EPTHeroes of Newerth(dota remake) beta keys - Page 7
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omninmo
2349 Posts
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On July 25 2009 18:54 Rakanishu2 wrote:stuff Call me old fashioned. No, you're totally right, this game suffers from massive interface design flaws that shouldn't exist in such a fast-paced game. Despite WC3 looking kind of dated today, the interface, being made by blizzard, is naturally as close to perfection as it gets. The only way to improve it is to let players buy complete items instead of having to assemble every bracer from 3 parts in 3 different shops. Voices are generally a non-issue, since they are annoying in WC3 also, when you listen to them for the 1000th time, so you just turn those off. Perhaps the problem of the game is that it's a little bit TOO detailed, substituting good design for tiny fluff that hurts the eyes. | ||
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
On July 25 2009 12:06 Ace wrote: 200 games isn't a lot, whats your point :/ Or are you going to say you barely played that many games and thats why you can't learn the recipes and then I get to hit you with the no shit sherlock? No, I'm saying that any UI that needs you to play over 200 games is a bad UI. | ||
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
On July 25 2009 21:07 Sadistx wrote: No, you're totally right, this game suffers from massive interface design flaws that shouldn't exist in such a fast-paced game. Despite WC3 looking kind of dated today, the interface, being made by blizzard, is naturally as close to perfection as it gets. The only way to improve it is to let players buy complete items instead of having to assemble every bracer from 3 parts in 3 different shops. Voices are generally a non-issue, since they are annoying in WC3 also, when you listen to them for the 1000th time, so you just turn those off. Perhaps the problem of the game is that it's a little bit TOO detailed, substituting good design for tiny fluff that hurts the eyes. Not really, there's ton of info missing in the WC3 UI. For exemple. In HoN you can hover your mouse over your attack and you can see how much raw attack speed value you character has, and how much attack per second he can do. Hover over your HP bar and you can see how much HP/sec you are gaining. Same thing for the MP bar (so you can very easily see if, say, arcane ring would be better or a 100% mana regen). Your speed is actually a stat you can see as clearly as your HP, so you can always see you speed on the fly (like how much speed you gain/lose from blood seeker's skill, how much you gain from phase boot, you see it all changing on the go). There's also the magic resistance/armor % which isn't shown in wc3 IIRC. You can also show the exp value you gain from monster when you kill them (exactly like gold, only purple), so you clearly and easily judge the limit at which you will gain exp from creeps. I bitched a lot about the UI in the beginning too, but after a couple games under my belt I came to realize it's only because I'm playing wc3 since 2002, it's normal I'm expecting everything to be where I'm used for it to be. | ||
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gEzUS
Canada371 Posts
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lololol
5198 Posts
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namufot
United States18 Posts
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3474 Posts
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On July 25 2009 21:44 Shade692003 wrote: Not really, there's ton of info missing in the WC3 UI. For exemple. In HoN you can hover your mouse over your attack and you can see how much raw attack speed value you character has, and how much attack per second he can do. Hover over your HP bar and you can see how much HP/sec you are gaining. Same thing for the MP bar (so you can very easily see if, say, arcane ring would be better or a 100% mana regen). Your speed is actually a stat you can see as clearly as your HP, so you can always see you speed on the fly (like how much speed you gain/lose from blood seeker's skill, how much you gain from phase boot, you see it all changing on the go). There's also the magic resistance/armor % which isn't shown in wc3 IIRC. You can also show the exp value you gain from monster when you kill them (exactly like gold, only purple), so you clearly and easily judge the limit at which you will gain exp from creeps. I bitched a lot about the UI in the beginning too, but after a couple games under my belt I came to realize it's only because I'm playing wc3 since 2002, it's normal I'm expecting everything to be where I'm used for it to be. Well, you're wrong, because none of that info is actually useful for a beginner anyway. What does 0.753 attack per second mean to a scrub/newbie? Nothing. That info is actually a very good example of clutter they decided to put into the interface. Dota handles it nicely by having commands that make all the info available on demand without making the interface look like WoW garbage (not that im saying HoN has wow interface). I guess what I'm trying to say is even if you have all the mechanics info available on your screen, it's not going to help you have better game sense, or last hitting or orbwalking, etc. The WC3 design/interface is still easier on the eyes and has the most essential information available for players. The lack of super-detailed mechanics data on WC3's interface does not make it inferior in any way. I mean I can see where you're coming from, you're probably tired of WC3, so you want something new, but new isn't necessarily better. Granted, I do like HoN's lobby interface - very streamlined and polished. So lastly, yes people will adapt, but the point is - there was absolutely no reason to take a perfect interface and fuck with it. | ||
