EPTNews: Israel Attacks Gazan Aid Flotilla - Page 24
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semantics
10040 Posts
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Monst3r
119 Posts
On June 01 2010 08:59 Klockan3 wrote: And the crewmembers shouldn't had violently attacked the soldiers... Also that point is moot anyway since if they waited a few hours the boat would be in their waters and the excact same scenario would have happened. But as I stated none here would care about if that law was broken or not, what matters is who started to use force first on who. A peace flotilla should not attack soldiers... They should of done it when the ship was in there waters then. They are still breaking an agreement and it is Israels fault. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On June 01 2010 09:00 Romantic wrote: Another in the long list of Israeli crimes. Long live PLO\Fatah. Too bad Gaza Strip is clearly Hamas ran, which is recognized as a militant/terrorist group in many nations. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On June 01 2010 09:03 Monst3r wrote: They should of done it when the ship was in there waters then. They are still breaking an agreement and it is Israels fault. What I mean is that it is a very minor thing that the anti Israel people perpetuates to say "Israel did the wrong thing first so they are to blame for the whole incident!!!" which is very far from the truth. Also it isn't even clear if it was illegal or not, all we can do is to wait for the investigators to check it out I guess. | ||
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Monst3r
119 Posts
On June 01 2010 09:07 Klockan3 wrote: What I mean is that it is a very minor thing that the anti Israel people perpetuates to say "Israel did the wrong thing first so they are to blame for the whole incident!!!" which is very far from the truth. Also it isn't even clear if it was illegal or not, all we can do is to wait for the investigators to check it out I guess. K, I can agree on you with that one. The activists did take it too far, they should of just sat there and took it, and complained later. | ||
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Armut
Turkey141 Posts
The post will be in the form of: The Situation we had a)Israels demands and thesis' b)Turkish replies to those demands and thesis' 1)Israel demanded the aid to be delivered to them and then transported BY ISRAEL to Gazza. a) Israeli diplomats on Turkish televisions told that Gazza doesnt need any kinda help from out side since Israel is givin 15k ton aid a week to Israel. b) Turkish side showed the reports from Amnesty International that 4/5 palestinians needs aid, water, medicine, food. The most important thing is why palestinians needs Israel to aid them on their OWN land. Turkish authorities and people on TV also just to give a simple example of the double standart and how wrong Israel is on the subject by showing UN's records on Water Usage of Israel and the lack of water in Palestine because the main water resources were taken control by Israel. 2)Israel's ambassador said on the tv that this kinda movement to bring aid to Gazza withouth Israeli authorization is against Israeli's sovereignty rights. a)Israeli ambassador said that Gazza iz underblocade and thus any kind of action taken towards Gazza is related with Israel and any kinda movement in or out of Gazza must be authorized by Israel including any kind of food water medicine or other humaniterien aids. b)Turkish Tv Reporter answered this with goverments thesis' and UN reports + Goldman repots and said the blocade it self is against humaneterian rights plus internatinal law. And as the prime minister Erdogan said Gazza is an "Open Prison" now. So any kind of "Sovereignty right" defence is not valid since Gazza is not Israel's land and the shores are not Israel's territorial waters. 3)Israel said the whole thing is a provocation and a conspirancy of the enemies of Israel. a)The ambassador said the exact thing on the Tv that I wrote above. It does not need any explanation actually but he also said insisting on not giving the aid to Israel for them to deliver it is supporting his idea. b)Tv reporter said why the Humanaterian organisations particularly have to TRUST Israel since UN has repots that some aids delivered to Israel were not given on time to the Palestinians. This part has no facts since Israel most likely think that everbody in the world is against them as long as they dont support what they are doing or they are not "Pro Israel" 4)Israel threatened the ships and said they wont let them come close to the shore. a)This was obvious the ambassador said they will never in any situation let those ships to come close to the shore even if they need to take military measures on them. b)The ships stopped until the morning in the international waters and waitied morning to go close to the shores since the situation with the military measures was risking the food,water, medicine etc on the ships and they wanted to be sure the support from international sources so that they would not be shot while coming close to the shore. 5)Israel said their troops were atacked first and thats the reason for casualities. a)Israeli sources said the military measure was taken and while commandos are landing to the ship the people on the ship atacked them with sticks and try to prevent them from landing on the ship therefore the troops shot and 16 ppl were killed. So its self defence. b)Turkish side says first of all the place this happened was international waters not even palestinien water territory (note that we dont accept Israel's thesis' on those waters are also Israeli's territory since its underblocade). Second of all the operation started at night because Israel tought they could handle it silently and force them to go back or take them to custody without any resistance which is actually very funny since you are landing on someone's ship from a helicopter with commandos and expecting a warm welcome. This didnt happen as they wanted since they were expecting the solve the issue at night before the cameras working in daylight and broadcasting the navy of Israel against the aid to whole world. ___________________ There are other points ofcourse but I am tired of writing. If you want to ask anything I can answer. About