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On April 06 2010 04:23 reit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 04:05 KwarK wrote:On April 06 2010 04:01 KissBlade wrote:On April 06 2010 03:56 Southlight wrote:On April 06 2010 03:47 Mystlord wrote:
Immoral soldiers are a problem. There would be a vast difference if the soldiers merely said "Permission to engage" vs "Come on let me shoot at those bastards hahahaha!". I agree with the soldier's decision to shoot. I don't agree with any sort of perverse sadism that they might have had in doing it (Rather exaggerated, but it gets my point across :/). Our point is that soldiers are soldiers, in a rather hostile environment in which they are under threat every second, from enemies they they cannot distinguish. How many of their close friends have been slain during their time there? It's not difficult to imagine they've developed quite an intensive enmity of the enemy. There's no perverse sadism here, IMO; it's soldiers being soldiers, perhaps being overly hyped-up or vengeful, and perhaps gleeful that they've finally found enemies standing out in the open, as opposed to being hidden. That sort of thing. It's ridiculous trying to impose a "civilized code of morals/ethics" upon their behavior without knowing everything they've gone through. Southlight, you know that's exactly the point of view the people you call "terrorists" feel right? Except I can probably guarantee they lose a lot more close friends and family members than the American troops do. Obviously. Most insurgents aren't trying to steal our freedom, they're pissed off because we shot their friend or we're in their country. It's a vicious cycle. But that doesn't make our soldiers evil. They're just stupid people who are taken to camps where they're bonded incredibly closely with the men they're working with. Then the whole group is shipped out to Iraq and put in harms way. Once one of their mates is fired upon they will act to stop it. US soldiers aren't fighting for freedom or democracy. They're fighting to keep the man standing next to them safe and to avenge the man that used to be standing next to them. The entire lot is just herded about. So why can't we agree? Who sends those men there? The fucking governing elites .... Who is powerful enough to take them out of provoke change? LARGE GROUPS OF PEOPLE. Would large groups of people openly revolt or fight their government? Nope. Westerners (including myself) have been "pussified" for years and are now nothing else than a mindless work force enslaved by the powerful. Wars like this will keep happening, people will keep dying for no fucking reason, and the average westerner will keep watching MTV and not give 2 fucks about those innocent families getting destroyed. At least the muslims have the balls to blow themselves up for what they believe in. Maybe they deserve a new world, but we clearly don't.
Wow after you said that, im actually pretty heated now..
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On April 06 2010 04:38 FortuneSyn wrote:
Wow what a piece of shit excuse for protocol to allow engagement. Fucking americans. First they engage on targets that you cannot identify whether they are armed with a rpg or a FUCKING CAMERA. Then they engage a fucking van that comes over to pick a wounded person up.
IF YOU SEE YOUR COUNTRYMEN DIEING ON THE STREET, WOULD YOU HELP HIM? DOES THAT CATEGORIZE YOU AS A FUCKING TERRORIST?
What a pathetic excuse for a country. All americans should be ashamed of this shit.
Word. There is just no excuse for this :/
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On April 06 2010 04:38 FortuneSyn wrote:
Wow what a piece of shit excuse for protocol to allow engagement. Fucking americans. First they engage on targets that you cannot identify whether they are armed with a rpg or a FUCKING CAMERA. Then they engage a fucking van that comes over to pick a wounded person up.
IF YOU SEE YOUR COUNTRYMEN DIEING ON THE STREET, WOULD YOU HELP HIM? DOES THAT CATEGORIZE YOU AS A FUCKING TERRORIST?
What a pathetic excuse for a country. All americans should be ashamed of this shit.
ohmygod. -_- are you serious?
first of all .
"All americans should be ashamed of this shit"
you're judging a large group of people because of the action of a few?
