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making it illegal to be an illegal immigrant how crazy.
the law says when a cop stops you in a traffic stop or some other lawlful contact, ie you just killed someone. They can ask you for your drivers license.. which is something they cant do now.
What a crazy concept, asking someone for their drivers license? when you get a speeding ticket do you feel outraged when the cop asks you? Do you feel as if he's profiling you? How do you think americans feel when we get pulled over and a ticket when mexicans who arent even citizens get pulled over and just WAVED ON. Cops who pull over speeding mexicans without a drivers license, w/o proof of insurance, w/o a title in a stolen vehicle, they cant do anything to them.
WHY? you ask? B/c they arent citizens are not subject to those laws. All they can do is detain them for up to 48hrs and call ICE. If they arent huge felons with rap sheets the size of montana ICE tells them they are too busy and they are released. They have done this thousands of times so that they dont even bother calling ICE anymore, whats the point? ICE doesnt do their job...
Its fairly upsetting when people who dont really understand the law make comments and huge accusations. IE the president with his ridculous comment about a 5th generation hispanic and his family going into an icecream shop and being jacked up by police asking for papers. There's also that idiot lawyer who said on a news interview that : "I went to mexico once, on a beach, but i didnt bring my passport with me to the beach or the ocean, what if they go into the ocean where i am and ask mefor my papers? This is just outragous"
Its completely insane! Your DRIVERS LISENSCE is proof of citizenship, all their doing is asking for your DL when you're caught breaking the law.
Why is that such a crazy concept? Someone please explain to me the outrageousness of this?
ILLEGAL IMMAGRANTS BEING ILLEGAL?? HOLY FREAKIN SHIT!!?!?!!
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On May 13 2010 04:07 LumberJack wrote:
making it illegal to be an illegal immigrant how crazy.
the law says when a cop stops you in a traffic stop or some other lawlful contact, ie you just killed someone. They can ask you for your drivers license.. which is something they cant do now.
What a crazy concept, asking someone for their drivers license? when you get a speeding ticket do you feel outraged when the cop asks you? Do you feel as if he's profiling you? How do you think americans feel when we get pulled over and a ticket when mexicans who arent even citizens get pulled over and just WAVED ON. Cops who pull over speeding mexicans without a drivers license, w/o proof of insurance, w/o a title in a stolen vehicle, they cant do anything to them.
WHY? you ask? B/c they arent citizens are not subject to those laws. All they can do is detain them for up to 48hrs and call ICE. If they arent huge felons with rap sheets the size of montana ICE tells them they are too busy and they are released. They have done this thousands of times so that they dont even bother calling ICE anymore, whats the point? ICE doesnt do their job...
Its fairly upsetting when people who dont really understand the law make comments and huge accusations. IE the president with his ridculous comment about a 5th generation hispanic and his family going into an icecream shop and being jacked up by police asking for papers. There's also that idiot lawyer who said on a news interview that : "I went to mexico once, on a beach, but i didnt bring my passport with me to the beach or the ocean, what if they go into the ocean where i am and ask mefor my papers? This is just outragous"
Its completely insane! Your DRIVERS LISENSCE is proof of citizenship, all their doing is asking for your DL when you're caught breaking the law.
Why is that such a crazy concept? Someone please explain to me the outrageousness of this?
ILLEGAL IMMAGRANTS BEING ILLEGAL?? HOLY FREAKIN SHIT!!?!?!!
To make it clear, you can show any federal or state issued identification with and it will pass muster. So if you don't have the license but you do have your passport, guess what? You're home free!
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United States22883 Posts
On May 13 2010 04:01 Drowsy wrote:
Nobody is going to do legitimate research on this because they'll be metaphorically crucified if they find the "wrong" conclusion. It has been done...
The produce raised on Californian farms doesn't have to stay in California.
And where is the company located that produces and sells the produce? Hint: It's mentioned twice in your post!
