Ok, i have a question. I just turned on raw (mouse) input. Most notable differences seems to be a felt increase in sensitivity, smoother cursor movement and less delay between mouse movement and cursor movement.
I'm not really sure which of these is real. The increase in dpi felt real, but can also be due to a side-effect of the decrease in delay. Also, according to osu itself, the cursor movement now ignores windows' effect on sensitivity, so it might be that the decrease in delay is due to that change. Maybe this just means my windows sensitivity wasnt as neutral as i thought, although i wouldnt know what to do differently to theoretically have the same effect (i have sensitivity on 6/11 and acceleration off). I'm pretty sure the delay is less as i first saw the delay (looking at both the mouse and the screen at the same time) and now i have to really concentrate to see any difference at all. Consequence is that my timing is thrown off quite a bit. At the moment, when playing spaced streams, instead of going by muscle memory (just knowing where you're mouse needs to be), i can just feel the timing of the notes i need to play, which is a significant improvement. However, the moment my concentration wanes even for just a bit, i go towards muscle memory and miss every notes. Jumpheavy maps are pretty much unplayable as well, as i'm 'reacting' a lot faster than i'm used to.
Are there other people who notice changes of this magnitude? Overall it seems a lot better, apart from the accustomisation. I just don't 100% understand what's the cause of the differences.
Update edit: Very very big improvement, i can handle much more subtle aim patterns then before. Also got some good ranks and gained 50 pp, so i dare say i'm happy with my change.
It's not a good run (especially the stream part, I can do it so much cleaner usually) but it's the first time I've passed it which is huge for me as I've been struggling with my aim so much.
On March 17 2014 00:44 Xafnia wrote: You know how triple buffering works? It's adds more input latency than vsync, but prevents fps drops like vsync.
Theres no reason to Vsync/triple buffer in osu because the screen doesn't even move so you don't get screen tearing anyways, so there's no upside to enabling it.
When you have high FPS, triple buffering can lower latency.
Double buffered vsync has two buffers, A and B:
A is shown on your screen.
B is drawn on to. System finishes B as soon as possible, at 1000fps in about 1ms. It's then held in buffer until screen refresh is ready, it's not touched and system is idle, waiting for work. If your refresh takes 10ms and this frame takes 1ms to render, then it will sit idle and it will be 9ms old when it starts to display.
Triple buffer in at least some cases works differently, you have three buffers, A, B and C:
A is on screen.
C is rendered to in the background
Every time C is finished rendering, the finished result is transfered onto B and then C starts over on a new frame - every new frame that completes on C just overwrites the buffer on B so system can start over and over again rendering a newer, more recent frame on C.
On screen refresh, B is shown on screen. In this example, if frames take 1ms each to render, B will have been updated with a new frame ~9 times before a 100hz refresh, instead of just once like double buffer, which can't render anything when both buffers (the screen display buffer and the render buffer) are full. The frame is then ~1-2ms old instead of ~9ms old.
At least that's a very basic understanding of it from what i know - i'm not an expert on how that works in particular so i may be completely wrong in this explanation, but i've had some discussions and read on OCN/blurbusters etc a lot about it being significantly helpful, especially when you are able to put out more FPS than you would display with Vsync.
edit: I did a little digging! Pretty sure i'm correct now. You may be confusing this with amount of buffered frames, or pre-rendered frames, of which it's always best to keep low for input lag and is unrelated to vsync. That's a technique for keeping work buffered for the GPU to try to avoid brief idle periods where it does not have any work queued, at the cost of everything it outputs being slightly delayed (but easily human-perceptible)
Theres no reason to Vsync/triple buffer in osu because the screen doesn't even move so you don't get screen tearing anyways, so there's no upside to enabling it.
Aside from the notably less motion blur on the cursor etc while using a strobe backlight? I can blind test if it's on or off, the added input lag even on 120hz just makes it unusable.
I wouldn't normally care for Vsync, i don't really mind tearing at all nor notice it really in Osu at such a high FPS and refresh rate, but it has an effect here. Same as CS:GO, it's actually beneficial sometimes to run triple buffered 120hz vsync because you can get it down to being a pretty small increase in latency and a large reduction in motion blur. This isn't relevant for most people without such hardware, though. It's a nitpicky thing for osu, i just wondered if i could set it up decently
On March 17 2014 05:20 Yorbon wrote: Ok, i have a question. I just turned on raw (mouse) input. Most notable differences seems to be a felt increase in sensitivity, smoother cursor movement and less delay between mouse movement and cursor movement.
I'm not really sure which of these is real. The increase in dpi felt real, but can also be due to a side-effect of the decrease in delay. Also, according to osu itself, the cursor movement now ignores windows' effect on sensitivity, so it might be that the decrease in delay is due to that change. Maybe this just means my windows sensitivity wasnt as neutral as i thought, although i wouldnt know what to do differently to theoretically have the same effect (i have sensitivity on 6/11 and acceleration off). I'm pretty sure the delay is less as i first saw the delay (looking at both the mouse and the screen at the same time) and now i have to really concentrate to see any difference at all. Consequence is that my timing is thrown off quite a bit. At the moment, when playing spaced streams, instead of going by muscle memory (just knowing where you're mouse needs to be), i can just feel the timing of the notes i need to play, which is a significant improvement. However, the moment my concentration wanes even for just a bit, i go towards muscle memory and miss every notes. Jumpheavy maps are pretty much unplayable as well, as i'm 'reacting' a lot faster than i'm used to.
