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Our World may be a giant hologram

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deth
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia1757 Posts
February 07 2010 05:43 GMT
#1
DRIVING through the countryside south of Hanover, it would be easy to miss the GEO600 experiment. From the outside, it doesn't look much: in the corner of a field stands an assortment of boxy temporary buildings, from which two long trenches emerge, at a right angle to each other, covered with corrugated iron. Underneath the metal sheets, however, lies a detector that stretches for 600 metres.

For the past seven years, this German set-up has been looking for gravitational waves - ripples in space-time thrown off by super-dense astronomical objects such as neutron stars and black holes. GEO600 has not detected any gravitational waves so far, but it might inadvertently have made the most important discovery in physics for half a century.

For many months, the GEO600 team-members had been scratching their heads over inexplicable noise that is plaguing their giant detector. Then, out of the blue, a researcher approached them with an explanation. In fact, he had even predicted the noise before he knew they were detecting it. According to Craig Hogan, a physicist at the Fermilab particle physics lab in Batavia, Illinois, GEO600 has stumbled upon the fundamental limit of space-time - the point where space-time stops behaving like the smooth continuum Einstein described and instead dissolves into "grains", just as a newspaper photograph dissolves into dots as you zoom in. "It looks like GEO600 is being buffeted by the microscopic quantum convulsions of space-time," says Hogan.

If this doesn't blow your socks off, then Hogan, who has just been appointed director of Fermilab's Center for Particle Astrophysics, has an even bigger shock in store: "If the GEO600 result is what I suspect it is, then we are all living in a giant cosmic hologram."

The idea that we live in a hologram probably sounds absurd, but it is a natural extension of our best understanding of black holes, and something with a pretty firm theoretical footing. It has also been surprisingly helpful for physicists wrestling with theories of how the universe works at its most fundamental level.

The holograms you find on credit cards and banknotes are etched on two-dimensional plastic films. When light bounces off them, it recreates the appearance of a 3D image. In the 1990s physicists Leonard Susskind and Nobel prizewinner Gerard 't Hooft suggested that the same principle might apply to the universe as a whole. Our everyday experience might itself be a holographic projection of physical processes that take place on a distant, 2D surface.

The "holographic principle" challenges our sensibilities. It seems hard to believe that you woke up, brushed your teeth and are reading this article because of something happening on the boundary of the universe. No one knows what it would mean for us if we really do live in a hologram, yet theorists have good reasons to believe that many aspects of the holographic principle are true.

Susskind and 't Hooft's remarkable idea was motivated by ground-breaking work on black holes by Jacob Bekenstein of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in Israel and Stephen Hawking at the University of Cambridge. In the mid-1970s, Hawking showed that black holes are in fact not entirely "black" but instead slowly emit radiation, which causes them to evaporate and eventually disappear. This poses a puzzle, because Hawking radiation does not convey any information about the interior of a black hole. When the black hole has gone, all the information about the star that collapsed to form the black hole has vanished, which contradicts the widely affirmed principle that information cannot be destroyed. This is known as the black hole information paradox.

Bekenstein's work provided an important clue in resolving the paradox. He discovered that a black hole's entropy - which is synonymous with its information content - is proportional to the surface area of its event horizon. This is the theoretical surface that cloaks the black hole and marks the point of no return for infalling matter or light. Theorists have since shown that microscopic quantum ripples at the event horizon can encode the information inside the black hole, so there is no mysterious information loss as the black hole evaporates.

Crucially, this provides a deep physical insight: the 3D information about a precursor star can be completely encoded in the 2D horizon of the subsequent black hole - not unlike the 3D image of an object being encoded in a 2D hologram. Susskind and 't Hooft extended the insight to the universe as a whole on the basis that the cosmos has a horizon too - the boundary from beyond which light has not had time to reach us in the 13.7-billion-year lifespan of the universe. What's more, work by several string theorists, most notably Juan Maldacena at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, has confirmed that the idea is on the right track. He showed that the physics inside a hypothetical universe with five dimensions and shaped like a Pringle is the same as the physics taking place on the four-dimensional boundary.