Like saying all germans are nazi's.
secondly, ITS A WAR. honestly if i were in uniform standing guard, and there was a person with a object THAT LOOKS LIKE A GUN i'd be scared shitless. They did what was expected of them. Of course it lead to unexpected deaths but if they hadnt and it had been enemies they would have been the ones who had died
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On April 06 2010 04:30 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 04:16 Mystlord wrote:
Whenever I hear recounts of WWII, I certainly don't remember seeing/hearing the reaction that I heard from these soldiers. haha, you must have only seen the for-tv, romanticized stories of WWII. While very interesting, vets from then certainly weren't PC or remorseful at all. Shit, I'd say they were even worse than our modern soldiers. The only difference is that there are a fuckload more ways to see what the guys are up to now—thus, more exposure.
Once again, I'm not looking for remorse. I'm not looking for regret. I'm looking for sadism and enjoyment in seeing people fall down because they got peppered by bullets from their machine gun. I don't recall reading anything like that.
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I have to say that the posting quality is rather low here that it made me skip from page 4 to page 10.
Well one thing I really want to know is wouldn't insurgents take cover at the sight of an American chopper? It seems silly to casually walk in the streets and not panic and run for cover at a sight of a superior weapon when it is obvious that you will be shot since you have insurgent weapons.
Another thing that bugged me a bit was that it was clear that it was hard to tell if the guys were carrying guns or cameras, but being that specific about the type of weapon was a bit odd.
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On April 06 2010 04:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 04:32 reit wrote:On April 06 2010 04:12 KwarK wrote:On April 06 2010 04:09 reit wrote:On April 06 2010 03:52 KwarK wrote:On April 06 2010 03:43 reit wrote:
If I wasn't so curious about life and the future, I'd blow myself up (edit: In a place full of American civilians ofc) to get back for some of the people who's murder you support and encourage. lol I'm dead serious. Would I want to off myself (which I don't at the moment, yes I realize that it makes me somewhat of an hypocrite), I'd probably do it with a lot of explosives and within a US embassy or something similar. Why not? I'd be dead anyway and unless you believe in god (lol), death is death, regardless of when or how it happens. Might as well make it meaningful. Probably wouldn't change shit as I'd be labeled and marginalized as a freedom hating terrorist by the media and the sheep would buy it. But the world won't change through people who are scared of shedding the blood of men. It only sounds radical cause we've been raised in a western system built to make us brain dead work slaves for the corporate fascists (which I was also raised in). The whole system made us wimps who would never die for a cause like the people who actually changed the world in the past did. The elites don't want change, they run everything, this is perfect. The idea is to perpetuate the system and educate people to WANT to perpetuate the system as the end all be all of human society. Leaders, thinkers, revolutionnaries are labeled as terrorists, hell even militias, the most basic defense mechanism against dictatorship/tyranny in America has been successfully labeled in the masses mind (critical 51% mass to ensure "democratic process") as home grown terror suspects. It only sounds radical because you're suggesting killing innocent people over your beliefs. In a democracy, no one is innocent. With freedom comes responsibility. You're the one insisting we're slaves. Slaves bear no responsibility. If you're going to babble insanity at least be consistent. Either we're all powerful individuals in a working democracy and complicit in the war in Iraq and you want to murder us all or we're slaves at the whim of the corporate overmind and blameless over Iraq. You're arguing both.
I'm arguing that:
1) The official position of the elites (what you see in the media, education and policy) is that the USA is a democracy (it's actually a constitutional republic but you already know that).
2) So either we're slaves to the banking system (which we are), then we need to rise up and destroy the system. Or, we're in a democracy like the kool-aid says and I'm a crazy conspiracy theorist. Well then this is a democracy that's been waging wars of aggression, which every citizen is guilty of participating in, as a voting member of the democracy.
What I'm saying is this is totally wrong, either way you look at it.
My personnal belief, is that this is slavery with invisible chains. Once born, your birth certificate turns you into a corporation which can be subjected to laws, regulation and taxes. You have no choice, you are thrown in a system of infinite debt (central banking, you simply can't disagree that it is a system of infinite, growing debt, imposed on countries by private banking entities). We keep you happy about the system with mass entertainment, cheap consumer products. We keep you from thinking with long work hours (and again with mass entertainment). You assume the majority is happy because the majority's opinion is formed by mass media.
