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On May 31 2010 21:59 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:
Many Eastern Germans believe the wall should've been left there, so do many Western Germans. No offense.
It's truly amazing what many Germans turned into (I still think that was only a stupid post not connected with reality) compared to what Jews became. They basically switched places in history.
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On June 01 2010 02:21 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 02:19 LogaiN wrote:
Terrorist state in action. Nothing surprising here.
Amazing how we (read West) are chasing terrorist around the world when we have one of the biggest terrorist right in front of us (read Israel)
It will be discussed a week and then it will die out.
What you think that your statement is so much more true then anyone elses becuase you ended your sentence with observation humor related to how the public has a short attention span when it comes to news? 6 day war look it up, if isriel is a terrorist state it makes a ton more states terrorist states.
I would never deny that. There are plenty of terrorist states.
But this thread is very related to Israel, right?
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On June 01 2010 01:52 haduken wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 00:29 Doix wrote:If anyone is interested, the Israeli army released footage of what happened here: http://news.walla.co.il/?w=/1/1681096The way Israel handled the situation was completely stupid. Pretty much everything they did was stupid. The first mistake they did was engage the ship in international waters... I really want to hear the logic behind that because I can't think of anything. The next mistake was to send a small amount of commandos(armed with pistols) to a ship with like 600 people. Who the hell thought they wouldn't get over-whelmed... Then they had to send another group (this time armed with rifles) to save the other group, obviously this resulted in a bunch of deaths. Now what they should of done was wait for them to enter Israeli waters (after warning them not to), then sink their ships (from far away) and casually save the passengers. I mean a bunch of Israeli soldiers got injured for nothing, I bet they would've been killed if the passengers had proper guns. Idiotic planning... rofl, seriously dude, sink their ship and "casually" save the passengers. Here's some hints for you: 1. WARSHIP 2. BIG GUNS 3. BIG HOLES IN SHIPS 4. PEOPLE DYING You didn't think that one through did you?
Haha, I'll admit I actually didn't consider how they'd sink the ship without harming the passengers ( such a weapon should really be invented). Anyhow, my point still stands. They way Israel did it was pretty much the worst possible way. They made them selves look really bad by doing this in international waters ( they could of come out looking slightly better if it was in Israeli waters) AND a bunch of their soldiers got injured.
Damn naval warfare complicating things  .
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The UN of course does nothing in just one day, maybe they'll ask for an investigation and condemn the episode(this is what i heard in the news) if the us doesn't veto the resolution. The investigation has to be an independent international one, but Israel has so far just ignored requests regarding this investigation.
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On June 01 2010 02:29 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 02:28 Autofire2 wrote:
OK...why is everyone taking the "Israel warned them" as a defense? I mean, the legality of the blockade and the fact that it was boarding while in international waters might be debatable. It seems like Israel was in the wrong but maybe a legal expert can confirm or deny this.
But the warning? How is that a defense? Is everyone in the world supposed to tiptoe around this country (not even in their territory or waters) because they tell people "look at us funny and we'll **** your **** up?"
You know what, what if it had been Iran that created this blockade and killed those unarmed, western activists? Would as many people be standing up for them because Ahmedinijad "warned" them? Hell, a war might have been declared by now.
I'm no fan of Iran's domestic or foreign policy, but you see my point. Why let Israel off the hook for something that would be condemned if it was coming from any other country with a very suspect human rights record?
Lol this is the Internet... tons of people would be going "What dumb asses, they got what they knew what was coming" Anyways if you want to maintain that you are peaceful, you don't scurry around when commandos storm your boat, you sit lock your selves in and don't move.
How about don't act as pirates and this wouldn't have happened.
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How to achieve peace in the west bank. America cuts foreign aid to both Israel until they make peace.
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On June 01 2010 02:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
How to achieve peace in the west bank. America cuts foreign aid to both Israel until they make peace.
