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i learned dvorak, but eventually went back to qwerty.
don't bother buying a dvorak keyboard, at least not until you really like it. for now, just remap your keys. if you use other keyboards (school computer, friend's computer, etc), expect to use qwerty on them.
i personally never had any trouble or speedloss when i had to use qwerty again, but until i became comfortable with dvorak, every switch slowed down my learning and discouraged me.
the two biggest reasons i gave up on making the permanent switch were 1. i couldn't stand my ctrl+zxcv being all over the keyboard (although there are 3rd party remapping programs to get around that), and 2. i generally do one-handed typing when browsing, and i disliked how it felt on the normal dvorak layout.
if you haven't looked into it, consider the colemak layout. it keeps a lot of normal qwerty shortcut keys, but, like dvorak, feels much nicer to type with. if i had learned colemak instead, i'd probably still be using it.
switching layouts isn't for everyone. the experience that someone's friend had may be completely different from the one you will have. your fingers will move around on the keyboard significantly less, and typing will generally feel better, but you shouldn't expect an increase in how fast you type. Godspeed.
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I tried Dvorak, never really got used to it,and went back to qwerty. i mean i can already do 130 wpm on qwerty and I'll probably get even faster as time goes by, why bother switching
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I feel like it would be sweet to learn Dvorak if everyone else made the transition too. It would suck having to switch your mindset from Dvorak to qwerty everytime you use somebody else's computer
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It's really quite easy with windows.
You can use the keyboard toolbar and instantly switch between the two layouts.
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Belgium9947 Posts
Can't give you any advice on Dvorak, but I can perfectly type in both QWERTY and AZERTY (a lot of other changes on the keyboard besides the A too). The special characters just take a little more time to get used to, but eventually they don't bother you either.
The biggest problem is with games and shortcuts, that are usually designed for a specific keyboard type.
For example, on Azerty, the L is right next to the M, on the far right side. Whenever I cut short of my M in a TvZ, I lift all my barracks. Oh and the A is in a less convenient position too.
If you switched to Dvorak now, you'd probably get used to typing in it pretty fast, but learning 1a2a3a4a again would take a lot longer, especially to get the same speed/accuracy
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On December 05 2009 06:56 synapse wrote:
This isnt a thread about Antonín Dvořák? :'(
this
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On December 05 2009 06:46 inkblot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2009 06:24 Scrixie wrote:
...did he just site wiki? -_-
But ya i tried switching to Dvorak but had the same problem that i was in programming classes in school and would have been to big a hassle. If you're one of those cool internet guys who thinks Wiki is useless, you could just google QWERTY and find plenty of other sites saying the same thing as Wiki. And I think the word you're looking for is "cite."
Oh, no he didn't!
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I typed Qwerty at roughly 70 WPM when I learned Dvorak. I learned it at 90-100 WPM and then started looking even further. I then learned Arensito to about 65 WPM, which was confusing. During that time I was also trying to learn the left-hand-only and right-hand-only Dvorak layouts (got to about 30 WPM with each). Then I tried Colemak, which is my favorite layout. I dropped Dvorak and Arensito, and picked that up instead. I always used Qwerty for SC due to the hotkeys (and it kept my Qwerty skills fresh). I'm now about 80WPM with Qwerty, and 90-100 WPM with Colemak.
tl;dr Visit www.colemak.com and use it for everything but Starcraft (and WSAD games). You can even carry it on a pendrive that auto-loads when you insert it, for use on school computers (read their forums on how to do that). Stick with Qwerty for SC, because Qwerty skills are sometimes needed in the real world.
I use Alt+Shift+1 to switch to Qwerty, Alt+Shift+2 to switch to Colemak. (I don't type Dvorak or Arensito anymore -- no need.)
EDIT: This.
On December 05 2009 08:30 PUPATREE wrote:
if you haven't looked into it, consider the colemak layout. it keeps a lot of normal qwerty shortcut keys, but, like dvorak, feels much nicer to type with. if i had learned colemak instead, i'd probably still be using it.
