|
to the OP (my internet connection crashed right after I opened this thread)
This is shameful that this reffereundum was actually passed. I didnt vote against it (dont have that power yet) but I would have. I mean, I'd see these propaganda posters saying "NON'" with red and black-clad burka-women (like in the OP) and was surprised that it was even an issue, how could this have actually happened.
But there was really a LOT of posters about this one, we vote on everything and I've never seen so many posters (or maybe I just noticed them more because they were even worse than UDC posters)
I'm ashamed of Switzerland, really. Banning minarets is like banning church steeples, its pointless, stupid and angers the offended party. Its not like the west needs any more source of conflict with the east, we already have enough issues we cant really agree on. Whats sad is that Switzerland, the country banning minarets (a big F*** you to the Muslim community), is ""neural""
|
Sweden is the best country ever.
|
On November 30 2009 09:24 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:23 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:18 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:59 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:58 koreasilver wrote:
How could anyone possibly think Muslim extremists have more power and influence than the Western world? Even if the Western powers are starting to lose grip of their absolute power over the world slowly, they still are, with no doubt, the greatest powers in the world still.
I mean, if these Muslim extremists had more power and influence than anyone else in the world, why would they have split and ran when America started the war? Guerrilla warfare and terrorism is practiced by the weaker side in asymmetrical warfare. The Western world is not run by religious extremists. That has nothing to do with what my post was about. You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this. Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well. But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway. Just... no. Do some research on the history of the Middle East for the past 50 years and come back. Do some research on your own country and come back. Also, take a logic course.
Does everyone on TL turn into douchebags during debates?
|
On December 01 2009 06:14 keepITup wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:24 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:23 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:18 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:59 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:58 koreasilver wrote:
How could anyone possibly think Muslim extremists have more power and influence than the Western world? Even if the Western powers are starting to lose grip of their absolute power over the world slowly, they still are, with no doubt, the greatest powers in the world still.
I mean, if these Muslim extremists had more power and influence than anyone else in the world, why would they have split and ran when America started the war? Guerrilla warfare and terrorism is practiced by the weaker side in asymmetrical warfare. The Western world is not run by religious extremists. That has nothing to do with what my post was about. You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this. Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well. But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway. Just... no. Do some research on the history of the Middle East for the past 50 years and come back. Do some research on your own country and come back. Also, take a logic course. Does everyone on TL turn into douchebags during debates?
Just ignore him, he's an infantile, yet arrogant poster. Just give him some time to mature, we don't all start as enlightened genii.
On December 01 2009 06:13 bITt.mAN wrote:
to the OP (my internet connection crashed right after I opened this thread)
This is shameful that this reffereundum was actually passed. I didnt vote against it (dont have that power yet) but I would have. I mean, I'd see these propaganda posters saying "NON'" with red and black-clad burka-women (like in the OP) and was surprised that it was even an issue, how could this have actually happened.
But there was really a LOT of posters about this one, we vote on everything and I've never seen so many posters (or maybe I just noticed them more because they were even worse than UDC posters)
I'm ashamed of Switzerland, really. Banning minarets is like banning church steeples, its pointless, stupid and angers the offended party. Its not like the west needs any more source of conflict with the east, we already have enough issues we cant really agree on. Whats sad is that Switzerland, the country banning minarets (a big F*** you to the Muslim community), is ""neural""
Yes. It's very sad that Switzerland is "neural". Do you even know what a minaret does?
|
On December 01 2009 05:45 Foucault wrote:
Klackon, I'm not sure what you're ranting about but most of your post strays away from the subject quite alot. Also some things are just wrong. For instance the student loans (CSN) in Sweden do not have good interest, actually it's more like a rip-off that you ALSO have to pay back every dime of including said interest. The problem with Sweden is that we rely too heavily on a socialized society where people are heavily bound down by taxes. Essentially people who work hard pay alot of money for lazy bums smoking weed in the projects. While some social security and welfare is a good thing, too much isn't.