The west bank is something to focus on the mistreatment there is clear and they don't usually fire rockets at you too. I mean gaza strip is also mistreated but they aren't exactly the peacefully ran failed state
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On June 01 2010 02:45 Pika Chu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 02:29 semantics wrote:On June 01 2010 02:28 Autofire2 wrote:
OK...why is everyone taking the "Israel warned them" as a defense? I mean, the legality of the blockade and the fact that it was boarding while in international waters might be debatable. It seems like Israel was in the wrong but maybe a legal expert can confirm or deny this.
But the warning? How is that a defense? Is everyone in the world supposed to tiptoe around this country (not even in their territory or waters) because they tell people "look at us funny and we'll **** your **** up?"
You know what, what if it had been Iran that created this blockade and killed those unarmed, western activists? Would as many people be standing up for them because Ahmedinijad "warned" them? Hell, a war might have been declared by now.
I'm no fan of Iran's domestic or foreign policy, but you see my point. Why let Israel off the hook for something that would be condemned if it was coming from any other country with a very suspect human rights record?
Lol this is the Internet... tons of people would be going "What dumb asses, they got what they knew what was coming" Anyways if you want to maintain that you are peaceful, you don't scurry around when commandos storm your boat, you sit lock your selves in and don't move. How about don't act as pirates and this wouldn't have happened.
So your solution would just be to let Hamas fortify Gaza until the whole place turns into Mogadishu?
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On June 01 2010 02:56 Biochemist wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 02:45 Pika Chu wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 semantics wrote:On June 01 2010 02:28 Autofire2 wrote:
OK...why is everyone taking the "Israel warned them" as a defense? I mean, the legality of the blockade and the fact that it was boarding while in international waters might be debatable. It seems like Israel was in the wrong but maybe a legal expert can confirm or deny this.
But the warning? How is that a defense? Is everyone in the world supposed to tiptoe around this country (not even in their territory or waters) because they tell people "look at us funny and we'll **** your **** up?"
You know what, what if it had been Iran that created this blockade and killed those unarmed, western activists? Would as many people be standing up for them because Ahmedinijad "warned" them? Hell, a war might have been declared by now.
I'm no fan of Iran's domestic or foreign policy, but you see my point. Why let Israel off the hook for something that would be condemned if it was coming from any other country with a very suspect human rights record?
Lol this is the Internet... tons of people would be going "What dumb asses, they got what they knew what was coming" Anyways if you want to maintain that you are peaceful, you don't scurry around when commandos storm your boat, you sit lock your selves in and don't move. How about don't act as pirates and this wouldn't have happened. So your solution would just be to let Hamas fortify Gaza until the whole place turns into Mogadishu?
OR just wait until the ship leaves international waters. Though the blockade itself isn't exactly legal.
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Brings us back to the U.S.S Liberty incident does it not? Israel does what it wants when it wants and the US will do nothing to stop it as it has since LBJ. I completely fail to see how anyone in this thread can sit there and try and justify what Israel has done although I can't say I'm surprised in the least, if you pay close attention it's always the same people and the same defence but it is wearing thin, you cannot use the same tired justifications for every transgression.
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On June 01 2010 02:56 Biochemist wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 02:45 Pika Chu wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 semantics wrote:On June 01 2010 02:28 Autofire2 wrote:
OK...why is everyone taking the "Israel warned them" as a defense? I mean, the legality of the blockade and the fact that it was boarding while in international waters might be debatable. It seems like Israel was in the wrong but maybe a legal expert can confirm or deny this.
But the warning? How is that a defense? Is everyone in the world supposed to tiptoe around this country (not even in their territory or waters) because they tell people "look at us funny and we'll **** your **** up?"
You know what, what if it had been Iran that created this blockade and killed those unarmed, western activists? Would as many people be standing up for them because Ahmedinijad "warned" them? Hell, a war might have been declared by now.
