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Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
My parents came into America from Korea, too. It doesn't mean squat. The thing is, while the law has good INTENTIONS, it is blatant profiling, which I believe far outweighs the "OMG THEY'RE ILLEGAL" aspect. Oh, and I'd like to see you take on some of the jobs that illegal immigrants take. | ||
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Destro
Netherlands1206 Posts
This is my problem with the people protesting the law. They protest the law on these grounds, but they don't explain a better way to solve the problem because there isn't one. All they are doing essentially is protesting the enforcement of already in place laws and protesting any solution that comes about rather than proposing their own solutions. This logic people have astounds me. you are essentially saying: "HEY YOU DONT HAVE AN ANSWER SO SHUT UP. " You do not need the right solution to know what the wrong solution is. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On May 13 2010 05:07 Zeke50100 wrote: My parents came into America from Korea, too. It doesn't mean squat. The thing is, while the law has good INTENTIONS, it is blatant profiling, which I believe far outweighs the "OMG THEY'RE ILLEGAL" aspect. Oh, and I'd like to see you take on some of the jobs that illegal immigrants take. Profiling works. When someone comes up with a more socially palatable alternative that also works, I'll be the first to advocate implementing it. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
I do agree it's a stupid law in that I highly doubt anyone (law enforcement included) is going to take it seriously, but it's nothing close to the Gestapo poicies people are making it out to be... | ||
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Agavond
448 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On May 13 2010 05:41 Sins wrote: I would rather have a federal bill that discriminates against ALL individuals than have a bill that discriminates against someone's visible characteristics. I oppose this bill and feel sad for those that are simply supporting it on xenophobic grounds. Here's the problem with the debate. Those who are opposing the new Arizona law are blindly chalking up support for the law to "racism" or "xenophobia," without considering the real, tangible problems that illegal immigration causes. Just to be clear, I don't mean that you, personally, are guilty of this; the balance of your comment suggests that you are not. However, far too many people are. | ||
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Weedman
United States65 Posts
Then again most liberals are to busy listening to buttrock or smooth jazz to read or watch the news. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On May 13 2010 05:41 Sins wrote: I would rather have a federal bill that discriminates against ALL individuals than have a bill that discriminates against someone's visible characteristics. I oppose this bill and feel sad for those that are simply supporting it on xenophobic grounds. Discrimination is not discrimination if it's universal... Also, there's nothing in the language of the bill about race, skin color, or other visible characteristics. The concern most people have is that racist cops are going to start profiling people, but the fact is that these cops are probably already doing so anyway if that's their inclination. Rejecting this bill won't stop them if that's their nature. | ||
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Kyouya
Mexico318 Posts
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Destro
Netherlands1206 Posts
On May 13 2010 05:51 Weedman wrote: Then again most liberals are to busy listening to buttrock or smooth jazz to read [Palin's book] or watch the [fox]news. fixed for ya. | ||
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Weedman
United States65 Posts
To bad I hate Palin and despise Fox news. :D Federal Law: TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part IX > § 1357 § 1357. Powers of immigration officers and employees (a) Powers without warrant Any officer or employee of the Service authorized under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General shall have power without warrant— (1) to interrogate any alien or person believed to be an alien as to his right to be or to remain in the United States; Arizona Law For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation. Oh yeah, Arizona is full of Nazi Extreme Racists. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On May 13 2010 05:41 Sins wrote: I would rather have a federal bill that discriminates against ALL individuals than have a bill that discriminates against someone's visible characteristics. I oppose this bill and feel sad for those that are simply supporting it on xenophobic grounds. It doesn't. It's pure coincidence that illegal immigrants are generally mexican. The fact of the matter is that people profile. That's just the way it is. I don't immediately see a hispanic person and think "He's an illegal immigrant" but you're an absolute fool to think the chances aren't higher in general. Especially if they happen to be low-income families. You can be ethnic blind and color blind and that's well in good but in the end it still means YOU'RE BLIND. I am not xenophobic in the least. However, an illegal immigrant is illegal. If this country didn't have a type of welfare that basically encourages someone not to work it would be unlikely that the whole immigration thing would be an issue. | ||
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Undisputed-
United States379 Posts
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Weedman
United States65 Posts
On May 13 2010 06:10 Undisputed- wrote: What we need to do is pull our troops stationed in useless places like germany or better yet just pull out of the middle east and put them on the mexican border. Deport any illegals that break the law and get the ones already living here and working to apply for citizenship. I like the Arizona law but ultimately I don't think it will do much until the border is secured. I think mostly it will just push more illegal immigrants to California and Texas. As a Californian this is the main reason I dislike the bill, however the bill itself is fine. If anything its just the fact the BILL is in the news and media etc that will cause this. It may make some sort of impact in AZ but I think the Impact will be much bigger on surrounding states in a negative way. Oh wow that is so racist right? I live in Norcal and the Home Depot next door to me is a day labor site. I worked in construction and watched every day as contractors trucked in these guys to help with track housing, and watched the wages fall. With the housing bubble burst we now have thousands of homeless illegal aliens chillin at these sites daily hoping to take jobs from real qualified people. So fuckem, round them up and ship them back. Our streets aren't paved with gold, and our citizens deserve these jobs first and foremost. It's a huge lie to say Americans won't do these jobs, the majority of the aliens are not picking crops, they are taking construction jobs. | ||