Also you really throw words around quite carelessly. You talk about young arabs and Islam as if they were two different things which they are not. Many of these young arabas are very much muslims and not assimilated at all in the Swedish society. They are harassing their sisters, and having a fucked up attitude towards the swedish society.
Your discourse about people bashing on outsiders in hard times is of course a way to understand and justify some opinions for PC people. There are also reasons, the fact that Islam is a oppressive and medieval religion, that aren't about alienating outsiders because of the economy but about the fact that Islam and their values and teachings spreads. Yeah Islam is very much a threat to our culture if that threat is about their fucked up view of women, homosexuality and disobediance towards Allah. I don't understand how you justify this?
We were supposed to be long past religions like Islam and Christianity, a long time ago.
Also, do yourself a favor if you respond and don't construct me as a racist or nationalist because I'm not. I'm attacking Islams teachings because they strike me as oppressive and wrong.
My post was attacking your notion that the problems in current Swedish society stems from the presence of Arabs and not the fact that lazy young Swedes refuse to grow up and start working. And yes I think the CSN interest rates can be considered “nice” since the loans are given to people without jobs OR assets.
No I don’t throw around words carelessly, if you believe that the majority of young Swedish Arabs are religious in any meaningful sense of the word I would say you are ignorant. Not that it matters, them sitting on their lazy assess complaining that the state doesn’t give them work is a _Swedish_ thing not an Arab one. The sense of entitlement that so many young Swedes seem to have is downright disgusting, and it is not particularly surprising that it’s the bad parts of our culture that get’s absorbed first, most people are like that.
Rofl at you calling me PC while at the same time vigorously repeating the mantra “I am not racist, I just think Islam sucks”. I don’t care what you define yourself as, the fact that you seek the cause for our problems in other people is disgusting. And as I said, it’s been done before, with not so pleasant results.
|
On December 01 2009 06:10 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2009 04:46 Foucault wrote:On December 01 2009 04:29 Boonbag wrote:
sad I don't know what bubble you live in but I guess you haven't seen that much of Islam first hand. Maybe I actually did ? And lived for a while with muslims ?
Oh, do tell. And you're a man, which makes you so much "better" in their eyes.
|
|
|
On December 01 2009 06:23 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2009 06:10 Boonbag wrote:On December 01 2009 04:46 Foucault wrote:On December 01 2009 04:29 Boonbag wrote:
sad I don't know what bubble you live in but I guess you haven't seen that much of Islam first hand. Maybe I actually did ? And lived for a while with muslims ? Oh, do tell. And you're a man, which makes you so much "better" in their eyes.
Btw you really should low down on the stereotypes.
|
So it seems like in Europe there is no difference made between islam and radical islam? Here in U.S. people only go after radical islam which is a very small minority of total muslims
|
On December 01 2009 06:14 keepITup wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:24 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:23 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:18 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:59 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:58 koreasilver wrote:
How could anyone possibly think Muslim extremists have more power and influence than the Western world? Even if the Western powers are starting to lose grip of their absolute power over the world slowly, they still are, with no doubt, the greatest powers in the world still.
I mean, if these Muslim extremists had more power and influence than anyone else in the world, why would they have split and ran when America started the war? Guerrilla warfare and terrorism is practiced by the weaker side in asymmetrical warfare. The Western world is not run by religious extremists. That has nothing to do with what my post was about. You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this. Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well. But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway. Just... no. Do some research on the history of the Middle East for the past 50 years and come back. Do some research on your own country and come back. Also, take a logic course. Does everyone on TL turn into douchebags during debates?
If someone completely refuses to read your post and actually reply back with substance continuously, you do tend to just give up on them.