I'm no fan of Iran's domestic or foreign policy, but you see my point. Why let Israel off the hook for something that would be condemned if it was coming from any other country with a very suspect human rights record?
Lol this is the Internet... tons of people would be going "What dumb asses, they got what they knew what was coming" Anyways if you want to maintain that you are peaceful, you don't scurry around when commandos storm your boat, you sit lock your selves in and don't move. How about don't act as pirates and this wouldn't have happened. So your solution would just be to let Hamas fortify Gaza until the whole place turns into Mogadishu?
My solution for what, peace? My solution is to give palestinians back a part of their territory so they can build themselves a palestinian state. Only then the area will calm down.
And a solution for this is that Israel starts acting normal and follow the laws and international treaties.
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On June 01 2010 02:56 Biochemist wrote:
So your solution would just be to let Hamas fortify Gaza until the whole place turns into Mogadishu?
Aha, so THAT's what they're doing with all the humanitary aid. Bastards. So when the Red Cross aren't allowed to bring in supplies it's due to Hamas building bunkers and walls out of med kits?
Get real.
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On June 01 2010 02:44 Doix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 01:52 haduken wrote:On June 01 2010 00:29 Doix wrote:If anyone is interested, the Israeli army released footage of what happened here: http://news.walla.co.il/?w=/1/1681096The way Israel handled the situation was completely stupid. Pretty much everything they did was stupid. The first mistake they did was engage the ship in international waters... I really want to hear the logic behind that because I can't think of anything. The next mistake was to send a small amount of commandos(armed with pistols) to a ship with like 600 people. Who the hell thought they wouldn't get over-whelmed... Then they had to send another group (this time armed with rifles) to save the other group, obviously this resulted in a bunch of deaths. Now what they should of done was wait for them to enter Israeli waters (after warning them not to), then sink their ships (from far away) and casually save the passengers. I mean a bunch of Israeli soldiers got injured for nothing, I bet they would've been killed if the passengers had proper guns. Idiotic planning... rofl, seriously dude, sink their ship and "casually" save the passengers. Here's some hints for you: 1. WARSHIP 2. BIG GUNS 3. BIG HOLES IN SHIPS 4. PEOPLE DYING You didn't think that one through did you? Haha, I'll admit I actually didn't consider how they'd sink the ship without harming the passengers ( such a weapon should really be invented). Anyhow, my point still stands. They way Israel did it was pretty much the worst possible way. They made them selves look really bad by doing this in international waters ( they could of come out looking slightly better if it was in Israeli waters) AND a bunch of their soldiers got injured. Damn naval warfare complicating things .
Limpet mines would do a good trick at blowing a hole big enough to let water in and slowly sink the ship. Place it in the right place and only if the ship's crew were incompetent, bumbling fools who don't know how to launch lifeboats would you have deaths.
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On June 01 2010 03:03 Pika Chu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 02:56 Biochemist wrote:On June 01 2010 02:45 Pika Chu wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 semantics wrote:On June 01 2010 02:28 Autofire2 wrote:
OK...why is everyone taking the "Israel warned them" as a defense? I mean, the legality of the blockade and the fact that it was boarding while in international waters might be debatable. It seems like Israel was in the wrong but maybe a legal expert can confirm or deny this.
But the warning? How is that a defense? Is everyone in the world supposed to tiptoe around this country (not even in their territory or waters) because they tell people "look at us funny and we'll **** your **** up?"
You know what, what if it had been Iran that created this blockade and killed those unarmed, western activists? Would as many people be standing up for them because Ahmedinijad "warned" them? Hell, a war might have been declared by now.
I'm no fan of Iran's domestic or foreign policy, but you see my point. Why let Israel off the hook for something that would be condemned if it was coming from any other country with a very suspect human rights record?