According to Hogan, the holographic principle radically changes our picture of space-time. Theoretical physicists have long believed that quantum effects will cause space-time to convulse wildly on the tiniest scales. At this magnification, the fabric of space-time becomes grainy and is ultimately made of tiny units rather like pixels, but a hundred billion billion times smaller than a proton. This distance is known as the Planck length, a mere 10-35 metres. The Planck length is far beyond the reach of any conceivable experiment, so nobody dared dream that the graininess of space-time might be discernable.

That is, not until Hogan realised that the holographic principle changes everything. If space-time is a grainy hologram, then you can think of the universe as a sphere whose outer surface is papered in Planck length-sized squares, each containing one bit of information. The holographic principle says that the amount of information papering the outside must match the number of bits contained inside the volume of the universe.

Since the volume of the spherical universe is much bigger than its outer surface, how could this be true? Hogan realised that in order to have the same number of bits inside the universe as on the boundary, the world inside must be made up of grains bigger than the Planck length. "Or, to put it another way, a holographic universe is blurry," says Hogan.

This is good news for anyone trying to probe the smallest unit of space-time. "Contrary to all expectations, it brings its microscopic quantum structure within reach of current experiments," says Hogan. So while the Planck length is too small for experiments to detect, the holographic "projection" of that graininess could be much, much larger, at around 10-16 metres. "If you lived inside a hologram, you could tell by measuring the blurring," he says.

When Hogan first realised this, he wondered if any experiment might be able to detect the holographic blurriness of space-time. That's where GEO600 comes in.

Gravitational wave detectors like GEO600 are essentially fantastically sensitive rulers. The idea is that if a gravitational wave passes through GEO600, it will alternately stretch space in one direction and squeeze it in another. To measure this, the GEO600 team fires a single laser through a half-silvered mirror called a beam splitter. This divides the light into two beams, which pass down the instrument's 600-metre perpendicular arms and bounce back again. The returning light beams merge together at the beam splitter and create an interference pattern of light and dark regions where the light waves either cancel out or reinforce each other. Any shift in the position of those regions tells you that the relative lengths of the arms has changed.

"The key thing is that such experiments are sensitive to changes in the length of the rulers that are far smaller than the diameter of a proton," says Hogan.

So would they be able to detect a holographic projection of grainy space-time? Of the five gravitational wave detectors around the world, Hogan realised that the Anglo-German GEO600 experiment ought to be the most sensitive to what he had in mind. He predicted that if the experiment's beam splitter is buffeted by the quantum convulsions of space-time, this will show up in its measurements (Physical Review D, vol 77, p 104031). "This random jitter would cause noise in the laser light signal," says Hogan.

In June he sent his prediction to the GEO600 team. "Incredibly, I discovered that the experiment was picking up unexpected noise," says Hogan. GEO600's principal investigator Karsten Danzmann of the Max Planck Institute for Gravitational Physics in Potsdam, Germany, and also the University of Hanover, admits that the excess noise, with frequencies of between 300 and 1500 hertz, had been bothering the team for a long time. He replied to Hogan and sent him a plot of the noise. "It looked exactly the same as my prediction," says Hogan. "It was as if the beam splitter had an extra sideways jitter."

No one - including Hogan - is yet claiming that GEO600 has found evidence that we live in a holographic universe. It is far too soon to say. "There could still be a mundane source of the noise," Hogan admits.

Gravitational-wave detectors are extremely sensitive, so those who operate them have to work harder than most to rule out noise. They have to take into account passing clouds, distant traffic, seismological rumbles and many, many other sources that could mask a real signal. "The daily business of improving the sensitivity of these experiments always throws up some excess noise," says Danzmann. "We work to identify its cause, get rid of it and tackle the next source of excess noise." At present there are no clear candidate sources for the noise GEO600 is experiencing. "In this respect I would consider the present situation unpleasant, but not really worrying."

For a while, the GEO600 team thought the noise Hogan was interested in was caused by fluctuations in temperature across the beam splitter. However, the team worked out that this could account for only one-third of the noise at most.

Danzmann says several planned upgrades should improve the sensitivity of GEO600 and eliminate some possible experimental sources of excess noise. "If the noise remains where it is now after these measures, then we have to think again," he says.

If GEO600 really has discovered holographic noise from quantum convulsions of space-time, then it presents a double-edged sword for gravitational wave researchers. One on hand, the noise will handicap their attempts to detect gravitational waves. On the other, it could represent an even more fundamental discovery.