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On May 13 2010 03:57 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 03:48 hacpee wrote:On May 13 2010 03:46 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 03:40 hacpee wrote:On May 13 2010 03:37 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 03:10 xDaunt wrote:On May 13 2010 02:50 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 01:37 xDaunt wrote:
The unfortunate reality is that illegal immigrants take far more out of the system than they contribute to it. Period. This isn't about racism. It's about fiscal reality.
The unfortunately reality is that you can't back up this statement because it's simply not true. There's a short term loss in things like education, but there's no indication that Hispanic immigrants worsen societal ills (the opposite has largely found, actually) and they've become a necessary part of the economy. The notion that jobs are being taken away is flatly untrue because the work being done is otherwise unfilled 3D jobs, and the economies of Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California are all better off for having large immigrant populations, and for having irregular immigrants. Do you guys go grocery shopping at all? Do you know how much inflation would be caused if all illegal immigrants were found and deported? I'm not sure if you're serious. Think for one moment: Large illegal immigrant + very few illegal immigrants pay taxes (for obvious reasons) + illegal immigrants use social services = FISCAL PROBLEM. Fortunately, you don't need to rely upon your logic to figure that one out. It has been well documented and studied. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.htmlhttp://www.heritage.org/Research/Testimony/The-Fiscal-Cost-of-Low-Skill-Immigrants-to-State-and-Local-TaxpayersIf you had any familiarity with the business side of medicine and hospitals, you'd know that their number 1 concern, particularly in areas with large populations of illegal immigrants, is getting compensated for treating illegal immigrants! Lol@Heritage as a source. We already know Reagan would send all immigrants to the moon. Do you even know who you're citing? CIS is a conservative anti-immigration lobbyist group and even from their own "study": With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.
...
Social Security and Medicare. Although we find that the net effect of illegal households is negative at the federal level, the same is not true for Social Security and Medicare. We estimate that illegal households create a combined net benefit for these two programs in excess of $7 billion a year, accounting for about 4 percent of the total annual surplus in these two programs. The bottom line is that illegal immigrant labor does not lower prices enough to warrant their net drain upon the economy. Besides, Americans can go do those jobs that illegals do, especially those that are desperate for work right now. Both of these sentences are untrue. America has transitioned to a service economy, even a short downturn isn't going to cause people to go back to picking lettuce and strawberries. The pool of legal low-skilled workers is tiny at this point. Why don't you read this and get back to me. http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/ImmigrationCSR26.pdf And how about the food stamps and others social services that their children use? All provided free by the state.Again, we have 10% unemployment. One in eight Americans are on food stamps. Take the food stamps away and they will in fact work the jobs the illegals worked before. Then we can kick out the illegals and have a lower unemployment rate. So in light of a temporary downturn, you're looking to reverse progress in the American economy. I can see why you're not an economist or a social scientists. Most economists support getting rid of the minimum wage. You're good at blanket, uneducated statements. The 2005 report of AEA members (American Economic Association) had something like 45% who thought it should be eliminated. That option had the most supporters of any, but it's clearly not "most" and that encompasses all economists. Labor economists tend to side in favor of a minimum wage.
Yes if the minimum wage was so good, why don't we raise it so everyone can be rich? Make the minimum wage 30 dollars then everyone will be happy! Fact is an arbitrary minimum wage will prevent employers from hiring more workers for cheaper. More expensive workers means less productivity per dollar which means higher prices.
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United States22883 Posts
On May 13 2010 04:02 Krikkitone wrote:If Americans aren't willing to pick strawberries and lettuce, then we shouldn't be producing strawberries and lettuce in America. Or rather, if it is not possible to make a profit off of strawberries and lettuce with the high wages that would be needed to get Americans to pick them, then you shouldn't grow strawberries+lettuce in America. Now if you think we should bring more people into America who are willing to pick that Strawberries+lettuce, then you should increase the number of legal immigrants (make the process easier and increase the numbers allowed) OR make it easier for legal immigrants and legal residents of orther countries to get American citizenship to become Americans. (assuming that minimum wage/workplace conditions rules are not the problem) However, illegal immigrants only economically survive by fraud (false papers for their employer) and/or black market economy (under the table payment)
The misled economic idealism of Ron Paul does not mean anything in the real world. Lettuce will still be produced, and they're not going to be selling it for $10/head. California and Texas aren't going to do anything similar, so the businesses and immigrants are just going to leave. Arizona's economy will get fucked by this.