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Thanks. Never heard of colemak before! Looks' awesome.
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i'm learning how to type on colemak right now! its REALLY good. and the learning cuve is WAY less compared to dvorak. (similarities to the qwerty).
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why would i mess with 20 years of experience i have with qwerty
people who switch are just trying to be different for the sake of being different , like MAC users
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On December 05 2009 10:23 PobTheCad wrote:
why would i mess with 20 years of experience i have with qwerty
people who switch are just trying to be different for the sake of being different , like MAC users
I don't have time now to learn the Colemak layout
Learning a new keyboard layout is difficult and frustrating during the first few days, but you will reap the benefits every time you type for the rest of your life. You'll need to invest some time at first, but you'll be able to recoup your time investment many times over.
Even if you decide not to learn the layout, I recommend remapping the Caps Lock key to Backspace. That change alone results in a 15%-20% reduction of finger distance on QWERTY. After experiencing the difference perhaps you'll be more motivated to learn an alternative layout.
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After just an hour of installing Colemak and playing with the typing lessons, I highly reccomend it. I tried learning Dvorak a while back, but it was too radical for me.
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I am a computer engineer, and i exclusively use dvorak. I switched during a summer break during high school, about 7 years ago, and regained my old speed within 2 weeks.
I noticed a radical difference in the amount i was able to type, as i routinely typed for periods of over 10 hours. My fingers pretty much would not hurt at all, and I wouldn't need to take any breaks. It is NOT A MYTH that qwerty was designed to slow your typing down. It is a MYTH that dvorak is worse than qwerty. There was a study perform, where a rival of Dvorak falsified data to show that qwerty was better, but when question about the data, he said he had destroyed it.
I do agree that there is no scientific data that says dvorak is better over qwerty. This is because no one is jumping up and down to fund such a study. Qwerty was adopted as the standard as computers came into existence, and it isn't economically feasible to switch everyone, so that is why Dvorak has never caught on.
Now, i have a device called a QIDO (QWERTY in Dvorak out), it is a usb plug that goes in between a qwerty keyboard and a computer. It switchs the input of qwerty to be dvorak, so there is no need to change system settings. However, any system allows you to switch in about 3-4 clicks or a quick command line expersion. I needed the QIDO because i work on legacy systems that have DoD lock downs, so it is literally impossible to change the settings.
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I'm typing right now in Dvorak, and I'm probably the only one on TL doing so because there are so few Dvorak users. Anyway, let me preface my experiences by saying that I used qwerty from day 1 like everyone else and I've typed with qwerty and gotten used to qwerty for long time to be able to type at about 80 wpm.
I switched to Dvorak about 2 years ago because I felt that qwerty wasn't that comfortable on my fingers, especially the overuse of the pinky fingers. In my opinion, the qwerty keyboard layout is average, but in some cases it can be terrible. For example, "starcraft" is a pain in the ass to type in qwerty because all of the letters are typed by the left hand. Dvorak utilizes both hands in every single word, allowing you to type slightly faster, but more importantly it is a lot more comfortable to type. To give you another example, the word "the" is so easy and fast to type the the the the the, I could type that all day. I mean, the word "the" isn't that bad to type in qwerty so maybe it's a bad example, but typing "the" in Dvorak is so fluid and natural. When I was using qwerty, I remember some words that I found annoying to type. Conversely, I can't really think of any examples of words that I find annoying to type in Dvorak.
One day, I decided to switch to Dvorak from qwerty. I remapped my keys and started memorizing the new layout. The first week was painfully slow for me, I had to consciously think of every single letter and I felt like a retard when typing through aim cuz I was typing at like 10 wpm. I made quick progress though, because the Dvorak layout is surprisingly easy to learn. I'm pretty sure that any given person could type faster in Dvorak if they were given the Dvorak layout and the qwerty layout and the same amount of time to learn both. It probably took me a month and a half to forget qwerty and relearn everything, at which point I probably equaled my previous qwerty typing speed. Since then, I've surpassed my qwerty typing speed, and I'm sitting at about 95 wpm.
