• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:19
CEST 06:19
KST 13:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)2Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over2New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!37Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Announcement PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini Which box art did your first copy of StarCraft 1 have? New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! ASL22 General Discussion XUN appreciation thread
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group F BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6231 users

[Q] Dvorak? - Page 2

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
PUPATREE
Profile Joined August 2009
340 Posts
December 04 2009 23:30 GMT
#21
i learned dvorak, but eventually went back to qwerty.
don't bother buying a dvorak keyboard, at least not until you really like it. for now, just remap your keys. if you use other keyboards (school computer, friend's computer, etc), expect to use qwerty on them.
i personally never had any trouble or speedloss when i had to use qwerty again, but until i became comfortable with dvorak, every switch slowed down my learning and discouraged me.
the two biggest reasons i gave up on making the permanent switch were 1. i couldn't stand my ctrl+zxcv being all over the keyboard (although there are 3rd party remapping programs to get around that), and 2. i generally do one-handed typing when browsing, and i disliked how it felt on the normal dvorak layout.
if you haven't looked into it, consider the colemak layout. it keeps a lot of normal qwerty shortcut keys, but, like dvorak, feels much nicer to type with. if i had learned colemak instead, i'd probably still be using it.
switching layouts isn't for everyone. the experience that someone's friend had may be completely different from the one you will have. your fingers will move around on the keyboard significantly less, and typing will generally feel better, but you shouldn't expect an increase in how fast you type. Godspeed.
ㅋㄲㅈㅁ
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
December 04 2009 23:39 GMT
#22
I tried Dvorak, never really got used to it,and went back to qwerty. i mean i can already do 130 wpm on qwerty and I'll probably get even faster as time goes by, why bother switching
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
AtlaS
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1001 Posts
December 04 2009 23:45 GMT
#23
I feel like it would be sweet to learn Dvorak if everyone else made the transition too. It would suck having to switch your mindset from Dvorak to qwerty everytime you use somebody else's computer
I don't have mono anymore. Woooo!
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
December 04 2009 23:48 GMT
#24
It's really quite easy with windows.

You can use the keyboard toolbar and instantly switch between the two layouts.
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9950 Posts
December 04 2009 23:57 GMT
#25
Can't give you any advice on Dvorak, but I can perfectly type in both QWERTY and AZERTY (a lot of other changes on the keyboard besides the A too). The special characters just take a little more time to get used to, but eventually they don't bother you either.

The biggest problem is with games and shortcuts, that are usually designed for a specific keyboard type.
For example, on Azerty, the L is right next to the M, on the far right side. Whenever I cut short of my M in a TvZ, I lift all my barracks. Oh and the A is in a less convenient position too.

If you switched to Dvorak now, you'd probably get used to typing in it pretty fast, but learning 1a2a3a4a again would take a lot longer, especially to get the same speed/accuracy
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
December 05 2009 00:03 GMT
#26
On December 05 2009 06:56 synapse wrote:
This isnt a thread about Antonín Dvořák? :'(



this
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
mangomango
Profile Joined September 2009
United States265 Posts
December 05 2009 00:07 GMT
#27
On December 05 2009 06:46 inkblot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2009 06:24 Scrixie wrote:
...did he just site wiki? -_-

But ya i tried switching to Dvorak but had the same problem that i was in programming classes in school and would have been to big a hassle.


If you're one of those cool internet guys who thinks Wiki is useless, you could just google QWERTY and find plenty of other sites saying the same thing as Wiki. And I think the word you're looking for is "cite."

Oh, no he didn't!
Husky: Every drone you lose is like a needle in the eye. Nony: probes win $10k (Earn it! Idra Fighting) :P
ChessWhiz
Profile Joined November 2006
United States260 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-05 00:23:01
December 05 2009 00:14 GMT
#28
I typed Qwerty at roughly 70 WPM when I learned Dvorak. I learned it at 90-100 WPM and then started looking even further. I then learned Arensito to about 65 WPM, which was confusing. During that time I was also trying to learn the left-hand-only and right-hand-only Dvorak layouts (got to about 30 WPM with each). Then I tried Colemak, which is my favorite layout. I dropped Dvorak and Arensito, and picked that up instead. I always used Qwerty for SC due to the hotkeys (and it kept my Qwerty skills fresh). I'm now about 80WPM with Qwerty, and 90-100 WPM with Colemak.

tl;dr Visit www.colemak.com and use it for everything but Starcraft (and WSAD games). You can even carry it on a pendrive that auto-loads when you insert it, for use on school computers (read their forums on how to do that). Stick with Qwerty for SC, because Qwerty skills are sometimes needed in the real world.

I use Alt+Shift+1 to switch to Qwerty, Alt+Shift+2 to switch to Colemak. (I don't type Dvorak or Arensito anymore -- no need.)

EDIT: This.