In this light, we aren't "completely" responsible for every death in Iraq, but since Americans like to think they're a democracy and think I'm a nutcase for arguing it is slavery, I like to point out that being a true democracy would make them responsible for each civlian kill, even if its across the world in a country they couldnt locate on a map.
What makes me mad is that in both cases, people are at fault. The system is so well tuned now that I can't see some sort of revolution ever taking form. I truly think that the only thing that could (and eventually, with time, will) change the system is a major crisis that would tear down large parts of civilization (world war, cataclysms, famines, massive shortages).
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On April 06 2010 04:41 DreaM)XeRO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 04:38 FortuneSyn wrote:
Wow what a piece of shit excuse for protocol to allow engagement. Fucking americans. First they engage on targets that you cannot identify whether they are armed with a rpg or a FUCKING CAMERA. Then they engage a fucking van that comes over to pick a wounded person up.
IF YOU SEE YOUR COUNTRYMEN DIEING ON THE STREET, WOULD YOU HELP HIM? DOES THAT CATEGORIZE YOU AS A FUCKING TERRORIST?
What a pathetic excuse for a country. All americans should be ashamed of this shit. ohmygod. -_- are you serious? first of all . "All americans should be ashamed of this shit" you're judging a large group of people because of the action of a few? Like saying all germans are nazi's. secondly, ITS A WAR. honestly if i were in uniform standing guard, and there was a person with a object THAT LOOKS LIKE A GUN i'd be scared shitless. They did what was expected of them. Of course it lead to unexpected deaths but if they hadnt and it had been enemies they would have been the ones who had died
yeah stop saying "fucking americans", im tired of you idiots
i didnt do this, nobody i know did this
stop generalizing america because everyone else does, seriously people like you just make this shit worse
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I find highly amuzing the people in this thread who are blaming the two journalists because one of their bodyguards ( ? ) might have one Ak-47 ( ? ). This is especiallly funny because they are the same people who have defended their right to own a weapon ( in the US ) because of potential threats.
I mean yea it is perfectly okay to have a weapon in the United States but in Iraq where kidnapping is common, militias and robbers everywhere people shouldn't be afraid to walk in the street unarmed.
Gotta love the hypocrisy.
Thoss guys could have been contractors, Iraqi police and probably were bodyguards but who cares let's fire first lol. I mean one of the guys might have an Ak-47. That's a clear danger for our Apache and a Bradley.
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Why the hell would they drive towards a fire-fight with a van full of children?! I can somewhat understand the sentiment of wanting to help out, but it's obviously a bad idea if you have children riding in the backseat.
Anyways, the summary of events as I understand them:
1. Soldiers are patrolling an area in an attack helicopter. The fact that they are patrolling this area hints that there might have been some disturbances recently. Really, though, we have no idea about the context these events happened in.
2. Soldiers see a group of armed men who appear to be terrorists, request permission to fire.
3. Soldiers get permission to fire, they fire. They are excited to have killed some (what they thought were) terrorists. They fired again to make sure the terrorists were dead, my guess is they don't want one to suddenly pop up and shoot an rpg at them.
4. An unmarked van pulled up to the group of men, it was unclear what exactly they were doing driving up suddenly to a fire-fight. Soldiers ask permission to fire on the suspicious van.
5. Soldiers get permission to fire on said van, they fire on van.
6. Awkward moment when they find out that some idiot drove into a fire-fight with a van full of children.
and lol @ riet
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On April 06 2010 04:38 FortuneSyn wrote:
Wow what a piece of shit excuse for protocol to allow engagement. Fucking americans. First they engage on targets that you cannot identify whether they are armed with a rpg or a FUCKING CAMERA. Then they engage a fucking van that comes over to pick a wounded person up.
IF YOU SEE YOUR COUNTRYMEN DIEING ON THE STREET, WOULD YOU HELP HIM? DOES THAT CATEGORIZE YOU AS A FUCKING TERRORIST?
What a pathetic excuse for a country. All americans should be ashamed of this shit.
??? Did you watch the video?
