EPTAfter you learn colemak for the first time you shouldn't use qwerty at all until you get colemak up to speed. After that, you have to relearn qwerty, but after you've relearned qwerty they both stick.
[Q] Dvorak? - Page 5
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Phrujbaz
Netherlands512 Posts
After you learn colemak for the first time you shouldn't use qwerty at all until you get colemak up to speed. After that, you have to relearn qwerty, but after you've relearned qwerty they both stick. | ||
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Archaic
United States4024 Posts
On December 20 2009 23:52 Phrujbaz wrote: I type 120 on colemak and 100 in qwerty. After you learn colemak for the first time you shouldn't use qwerty at all until you get colemak up to speed. After that, you have to relearn qwerty, but after you've relearned qwerty they both stick. I've been so slow in learning colemak for this exact reason. Definitely don't use QWERTY when you're learning it; You get confused. | ||
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FusionCutter
Canada974 Posts
On December 20 2009 23:52 Phrujbaz wrote: I type 120 on colemak and 100 in qwerty. After you learn colemak for the first time you shouldn't use qwerty at all until you get colemak up to speed. After that, you have to relearn qwerty, but after you've relearned qwerty they both stick. Thanks for the tip! | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On December 08 2009 08:02 Liquid_Turbo wrote: I'm a Colemak noob, but able to switch quite easily. QWERTY doesn't go away. A glance at the keyboard and you are reminded by it. Muscle memory is still quite strong. http://www.colemak.com/Hand_alternation What's wrong with the Dvorak layout?
1. Wrong if you ever learned more then two languages you should know learning a language that is very similar to another one in words can be difficult becuase you will mix up assioations with words, in other words the keyboard being very different is acutlly beneficial to those who want to be able to use qwerty and dvorak 2. That's not very different from dvorak that's what's wrong with qwerty not dvorak 3. ditto 4. agreed to some extent as most people are right handed the right hand is likely most strained from typing and using the mouse but there are left hand only variants of dvorak although to each his own. 5. Change the bindings in the program you're using etc you're learning a new layout and don't want to go the extra mile 6. what??? 7.dvorak wasn't created with the intention of weird strings passionated with cmds or programming it's why there is alot a dvorak variant with programming in mind. and colemak isn't much better in that department imo hyphen certain punctuations and brackets are still far from optimal for programming etc. http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/ i have probably enough free time to learn a new layout so i've been fancying the idea. Probably best to learn from the start as a touch typist i don't type properly, at all i reach across the keyboard and turn my hands sideways to string together characters faster as i never formally learned how to type just learned out of use. So i'm used to my strange way of typing which gets me 80-90 wpm so hardly a bad thing. | ||
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Vestige
United States303 Posts
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SoManyDeadLings
Canada255 Posts
Disappointed I am. | ||
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Dracid
United States280 Posts
In terms of practical usage, there's no real reason to learn Dvorak. You're not going to be typing any faster unless you're willing to completely drop qwerty (I'm not), and even then I doubt it'd be a significant increase. I'd also say that the comfort thing is mostly mental (80% placebo effect, 20% your fingers moving around less) although admittedly I do prefer typing in Dvorak. If you want to learn it a different layout as a hobby, go for it, but don't expect it to make any big differences in your typing. That aside, knowing a non-qwerty layout's pretty fun; passwords are really easy to make if you memorize two layouts, and you can easily type out cryptograms. | ||
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FusionCutter
Canada974 Posts
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Yammiez
Canada186 Posts
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
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DueleR
United States207 Posts
always been a pretty fast qwerty typer, average around ~140 and topped out at around 150-170 on my good days (was top 20 all-time on the website typeracer for a long time) early last year I decided to check out dvorak because i had heard good things about it. spent maybe ~2 months learning it on the side (didn't switch full-time to dvorak like most people suggest, since i needed to be able to type fast with qwerty for everyday tasks.) Ended up averaging about 100 wpm on dvorak, top speed of 120 or so. was it worth it? probably not. it didn't really affect my qwerty speed since i never used dvorak full-time, and right now i can switch effortlessly back and forth between qwerty and dvorak. however, i still use qwerty for all normal tasks and don't really have any use for dvorak. it's a cool thing to be able to type in dvorak but not very practical as my speed is still much faster in qwerty. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On December 07 2009 04:52 Chef wrote: The ironic thing is that you're being serious, and yet blu-ray is an absolutely ridiculous dead-before-it-started technology. It's completely proprietary and inferior to countless other high resolution technologies. It may be a bit late to throw this in here, but I figured I might as well since someone dug this thread up anyway. This made me laugh... Getting back to the topic, I started learning Dvorak and quit simply because it felt pointless for me. Aside from the actual effort required and the loss of productivity during the time you're learning the new layout, you run into the issue of hotkeys... I suppose how important this actually is largely depends on the number and type of programs you use, but for me, it was just unacceptable to be forced to use such awkward hotkeys all the time. I suppose for those that do a lot of typing, the fatigue issue is something that might need to be addressed and Dvorak certainly could do that as the layout is a bit more optimized for that purpose. I found that I personally don't type anywhere near enough to cause my fingers any fatigue so this point was moot for me. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." is the phrase that comes to mind. If there's a particular issue that you need addressed that Dvorak may remedy, then by all means do it. But increased comfort in this case comes with decreased comfort in other ways, such as hotkeys, learning curve and portability (if you're not always typing on your computer). As for the typing speed issue in particular, I can't really say anything personally since I never mastered it, but I could certainly see it if someone said that they type a bit faster on Dvorak simply because it does feel like your fingers do less movement, which would probably increase your speed. | ||
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FusionCutter
Canada974 Posts
On May 17 2010 08:43 DueleR wrote: old thread, but if anybody is curious my experience is this: always been a pretty fast qwerty typer, average around ~140 and topped out at around 150-170 on my good days (was top 20 all-time on the website typeracer for a long time) early last year I decided to check out dvorak because i had heard good things about it. spent maybe ~2 months learning it on the side (didn't switch full-time to dvorak like most people suggest, since i needed to be able to type fast with qwerty for everyday tasks.) Ended up averaging about 100 wpm on dvorak, top speed of 120 or so. was it worth it? probably not. it didn't really affect my qwerty speed since i never used dvorak full-time, and right now i can switch effortlessly back and forth between qwerty and dvorak. however, i still use qwerty for all normal tasks and don't really have any use for dvorak. it's a cool thing to be able to type in dvorak but not very practical as my speed is still much faster in qwerty. You've been typing on QWERTY for how many years now? Dvorak for 2 months off an on? What do you expect? | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On May 17 2010 08:50 Liquid_Turbo wrote: You've been typing on QWERTY for how many years now? Dvorak for 2 months off an on? What do you expect? Well this is one of the major issues with the switch. Despite any level of optimization, ultimately experience and familiarity play a huge role. "Better" is not necessarily better once you take this into account. What comes to my mind is NalRa with his ball mouse. We would all regard it as silly, inferior technology, but switching obviously didn't make sense to him because the learning curve to get familiar with this new, "better" technology and loss of performance during this period was simply not worth it for him to invest for benefits that may or may not be there for him. | ||
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DueleR
United States207 Posts
On May 17 2010 08:50 Liquid_Turbo wrote: You've been typing on QWERTY for how many years now? Dvorak for 2 months off an on? What do you expect? I mean 2 months is around the time it took me to become familiar with the layout and reach my top speed. I typed with dvorak for a good 6-8 months after that, and could never break 120ish wpm. Hence why I'm back to exclusively qwerty. Obviously, I can't say for sure that Dvorak is not "better" in the sense that I might have a higher wpm now if I had started with Dvorak when I first started using computers. But that's something I'll never know the answer to, and as JinMaikuel pointed out above, I just don't feel it's worth it to sink more time into Dvorak when I already type fast on Qwerty and probably won't ever exceed that speed in Dvorak. | ||
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ghen
United States1356 Posts
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Biri_US
United States5 Posts
I'm not sure I'd recommend learning it for the supposed benefits, because as mentioned before, the learning curve would probably make it less worthwhile, but if you find it amusing or are interested in lifehacks, give it a go. Of course, now that I've gotten the Dvorak layout for SC hotkeys engraved in my skull, I won't be switching back to Qwerty anytime soon... | ||
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TriniMasta
United States1323 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:17 Liquid_Turbo wrote: The benefit its repetitive stress injuries. +1 | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
i don't really understand the benefits tbh, maybe you might type a little faster (questionable statement at best), but i don't understand the discomfort argument at all. i don't get tired typing all day, and this was before my fingers became strong through getting faster at rubik's cube. now they are substantially stronger, especially my index fingers (which probably do the majority of movement on the keyboard considering their placement). So I think a little stretching won't hurt =) | ||
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