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
On July 26 2009 00:05 Sadistx wrote: Well, you're wrong, because none of that info is actually useful for a beginner anyway. What does 0.753 attack per second mean to a scrub/newbie? Nothing. That info is actually a very good example of clutter they decided to put into the interface. Dota handles it nicely by having commands that make all the info available on demand without making the interface look like WoW garbage (not that im saying HoN has wow interface). I guess what I'm trying to say is even if you have all the mechanics info available on your screen, it's not going to help you have better game sense, or last hitting or orbwalking, etc. The WC3 design/interface is still easier on the eyes and has the most essential information available for players. The lack of super-detailed mechanics data on WC3's interface does not make it inferior in any way. I mean I can see where you're coming from, you're probably tired of WC3, so you want something new, but new isn't necessarily better. Granted, I do like HoN's lobby interface - very streamlined and polished. So lastly, yes people will adapt, but the point is - there was absolutely no reason to take a perfect interface and fuck with it. 'Perfect Interface', Hahaha. Dota was never a perfect interface, it was and always will be limited to the wc3 engine. It limits what controls can be given to the players, it limits what can be done with heroes. There is definitely room for improvement and so they tried to improve it. The argument can only be that the changes they made were not for the better (which I don't necessarily agree with, but I understand the concerns), not that 'Dota was perfect there was 0 room for improvement'. A lot of your complaints are offset by the fact that this game is clearly not designed for 'new' players. It's pretty much designed for competitive play. Eg: your spell icons are small and blurry because you're not meant to click them. It's really not important what they look like. You learn very quickly which spell is which just by hovering, and then you use q w e r for all spells and then alt q w e a s d for items. I can see that the game is definitely not newb friendly, but I don't see why it should be. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
 perfect! | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On July 25 2009 21:34 Shade692003 wrote: No, I'm saying that any UI that needs you to play over 200 games is a bad UI. and what I was trying to point out is that if you play any game enough UI isn't going to matter. DOTA has 93 heroes and at least 20 different recipes - no UI in the world is going to help you remember every possible combination needed to play effectively. You just have to play the game more to get used to it. Hence why I said before it's like screaming about not remembering you need to click on a Barracks to build Marines. | ||
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
I could play a shitton of warcraft1 to the point of the UI not being an obstacle. It's still bad. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
no UI in the world is going to help you remember every possible combination needed to play effectively. Hmm... which one will help me remember faster? The one with items placed anywhere with multiple NPC shops, or the one with recipes hotlinks? God, just stop talking already. Seriously, seems you just want to friggin argue for the shake of arguing. How can you think the DotA UI is better is beyond me. I've told you countless exemples, and all you seem to say is ''lolol who cares after hundreds of games you know everything!11'' That is completely irrelevant to the quality of an UI. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
Next time try to troll less. Who said I can't complain about having to remember items? Let's take Warcraft 1 for example. Unit's don't auto-attack. Not even to defend themselves. That system is worse than War2. In Warcraft 2 they decided to streamline the system and make it easier by letting unit auto-attack. Even if you can get used to it, even if after 500 games you have become completely used to warcraft 1's limitation, Warcraft 2 system is just plain better. You can bitch all you want, a system with no recipe hotlinks < recipes hotlinks. GTFO already. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883 | ||
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