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On January 09 2010 11:27 ghermination wrote:
I may sound biased when i say this, but i don't even think there's any point in making these threads. It's been proven again and again that Islam promotes ridiculous amounts of extremism and fanatical zealotry in it's participants. I honestly think Islam holds back a quarter of the world as far as education is concerned, and is possibly the worst idealogical disaster since eugenics, even though i'm aware it's been around for far longer.
Basically Islam is a religion that refused to evolve with all of the other ones. Christianity eventually admitted that, for example, women being allowed to vote wasn't a sin, and many other things. All religions have advanced their sensibilities at least slightly to the left, other than Islam. It's frozen in time 1000 years ago when a religion like that gave it's leaders powers over the people, which was exactly what they wanted. But now that it's been essentially marginalized to certain parts of the world (predominately the Middle East, a good amount of Asia, and part of Europe) it just continues to harm people.
I would support a ban against practicing that religion, only because of the damage it does to its practitioners. And I realize that that would cause civil wars and political destabilization of large parts of the world, but I think it would be necessary considering that it causes some of the biggest problems in the world, and is (dare i say) actually holding the rest of us back from peaceful advancement.
I expect to be flamed for this.
No flame but:
+ Show Spoiler +
these are just off the top of my head, im no History major
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On January 10 2010 19:59 JFKWT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 11:27 ghermination wrote:
I may sound biased when i say this, but i don't even think there's any point in making these threads. It's been proven again and again that Islam promotes ridiculous amounts of extremism and fanatical zealotry in it's participants. I honestly think Islam holds back a quarter of the world as far as education is concerned, and is possibly the worst idealogical disaster since eugenics, even though i'm aware it's been around for far longer.
Basically Islam is a religion that refused to evolve with all of the other ones. Christianity eventually admitted that, for example, women being allowed to vote wasn't a sin, and many other things. All religions have advanced their sensibilities at least slightly to the left, other than Islam. It's frozen in time 1000 years ago when a religion like that gave it's leaders powers over the people, which was exactly what they wanted. But now that it's been essentially marginalized to certain parts of the world (predominately the Middle East, a good amount of Asia, and part of Europe) it just continues to harm people.
I would support a ban against practicing that religion, only because of the damage it does to its practitioners. And I realize that that would cause civil wars and political destabilization of large parts of the world, but I think it would be necessary considering that it causes some of the biggest problems in the world, and is (dare i say) actually holding the rest of us back from peaceful advancement.
I expect to be flamed for this. No flame but: + Show Spoiler +these are just off the top of my head, im no History major
You say that the Holocaust is christian based or what do you mean?
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The holocaust was not based on Christianity.
The crusades were fought a LONG time ago when everybody fought over "holy land" you don't see Christians getting together to take over Jerusalem.
I'm not religious but I'll give Christians some credit for not going overboard.
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United States22883 Posts
On January 10 2010 11:14 Savant wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 10:46 daz wrote:On January 10 2010 10:27 Savant wrote:On January 10 2010 02:52 MannerMan wrote:
It is very sad that so many can be moved so strongly by religion.