Such a situation would not be unprecedented in physics. Giant detectors built to look for a hypothetical form of radioactivity in which protons decay never found such a thing. Instead, they discovered that neutrinos can change from one type into another - arguably more important because it could tell us how the universe came to be filled with matter and not antimatter (New Scientist, 12 April 2008, p 26).

It would be ironic if an instrument built to detect something as vast as astrophysical sources of gravitational waves inadvertently detected the minuscule graininess of space-time. "Speaking as a fundamental physicist, I see discovering holographic noise as far more interesting," says Hogan.

Small price to pay

Despite the fact that if Hogan is right, and holographic noise will spoil GEO600's ability to detect gravitational waves, Danzmann is upbeat. "Even if it limits GEO600's sensitivity in some frequency range, it would be a price we would be happy to pay in return for the first detection of the graininess of space-time." he says. "You bet we would be pleased. It would be one of the most remarkable discoveries in a long time."

However Danzmann is cautious about Hogan's proposal and believes more theoretical work needs to be done. "It's intriguing," he says. "But it's not really a theory yet, more just an idea." Like many others, Danzmann agrees it is too early to make any definitive claims. "Let's wait and see," he says. "We think it's at least a year too early to get excited."

The longer the puzzle remains, however, the stronger the motivation becomes to build a dedicated instrument to probe holographic noise. John Cramer of the University of Washington in Seattle agrees. It was a "lucky accident" that Hogan's predictions could be connected to the GEO600 experiment, he says. "It seems clear that much better experimental investigations could be mounted if they were focused specifically on the measurement and characterisation of holographic noise and related phenomena."

One possibility, according to Hogan, would be to use a device called an atom interferometer. These operate using the same principle as laser-based detectors but use beams made of ultracold atoms rather than laser light. Because atoms can behave as waves with a much smaller wavelength than light, atom interferometers are significantly smaller and therefore cheaper to build than their gravitational-wave-detector counterparts.

So what would it mean it if holographic noise has been found? Cramer likens it to the discovery of unexpected noise by an antenna at Bell Labs in New Jersey in 1964. That noise turned out to be the cosmic microwave background, the afterglow of the big bang fireball. "Not only did it earn Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson a Nobel prize, but it confirmed the big bang and opened up a whole field of cosmology," says Cramer.

Hogan is more specific. "Forget Quantum of Solace, we would have directly observed the quantum of time," says Hogan. "It's the smallest possible interval of time - the Planck length divided by the speed of light."

More importantly, confirming the holographic principle would be a big help to researchers trying to unite quantum mechanics and Einstein's theory of gravity. Today the most popular approach to quantum gravity is string theory, which researchers hope could describe happenings in the universe at the most fundamental level. But it is not the only show in town. "Holographic space-time is used in certain approaches to quantising gravity that have a strong connection to string theory," says Cramer. "Consequently, some quantum gravity theories might be falsified and others reinforced."

Hogan agrees that if the holographic principle is confirmed, it rules out all approaches to quantum gravity that do not incorporate the holographic principle. Conversely, it would be a boost for those that do - including some derived from string theory and something called matrix theory. "Ultimately, we may have our first indication of how space-time emerges out of quantum theory." As serendipitous discoveries go, it's hard to get more ground-breaking than that.


Source

Damn interesting stuff, it would be pretty Neo if it's true :D
shavingcream66
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1219 Posts
February 07 2010 05:50 GMT
#2
tl:dr version? sorry not in the mood for reading : /
Duke
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States1106 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-07 07:09:47
February 07 2010 05:56 GMT
#3
yeah that is hella long and not really skimmable

[edit] there are rules here on TL that you shouldn't post a huge article and then offer nothing for discussion
deth
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia1757 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-07 05:57:30
February 07 2010 05:56 GMT
#4
If you're not going to read, then why +1?

tl;dr we are actually living in a flat 2d universe projected like a hologram from a credit card.

Also, suck it up and read it, it takes 5 minutes.
Saturnize
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States2473 Posts
February 07 2010 06:08 GMT
#5
If you didn't read it then don't make a comment -.-
"Time to put the mustard on the hotdog. -_-"
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
February 07 2010 06:12 GMT
#6
Coooooooooool.