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Undisputed-
United States379 Posts
On May 13 2010 06:13 Weedman wrote: I think mostly it will just push more immigrants to California and Texas. As a Californian this is the main reason I dislike the bill, however the bill itself is fine. If anything its just the fact the BILL is in the news and media etc that will cause this. It may make some sort of impact in AZ but I think the Impact will be much bigger on surrounding states in a negative way. The law should be passes nationally. But first like I said we need to secure the border. We should also make it easier for productive people to immigrate here legally. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On May 13 2010 06:17 Undisputed- wrote: The law should be passes nationally. But first like I said we need to secure the border. We should also make it easier for productive people to immigrate here legally. My wife is currently going through the immigration process to become a permanent resident. Both the amount of paper work that has to be completed and the amount of fees that need to be paid are ridiculous and insulting. She has a Ph.D. in applied math and pays more taxes than most U.S. citizens. Why in the world would this country make it so difficult for people like her to enter through the front door and stay here permanently while simultaneously allowing millions of people to come here illegally and siphon off money from public services? Our immigration policy is totally screwed up and ass-backwards. As I said before, close the back door and open the front door. | ||
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Agavond
448 Posts
On May 13 2010 05:50 xDaunt wrote: Here's the problem with the debate. Those who are opposing the new Arizona law are blindly chalking up support for the law to "racism" or "xenophobia," without considering the real, tangible problems that illegal immigration causes. Just to be clear, I don't mean that you, personally, are guilty of this; the balance of your comment suggests that you are not. However, far too many people are. Please elaborate on the problems that "illegal" immigrates cause? We as a whole benefit far greater than they exploit the system. How is it that our first class country is able to prevail w/ our agricultural products being so cheap? Illegal immigrants are far more deserving even at the cost of our healthcare system, in order for them to seek the medical attention they need to continue working in the fields. As for them "not paying taxes" how do they manage to manipulate the system? Illegal immigrants do pay their taxes, what do you think ITIN is for? And if they are NOT paying it then they only LOSE the benefits that this country supplies them with. Don't blindly confuse me to be part of your constituent; I am not your buddy. | ||
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Weedman
United States65 Posts
My wife is currently going through the immigration process to become a permanent resident. Both the amount of paper work that has to be completed and the amount of fees that need to be paid are ridiculous and insulting. She has a Ph.D. in applied math and pays more taxes than most U.S. citizens. Why in the world would this country make it so difficult for people like her to enter through the front door and stay here permanently while simultaneously allowing millions of people to come here illegally and siphon off money from public services? Our immigration policy is totally screwed up and ass-backwards. As I said before, close the back door and open the front door. I agree with you, it is a huge mess. The lack of enforcement for those who illegally cross and the soft willed politicians who gain from it are what have made it hard for those who want to come here the right way. So now we have millions of people here that some feel they need to cater too because we are all human! WTF! If you want to come to the US, just hop the border! Its cheaper, easier, and if you get sent back on a bus just try again! The worst thing is that most of the crossing by the coyotes and immigrants are just a false flag op to distract the BP and bring in the drugs while all the BP are chasing people around in circles. I've lived on the border and seen it with my own eyes. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12257 Posts
On May 13 2010 06:32 Sins wrote: Please elaborate on the problems that "illegal" immigrates cause? We as a whole benefit far greater than they exploit the system. How is it that our first class country is able to prevail w/ our agricultural products being so cheap? Illegal immigrants are far more deserving even at the cost of our healthcare system, in order for them to seek the medical attention they need to continue working in the fields. As for them "not paying taxes" how do they manage to manipulate the system? Illegal immigrants do pay their taxes, what do you think ITIN is for? And if they are NOT paying it then they only LOSE the benefits that this country supplies them with. Don't blindly confuse me to be part of your constituent; I am not your buddy. I'm not sure I understand. So it's okay for agriculture to be cheap because illegal laborers are paid illegal below-minimum wages and they can't complain about it because of the risk of deportation? That sounds much more like modern slavery to me... | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On May 13 2010 06:32 Sins wrote: Please elaborate on the problems that "illegal" immigrates cause? We as a whole benefit far greater than they exploit the system. How is it that our first class country is able to prevail w/ our agricultural products being so cheap? Illegal immigrants are far more deserving even at the cost of our healthcare system, in order for them to seek the medical attention they need to continue working in the fields. As for them "not paying taxes" how do they manage to manipulate the system? Illegal immigrants do pay their taxes, what do you think ITIN is for? And if they are NOT paying it then they only LOSE the benefits that this country supplies them with. Don't blindly confuse me to be part of your constituent; I am not your buddy. Wow, no good deed goes unpunished. I went out of my way to be friendly and explicitly give you the benefit of the doubt, and you respond with this outright incivility? Anyway, as you will.... Go educate yourself and read up on the earlier parts of the thread. The undeniable truth is that illegal immigrants do not contribute more to the system than they take out of it. There are multiple articles cited above demonstrating that illegal immigrants are a net drain on the country. More importantly, they are a very severe net drain upon states and communities where there are large communities of illegal immigrants. Yes, some illegal immigrants pay taxes. However, they do not even come close to, as a group, paying enough taxes to cover all of the social benefits that they use. THAT is why the Arizona bill was passed and THAT is why most Americans support it and would like to see similar measures enacted in their states or at a national level. | ||
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