I hope one day they can see the beautiful truths behind our existence instead of the lies and tyranny of those who oppress them with fear. LOL at the atheists and science-worshippers. Sure, if we eliminate all religion we can get rid of all that's wrong in the world. Oh wait, I forgot that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, etc. were all devout worshippers of God who didn't massacre innocent members of religious minorities. And certainly the innumerable humanitarian programs fueled by religious belief would certainly continue if everyone came to their senses and became atheist (hint: look at China for this dream state). Let's not forget that Eugenics was a direct result of scientific, not religious, ideas. Let's face it people, looking at history being inhuman is the natural state of humanity, and just because people manipulate religion (along with everything else) to justify their greed, bigotry, or racism doesn't make religion the villain. If anything, religion provides a check to some of these tendencies: without religion Hitler, Mao, etc. could still exist, but Mother Teresa could not. If you're atheist fine, but don't go calling people who differ with your OPINION ignorant mislead retards because that's just announcing that you're an ignorant mislead retard, and puts you on the same level as that Muslim/Christian/Hindu who right now is calling you an ignorant mislead retard. Believe it or not, there is a way to rationally discuss sensitive issues like this without resorting to name calling and displays of your intellectual bigotry. Thank you very much. There's no way for YOU to rationally discuss them because you're not capable of rational thinking. I'm an applied physics major at Cornell with a 3.8 GPA. I think I'm entitled to be considered at least a somewhat rational human being. And no, I'm not denying that religion can be bad as well as good. I'm just calling out the idiots who make religion the scapegoat for all that is wrong with the world. My personal opinion on the matter is that the people involved should be tried and punished as criminals. I also think there is something seriously wrong within the Muslim religion that would inspire so many of its adherents to religious violence. No, your 3.8 GPA in applied physics at Cornell doesn't mean shit on this topic since WE'RE NOT DISCUSSING APPLIED PHYSICS
God, TL General is such an awful place now. The closer we get to SC2, the more ignorant the average poster becomes.
On January 10 2010 20:25 Mykill wrote:
The holocaust was not based on Christianity.
The crusades were fought a LONG time ago when everybody fought over "holy land" you don't see Christians getting together to take over Jerusalem.
I'm not religious but I'll give Christians some credit for not going overboard.
Christian Serbs and Croats slaughtered, raped, destroyed thousands of Muslim Bosnians (and each other) less than 20 years ago - people of the very same fucking ethnicity and language - because of a political struggle combined with a ridiculous Serb religious myth about Prince Lazarus. 15 years ago, a Jewish doctor stormed into a mosque in Hebron and killed 29 people praying and wounded 150 others The Turner Diaries still influences thousands of people, some of which decided to blow up the Federal Building in Oklahoma.
If you want to enter this discussion, maybe you should stop studying applied physics and take a course or two in history or sociology or poli sci. This clash of civilizations, 'other'ing bullshit is not only wrong, but it's the exact same process used to demonize the "West" by the disenfranchised idiots you have a problem with. A political/economic problems get reframed into a religious/cultural one, and all of the sudden you have a reason to enter direct conflict rather than use mechanisms like the political process to solve things. This is a problem with the Malaysian government, not a fucking religion.
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On January 10 2010 20:25 Mykill wrote:
The holocaust was not based on Christianity.
The crusades were fought a LONG time ago when everybody fought over "holy land" you don't see Christians getting together to take over Jerusalem.
I'm not religious but I'll give Christians some credit for not going overboard.
Maybe we should go conquer Jerusalem... :o
No? anyone?
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funny news, bunch of idiots claiming property on words hehe, i've been in KL, i expected them to be a bit more flexible than that 
"You're a protoss!!!! YOU CAN'T SAY the word SLAYERS_'BOXER'!! BOXER BELONG TO US TERRAN"
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On January 10 2010 20:45 paulinepain wrote:funny news, bunch of idiots claiming property on words hehe, i've been in KL, i expected them to be a bit more flexible than that
In my opinion, its an attempt by the hardliners to gain more favour for electorial purposes. For 'other' stuff, its generally flexible I suppose. Non Muslims are able to drink alcohol etc no problemos here. It won't be changing anytime soon for at least years more. The general Malaysian community are becoming more aware on politics in the past few years. I believe the rest of the Muslim community in Malaysia (Most of it) are just simply 'wtf?'.
Religion does have some good points like supposingly not forcing ppl to convert but people simply abuse it. In short, its not purely that the religion is bad. The practioners are ;o. Theres a higher chance of such Muslim violence in the Middle East than here due to the culture and I assume it could be a 'relapse' of their own Dark Ages.
It will be a fact that a lot of countries will have or already had this problem at least once. And it will not stop even if religion is gone. Just my 2 cents.
