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News: Israel Attacks Gazan Aid Flotilla - Page 12

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Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
May 31 2010 16:33 GMT
#221
The funny part is I remember reading this

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/29/world/middleeast/29briefs-israel.html

And thinking "Oh shit...this can only end in blood and tears". "Plz god no just go back".


Ok maybe not "funny" part. How about "Ironically Morbid".
Too Busy to Troll!
Weryeery
Profile Joined June 2008
288 Posts
May 31 2010 16:44 GMT
#222
I dont understand why everyone is acting like if they just discovered with this incident that Israel dont mind killing unarmed civilians (or maybe metal bars are WMD i dont know). They had just doing it everyday for years.
jax1492
Profile Joined November 2009
United States1632 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-31 16:52:53
May 31 2010 16:52 GMT
#223
i think Israel could have handled this better, i understand why they can't allow ships to bring stuff to gaza but man they look bad on 2 fronts now.
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-31 16:54:10
May 31 2010 16:52 GMT
#224
On June 01 2010 00:29 Doix wrote:
If anyone is interested, the Israeli army released footage of what happened here:
http://news.walla.co.il/?w=/1/1681096

The way Israel handled the situation was completely stupid. Pretty much everything they did was stupid. The first mistake they did was engage the ship in international waters... I really want to hear the logic behind that because I can't think of anything.

The next mistake was to send a small amount of commandos(armed with pistols) to a ship with like 600 people. Who the hell thought they wouldn't get over-whelmed... Then they had to send another group (this time armed with rifles) to save the other group, obviously this resulted in a bunch of deaths.

Now what they should of done was wait for them to enter Israeli waters (after warning them not to), then sink their ships (from far away) and casually save the passengers. I mean a bunch of Israeli soldiers got injured for nothing, I bet they would've been killed if the passengers had proper guns. Idiotic planning...



rofl, seriously dude, sink their ship and "casually" save the passengers.

Here's some hints for you:

1. WARSHIP
2. BIG GUNS
3. BIG HOLES IN SHIPS
4. PEOPLE DYING

You didn't think that one through did you?
Rillanon.au
EmeraldSparks
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1451 Posts
May 31 2010 16:54 GMT
#225
Super Israeli EuroJew Media Master Spin Machine ACTIVATE

(don't ban me i'm being facetious)

A brutal ambush at sea
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html
Ron Ben Yishai recounts bloody clash aboard Gaza-bound vessel: The lacking crowd-dispersal means, the brutal violence of ‘peace activists,’ and the attempt to bring down an IDF helicopter

Our Navy commandoes fell right into the hands of the Gaza mission members. A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessel’s bridge and order the Marmara’s captain to stop.

Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation’s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.

Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.

However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.

One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows.

‘I saw the tip of a rifle’

The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.

The planned rush towards the vessel’s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. “Throw stun grenades,” shouted Flotilla 13’s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.

The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter. At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.

Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.

“I saw the tip of a rifle sticking out of the stairwell,” one commando said. “He fired at us and we fired back. We didn’t see if we hit him. We looked for him later but couldn’t find him.” Two soldiers sustained gunshot wounds to their knee and stomach after rioters apparently fired at them using guns wrested away from troops.

2 errors

During the commotion, another commando was stabbed with a knife. In a later search aboard the Marmara, soldiers found caches of bats, clubs, knives, and slingshots used by the rioters ahead of the IDF takeover. It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.

Some passengers on the ship stood at the back and pounded the soldiers’ hands as they attempted to climb on board. Only after a 30-minute shootout and brutal assaults using clubs and knifes did commandoes manage to reach the bridge and take over the Marmara.

It appears that the error in planning the operation was the estimate that passengers were indeed political activists and members of humanitarian groups who seek a political provocation, but would not resort to brutal violence. The soldiers thought they will encounter Bilin-style violence; instead, they got Bangkok. The forces that disembarked from the helicopters were few; just dozens of troops – not enough to contend with the large group awaiting them.

The second error was that commanders did not address seriously enough the fact that a group of men were expecting the soldiers on the top deck. Had they addressed this more seriously, they may have hurled tear-gas grenades and smoke grenades from the helicopter to create a screen that would have enabled them to carry out their mission, without the fighters falling right into the hands of the rioters, who severely assaulted them.