On December 01 2009 06:19 ghostWriter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2009 06:14 keepITup wrote:On November 30 2009 09:24 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:23 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:18 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:59 jalstar wrote:
[quote]
The Western world is not run by religious extremists. That has nothing to do with what my post was about. You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this. Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well. But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway. Just... no. Do some research on the history of the Middle East for the past 50 years and come back. Do some research on your own country and come back. Also, take a logic course. Does everyone on TL turn into douchebags during debates? Just ignore him, he's an infantile, yet arrogant poster. Just give him some time to mature, we don't all start as enlightened genii. Show nested quote +On December 01 2009 06:13 bITt.mAN wrote:
to the OP (my internet connection crashed right after I opened this thread)
This is shameful that this reffereundum was actually passed. I didnt vote against it (dont have that power yet) but I would have. I mean, I'd see these propaganda posters saying "NON'" with red and black-clad burka-women (like in the OP) and was surprised that it was even an issue, how could this have actually happened.
But there was really a LOT of posters about this one, we vote on everything and I've never seen so many posters (or maybe I just noticed them more because they were even worse than UDC posters)
I'm ashamed of Switzerland, really. Banning minarets is like banning church steeples, its pointless, stupid and angers the offended party. Its not like the west needs any more source of conflict with the east, we already have enough issues we cant really agree on. Whats sad is that Switzerland, the country banning minarets (a big F*** you to the Muslim community), is ""neural""
Yes. It's very sad that Switzerland is "neural". Do you even know what a minaret does?
Aren't you the one that started raging at me over PMs because you completely made a fool of yourself in this thread? Also, have you completely glossed over the posts that said the four minarets in Switzerland are not used to call for prayer?
|
On December 01 2009 06:29 BlackJack wrote:
So it seems like in Europe there is no difference made between islam and radical islam? Here in U.S. people only go after radical islam which is a very small minority of total muslims
Fascists in Europe try to make the population believe charia will be voted by the deputees 2 years from now in every country !
|
On December 01 2009 06:29 BlackJack wrote:
So it seems like in Europe there is no difference made between islam and radical islam? Here in U.S. people only go after radical islam which is a very small minority of total muslims
You must not live in Real America.
|
On one hand I disagree with the Muslim ideology, on the other hand I think that outright banning something (because the religion is outdated and unjust) is super hypocritical and is born from fear-mongering. I would prefer to just let religion slowly faze out the normal way.
|
On December 01 2009 06:29 BlackJack wrote:
So it seems like in Europe there is no difference made between islam and radical islam? Here in U.S. people only go after radical islam which is a very small minority of total muslims
I think the only reason people can tolerate each other's religions today is because no one actually truly follows one correctly.
I think I've only met one person in my life who actually followed the bible -- he was a terrible human being.
So when I hear about radicals, I just think, "oh wow, people out there still take religion seriously?"
of course every chrisitan I meet might have their own deep and though out personal interpretation of their religion -- but i really don't care. for whatever reason they are changing their religion to fit modern society so it really doesn't negatively affect me.
|
On December 01 2009 06:29 BlackJack wrote:
So it seems like in Europe there is no difference made between islam and radical islam? Here in U.S. people only go after radical islam which is a very small minority of total muslims
It was in a futile attempt to not make people think this I made those angry posts :p
But in the end a lot of people around here do seem to have an aversion towards muslims in general (or actually arabs, they don't really care about the difference). It is a bit sad.
I guess americans have more experience with dealing with a huge influx of "alien" culture.
|
On December 01 2009 06:19 KlaCkoN wrote:
My post was attacking your notion that the problems in current Swedish society stems from the presence of Arabs and not the fact that lazy young Swedes refuse to grow up and start working. And yes I think the CSN interest rates can be considered “nice” since the loans are given to people without jobs OR assets.
Surely, some Swedish youth aren't "growing up" with the speed you'd want them to. Grow up to what exactly? And how is studying and traveling the world a bad thing? Doesn't it help us understand different cultures better?
Yeah, loans. CSN doesn't give out money, it's student loans that you're supposed to pay back in a timely fashion. It's a good thing though that people can loan money in order to succeed with their studies. However I would like to see more people work part time jobs and studying instead of loaning money. The reason it's like this though is because of the social democrats and left-wing parties have set it up like that. There's no incentive to find work when you can collect 10 000 ($1500) SEK/month from A-kassa (the unemployment office) like my friend did.