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this thread is a backho[black] thread :D
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On January 10 2010 22:13 Marksman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 20:45 paulinepain wrote:funny news, bunch of idiots claiming property on words hehe, i've been in KL, i expected them to be a bit more flexible than that In my opinion, its an attempt by the hardliners to gain more favour for electorial purposes. For 'other' stuff, its generally flexible I suppose. Non Muslims are able to drink alcohol etc no problemos here. It won't be changing anytime soon for at least years more. The general Malaysian community are becoming more aware on politics in the past few years. I believe the rest of the Muslim community in Malaysia (Most of it) are just simply 'wtf?'. Religion does have some good points like supposingly not forcing ppl to convert but people simply abuse it. In short, its not purely that the religion is bad. The practioners are ;o. Theres a higher chance of such Muslim violence in the Middle East than here due to the culture and I assume it could be a 'relapse' of their own Dark Ages. It will be a fact that a lot of countries will have or already had this problem at least once. And it will not stop even if religion is gone. Just my 2 cents.
Oh dear god, the secular institution of democracy gives incentives to divide the population in order to consolidate power? Looks like playing the power broker game is more universal than previously believed!
My world has been shaken by this insinuation. Leave me for I must now rethink my life.
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On January 09 2010 11:07 cz wrote:
This story is a fabrication; I know this because Islam is the religion of peace, and thus what you stated cannot have happened.
All religions are "religions of peace" - until they are twisted to fit individual ideologies.
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On January 10 2010 20:43 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 11:14 Savant wrote:On January 10 2010 10:46 daz wrote:On January 10 2010 10:27 Savant wrote:On January 10 2010 02:52 MannerMan wrote:
It is very sad that so many can be moved so strongly by religion.
I hope one day they can see the beautiful truths behind our existence instead of the lies and tyranny of those who oppress them with fear. LOL at the atheists and science-worshippers. Sure, if we eliminate all religion we can get rid of all that's wrong in the world. Oh wait, I forgot that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, etc. were all devout worshippers of God who didn't massacre innocent members of religious minorities. And certainly the innumerable humanitarian programs fueled by religious belief would certainly continue if everyone came to their senses and became atheist (hint: look at China for this dream state). Let's not forget that Eugenics was a direct result of scientific, not religious, ideas. Let's face it people, looking at history being inhuman is the natural state of humanity, and just because people manipulate religion (along with everything else) to justify their greed, bigotry, or racism doesn't make religion the villain. If anything, religion provides a check to some of these tendencies: without religion Hitler, Mao, etc. could still exist, but Mother Teresa could not. If you're atheist fine, but don't go calling people who differ with your OPINION ignorant mislead retards because that's just announcing that you're an ignorant mislead retard, and puts you on the same level as that Muslim/Christian/Hindu who right now is calling you an ignorant mislead retard. Believe it or not, there is a way to rationally discuss sensitive issues like this without resorting to name calling and displays of your intellectual bigotry. Thank you very much. There's no way for YOU to rationally discuss them because you're not capable of rational thinking. I'm an applied physics major at Cornell with a 3.8 GPA. I think I'm entitled to be considered at least a somewhat rational human being. And no, I'm not denying that religion can be bad as well as good. I'm just calling out the idiots who make religion the scapegoat for all that is wrong with the world. My personal opinion on the matter is that the people involved should be tried and punished as criminals. I also think there is something seriously wrong within the Muslim religion that would inspire so many of its adherents to religious violence. No, your 3.8 GPA in applied physics at Cornell doesn't mean shit on this topic since WE'RE NOT DISCUSSING APPLIED PHYSICSGod, TL General is such an awful place now. The closer we get to SC2, the more ignorant the average poster becomes. Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 20:25 Mykill wrote:
The holocaust was not based on Christianity.
The crusades were fought a LONG time ago when everybody fought over "holy land" you don't see Christians getting together to take over Jerusalem.