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Enough with the Nazi Germany comparisons. It's not enough to just say that since one asked for papers it is comprable to the other since there are more differences than there are similarities. This standard simply isn't sufficient.
For starters there exist clear restirctions on the Arizona law. There won't be any SS stopping by your house in the middle of the night warrantlessly taking you away. The intent behind the law is also clearly different. Even Republicans would acknowledge that immigration in general is good that and illegal immigrants do some good for the country. It is absurd to insinuate that this law seeks to harm these people. Also there is much more transparency. People have the right to question the officer in court on the basis for their decisions. On top of that this law isn't even backed by the government.
Ofc the most obvious clear distinction is reliant upon our 20/20 hindsight of what happened in Nazi Germany. We know where that went. It is offensive to basic human senses to compare one of the largest tragedies in human history to this law when none of the same imputs exist other than a federal law that requires having papers that has been around for generations. Before anyone compares this to Nazi germany and says it will create a slipperly slope YOU hold the burden of showing what imputs in any way would get close to creating any situation like that.
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@ Lumberjack
Because people seem to be under the misguided notion that people from Mexico should be allowed to come in and out of this country whenever they want without any accountability whatsoever just because we happen to share a border. That and the ridiculous idea that this nation would somehow crumble or implode without them... -_-
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United States22883 Posts
On May 13 2010 04:11 hacpee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 03:57 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 03:48 hacpee wrote:On May 13 2010 03:46 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 03:40 hacpee wrote:On May 13 2010 03:37 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 03:10 xDaunt wrote:On May 13 2010 02:50 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 01:37 xDaunt wrote:
The unfortunate reality is that illegal immigrants take far more out of the system than they contribute to it. Period. This isn't about racism. It's about fiscal reality.
The unfortunately reality is that you can't back up this statement because it's simply not true. There's a short term loss in things like education, but there's no indication that Hispanic immigrants worsen societal ills (the opposite has largely found, actually) and they've become a necessary part of the economy. The notion that jobs are being taken away is flatly untrue because the work being done is otherwise unfilled 3D jobs, and the economies of Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California are all better off for having large immigrant populations, and for having irregular immigrants. Do you guys go grocery shopping at all? Do you know how much inflation would be caused if all illegal immigrants were found and deported? I'm not sure if you're serious. Think for one moment: Large illegal immigrant + very few illegal immigrants pay taxes (for obvious reasons) + illegal immigrants use social services = FISCAL PROBLEM. Fortunately, you don't need to rely upon your logic to figure that one out. It has been well documented and studied. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.htmlhttp://www.heritage.org/Research/Testimony/The-Fiscal-Cost-of-Low-Skill-Immigrants-to-State-and-Local-TaxpayersIf you had any familiarity with the business side of medicine and hospitals, you'd know that their number 1 concern, particularly in areas with large populations of illegal immigrants, is getting compensated for treating illegal immigrants! Lol@Heritage as a source. We already know Reagan would send all immigrants to the moon. Do you even know who you're citing? CIS is a conservative anti-immigration lobbyist group and even from their own "study": With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.
...