On December 05 2009 08:30 PUPATREE wrote:
if you haven't looked into it, consider the colemak layout. it keeps a lot of normal qwerty shortcut keys, but, like dvorak, feels much nicer to type with. if i had learned colemak instead, i'd probably still be using it.
"chesswhiz aint too bad at all actually" --iNcontroL
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
December 05 2009 00:38 GMT
#29
Thanks. Never heard of colemak before! Looks' awesome.
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
December 05 2009 01:22 GMT
#30
i'm learning how to type on colemak right now! its REALLY good. and the learning cuve is WAY less compared to dvorak. (similarities to the qwerty).
PobTheCad
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Australia893 Posts
December 05 2009 01:23 GMT
#31
why would i mess with 20 years of experience i have with qwerty
people who switch are just trying to be different for the sake of being different , like MAC users
Once again back is the incredible!
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
December 05 2009 01:26 GMT
#32
On December 05 2009 10:23 PobTheCad wrote:
why would i mess with 20 years of experience i have with qwerty
people who switch are just trying to be different for the sake of being different , like MAC users


I don't have time now to learn the Colemak layout
Learning a new keyboard layout is difficult and frustrating during the first few days, but you will reap the benefits every time you type for the rest of your life. You'll need to invest some time at first, but you'll be able to recoup your time investment many times over.
Even if you decide not to learn the layout, I recommend remapping the Caps Lock key to Backspace. That change alone results in a 15%-20% reduction of finger distance on QWERTY. After experiencing the difference perhaps you'll be more motivated to learn an alternative layout.
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
December 05 2009 01:30 GMT
#33
After just an hour of installing Colemak and playing with the typing lessons, I highly reccomend it. I tried learning Dvorak a while back, but it was too radical for me.
Coldlogic
Profile Joined December 2008
United States116 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-05 01:43:39
December 05 2009 01:43 GMT
#34
I am a computer engineer, and i exclusively use dvorak. I switched during a summer break during high school, about 7 years ago, and regained my old speed within 2 weeks.

I noticed a radical difference in the amount i was able to type, as i routinely typed for periods of over 10 hours. My fingers pretty much would not hurt at all, and I wouldn't need to take any breaks. It is NOT A MYTH that qwerty was designed to slow your typing down. It is a MYTH that dvorak is worse than qwerty. There was a study perform, where a rival of Dvorak falsified data to show that qwerty was better, but when question about the data, he said he had destroyed it.

I do agree that there is no scientific data that says dvorak is better over qwerty. This is because no one is jumping up and down to fund such a study. Qwerty was adopted as the standard as computers came into existence, and it isn't economically feasible to switch everyone, so that is why Dvorak has never caught on.

Now, i have a device called a QIDO (QWERTY in Dvorak out), it is a usb plug that goes in between a qwerty keyboard and a computer. It switchs the input of qwerty to be dvorak, so there is no need to change system settings. However, any system allows you to switch in about 3-4 clicks or a quick command line expersion. I needed the QIDO because i work on legacy systems that have DoD lock downs, so it is literally impossible to change the settings.
Mooga
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States575 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-05 01:47:27
December 05 2009 01:45 GMT
#35
I'm typing right now in Dvorak, and I'm probably the only one on TL doing so because there are so few Dvorak users. Anyway, let me preface my experiences by saying that I used qwerty from day 1 like everyone else and I've typed with qwerty and gotten used to qwerty for long time to be able to type at about 80 wpm.

I switched to Dvorak about 2 years ago because I felt that qwerty wasn't that comfortable on my fingers, especially the overuse of the pinky fingers. In my opinion, the qwerty keyboard layout is average, but in some cases it can be terrible. For example, "starcraft" is a pain in the ass to type in qwerty because all of the letters are typed by the left hand. Dvorak utilizes both hands in every single word, allowing you to type slightly faster, but more importantly it is a lot more comfortable to type. To give you another example, the word "the" is so easy and fast to type the the the the the, I could type that all day. I mean, the word "the" isn't that bad to type in qwerty so maybe it's a bad example, but typing "the" in Dvorak is so fluid and natural. When I was using qwerty, I remember some words that I found annoying to type. Conversely, I can't really think of any examples of words that I find annoying to type in Dvorak.

One day, I decided to switch to Dvorak from qwerty. I remapped my keys and started memorizing the new layout. The first week was painfully slow for me, I had to consciously think of every single letter and I felt like a retard when typing through aim cuz I was typing at like 10 wpm. I made quick progress though, because the Dvorak layout is surprisingly easy to learn. I'm pretty sure that any given person could type faster in Dvorak if they were given the Dvorak layout and the qwerty layout and the same amount of time to learn both. It probably took me a month and a half to forget qwerty and relearn everything, at which point I probably equaled my previous qwerty typing speed. Since then, I've surpassed my qwerty typing speed, and I'm sitting at about 95 wpm.