This is some pretty mind-blowing stuff haha

What does this mean though, as in, what could happen because of this new knowledge?
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
February 07 2010 06:14 GMT
#7
I read it but I didn't understand it cuz me 2 stupid

if the world is a hologram of whatever that's crazy, but doesn't really affect our daily lives so I guess it wouldn't be a big deal
RIP Aaliyah
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
February 07 2010 06:15 GMT
#8
why and how the hell would it be a hologram... and what are we then?
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7801 Posts
February 07 2010 06:18 GMT
#9
On February 07 2010 15:08 Saturnize wrote:
If you didn't read it then don't make a comment -.-

Seriously wtf. Read it or ignore it. TLDR is pretty 4channy -_-
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
February 07 2010 06:19 GMT
#10
we might be mindless organisms in comparison to the rest of the universe
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
tinman
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States287 Posts
February 07 2010 06:23 GMT
#11
highly advanced theoretical physics, channeled through a pop science magazine, discussed by laypeople on a Starcraft forum.



"Politics is an extravagance, an extravagance about grievances. And poetry is an extravagance about grief. And grievances are something that can be remedied, and griefs are irremediable."
Sapraedon
Profile Joined January 2010
United Kingdom142 Posts
February 07 2010 06:26 GMT
#12
Idealism/solipsism/non-direct realism.

All empty propositions.
ilovejonn
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Canada2548 Posts
February 07 2010 06:34 GMT
#13
What's it have to do with any of us on TL? Probably nothing.

What's it to them? Maybe figuring out what the whole universe looks like.
Snowflakes in January, Heart warm like February, I wouldn't ordinarily..
jiabung
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States720 Posts
February 07 2010 06:35 GMT
#14
saw this on reddit and here is what some informed person had to say on the matter:

I'm a grad student at Cambridge and I study this stuff. All I want to say to you is don't get your hopes up on any of this. The holographic theory is one of many that attempts to go beyond Einstein's general relativity. And the field of gravitational wave physics and astronomy is at least a decade away from possibly showing any deviations from GR. Also, GEO600 is currently one of the weaker gravitational wave detectors in operation (despite its extreme sensitivity, LIGO and Virgo are both more sensitive). Also, GEO is mainly testing new technologies for later use as upgrades to the other, larger detectors. So the fact that they have some unexplained noise is not surprising. And it's easy to come up with a theory that explains the noise, but much much harder to show that it's true. New Scientist is in the business of taking pop science and mixing it about like this.
saritenite
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Singapore1680 Posts
February 07 2010 06:36 GMT
#15
How does this relate to sex and why do we have sex if we are 2d?
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
February 07 2010 06:37 GMT
#16
Good read. Stop being 4channers, kids. If you don't want to waste the time reading then you also shouldn't be wasting the time spent scrolling down to add your pointless comments.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
February 07 2010 06:37 GMT
#17
On February 07 2010 15:35 jiabung wrote:
saw this on reddit and here is what some informed person had to say on the matter:

I'm a grad student at Cambridge and I study this stuff. All I want to say to you is don't get your hopes up on any of this. The holographic theory is one of many that attempts to go beyond Einstein's general relativity. And the field of gravitational wave physics and astronomy is at least a decade away from possibly showing any deviations from GR. Also, GEO600 is currently one of the weaker gravitational wave detectors in operation (despite its extreme sensitivity, LIGO and Virgo are both more sensitive). Also, GEO is mainly testing new technologies for later use as upgrades to the other, larger detectors. So the fact that they have some unexplained noise is not surprising. And it's easy to come up with a theory that explains the noise, but much much harder to show that it's true. New Scientist is in the business of taking pop science and mixing it about like this.

Haha what a party pooper, oh wells. :D
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
ulszz
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
Jamaica1787 Posts
February 07 2010 06:44 GMT
#18
we live in a matrix... i knew it from the beginning
everliving, everfaithful, eversure
Jugan
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1566 Posts
February 07 2010 06:45 GMT
#19
On February 07 2010 14:56 dethrawr wrote:
If you're not going to read, then why +1?


Also, suck it up and read it, it takes 5 minutes.


It may help to make a summary of it... I usually like to read the summary of some kind of interesting article of some sort and if I like the summary, I'll read more. Also, it would help if you put it in a spoiler too. Sometimes just seeing a wall of small text is really hard on the eyes and is discouraging to people you're trying to engage in discussion with.
Even a Savior couldn't fix all problems. www.twitch.tv/xJugan
PokePill
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1048 Posts
February 07 2010 06:46 GMT
#20
On February 07 2010 15:26 Sapraedon wrote:
Idealism/solipsism/non-direct realism.