The plot thickens.
But why?
Ciryandor
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3735 Posts
May 31 2010 16:59 GMT
#226
On June 01 2010 01:52 haduken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2010 00:29 Doix wrote:
If anyone is interested, the Israeli army released footage of what happened here:
http://news.walla.co.il/?w=/1/1681096

The way Israel handled the situation was completely stupid. Pretty much everything they did was stupid. The first mistake they did was engage the ship in international waters... I really want to hear the logic behind that because I can't think of anything.

The next mistake was to send a small amount of commandos(armed with pistols) to a ship with like 600 people. Who the hell thought they wouldn't get over-whelmed... Then they had to send another group (this time armed with rifles) to save the other group, obviously this resulted in a bunch of deaths.

Now what they should of done was wait for them to enter Israeli waters (after warning them not to), then sink their ships (from far away) and casually save the passengers. I mean a bunch of Israeli soldiers got injured for nothing, I bet they would've been killed if the passengers had proper guns. Idiotic planning...



rofl, seriously dude, sink their ship and "casually" save the passengers.

Here's some hints for you:

1. WARSHIP
2. BIG GUNS
3. BIG HOLES IN SHIPS
4. PEOPLE DYING

You didn't think that one through did you?

Big holes that let in air don't sink ships.

However:

Big holes that let WATER in do. If they REALLY wanted to sink the ship, do a Rainbow Warrior on it. Would have "pointed" blame to them anyway, but much less confrontational than dropping people off.
에일리 and 아이유 <3 - O Captain 박재혁 ・゚✧*:・*゚+..。✧・゚:*・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚* ゜・*:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING ・゜・:・゚✧*:・゚✧。*゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:*・゜・:・゚✧*::
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
May 31 2010 17:00 GMT
#227
On June 01 2010 01:44 Weryeery wrote:
I dont understand why everyone is acting like if they just discovered with this incident that Israel dont mind killing unarmed civilians (or maybe metal bars are WMD i dont know). They had just doing it everyday for years.

... well thank you for this contribution. It's certainly news to me that Israel doesn't care about the deaths of innocents and in fact, kills them everyday. Fascinating, tell me more
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
May 31 2010 17:03 GMT
#228
Israel said they'd use force to stop unauthorized naval activity, and they did. If anything, good for them.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-31 17:11:50
May 31 2010 17:06 GMT
#229
On June 01 2010 01:59 Ciryandor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2010 01:52 haduken wrote:
On June 01 2010 00:29 Doix wrote:
If anyone is interested, the Israeli army released footage of what happened here:
http://news.walla.co.il/?w=/1/1681096

The way Israel handled the situation was completely stupid. Pretty much everything they did was stupid. The first mistake they did was engage the ship in international waters... I really want to hear the logic behind that because I can't think of anything.

The next mistake was to send a small amount of commandos(armed with pistols) to a ship with like 600 people. Who the hell thought they wouldn't get over-whelmed... Then they had to send another group (this time armed with rifles) to save the other group, obviously this resulted in a bunch of deaths.

Now what they should of done was wait for them to enter Israeli waters (after warning them not to), then sink their ships (from far away) and casually save the passengers. I mean a bunch of Israeli soldiers got injured for nothing, I bet they would've been killed if the passengers had proper guns. Idiotic planning...



rofl, seriously dude, sink their ship and "casually" save the passengers.

Here's some hints for you:

1. WARSHIP
2. BIG GUNS
3. BIG HOLES IN SHIPS
4. PEOPLE DYING

You didn't think that one through did you?

Big holes that let in air don't sink ships.

However:

Big holes that let WATER in do. If they REALLY wanted to sink the ship, do a Rainbow Warrior on it. Would have "pointed" blame to them anyway, but much less confrontational than dropping people off.


My point is that to sink a modern ship, you either blast it with heavy rounds or torpedo it or detonate within (I think this is what your rainbow warrior is referring to, damn it i had to google it).

The detonation from these methods would kill a lot more people, I think we can agree on that.

Now if we are playing being general, What the Israelies could've done is pull a Russian, board the ship with heavily armed troops, capture everyone, sail the ship far into the ocean, put the hostages on a life boat and leave them floating. bam, no blame, no witnesses.
Rillanon.au
Pika Chu
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Romania2510 Posts
May 31 2010 17:10 GMT
#230
On June 01 2010 02:03 Floophead_III wrote:
Israel said they'd use force to stop unauthorized naval activity, and they did. If anything, good for them.