On December 01 2009 06:19 KlaCkoN wrote:
No I don’t throw around words carelessly, if you believe that the majority of young Swedish Arabs are religious in any meaningful sense of the word I would say you are ignorant. Not that it matters, them sitting on their lazy assess complaining that the state doesn’t give them work is a _Swedish_ thing not an Arab one. The sense of entitlement that so many young Swedes seem to have is downright disgusting, and it is not particularly surprising that it’s the bad parts of our culture that get’s absorbed first, most people are like that.
They are religious in the sense that they have been brought up in religious families and therefore have internalized their values through socialization. Maybe not every young arab is actively religious but they get it at home ALL the time, and they are at least largely influenced by Islam. It's a swedish thing to take on so many immigrants without ever putting down the foot, and also putting them in the projects (miljonprojekt), effectively creating ghettos. What's up with that? It's like asking for problems. I agee that it's a swedish thing to complain about having no work but arabs in Rosengard don't give a fuck about the swedish society. If you call them assimilated I would like to hear your definition of what "assimilation" is.
On December 01 2009 06:19 KlaCkoN wrote:
Rofl at you calling me PC while at the same time vigorously repeating the mantra “I am not racist, I just think Islam sucks”. I don’t care what you define yourself as, the fact that you seek the cause for our problems in other people is disgusting. And as I said, it’s been done before, with not so pleasant results.
Yeah I said that because swedes are usually so fast to jump the gun and place you in the racist category. I don't think I repeated anything vigorously, I just mentioned it. Also it's not a mantra. A mantra would be a sound like "ohm" commonly used in Buddhist/hindu meditation. And how is saying Islam sucks PC? I'm seeking the cause of the worlds problems in religion and Islam still sucks. I could care less about Sweden since I'm probably gonna move soon anyways, so I don't really care about our small country. My perspective is global, and I notice you're still trying to put me in a comfortable category.
Answer me this: Why respect a religion (Islam) that doesn't respect other religions or women?
|
On December 01 2009 06:35 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2009 06:29 BlackJack wrote:
So it seems like in Europe there is no difference made between islam and radical islam? Here in U.S. people only go after radical islam which is a very small minority of total muslims You must not live in Real America.
Yeah seriously, are you kidding me? America is probably worse about this than any other country. We're fighting two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and for what?
On December 01 2009 06:38 KlaCkoN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2009 06:29 BlackJack wrote:
So it seems like in Europe there is no difference made between islam and radical islam? Here in U.S. people only go after radical islam which is a very small minority of total muslims It was in a futile attempt to not make people think this I made those angry posts :p But in the end a lot of people around here do seem to have an aversion towards muslims in general (or actually arabs, they don't really care about the difference). It is a bit sad. I guess americans have more experience with dealing with a huge influx of "alien" culture.
HAHAHAHAHA
Are you kidding me? Every new group that comes to America gets discriminated against.
|
On December 01 2009 06:27 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2009 06:23 Foucault wrote:On December 01 2009 06:10 Boonbag wrote:On December 01 2009 04:46 Foucault wrote:On December 01 2009 04:29 Boonbag wrote:
sad I don't know what bubble you live in but I guess you haven't seen that much of Islam first hand. Maybe I actually did ? And lived for a while with muslims ? Oh, do tell. And you're a man, which makes you so much "better" in their eyes. Btw you really should low down on the stereotypes.
I wish I was stereotyping, I'm not. While some muslims in the west are muuuch more liberal than muslims in the arab world, many muslim women are oppressed by a sickening degree.
|
On December 01 2009 06:29 BlackJack wrote:
So it seems like in Europe there is no difference made between islam and radical islam? Here in U.S. people only go after radical islam which is a very small minority of total muslims
If "radical" is flying airplanes into buildings and suicide bombing in general, then no of course all muslims aren't like this. But there is a disturbingly large middle ground of muslims who are pretty hardcore in their views although they aren't the worst kind.
Good luck finding alot of secularized muslims in the arab world. Hell, even their leaders are strictly religious.
|
That's true, yet, I assure you that the wife beating rate is still very high in non muslim homes in europe, if not higher.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