All empty propositions.


Isn't everything an empty proposition?
Disregard
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
China10252 Posts
February 07 2010 06:47 GMT
#21
First thing that pops in my head is we're living in some Matrix world. Oh noes.
"If I had to take a drug in order to be free, I'm screwed. Freedom exists in the mind, otherwise it doesn't exist."
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
February 07 2010 06:58 GMT
#22
id take the blue pill.
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
February 07 2010 07:02 GMT
#23
i read this a long time ago in scientific american, the hologram idea is pretty old news. it's not actually a big deal anyways. basically it's possible that we're living in a 2d world and the third dimension is an illusion. nothing matrix-like about that at all. i mean you've seen 3d movies, which are actually 2d but have the appearance of being 3d. big freaking deal. maybe the universe is like that. it's a pretty natural extension. of course the physics is involved is different but its no harder to believe than the claim that the universe has over 10 dimensions as required by string theory.
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-07 07:27:09
February 07 2010 07:22 GMT
#24
[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [longer explanation of the picture above] +

Susskind takes it a step further. Since the holographic principle leaves no room for information loss, he argues, no observer should ever see information disappear. That leads to a remarkable thought experiment.

Which brings us back to the elephant. Let's say Alice is watching a black hole from a safe distance, and she sees an elephant foolishly headed straight into gravity's grip. As she continues to watch, she will see it get closer and closer to the event horizon, slowing down because of the time-stretching effects of gravity in general relativity. However, she will never see it cross the horizon. Instead she sees it stop just short, where sadly Dumbo is thermalised by Hawking radiation and reduced to a pile of ashes streaming back out. From Alice's point of view, the elephant's information is contained in those ashes.
Inside or out?

There is a twist to the story. Little did Alice realise that her friend Bob was riding on the elephant's back as it plunged toward the black hole. When Bob crosses the event horizon, though, he doesn't even notice, thanks to relativity. The horizon is not a brick wall in space. It is simply the point beyond which an observer outside the black hole can't see light escaping. To Bob, who is in free fall, it looks like any other place in the universe; even the pull of gravity won't be noticeable for perhaps millions of years. Eventually as he nears the singularity, where the curvature of space-time runs amok, gravity will overpower Bob, and he and his elephant will be torn apart. Until then, he too sees information conserved.

Neither story is pretty, but which one is right? According to Alice, the elephant never crossed the horizon; she watched it approach the black hole and merge with the Hawking radiation. According to Bob, the elephant went through and floated along happily for eons until it turned into spaghetti. The laws of physics demand that both stories be true, yet they contradict one another. So where is the elephant, inside or out?

The answer Susskind has come up with is - you guessed it - both. The elephant is both inside and outside the black hole; the answer depends on who you ask. "What we've discovered is that you cannot speak of what is behind the horizon and what is in front of the horizon," Susskind says. "Quantum mechanics always involves replacing 'and' with 'or'. Light is waves or light is particles, depending on the experiment you do. An electron has a position or it has a momentum, depending on what you measure. The same is happening with black holes. Either we describe the stuff that fell into the horizon in terms of things behind the horizon, or we describe it in terms of the Hawking radiation that comes out."


The implications are unsettling, to say the least. Sure, quantum mechanics tells us that an object's location can't always be pinpointed. But that applies to things like electrons, not elephants, and it usually spans tiny distances, not light years. It is the large scale that makes this so surprising, Susskind says. In principle, if the black hole is big enough, the two versions of the same elephant could be separated by billions of light years. "People always thought quantum ambiguity was a small-scale phenomenon," he adds. "We're learning that the more quantum gravity becomes important, the more huge-scale ambiguity comes into play."

All this amounts to the fact that an object's location in space-time is no longer indisputable. Susskind calls this "a new form of relativity". Einstein took factors that were thought to be invariable - an object's length and the passage of time - and showed that they were relative to the motion of an observer. The location of an object in space or in time could only be defined with respect to an observer, but its location in space-time was certain. Now that notion has been shattered, says Susskind, and an object's location in space-time depends on an observer's state of motion with respect to a horizon.