Cons:
The biggest con to switching to Dvorak is that hardly anyone uses it. That means you have to use qwerty when you're using someone else's computer unless you temporarily remap their keys.

Another disadvantage is when you are playing games. A lot of games like starcraft have hotkeys based on the qwerty keyboard, so I sometimes get confused and press the wrong keys because I've forgotten the qwerty layout.

Relearning keyboard layout.

Pros:
It's more comfortable. I could type for days and not feel any pain with Dvorak.

There also probably is a small typing speed advantage, but if you switch, do not switch based on speed alone... it's probably not worth it.

The "j" key isn't in a dumb place on the keyboard. What were they thinking when they put it directly under the right pointer finger? (in Dvorak, "j" is placed where "c" is in qwerty)

It makes it impossible for someone to look at your hands to guess your password... :D


P.S. If you do switch, DO NOT take out the keys on your keyboard. Just leave it as qwerty for reference in case you are forced to use qwerty or if someone else needs to use your computer. Also, this forces you to memorize the Dvorak layout which allows you to learn faster and forces you to not look at the keyboard. Again, this will be a pain in the ass for the first couple weeks, but it's definitely the way to go.

Edit: ^ looks like I was wrong about me being the only person on here using Dvorak D:
gaizka
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States991 Posts
December 05 2009 01:54 GMT
#36
On December 05 2009 06:56 synapse wrote:
This isnt a thread about Antonín Dvořák? :'(



I feel your pain. Although I'm now interested in the layout.
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
December 05 2009 01:59 GMT
#37
What's wrong with the Dvorak layout?

The main problem with Dvorak is that it's too difficult and frustrating to learn for existing QWERTY typists because it's so different from QWERTY. Colemak has been designed to be easy to learn.
Placing 'L' on the QWERTY 'P' position causes excessive strain on the right pinky. Colemak doesn't place frequent letters where the pinkies stretch.

'F' is on the QWERTY 'Y' position which is a difficult stretch on normal keyboards.
'I' is very frequent but isn't on the home position.
'R' is very frequent but isn't on the home row.
It is significantly lopsided so that the right hand does too much work.
It's not comfortable to use Ctrl-Z/X/C/V shortcuts with the left hand while holding the mouse with the right hand. Colemak conserves those shortcuts in their QWERTY positions.
Even though the design principles are sound, the implementation isn't optimal because it was designed without the aid of computers.
'L' and 'S' form a frequent same-finger digraph on the right pinky. Same-finger for the pinky is very rare in Colemak. In particular, Unix commands such as 'ls -l' are very uncomfortable to type.
Some punctuation (in particular the curly/square brackets) is less comfortable to type on Dvorak. This affects mainly programmers and advanced Unix users.
FortuneSyn
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1826 Posts
December 05 2009 02:00 GMT
#38
I seriously do not comprehend the concept of how someone would want to relearn something they already know how to do, that is never gonna be standardized, just so their fingers are less tired and maybe get a little faster speed???? Honestly man, we fucking play starcraft nonstop slamming our fingers all over the damn place and u want to make ur fingers more comfortable?!?!? The only way i see it being remotely worthwhile is if you are a secretary. Kudos to you for going all the way in your career.
terr13
Profile Joined April 2007
United States298 Posts
December 05 2009 02:00 GMT
#39
You're not the only one typing in Dvorak... and I do agree it takes some dedication and time to learn it.
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
December 05 2009 02:08 GMT
#40
On December 05 2009 11:00 FortuneSyn wrote:
I seriously do not comprehend the concept of how someone would want to relearn something they already know how to do, that is never gonna be standardized, just so their fingers are less tired and maybe get a little faster speed???? Honestly man, we fucking play starcraft nonstop slamming our fingers all over the damn place and u want to make ur fingers more comfortable?!?!? The only way i see it being remotely worthwhile is if you are a secretary. Kudos to you for going all the way in your career.


Nice post, troll.

Some people are interested in life hacks.

It's like re-learning how to play Bisu build from the usualy one gate builds. If there's a better way of doing something, then some people are interested in it. If not, then meh.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 41m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft500
ProTech129
EnDerr 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2623
GuemChi 1770
Noble 37
ajuk12(nOOB) 18
Icarus 6
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm216
League of Legends
JimRising 804
Counter-Strike
taco 372
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King98
Other Games
summit1g5186
Coldzera 1158
PiGStarcraft507
Livibee128
Maynarde91
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 32
• Azhi_Dahaki6
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1132
• Stunt316
Other Games
• Scarra1089
Upcoming Events
GSL
6h 41m
OSC
8h 41m
PiGosaur Cup
19h 41m
Kung Fu Cup
1d 6h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
The PondCast
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
OSC
5 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
RSL Revival: Season 6
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.