Cons:
The biggest con to switching to Dvorak is that hardly anyone uses it. That means you have to use qwerty when you're using someone else's computer unless you temporarily remap their keys.
Another disadvantage is when you are playing games. A lot of games like starcraft have hotkeys based on the qwerty keyboard, so I sometimes get confused and press the wrong keys because I've forgotten the qwerty layout.
Relearning keyboard layout.
Pros:
It's more comfortable. I could type for days and not feel any pain with Dvorak.
There also probably is a small typing speed advantage, but if you switch, do not switch based on speed alone... it's probably not worth it.
The "j" key isn't in a dumb place on the keyboard. What were they thinking when they put it directly under the right pointer finger? (in Dvorak, "j" is placed where "c" is in qwerty)
It makes it impossible for someone to look at your hands to guess your password... :D
P.S. If you do switch, DO NOT take out the keys on your keyboard. Just leave it as qwerty for reference in case you are forced to use qwerty or if someone else needs to use your computer. Also, this forces you to memorize the Dvorak layout which allows you to learn faster and forces you to not look at the keyboard. Again, this will be a pain in the ass for the first couple weeks, but it's definitely the way to go.
Edit: ^ looks like I was wrong about me being the only person on here using Dvorak D:
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On December 05 2009 06:56 synapse wrote:
This isnt a thread about Antonín Dvořák? :'(
I feel your pain. Although I'm now interested in the layout.
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What's wrong with the Dvorak layout?
The main problem with Dvorak is that it's too difficult and frustrating to learn for existing QWERTY typists because it's so different from QWERTY. Colemak has been designed to be easy to learn.
Placing 'L' on the QWERTY 'P' position causes excessive strain on the right pinky. Colemak doesn't place frequent letters where the pinkies stretch.
'F' is on the QWERTY 'Y' position which is a difficult stretch on normal keyboards.
'I' is very frequent but isn't on the home position.
'R' is very frequent but isn't on the home row.
It is significantly lopsided so that the right hand does too much work.
It's not comfortable to use Ctrl-Z/X/C/V shortcuts with the left hand while holding the mouse with the right hand. Colemak conserves those shortcuts in their QWERTY positions.
Even though the design principles are sound, the implementation isn't optimal because it was designed without the aid of computers.
'L' and 'S' form a frequent same-finger digraph on the right pinky. Same-finger for the pinky is very rare in Colemak. In particular, Unix commands such as 'ls -l' are very uncomfortable to type.
Some punctuation (in particular the curly/square brackets) is less comfortable to type on Dvorak. This affects mainly programmers and advanced Unix users.
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I seriously do not comprehend the concept of how someone would want to relearn something they already know how to do, that is never gonna be standardized, just so their fingers are less tired and maybe get a little faster speed???? Honestly man, we fucking play starcraft nonstop slamming our fingers all over the damn place and u want to make ur fingers more comfortable?!?!? The only way i see it being remotely worthwhile is if you are a secretary. Kudos to you for going all the way in your career.
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You're not the only one typing in Dvorak... and I do agree it takes some dedication and time to learn it.
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On December 05 2009 11:00 FortuneSyn wrote:
I seriously do not comprehend the concept of how someone would want to relearn something they already know how to do, that is never gonna be standardized, just so their fingers are less tired and maybe get a little faster speed???? Honestly man, we fucking play starcraft nonstop slamming our fingers all over the damn place and u want to make ur fingers more comfortable?!?!? The only way i see it being remotely worthwhile is if you are a secretary. Kudos to you for going all the way in your career.
Nice post, troll.
Some people are interested in life hacks.
It's like re-learning how to play Bisu build from the usualy one gate builds. If there's a better way of doing something, then some people are interested in it. If not, then meh.
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EPT