What's more, this new type of "non-locality" is not just for black holes. It occurs anywhere a boundary separates regions of the universe that can't communicate with each other. Such horizons are more common than you might think. Anything that accelerates - the Earth, the solar system, the Milky Way - creates a horizon. Even if you're out running, there are regions of space-time from which light would never reach you if you kept speeding up. Those inaccessible regions are beyond your horizon.

As researchers forge ahead in their quest to unify quantum mechanics and gravity, non-locality may help point the way. For instance, quantum gravity should obey the holographic principle. That means there might be redundant information and fewer important dimensions of space-time in the theory. "This has to be part of the understanding of quantum gravity," Giddings says. "It's likely that this black hole information paradox will lead to a revolution at least as profound as the advent of quantum mechanics."
This paradox will lead to a revolution as profound as the birth of quantum mechanics

That's not all. The fact that space-time itself is accelerating - that is, the expansion of the universe is speeding up - also creates a horizon. Just as we could learn that an elephant lurked inside a black hole by decoding the Hawking radiation, perhaps we might learn what's beyond our cosmic horizon by decoding its emissions. How? According to Susskind, the cosmic microwave background that surrounds us might be even more important than we think. Cosmologists study this radiation because its variations tell us about the infant moments of time, but Susskind speculates that it could be a kind of Hawking radiation coming from our universe's edge. If that's the case, it might tell us something about the elephants on the other side of the universe.

source
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-07 07:30:34
February 07 2010 07:24 GMT
#25
imo strings and M theory are even crazier than this shit. This thing just leans towards more evidence of M theory's existence.

There are a series of Docus about this kinda stuff if you find it interesting.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3012_elegant.html
Hour 1: Einstein's Dream
Hour 2: String's The Thing
Hour 3: Welcome to the 11th Dimension

definitely worth a Torrent.

It basically starts out by explaining that if nothing is faster than the speed of light, then that means gravity or gravitrons are the same speed. So in an example, they say if the sun just up and vanished, would we instantly fly straight out? Or since sunlight takes 8minutes to reach earth, that we would continue to orbit until they reach us and then fly out?
later they actually get into this concept of directions. and that's where string theories start. Instead of the normal stuff like: time, and spacial movements (up,down,left,right,back, and forth) which we call 4d. It claims that there might be other dimensions or extensions of our dimension that are always around us but we just cannot touch or reach into.
3 hours of mind warping.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
February 07 2010 07:31 GMT
#26
ive seen many of these kinds of docus, theyre fun and interesting but be wary, often they are over-dramatic and sometimes even somewhat misleading
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
EGMachine
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
United States1643 Posts
February 07 2010 07:57 GMT
#27
really interesting stuff!
I'm like, the coolest
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
February 07 2010 08:04 GMT
#28
oh shit Zelniq that conservation of information thing is interesting. and i dunno, m-theory is cute but it's not really the ultimate theory that the media likes to make it out to be. it makes some clever connections between different things but there are still huge holes in it.
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-07 08:29:32
February 07 2010 08:23 GMT
#29
On February 07 2010 14:56 dethrawr wrote:
If you're not going to read, then why +1?

tl;dr we are actually living in a flat 2d universe projected like a hologram from a credit card.

Also, suck it up and read it, it takes 5 minutes.


This is not the right attitude.

Clearly you are new to the forum, and there are rules against posting a wall of copied and pasted text. When someone informs you of your mistakes, please react better. Just saying the article is "interesting" isn't enough, as anything is bound to be interesting to some people.

If you can't muster enough effort to produce a decent summary, then you probably shouldn't post it; especially if it's on a topic that is highly scientific.

This is what you should do:

Ie, post the article here, post a summary for the folks with short attention spans, post your take on the situation, etc.


FYI: I read it, I didn't find it interesting at all because I could not appreciate its implications.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
gyth
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
657 Posts
February 08 2010 04:27 GMT
#30
"The key thing is that such experiments are sensitive to changes in the length of the rulers that are far smaller than the diameter of a proton," says Hogan.