Social Security and Medicare. Although we find that the net effect of illegal households is negative at the federal level, the same is not true for Social Security and Medicare. We estimate that illegal households create a combined net benefit for these two programs in excess of $7 billion a year, accounting for about 4 percent of the total annual surplus in these two programs. The bottom line is that illegal immigrant labor does not lower prices enough to warrant their net drain upon the economy. Besides, Americans can go do those jobs that illegals do, especially those that are desperate for work right now. Both of these sentences are untrue. America has transitioned to a service economy, even a short downturn isn't going to cause people to go back to picking lettuce and strawberries. The pool of legal low-skilled workers is tiny at this point. Why don't you read this and get back to me. http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/ImmigrationCSR26.pdf And how about the food stamps and others social services that their children use? All provided free by the state.Again, we have 10% unemployment. One in eight Americans are on food stamps. Take the food stamps away and they will in fact work the jobs the illegals worked before. Then we can kick out the illegals and have a lower unemployment rate. So in light of a temporary downturn, you're looking to reverse progress in the American economy. I can see why you're not an economist or a social scientists. Most economists support getting rid of the minimum wage. You're good at blanket, uneducated statements. The 2005 report of AEA members (American Economic Association) had something like 45% who thought it should be eliminated. That option had the most supporters of any, but it's clearly not "most" and that encompasses all economists. Labor economists tend to side in favor of a minimum wage. Yes if the minimum wage was so good, why don't we raise it so everyone can be rich? Make the minimum wage 30 dollars then everyone will be happy! Fact is an arbitrary minimum wage will prevent employers from hiring more workers for cheaper. More expensive workers means less productivity per dollar which means higher prices. You've just deflected your completely wrong post, and I don't think you understand the mechanics behind minimum wage. I don't, entirely, but I don't pretend to know shit I'm unfamiliar with.
That makes one of us in this conversation.
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It seems that "fortress Europe" isn't that bad after all.
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On May 13 2010 04:14 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 04:11 hacpee wrote:On May 13 2010 03:57 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 03:48 hacpee wrote:On May 13 2010 03:46 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 03:40 hacpee wrote:On May 13 2010 03:37 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 03:10 xDaunt wrote:On May 13 2010 02:50 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 01:37 xDaunt wrote:
The unfortunate reality is that illegal immigrants take far more out of the system than they contribute to it. Period. This isn't about racism. It's about fiscal reality.
The unfortunately reality is that you can't back up this statement because it's simply not true. There's a short term loss in things like education, but there's no indication that Hispanic immigrants worsen societal ills (the opposite has largely found, actually) and they've become a necessary part of the economy. The notion that jobs are being taken away is flatly untrue because the work being done is otherwise unfilled 3D jobs, and the economies of Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California are all better off for having large immigrant populations, and for having irregular immigrants. Do you guys go grocery shopping at all? Do you know how much inflation would be caused if all illegal immigrants were found and deported? I'm not sure if you're serious. Think for one moment: Large illegal immigrant + very few illegal immigrants pay taxes (for obvious reasons) + illegal immigrants use social services = FISCAL PROBLEM. Fortunately, you don't need to rely upon your logic to figure that one out. It has been well documented and studied. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.htmlhttp://www.heritage.org/Research/Testimony/The-Fiscal-Cost-of-Low-Skill-Immigrants-to-State-and-Local-TaxpayersIf you had any familiarity with the business side of medicine and hospitals, you'd know that their number 1 concern, particularly in areas with large populations of illegal immigrants, is getting compensated for treating illegal immigrants! Lol@Heritage as a source. We already know Reagan would send all immigrants to the moon. Do you even know who you're citing? CIS is a conservative anti-immigration lobbyist group and even from their own "study": With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.
...