I'm not religious but I'll give Christians some credit for not going overboard. Christian Serbs and Croats slaughtered, raped, destroyed thousands of Muslim Bosnians (and each other) less than 20 years ago - people of the very same fucking ethnicity and language - because of a political struggle combined with a ridiculous Serb religious myth about Prince Lazarus. 15 years ago, a Jewish doctor stormed into a mosque in Hebron and killed 29 people praying and wounded 150 others The Turner Diaries still influences thousands of people, some of which decided to blow up the Federal Building in Oklahoma. If you want to enter this discussion, maybe you should stop studying applied physics and take a course or two in history or sociology or poli sci. This clash of civilizations, 'other'ing bullshit is not only wrong, but it's the exact same process used to demonize the "West" by the disenfranchised idiots you have a problem with. A political/economic problems get reframed into a religious/cultural one, and all of the sudden you have a reason to enter direct conflict rather than use mechanisms like the political process to solve things. This is a problem with the Malaysian government, not a fucking religion.
Thank you jibba for this message
I now know that there is still hope in this world
One of the very few posts that actually make sens in this thread
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OP updated, more churches are getting harrassed over the weekends...
strange thing is, no one is being held accountable after all that happened and the Malaysian government doesn't seem like they're doing anything about it, could any1 from Malaysia shed some light on wtf is going on there?
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strange thing is, no one is being held accountable That's not strange at all.
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On January 10 2010 13:31 yrag89 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 12:50 Vedic wrote:
I can't understand why Christians would want to be able to refer to their god as Allah. They're basically saying "You just worship the word for god, but it really means our god." Anyone who doesn't see this as IRL trolling is blind.
Violence and bickering over the potential naming conventions of fantasy characters is hilarious. In Malay Language, they call God, Allah.
No, in Arabic language maybe, but not in Malay language. In Malay language Allah are commonly used to describe muslim God. "Tuhan" is the correct Malay word for God. Another word is "Dewa", commonly used for polytheism(Hindu) Gods.
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On January 11 2010 03:28 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 11:07 cz wrote:
This story is a fabrication; I know this because Islam is the religion of peace, and thus what you stated cannot have happened. All religions are "religions of peace" - until they are twisted to fit individual ideologies.
Actually it's the other way around, all religions are religions of extreme and barbaric violence. Modern people have had to twist it around so that they can still live in society without being lunatics. For example, here is a quote from the bible from Deuteronomy 20:10-14
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
Here's another fun one from Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her
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On January 10 2010 20:43 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 11:14 Savant wrote:On January 10 2010 10:46 daz wrote:On January 10 2010 10:27 Savant wrote:On January 10 2010 02:52 MannerMan wrote:
It is very sad that so many can be moved so strongly by religion.
I hope one day they can see the beautiful truths behind our existence instead of the lies and tyranny of those who oppress them with fear. LOL at the atheists and science-worshippers. Sure, if we eliminate all religion we can get rid of all that's wrong in the world. Oh wait, I forgot that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, etc. were all devout worshippers of God who didn't massacre innocent members of religious minorities. And certainly the innumerable humanitarian programs fueled by religious belief would certainly continue if everyone came to their senses and became atheist (hint: look at China for this dream state). Let's not forget that Eugenics was a direct result of scientific, not religious, ideas. Let's face it people, looking at history being inhuman is the natural state of humanity, and just because people manipulate religion (along with everything else) to justify their greed, bigotry, or racism doesn't make religion the villain. If anything, religion provides a check to some of these tendencies: without religion Hitler, Mao, etc. could still exist, but Mother Teresa could not. If you're atheist fine, but don't go calling people who differ with your OPINION ignorant mislead retards because that's just announcing that you're an ignorant mislead retard, and puts you on the same level as that Muslim/Christian/Hindu who right now is calling you an ignorant mislead retard. Believe it or not, there is a way to rationally discuss sensitive issues like this without resorting to name calling and displays of your intellectual bigotry. Thank you very much. There's no way for YOU to rationally discuss them because you're not capable of rational thinking. I'm an applied physics major at Cornell with a 3.8 GPA. I think I'm entitled to be considered at least a somewhat rational human being. And no, I'm not denying that religion can be bad as well as good. I'm just calling out the idiots who make religion the scapegoat for all that is wrong with the world. My personal opinion on the matter is that the people involved should be tried and punished as criminals. I also think there is something seriously wrong within the Muslim religion that would inspire so many of its adherents to religious violence. No, your 3.8 GPA in applied physics at Cornell doesn't mean shit on this topic since WE'RE NOT DISCUSSING APPLIED PHYSICSGod, TL General is such an awful place now. The closer we get to SC2, the more ignorant the average poster becomes. Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 20:25 Mykill wrote:
The holocaust was not based on Christianity.