On April 06 2010 02:56 BlackJack wrote:I'm pretty sure those are weapons. In case it's not obvious, they are just as readily going to kill 4 guys with AKs as they are 2 guys with AKs and 2 guys with cameras.
Quoting it again.
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On April 06 2010 04:41 DreaM)XeRO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 04:38 FortuneSyn wrote:
Wow what a piece of shit excuse for protocol to allow engagement. Fucking americans. First they engage on targets that you cannot identify whether they are armed with a rpg or a FUCKING CAMERA. Then they engage a fucking van that comes over to pick a wounded person up.
IF YOU SEE YOUR COUNTRYMEN DIEING ON THE STREET, WOULD YOU HELP HIM? DOES THAT CATEGORIZE YOU AS A FUCKING TERRORIST?
What a pathetic excuse for a country. All americans should be ashamed of this shit. ohmygod. -_- are you serious? first of all . "All americans should be ashamed of this shit" you're judging a large group of people because of the action of a few? Like saying all germans are nazi's. secondly, ITS A WAR. honestly if i were in uniform standing guard, and there was a person with a object THAT LOOKS LIKE A GUN i'd be scared shitless. They did what was expected of them. Of course it lead to unexpected deaths but if they hadnt and it had been enemies they would have been the ones who had died
No, it's not a war. It's a slaughter. Also if you can't afford goddamn binoculars or something maybe you shouldn't play god with peoples lives.
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Another thing that bugs me about this thread is the fact that some people are saying that all Americans ought to be ashamed of themselves. It is as if you are saying those 3 crazy soldiers represent the entire US population of 300,000,000. Please people, do not simplify your thinking like that.
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On April 06 2010 04:41 DreaM)XeRO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 04:38 FortuneSyn wrote:
Wow what a piece of shit excuse for protocol to allow engagement. Fucking americans. First they engage on targets that you cannot identify whether they are armed with a rpg or a FUCKING CAMERA. Then they engage a fucking van that comes over to pick a wounded person up.
IF YOU SEE YOUR COUNTRYMEN DIEING ON THE STREET, WOULD YOU HELP HIM? DOES THAT CATEGORIZE YOU AS A FUCKING TERRORIST?
What a pathetic excuse for a country. All americans should be ashamed of this shit. ohmygod. -_- are you serious? first of all . "All americans should be ashamed of this shit" you're judging a large group of people because of the action of a few? Like saying all germans are nazi's. secondly, ITS A WAR. honestly if i were in uniform standing guard, and there was a person with a object THAT LOOKS LIKE A GUN i'd be scared shitless. They did what was expected of them. Of course it lead to unexpected deaths but if they hadnt and it had been enemies they would have been the ones who had died
Cut the fucking "I am me, he is him" argument. You are an american (lets assume you are). that was an american army shooting fucking civilians. they represent your fucking country. they represent you. im gonna call you out, and say you are a piece of shit. You don't get to have your leaders kill innocents, and not a be part of the blame. Just like your fucking army generalizes terrorists and shoots them just in case, I'm gonna generalize americans, and say you did it and support it. If you want that to change, then go do something about it.
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On April 06 2010 04:45 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 04:41 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On April 06 2010 04:38 FortuneSyn wrote:
Wow what a piece of shit excuse for protocol to allow engagement. Fucking americans. First they engage on targets that you cannot identify whether they are armed with a rpg or a FUCKING CAMERA. Then they engage a fucking van that comes over to pick a wounded person up.
IF YOU SEE YOUR COUNTRYMEN DIEING ON THE STREET, WOULD YOU HELP HIM? DOES THAT CATEGORIZE YOU AS A FUCKING TERRORIST?
What a pathetic excuse for a country. All americans should be ashamed of this shit. ohmygod. -_- are you serious? first of all . "All americans should be ashamed of this shit" you're judging a large group of people because of the action of a few? Like saying all germans are nazi's. secondly, ITS A WAR. honestly if i were in uniform standing guard, and there was a person with a object THAT LOOKS LIKE A GUN i'd be scared shitless. They did what was expected of them. Of course it lead to unexpected deaths but if they hadnt and it had been enemies they would have been the ones who had died No, it's not a war. It's a slaughter. Also if you can't afford goddamn binoculars or something maybe you shouldn't play god with peoples lives.
oh really. its a slaugher. so american soldiers are waltzing into iraq with big guns shooting everyone they see?
you're an idiot . This stirs uproar because if affects our moral sense of right and wrong.