Social Security and Medicare. Although we find that the net effect of illegal households is negative at the federal level, the same is not true for Social Security and Medicare. We estimate that illegal households create a combined net benefit for these two programs in excess of $7 billion a year, accounting for about 4 percent of the total annual surplus in these two programs. The bottom line is that illegal immigrant labor does not lower prices enough to warrant their net drain upon the economy. Besides, Americans can go do those jobs that illegals do, especially those that are desperate for work right now. Both of these sentences are untrue. America has transitioned to a service economy, even a short downturn isn't going to cause people to go back to picking lettuce and strawberries. The pool of legal low-skilled workers is tiny at this point. Why don't you read this and get back to me. http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/ImmigrationCSR26.pdf And how about the food stamps and others social services that their children use? All provided free by the state.Again, we have 10% unemployment. One in eight Americans are on food stamps. Take the food stamps away and they will in fact work the jobs the illegals worked before. Then we can kick out the illegals and have a lower unemployment rate. So in light of a temporary downturn, you're looking to reverse progress in the American economy. I can see why you're not an economist or a social scientists. Most economists support getting rid of the minimum wage. You're good at blanket, uneducated statements. The 2005 report of AEA members (American Economic Association) had something like 45% who thought it should be eliminated. That option had the most supporters of any, but it's clearly not "most" and that encompasses all economists. Labor economists tend to side in favor of a minimum wage. Yes if the minimum wage was so good, why don't we raise it so everyone can be rich? Make the minimum wage 30 dollars then everyone will be happy! Fact is an arbitrary minimum wage will prevent employers from hiring more workers for cheaper. More expensive workers means less productivity per dollar which means higher prices. You've just deflected your completely wrong post, and I don't think you understand the mechanics behind minimum wage. I don't, entirely, but I don't pretend to know shit I'm unfamiliar with. That makes one of us in this conversation.
Minimum wage is simple. Any intro to economics class covers it. If you're unfamiliar with it you should probably read up on it before discussing it.
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On May 13 2010 04:13 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 04:02 Krikkitone wrote:On May 13 2010 03:37 Jibba wrote:Both of these sentences are untrue. America has transitioned to a service economy, even a short downturn isn't going to cause people to go back to picking lettuce and strawberries. The pool of legal low-skilled workers is tiny at this point. Why don't you read this and get back to me. http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/ImmigrationCSR26.pdf If Americans aren't willing to pick strawberries and lettuce, then we shouldn't be producing strawberries and lettuce in America. Or rather, if it is not possible to make a profit off of strawberries and lettuce with the high wages that would be needed to get Americans to pick them, then you shouldn't grow strawberries+lettuce in America. Now if you think we should bring more people into America who are willing to pick that Strawberries+lettuce, then you should increase the number of legal immigrants (make the process easier and increase the numbers allowed) OR make it easier for legal immigrants and legal residents of orther countries to get American citizenship to become Americans. (assuming that minimum wage/workplace conditions rules are not the problem) However, illegal immigrants only economically survive by fraud (false papers for their employer) and/or black market economy (under the table payment) The misled economic idealism of Ron Paul does not mean anything in the real world. Lettuce will still be produced, and they're not going to be selling it for $10/head. California and Texas aren't going to do anything similar, so the businesses and immigrants are just going to leave. Arizona's economy will get fucked by this.
As I said, if people are hungry they will work for any wage. We have 1/8th of our population on food stamps. Take away their food stamps and guess what? They will work for low wages to be able to buy food! Thus, we took a group of unproductive people living on food stamps and welfare and they have suddenly become productive people doing things! Amazing. All without illegals in the mix.
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On May 13 2010 04:13 Jibba wrote:
Lettuce will still be produced, and they're not going to be selling it for $10/head.
Well I was assuming that worst case scenario for the business(ie no longer profitable because people won't buy lettuce at that price)
The fact is if Americans won't buy it for the cost it would take to get Americans to pick it, then the lettuce shouldn't be made in America.
Now if we want cheap lettuce, then revise the immigration laws to allow 20 million immigrants per year, with a quick 2 hour check. Instead of the few that we allow now.
(or annex Mexico, make them all American citizens)
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On May 13 2010 04:00 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 03:56 xDaunt wrote:
More importantly, the conclusion from CFR is that illegal immigration only has a minor negative effect upon the greater US economy, which I agree with. What CFR does not mention, but what is patently obvious, is that most of the economic burdens of illegal immigration fall upon the states with the largest populations of illegal immigrants. These, uncoincidentally, are the border states, such as Texas, California, and Arizona. In other words, the people of those states are bearing the brunt of the fiscal burden, which is was the whole point that I was making. Wait, so if someone is working at a farm in California, how is their work going to benefit the economies of other states and not California? Jesus christ, I can see why social science is such a failure at TL.