And i heard that North Korea will use force to stop unauthorized naval activity near it and they did. If anything, good for them.
They first ignore you. After they laugh at you. Next they will fight you. In the end you will win.
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
May 31 2010 17:13 GMT
#231
On June 01 2010 02:00 n.DieJokes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2010 01:44 Weryeery wrote:
I dont understand why everyone is acting like if they just discovered with this incident that Israel dont mind killing unarmed civilians (or maybe metal bars are WMD i dont know). They had just doing it everyday for years.

... well thank you for this contribution. It's certainly news to me that Israel doesn't care about the deaths of innocents and in fact, kills them everyday. Fascinating, tell me more


Every day is not technically correct but the general idea does seem to be correct.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8149464.stm
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-31 17:15:41
May 31 2010 17:13 GMT
#232
True commandos should have disabled their propellers without getting on the boat although ionno how hard that is on a really big boat like the ones i saw were in that caravan

Both are probably at fault here ionno why people are blaming one side more then the other. Israel acted a bit too soon on the matter. And think for a second on who benefits the most is they were "violently attacked" by Israeli commandos, when i pointed out earlier they are going for showmen ship, considering the articles i read is they waited outside of Israeli waters at night because they wanted the confrontation during the day for more publicity.

On June 01 2010 02:10 Pika Chu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2010 02:03 Floophead_III wrote:
Israel said they'd use force to stop unauthorized naval activity, and they did. If anything, good for them.


And i heard that North Korea will use force to stop unauthorized naval activity near it and they did. If anything, good for them.

What couldn't use nazi's? instead. NK has rights to defend their waters as much as any other state if you're not going to respect that then that's your decision. Just saying you reap what you sow.
LogaiN
Profile Joined June 2003
Sweden1073 Posts
May 31 2010 17:19 GMT
#233
Terrorist state in action. Nothing surprising here.

Amazing how we (read West) are chasing terrorist around the world when we have one of the biggest terrorist right in front of us (read Israel)

It will be discussed a week and then it will die out.
GulleFjuN@Europe
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
May 31 2010 17:21 GMT
#234
On June 01 2010 02:19 LogaiN wrote:
Terrorist state in action. Nothing surprising here.

Amazing how we (read West) are chasing terrorist around the world when we have one of the biggest terrorist right in front of us (read Israel)

It will be discussed a week and then it will die out.

What you think that your statement is so much more true then anyone elses becuase you ended your sentence with observation humor related to how the public has a short attention span when it comes to news?

6 day war look it up, if isriel is a terrorist state it makes a ton more states terrorist states.
AlgeriaT
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden2197 Posts
May 31 2010 17:25 GMT
#235
New video footage up on Israel military's official Youtube acct:

CORN GIRL + Flash + FanTaSy + CholeraSC + iNcontroL 4 eva <3
Windblade
Profile Joined July 2009
United States161 Posts
May 31 2010 17:25 GMT
#236
I dont see Obama putting up with all this BS for long. Unlike other US presidents Obama has first-hand experience with Muslims (he spent a good chunk of his childhood in Indonesia or was it Malaysia). As such, he cant turn a blind eye to any of this...I think the US needs a wakeup call on this, Israel isn't even really listening to us.

If they lose US support they are dead, only reason no one wants to fight Israel is cuz of the US.
Ciryandor
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3735 Posts
May 31 2010 17:25 GMT
#237
On June 01 2010 02:06 haduken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2010 01:59 Ciryandor wrote:
On June 01 2010 01:52 haduken wrote:
On June 01 2010 00:29 Doix wrote:
If anyone is interested, the Israeli army released footage of what happened here:
http://news.walla.co.il/?w=/1/1681096

The way Israel handled the situation was completely stupid. Pretty much everything they did was stupid. The first mistake they did was engage the ship in international waters... I really want to hear the logic behind that because I can't think of anything.

The next mistake was to send a small amount of commandos(armed with pistols) to a ship with like 600 people. Who the hell thought they wouldn't get over-whelmed... Then they had to send another group (this time armed with rifles) to save the other group, obviously this resulted in a bunch of deaths.

Now what they should of done was wait for them to enter Israeli waters (after warning them not to), then sink their ships (from far away) and casually save the passengers. I mean a bunch of Israeli soldiers got injured for nothing, I bet they would've been killed if the passengers had proper guns. Idiotic planning...



rofl, seriously dude, sink their ship and "casually" save the passengers.

