are cool languages.
But Java just wins as far as portability goes.


There are good implementations for other OS (see Mono), but they're still far below the official Microsoft compiler and runtime, and they're all in all inferior to Java on Linux imo. You're better off using another language if you want portability, but there is no technical reasons as to why C# is mainly a Windows language. Reasons are mainly political or ideological: for example Microsoft had too much control early on on the language for it to develop a good open source scene (plus I think they activally repressed attempts at a cross-platform compiler early on).

On April 30 2015 02:57 Rotodyne wrote:
It seems like an important part of being a programmer is telling other programmers that their language of choice is absolute shit. Probably at least 100 pages in this thread are dedicated to that But yes, you are an asshole if you name a language 'Perfect'

On April 30 2015 08:41 Manit0u wrote:


I don't think it's C# so much but rather the .NET library.