The very obvious point that you are missing (or more likely ignoring) is that the host states bear huge fiscal burdens from illegal immigrant population because of the fact that illegal immigrants utilize far more public services (education, medical, and incarceration [yes, states actually pay money to house illegal immigrants in jails] services) than what they pay back to the states in tax revenues. This creates budget shortfalls, to which states either respond by raising taxes on productive citizens or cutting benefits to productive citizens.
As I said, no amount of contribution to the private economy by illegal immigrants through their labor offsets these fiscal burdens that the states face. The mere fact that illegal immigration is a net drain on the entire US economy is unequivocal proof of that. A little bit of intellectual honesty in admitting that fact would be greatly appreciated.
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I want illegal immigrants to come here anytime they want to work all the jobs that Americans won't do. Thats right I said it. I love em, I love em all.
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On May 13 2010 04:33 ktp wrote:
I want illegal immigrants to come here anytime they want to work all the jobs that Americans won't do. Thats right I said it. I love em, I love em all.
What are all these supposed jobs that Americans and legal immigrants won't do?
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I cant answer your question because I don't know what I am talking about
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summary of american history to me
natives inhabit new land from bearing straight
life is good
english show up hey guys gtfo
colonies tell english to gtfo
become americans
mexicans tell americans to gtfo
americans tell mexicans to gtfo of mexico(wat?)
the south (dudes who own most of the land taken from mexico) tells north to gtfo of their shit
irish show up, get called a bunch of freeloading immigrants
italians show up, get called a bunch of freeloading immigrants
eastern europeans show up, get called a bunch of freeloading immigrants
now the irish, italian, euros, english, ex-slaves stolen from elsewhere make up most of the country... call the mexicans in the land inhabited by mexicans for a couple thousand years a bunch of freeloading immigrants.
the natives just roll their eyes.
canada lols at situation and turns the NHL playoffs back on.
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On May 12 2010 23:36 statix wrote:It's the thought of having to do something that nobody else does just because I look mexican that angers me. It just feels so degrading. I guess you'd have to have something similar done to you to understand how it feels.
It really just makes you feel like lesser citizen. How is it not racism if it discriminates against millions of hispanics just because they look mexican?
To me it is just profiling though...something that law enforcers regularly do. But your concern is understandable...I don't want racism in the US either. But how else to solve the problem? If there is a better solution I would honestly like to know it.
Anything that doesn't treat American citizens differently just because of their race, color, or national origin. Does that sound too demanding?
Heres the thing though...by the law there is nobody being treated differently. They are asking for your ID/papers. They do that to everybody.
I can't think of any other logical way to do it. In reality they should be raiding places that house and hire illegals and deporting on the spot...asking for your ID on a traffic stop is the least intrusive thing they can possibly do.
This is my problem with the people protesting the law. They protest the law on these grounds, but they don't explain a better way to solve the problem because there isn't one. All they are doing essentially is protesting the enforcement of already in place laws and protesting any solution that comes about rather than proposing their own solutions.
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On May 13 2010 04:18 hacpee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 04:14 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 04:11 hacpee wrote:On May 13 2010 03:57 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 03:48 hacpee wrote:On May 13 2010 03:46 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 03:40 hacpee wrote:On May 13 2010 03:37 Jibba wrote:On May 13 2010 03:10 xDaunt wrote:On May 13 2010 02:50 Jibba wrote:
[quote]
The unfortunately reality is that you can't back up this statement because it's simply not true. There's a short term loss in things like education, but there's no indication that Hispanic immigrants worsen societal ills (the opposite has largely found, actually) and they've become a necessary part of the economy. The notion that jobs are being taken away is flatly untrue because the work being done is otherwise unfilled 3D jobs, and the economies of Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California are all better off for having large immigrant populations, and for having irregular immigrants.