Here's some hints for you:

1. WARSHIP
2. BIG GUNS
3. BIG HOLES IN SHIPS
4. PEOPLE DYING

You didn't think that one through did you?

Big holes that let in air don't sink ships.

However:

Big holes that let WATER in do. If they REALLY wanted to sink the ship, do a Rainbow Warrior on it. Would have "pointed" blame to them anyway, but much less confrontational than dropping people off.


My point is that to sink a modern ship, you either blast it with heavy rounds or torpedo it or detonate within (I think this is what your rainbow warrior is referring to, damn it i had to google it).

The detonation from these methods would kill a lot more people, I think we can agree on that.

Now if we are playing being general, What the Israelies should've done is pull a Russian, board the ship with heavily armed troops, capture everyone, sail the ship far into the ocean, put them on a life boat and leave them floating. bam, no blame, no witness.

The disappearance of such a ship on such a busy waterway as the Mediterranean would be a finger pointing directly at Israel. In this day and age of satellite photography and UAVs, who knows which countries would have people checking out that mission itself if you take it out that way. And the comparative of Rainbow Warrior with the crippling of a six-ship fleet by rigging limpet mines on their screws/rudders would be feasible. The main difficulty of course would be doing it while moving and without getting chopped to pieces by the propellers, but planting it at the rear to cause damage to the engineering spaces and stall the fleet would have been expeditious, plausibly deniable, and much less damaging to both sides. Worst case scenario is the ship sinking for a few hours and waiting for lifeboats.
에일리 and 아이유 <3 - O Captain 박재혁 ・゚✧*:・*゚+..。✧・゚:*・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚* ゜・*:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING ・゜・:・゚✧*:・゚✧。*゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:*・゜・:・゚✧*::
Autofire2
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Pakistan290 Posts
May 31 2010 17:28 GMT
#238
OK...why is everyone taking the "Israel warned them" as a defense? I mean, the legality of the blockade and the fact that it was boarding while in international waters might be debatable. It seems like Israel was in the wrong but maybe a legal expert can confirm or deny this.

But the warning? How is that a defense? Is everyone in the world supposed to tiptoe around this country (not even in their territory or waters) because they tell people "look at us funny and we'll **** your **** up?"

You know what, what if it had been Iran that created this blockade and killed those unarmed, western activists? Would as many people be standing up for them because Ahmedinijad "warned" them? Hell, a war might have been declared by now.

I'm no fan of Iran's domestic or foreign policy, but you see my point. Why let Israel off the hook for something that would be condemned if it was coming from any other country with a very suspect human rights record?



semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-31 17:30:57
May 31 2010 17:29 GMT
#239
On June 01 2010 02:28 Autofire2 wrote:
OK...why is everyone taking the "Israel warned them" as a defense? I mean, the legality of the blockade and the fact that it was boarding while in international waters might be debatable. It seems like Israel was in the wrong but maybe a legal expert can confirm or deny this.

But the warning? How is that a defense? Is everyone in the world supposed to tiptoe around this country (not even in their territory or waters) because they tell people "look at us funny and we'll **** your **** up?"

You know what, what if it had been Iran that created this blockade and killed those unarmed, western activists? Would as many people be standing up for them because Ahmedinijad "warned" them? Hell, a war might have been declared by now.

I'm no fan of Iran's domestic or foreign policy, but you see my point. Why let Israel off the hook for something that would be condemned if it was coming from any other country with a very suspect human rights record?




Lol this is the Internet... tons of people would be going "What dumb asses, they got what they knew what was coming"

Anyways if you want to maintain that you are peaceful, you don't scurry around when commandos storm your boat, you sit lock your selves in and don't move.
Biochemist
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1008 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-31 17:31:29
May 31 2010 17:30 GMT
#240
On June 01 2010 02:25 Windblade wrote:
I dont see Obama putting up with all this BS for long. Unlike other US presidents Obama has first-hand experience with Muslims (he spent a good chunk of his childhood in Indonesia or was it Malaysia). As such, he cant turn a blind eye to any of this...I think the US needs a wakeup call on this, Israel isn't even really listening to us.

If they lose US support they are dead, only reason no one wants to fight Israel is cuz of the US.


I don't believe this is true any longer. The reason we keep giving them aid has much more to do with keeping our interests aligned with each other than with keeping them in existence.
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1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
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