the war option and my opinions abou the subject : * War is not an option about this incident said the Prime Minester's assignee while Erdogan was in south america. My opinion on this : Altough we arent even scared or hesitating a little to start a war with Israel, this is not what we want. If we wanted that Israel can be sure that we'd do that and they can freely dream about how they are beating us. But that is definetaly somethign we dont want because War it self is gonna make both jews and palestinians life there worse. No jews are atacked in Istanbul except the protest against the ambassador so you can be sure our reaction even tough you found it extreme is very low. If we are provoked enough to give an extreme reaction I think you would regret that you even dared to do soemthing like that. * My opinion : Israel is slowly destroying itself. maybe they dont realize this but my country and my people has tousands of years experience about running a state and have a huge heritage of world empires behind them like Iran. Tough Israel is a teenage state compared to our heritage (ofcourse if you are blind enough to seperate our republic from the rest of our history this might seem wrong to you) So what I mean exactly is if Israel and Israelis thinking that they can handly with Turkey and Iran together they can try only to see themselves sinking deeper. You are against the 2 ancient nations with probably the most experience in the world with building and ruining states including their own ones  Second, We are against the Zionist facism not JEWS. There are jews we know are not supporting Israel and being a jew does not mean directly being a Zionist. We know that Third, I feel sorry for the people thinking what ever Israel is doing is right, since it must be very bad to under a threat all the time but also muslims and especially Palestinians are not the oness to pay for the crimes comitted against jews in Europe. It is not our business if jew wants to live with us they are welcomed again and always. But if you dare to take the lands of the people and spit on them and turn and say " Hey we had a genocide in our history, sorry we do anything we want then" that means you have to be stopped and we shall do so. | ||
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
On June 01 2010 09:05 semantics wrote: Too bad Gaza Strip is clearly Hamas ran, which is recognized as a militant/terrorist group in many nations. Israel is actually partially to blame for that; it was a part of their strategy to undermine the PLO / Fatah through internal conflict. It didn't work out quite as well as they wanted, though. [edit] whoa super turkish post didn't see that k reading now | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On June 01 2010 09:12 EmeraldSparks wrote: Israel is actually partially to blame for that; it was a part of their strategy to undermine the PLO / Fatah through internal conflict. It didn't work out quite as well as they wanted, though. Yup and now hate breeds hate, more extremists on one side makes more extremists on the other, shame they can't just like combine Gaza and Israel then cut it in half horizontally and call it a day after sharing Jerusalem some how. | ||
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condoriano
United States826 Posts
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
honestly i couldn't care less i just feel like live shouldnt be loss over this crap. | ||
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Armut
Turkey141 Posts
On June 01 2010 09:22 condoriano wrote: Good post Armut, very informative. Thank you for your comment. Also I know I have a lot of grammer mistakes etc but I dont have time to go over and correct them all. I apologize if you could not understand the points I made because of the mistakes. | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
Very interesting how seriously your government takes war and now "it will make life worse for everyone". US uses WAY too many underhanded and even overt threats of attack. And all too often, does attack. I think your assessment of the situation is 100% accurate. Why do the Palestinians need aid on their own land? Exactly. Its a prison. Since a few successful landings have been made in Gaza on the last few years, its obviously emboldened the activists. And its obvious that Israel has had enough. | ||
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ThunderChunky
United States24 Posts
On June 01 2010 09:07 Klockan3 wrote: What I mean is that it is a very minor thing that the anti Israel people perpetuates to say "Israel did the wrong thing first so they are to blame for the whole incident!!!" which is very far from the truth. Also it isn't even clear if it was illegal or not, all we can do is to wait for the investigators to check it out I guess. The "minor thing" is what ignited the incident. If it was an illegal act, Israel is to blame because it is foreseeable that illegally boarding a ship can lead to violence. Just like breaking into someone's home. If you break into someone's home and they attack you...it's your own fault. If you then kill them, it's murder. If you had a warrant to enter the house, then the occupants attacking you would be the one's breaking the law and they would be at fault. Do you see how the initial act can put everything in a different context depending on whether it was legal or not? | ||
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Rinrun
Canada3509 Posts
I can't see this getting any better; Turkey has already made the first step, others just need to do similar, we can't let something like that unfold on international waters without any consequences - it sets a bad precedent. I find it weird cause we were just talking about the choice of words and sanctions and such in Politics class just a couple of days a ago (Looks like there will be another thing to talk about in tomorrows class). | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
I ask because all we get in america is the standard "oh, all arabs hate you and want you dead, they all have nukes and can blow us to smithereens at any moment" (similar to the claims made about the USSR, which were later proven false). It would be nice to hear what the actual feelings are over there. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