Lol this is the Internet... tons of people would be going "What dumb asses, they got what they knew what was coming" Anyways if you want to maintain that you are peaceful, you don't scurry around when commandos storm your boat, you sit lock your selves in and don't move. How about don't act as pirates and this wouldn't have happened. So your solution would just be to let Hamas fortify Gaza until the whole place turns into Mogadishu? My solution for what, peace? My solution is to give palestinians back a part of their territory so they can build themselves a palestinian state. Only then the area will calm down. And a solution for this is that Israel starts acting normal and follow the laws and international treaties.
Maybe in the west bank near the boarder imo, but i mean gaza strip is hardly the place to start.
To the Israelis from what they see every year there are still too many Palestinians who want to blow Israel off the face of the earth for them to really try, they run by the mentality that there is no long term solution only patching things up here and there, short term peace esp with neighboring countries.
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On June 01 2010 03:06 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 02:56 Biochemist wrote:
So your solution would just be to let Hamas fortify Gaza until the whole place turns into Mogadishu?
Aha, so THAT's what they're doing with all the humanitary aid. Bastards. So when the Red Cross aren't allowed to bring in supplies it's due to Hamas building bunkers and walls out of med kits? Get real.
No they would sell the supplies to get smuggled weapons over in tunnels from Egypt. you get real.
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Wait... children aboard the flotilla? What? Why would there be children aboard the flotilla?
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On June 01 2010 03:03 Pika Chu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 02:56 Biochemist wrote:On June 01 2010 02:45 Pika Chu wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 semantics wrote:On June 01 2010 02:28 Autofire2 wrote:
OK...why is everyone taking the "Israel warned them" as a defense? I mean, the legality of the blockade and the fact that it was boarding while in international waters might be debatable. It seems like Israel was in the wrong but maybe a legal expert can confirm or deny this.
But the warning? How is that a defense? Is everyone in the world supposed to tiptoe around this country (not even in their territory or waters) because they tell people "look at us funny and we'll **** your **** up?"
You know what, what if it had been Iran that created this blockade and killed those unarmed, western activists? Would as many people be standing up for them because Ahmedinijad "warned" them? Hell, a war might have been declared by now.
I'm no fan of Iran's domestic or foreign policy, but you see my point. Why let Israel off the hook for something that would be condemned if it was coming from any other country with a very suspect human rights record?
Lol this is the Internet... tons of people would be going "What dumb asses, they got what they knew what was coming" Anyways if you want to maintain that you are peaceful, you don't scurry around when commandos storm your boat, you sit lock your selves in and don't move. How about don't act as pirates and this wouldn't have happened. So your solution would just be to let Hamas fortify Gaza until the whole place turns into Mogadishu? My solution for what, peace? My solution is to give palestinians back a part of their territory so they can build themselves a palestinian state. Only then the area will calm down. And a solution for this is that Israel starts acting normal and follow the laws and international treaties.
Just a rhetorical question:
If Palestinians say: "Our state should be all the land that Israel owns, no more, no less. If we DO NOT get this, we will not play by the rules of nation-states like following international laws and treaties." Would you tolerate that kind of action? If their expression of such an emotion would be to randomly bombard your homes, businesses and schools, do you think you'd give them what you would normally feel to be reasonable terms?
I admit that Israel's actions only serve to stir up more extremism and hatred amongst Palestinians, but if given a hand of concessions, they would still grab an arm; unless their own populations get fed up with it and do not tolerate them, there would be little change in the situation.
What I am also just as concerned of is the maltreatment of Palestinian refugees OUTSIDE of Israel. Have you ever heard a peep of news about such things? Many of their camps in countries like Jordan, Syria and Egypt are tents despite living there for half a century, because of the fear they would rather settle there permanently.
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On June 01 2010 03:16 Severedevil wrote:
Wait... children aboard the flotilla? What? Why would there be children aboard the flotilla?
Human shields? And the BIG mistake here was storming the TURKISH ship. Had they taken over say... the American ship in the fleet, would the same resistance have been offered?
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So apparently more aid ships will be sent this time escorted by the Turkish Navy...
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EPT