If this happens on a daily basis as you seem to be suggesting dont you think we'd do something about it?
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On April 06 2010 02:11 reit wrote:
it began cause americans are idiots and cowards and their military forces is a representative sample of their idiotic population
this wont ever stop, nothing will be done, they drink the kool-aid from mainstream media and wont ever stand up until the knife's under their throat, sheeple are fucking dumb, theyre brainwashed into mass consumption and mass entertainment, not into thinking critically about the world around them. they could give 2 fucks about Iraq, what happens in Tiger Woods' bed is much more important.
cowards
cowards
cowards
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United States22883 Posts
On April 06 2010 04:44 Boblion wrote:
I find highly amuzing the people in this thread who are blaming the two journalists because one of their bodyguards ( ? ) might have one Ak-47 ( ? ). This is especiallly funny because they are the same people who have defended their right to own a weapon ( in the US ) because of potential threats.
I mean yea it is perfectly okay to have a weapon in the United States but in Iraq where kidnapping is common, militias and robbers everywhere people shouldn't be afraid to walk in the street unarmed.
Gotta love the hypocrisy.
This is the most insightful thing anyone's put in this thread.
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On April 06 2010 04:47 Saugardas wrote:
Another thing that bugs me about this thread is the fact that some people are saying that all Americans ought to be ashamed of themselves. It is as if you are saying those 3 crazy soldiers represent the entire US population of 300,000,000. Please people, do not simplify your thinking like that.
Well, if you don't represent it, why don't you do anything about it? What does this say about how the people are thinking / how wierd your country is ?
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Apparently, Cook Island people cannot watch videos nor read threads, too.
Yeah, I'm calling your country out. If you want that to change, then go do something about it.
(Dunno if you actually live there.)
On April 06 2010 04:48 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 04:44 Boblion wrote:
I find highly amuzing the people in this thread who are blaming the two journalists because one of their bodyguards ( ? ) might have one Ak-47 ( ? ). This is especiallly funny because they are the same people who have defended their right to own a weapon ( in the US ) because of potential threats.
I mean yea it is perfectly okay to have a weapon in the United States but in Iraq where kidnapping is common, militias and robbers everywhere people shouldn't be afraid to walk in the street unarmed.
Gotta love the hypocrisy. This is the most insightful thing anyone's put in this thread.
It's not really insightful. The place is called a danger zone for a reason. Friendly fire happens; civilians are not somehow magically exempt from it. Not to mention, nowadays most wars take place in areas where you cannot discern between friend and foe. Either side is going to be extremely trigger-happy to save their own skin - you cannot blame them for being so, and you would not be different yourself, unless you are one of 1% of the world who would actually take a bullet instead of firing at a false positive.
The best thing about the video is that you could probably find hundreds of examples of Iraqi forces firing upon other Iraqi to prevent the same goddamn thing from happening. Only the other way around. Where is the outrage?
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On April 06 2010 04:45 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 04:38 FortuneSyn wrote:
Wow what a piece of shit excuse for protocol to allow engagement. Fucking americans. First they engage on targets that you cannot identify whether they are armed with a rpg or a FUCKING CAMERA. Then they engage a fucking van that comes over to pick a wounded person up.
IF YOU SEE YOUR COUNTRYMEN DIEING ON THE STREET, WOULD YOU HELP HIM? DOES THAT CATEGORIZE YOU AS A FUCKING TERRORIST?
What a pathetic excuse for a country. All americans should be ashamed of this shit. ??? Did you watch the video? Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 02:56 BlackJack wrote:I'm pretty sure those are weapons. In case it's not obvious, they are just as readily going to kill 4 guys with AKs as they are 2 guys with AKs and 2 guys with cameras. Quoting it again.
Where's the excuse for americans shooting at the van that was helping the wounded?
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