GENEVA (31 May 2010) – The UN Special Rapporteur for the Occupied Palestinian Territories, Richard Falk, urged Monday the international community to bring to justice those responsible for the killing of some 16 unarmed peace activist, when Israeli armed commandos stormed a convoy of ships carrying aid to Gaza. “Israel is guilty of shocking behavior by using deadly weapons against unarmed civilians on ships that were situated in the high seas where freedom of navigation exists, according to the law of the seas,” Mr. Falk said. “It is essential that those Israelis responsible for this lawless and murderous behavior, including political leaders who issued the orders, be held criminally accountable for their wrongful acts.” There are confirmed reports of lethal interference by Israeli military units on the high seas with the Freedom Flotilla of six ships carrying some 10,000 tons of medicine, food, and building materials to the civilian population of Gaza. Preliminary reports suggest as many as 16 unarmed activists were killed, and dozens more wounded. “This peaceful humanitarian initiative by citizens from 50 countries is an urgent response to the continuation of an unlawful blockade that has been maintained for almost three years causing great physical and mental harm to the whole of the 1.5 million people entrapped within Gaza,” the UN independent expert said. “Such a massive form of collective punishment is a crime against humanity, as well as a gross violation of the prohibition on collective punishment in Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.” “As Special Rapporteur for the Occupied Palestinian Territories, familiar with the suffering of the people of Gaza, I find this latest instance of Israeli military lawlessness to create a situation of regional and global emergency. Unless prompt and decisive action is taken to challenge the Israeli approach to Gaza all of us will be complicit in criminal policies that are challenging the survival of an entire beleaguered community.” Mr. Falk urged the world community “to take urgent action in response to this flagrant flouting of international law. It is time to insist on the end of the blockade of Gaza. The worldwide campaign of boycott, divestment, and sanctions against Israel is now a moral and political imperative, and needs to be supported and strengthened everywhere.” Source | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
Thanks Stealth. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
On June 01 2010 14:35 cursor wrote: I'd really like to think that THIS is the event that will turn the attention of the world to how unjust Israel has been towards the Palestinians and finally get the fence sitters to actually come down on the right side. Pay attention to what the UN edicts, and what the US vetos- should it come to that. Thanks Stealth. The UN is hardly effective though, as you pointed out it's just follows the interest of 5 countries, one of those being the US. Along with the UN has had plenty of issues of it's own, such as soldiers committing robbery, rape etc and they cannot be held accountable as the UN charter grants all UN employees immunity. UN is mostly for posturing not for getting shit tone sadly enough. Although Turkey has some barging power as i believe a major US air base used to get to the middle east, that is heavily used due to well...the wars, but that all depends on the agreement of that air base and if Turkey is willing to renege. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ Thank you, Mr. President and thank you, Assistant Secretary-General Fernandez-Taranco. The United States is deeply disturbed by the recent violence and regrets the tragic loss of life and injuries suffered among those involved in the incident last night aboard the Gaza-bound ships. We are working to ascertain the facts. We expect a credible and transparent investigation and strongly urge the Israeli government to investigate the incident fully. As I stated in the Chamber in December 2008, when we were confronted by a similar situation, mechanisms exist for the transfer of humanitarian assistance to Gaza by member states and groups that want to do so. These non-provocative and non-confrontational mechanisms should be the ones used for the benefit of all those in Gaza. Direct delivery by sea is neither appropriate nor responsible, and certainly not effective, under the circumstances. The United States remains deeply concerned by the suffering of civilians in Gaza, and the deterioration of the situation there, including the humanitarian and human rights situation. We continue to believe the situation is unsustainable and is not in the interests of any of those concerned. We will continue to engage the Israelis on a daily basis to expand the scope and type of goods allowed into Gaza to address the full range of the population’s humanitarian and recovery needs. Hamas’ interference with international assistance shipments and the work of nongovernmental organizations complicates efforts in Gaza. Its continued arms smuggling and commitment to terrorism undermines security and prosperity for Palestinians and Israelis alike. We will continue to work closely with the Government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority, along with international NGOs and the UN, to provide adequate access for humanitarian goods, including reconstruction materials, through the border crossings, while bearing in mind the Government of Israel’s legitimate security concerns. Ultimately, this incident underscores the need to move ahead quickly with negotiations that can lead to a comprehensive peace in the region. The only viable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is an agreement, negotiated between the parties, that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfills the aspirations of both parties for independent homelands through two states for two peoples, Israel and an independent, contiguous, and viable state of Palestine, living side by side in peace and security. We call again on our international partners – both inside and outside this Council – to promote an atmosphere of cooperation between the parties and throughout the entire region. Thank you, Mr. President. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | ||
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