The crusades were fought a LONG time ago when everybody fought over "holy land" you don't see Christians getting together to take over Jerusalem.
I'm not religious but I'll give Christians some credit for not going overboard. Christian Serbs and Croats slaughtered, raped, destroyed thousands of Muslim Bosnians (and each other) less than 20 years ago - people of the very same fucking ethnicity and language - because of a political struggle combined with a ridiculous Serb religious myth about Prince Lazarus. 15 years ago, a Jewish doctor stormed into a mosque in Hebron and killed 29 people praying and wounded 150 others The Turner Diaries still influences thousands of people, some of which decided to blow up the Federal Building in Oklahoma. If you want to enter this discussion, maybe you should stop studying applied physics and take a course or two in history or sociology or poli sci. This clash of civilizations, 'other'ing bullshit is not only wrong, but it's the exact same process used to demonize the "West" by the disenfranchised idiots you have a problem with. A political/economic problems get reframed into a religious/cultural one, and all of the sudden you have a reason to enter direct conflict rather than use mechanisms like the political process to solve things. This is a problem with the Malaysian government, not a fucking religion.
I agree with what you wrote in most of your post but maybe you should take a course in modern history before you start posting about events that you have no knowledge of. Normally I wouldn't care but you're using Serbia as an example and that's where I'm from so I would appreciate if you did some research about what happened there before you start throwing around terms like destroyed and slaughtered and raped and "Serb religious myth about Prince Lazarus".
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On January 09 2010 11:07 cz wrote:
This story is a fabrication; I know this because Islam is the religion of peace, and thus what you stated cannot have happened.
rofl
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Separation of church and state (not just de jure, but de facto as well) and all troubles disappear
"Imagine all the people... living for today! <3"
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On January 11 2010 10:17 daz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 03:28 synapse wrote:On January 09 2010 11:07 cz wrote:
This story is a fabrication; I know this because Islam is the religion of peace, and thus what you stated cannot have happened. All religions are "religions of peace" - until they are twisted to fit individual ideologies. Actually it's the other way around, all religions are religions of extreme and barbaric violence. Modern people have had to twist it around so that they can still live in society without being lunatics. For example, here is a quote from the bible from Deuteronomy 20:10-14 As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.Here's another fun one from Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her
LOL at the second example xD
Well, what you said is kind of what I mean. In general, religious literature does use violence in stories and in rules, etc. but (for the most part) tries to promote goodwill, peace, morality, all the good stuff. This is because the only way to spread a religion is to make it seem like its doing some kind of good to the individual: "believe in our god... or you go to hell!" The bible is obviously full of shit, but what most people get from attending church isn't "kill your family and friends" or anything terribly absurd.
Like you said, if people did follow exactly what the bible stated, this world would be... well, you know. Christians would obviously think of Christianity as a "religion of peace" rather than one of violence - either because they associate both peace and their own religion with good, or because they don't actually read the bible. Extremists of certain religions are convinced that what they are doing (killing people) will somehow benefit them; even if most followers of a certain religion believe their religion to be a "religion of peace" (though most really aren't - hence the quotation marks), any religion can be twisted to go from story violence to actual violence.
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On January 10 2010 10:27 Savant wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 02:52 MannerMan wrote:
It is very sad that so many can be moved so strongly by religion.
I hope one day they can see the beautiful truths behind our existence instead of the lies and tyranny of those who oppress them with fear. LOL at the atheists and science-worshippers. Sure, if we eliminate all religion we can get rid of all that's wrong in the world. Oh wait, I forgot that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, etc. were all devout worshippers of God who didn't massacre innocent members of religious minorities.
There's a very, very important difference between being a murderer who is an Atheist, and a murderer BECAUSE of your religion. Honestly that one is not hard.
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EPT