That sounded crazy when I read it, but if you'd like to read more.
http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2000-3/
The plural of anecdote is not data.
Kyhol
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2574 Posts
February 09 2010 05:36 GMT
#31
Great read. I think about things like this everyday. It relates to my personal theories.
Wishing you well.
251
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1401 Posts
February 09 2010 05:55 GMT
#32
Reading things like this make me feel very uneasy about how stable our universe is. Like whenever your problems start to really weigh on you, just think about outer space. You'll get over them quicker. All we are is dust in the wind~
"If you can chill..........then chill."
ghermination
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States2851 Posts
February 09 2010 06:19 GMT
#33
while i vaguely understand the concept they're trying to explain, the idea that we are all 3 dimensional projections determined by the interactions of particles at the size of a Planck length is completely pointless, considering it won't effect our day to day lives whatsoever.
U Gotta Skate.
gLyo
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
United States2410 Posts
February 09 2010 06:27 GMT
#34
On February 09 2010 15:19 ghermination wrote:
while i vaguely understand the concept they're trying to explain, the idea that we are all 3 dimensional projections determined by the interactions of particles at the size of a Planck length is completely pointless, considering it won't effect our day to day lives whatsoever.


Discovering such a fundamental truth about the nature of our existence would open up so many scientific doors -- a unifying theory, just to start -- that I'm positive it would eventually have a dramatic effect on our daily lives.

Course we're probably not holograms.
http://benisonline.com
bellweather
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States404 Posts
February 09 2010 07:02 GMT
#35
Why are so many people so eager to say the holographic universe theory is "pointless"? Not having a passion for physics (like me) is understandable, but these theories attempt to give humanity as a whole a better working knowledge of the universe. It may not affect our daily lives as of now, but it may somewhere in the future and we shouldn't simply dismiss it as being useless.

Anywho, does someone more knowledgeable about physics want to explain the theory outlined in the article in greater detail? How do we interact on a 3 dimensional level with other objects if we're simply a projection emanating from a 2d space? I imagine this has something to do with the particularities of space-time, but I don't see how exactly.
A mathematician is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat which isnt' there. -Charles Darwin
Shizuru~
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Malaysia1676 Posts
February 09 2010 08:24 GMT
#36
so in a nutshell, what these physicist are saying is that our world as we know it, is a reflection off a mirror(holographic)? imo physics is leaning more and more away from the common sense of our understanding since the start of quantum physics towards more of a theosophical explainations... like u could reference these theories closely to ancient theologies and religious teachings... well maybe not all recent physics theory i stopped catching up on physics after quantum physics cause imo its leaning more and more towards total bullshits, i don have a physics degree just my 2 cents.

starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
February 09 2010 08:59 GMT
#37
It's saying that what looks like physics in a 3d universe (like ours) can actually be represented as physics on a 2d horizon (like a black hole's event horizon). Everything is just encoded differently. There's also the possibility of a information equivalence (in addition to Einstein's matter-energy equivalence) which I think is the REALLY interesting part of the theory.

I won't say it's not a big deal, but it's more of a different way of seeing things than a matrix-like revolution. It's similar to how Einstein said that all physics in a 3d universe with one time dimension can be thought of as happening in a 4d spacetime universe. The actual physical effects of the hologram theory only appears at very small length scales, just like relativity only manifests itself at high speeds and high gravitational curvature. I dunno, the fact that everything might be flat is cool but I think relativity's 4 dimensions is a lot harder to really wrap your head around.
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2748 Posts
February 09 2010 09:46 GMT
#38
Ok, I read halfway. It's full of analogies to give us readers a hint of comprehension. But I have no idea what it's talking about, other than that our world is in fact 2-d instead of 3-d. Instead of 11-d.
Khul Sadukar
Profile Joined August 2009
Australia1735 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-10 03:01:43
February 10 2010 02:46 GMT
#39
interesting stuff!

this article reminded me of the end in MIB 2. (our universe could be just inside a locker of a train station on another plane)

not sure how exactly as i kept reading it became clear i wasnt interpreting it right, lol. the impression i got was: there is a source of light far beyond the boundary of our cosmic horizon which creates a hologram effect in which we reside?
I don't want to be part everything. I want to be something. - Weapon X
arcticStorm
Profile Joined January 2009
United States295 Posts
February 10 2010 03:04 GMT
#40
Hmm...it seems a little paradoxical. If the universe is indeed grainy, then how can a grainy instrument be trusted to determine whether the universe is a hologram or not?
This statement is a lie.
SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
February 10 2010 03:22 GMT
#41
42.
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
February 10 2010 03:39 GMT
#42
Crazy.
Quantum Time? My mind hurts T_T
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
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