Do you guys go grocery shopping at all? Do you know how much inflation would be caused if all illegal immigrants were found and deported? I'm not sure if you're serious. Think for one moment: Large illegal immigrant + very few illegal immigrants pay taxes (for obvious reasons) + illegal immigrants use social services = FISCAL PROBLEM. Fortunately, you don't need to rely upon your logic to figure that one out. It has been well documented and studied. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.htmlhttp://www.heritage.org/Research/Testimony/The-Fiscal-Cost-of-Low-Skill-Immigrants-to-State-and-Local-TaxpayersIf you had any familiarity with the business side of medicine and hospitals, you'd know that their number 1 concern, particularly in areas with large populations of illegal immigrants, is getting compensated for treating illegal immigrants! Lol@Heritage as a source. We already know Reagan would send all immigrants to the moon. Do you even know who you're citing? CIS is a conservative anti-immigration lobbyist group and even from their own "study": With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.
...
Social Security and Medicare. Although we find that the net effect of illegal households is negative at the federal level, the same is not true for Social Security and Medicare. We estimate that illegal households create a combined net benefit for these two programs in excess of $7 billion a year, accounting for about 4 percent of the total annual surplus in these two programs. The bottom line is that illegal immigrant labor does not lower prices enough to warrant their net drain upon the economy. Besides, Americans can go do those jobs that illegals do, especially those that are desperate for work right now. Both of these sentences are untrue. America has transitioned to a service economy, even a short downturn isn't going to cause people to go back to picking lettuce and strawberries. The pool of legal low-skilled workers is tiny at this point. Why don't you read this and get back to me. http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/ImmigrationCSR26.pdf And how about the food stamps and others social services that their children use? All provided free by the state.Again, we have 10% unemployment. One in eight Americans are on food stamps. Take the food stamps away and they will in fact work the jobs the illegals worked before. Then we can kick out the illegals and have a lower unemployment rate. So in light of a temporary downturn, you're looking to reverse progress in the American economy. I can see why you're not an economist or a social scientists. Most economists support getting rid of the minimum wage. You're good at blanket, uneducated statements. The 2005 report of AEA members (American Economic Association) had something like 45% who thought it should be eliminated. That option had the most supporters of any, but it's clearly not "most" and that encompasses all economists. Labor economists tend to side in favor of a minimum wage. Yes if the minimum wage was so good, why don't we raise it so everyone can be rich? Make the minimum wage 30 dollars then everyone will be happy! Fact is an arbitrary minimum wage will prevent employers from hiring more workers for cheaper. More expensive workers means less productivity per dollar which means higher prices. You've just deflected your completely wrong post, and I don't think you understand the mechanics behind minimum wage. I don't, entirely, but I don't pretend to know shit I'm unfamiliar with. That makes one of us in this conversation. Minimum wage is simple. Any intro to economics class covers it. If you're unfamiliar with it you should probably read up on it before discussing it.
I'm sure your intro to economics class covered all the intricacies and various economic theories currently being debated among economists regarding minimum wage. The fact that 45% of economics support abolishing it and the other 55 are divided into other schools of thought should indicate that maybe the issue isn't as cut-and-dry as your intro class might have lead you to believe.
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It just keeps chugging along:
The new law, which says that students "should be taught to treat and value each other as individuals and not be taught to resent or hate other races or classes of people," bans classes that might promote an overthrow of the U.S. government; that promote resentment toward a particular race or class; are designed for students of a particular ethnic group, or which advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals.
According to the AP, state schools chief Tom Horne (who is also, incidentally, running for state attorney general) has long advocated the bill, claiming that the district's Mexican-American studies program encourages the belief among Latino pupils that they are oppressed by whites. Horne has also said that the program promotes "ethnic chauvinism."
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/05/brewer-signs-bill-restricting-ethnic-studies-programs-in-az-schools.php?ref=fpblg
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EPT