Are there other people who notice changes of this magnitude? Overall it seems a lot better, apart from the accustomisation. I just don't 100% understand what's the cause of the differences.
Update edit: Very very big improvement, i can handle much more subtle aim patterns then before. Also got some good ranks and gained 50 pp, so i dare say i'm happy with my change.
I saw no real change from putting raw input on - which is good
I was using 1:1 with 500hz anyway. It's still better to use, though real effects are more of a big deal when playing low sens in a first person shooter game than playing something like osu - i'm not sure if there's any big benefit to having it on here if your settings were already unbroken. Mouse movement more independent of framerate? I'm no expert on raw input either, i just know when it's needed and problems that you get without it
You should be able to tab in and out of osu without your sens changing, but you were changing your resolution or osu sens multiplier i think, so you can't do that like i can i guess
On March 17 2014 05:20 Yorbon wrote: Ok, i have a question. I just turned on raw (mouse) input. Most notable differences seems to be a felt increase in sensitivity, smoother cursor movement and less delay between mouse movement and cursor movement.
I'm not really sure which of these is real. The increase in dpi felt real, but can also be due to a side-effect of the decrease in delay. Also, according to osu itself, the cursor movement now ignores windows' effect on sensitivity, so it might be that the decrease in delay is due to that change. Maybe this just means my windows sensitivity wasnt as neutral as i thought, although i wouldnt know what to do differently to theoretically have the same effect (i have sensitivity on 6/11 and acceleration off). I'm pretty sure the delay is less as i first saw the delay (looking at both the mouse and the screen at the same time) and now i have to really concentrate to see any difference at all. Consequence is that my timing is thrown off quite a bit. At the moment, when playing spaced streams, instead of going by muscle memory (just knowing where you're mouse needs to be), i can just feel the timing of the notes i need to play, which is a significant improvement. However, the moment my concentration wanes even for just a bit, i go towards muscle memory and miss every notes. Jumpheavy maps are pretty much unplayable as well, as i'm 'reacting' a lot faster than i'm used to.
Are there other people who notice changes of this magnitude? Overall it seems a lot better, apart from the accustomisation. I just don't 100% understand what's the cause of the differences.
Update edit: Very very big improvement, i can handle much more subtle aim patterns then before. Also got some good ranks and gained 50 pp, so i dare say i'm happy with my change.
I saw no real change from putting raw input on - which is good
I was using 1:1 with 500hz anyway. It's still better to use, though real effects are more of a big deal when playing low sens in a first person shooter game than playing something like osu - i'm not sure if there's any big benefit to having it on here if your settings were already unbroken. Mouse movement more independent of framerate? I'm no expert on raw input either, i just know when it's needed and problems that you get without it
You should be able to tab in and out of osu without your sens changing, but you were changing your resolution or osu sens multiplier i think, so you can't do that like i can i guess
osu sens multiplier was at 1.0, so that should be good. I'd guess the resolution is indeed the best guess.
On March 17 2014 22:20 Cyro wrote: Aside from the notably less motion blur on the cursor etc while using a strobe backlight? I can blind test if it's on or off, the added input lag even on 120hz just makes it unusable.
I wouldn't normally care for Vsync, i don't really mind tearing at all nor notice it really in Osu at such a high FPS and refresh rate, but it has an effect here. Same as CS:GO, it's actually beneficial sometimes to run triple buffered 120hz vsync because you can get it down to being a pretty small increase in latency and a large reduction in motion blur. This isn't relevant for most people without such hardware, though. It's a nitpicky thing for osu, i just wondered if i could set it up decently
Uh, what strobe backlight?
Motion blur? You actually have to use something like a dx10 effect to get motion blur on computers. (If you take a screenshot, a frame with motion blur will be blurred).
Note without motion blur you can distinguish individual frames while the camera pans around fast.
The "reason" we add motion blur to games/movies is so movement looks fluid even when fps is low. TV/Movies are 24fps, and would look horrible during movements if the frames were not blurred. Ideally if we had monitors with high enough refresh rates, motion blur wouldn't need to be added as an effect. (Just like if we had high enough resolution monitors, we wouldn't need anti-aliasing). Wave your hand in front of your monitor, it will "naturally" have motion blur.
Vsync has nothing to do with motion blur. At all.
Explanation of how monitors refresh without vsync:
Lets take a specific example. Let's say your monitor is set to a refresh rate of 75Hz. You're playing your favorite game and you're getting 100FPS right now. That means that the mointor is updating itself 75 times per second, but the video card is updating the display 100 times per second, that's 33% faster than the monitor. So that means in the time between screen updates, the video card has drawn one frame and a third of another one. That third of the next frame will overwrite the top third of the previous frame and then get drawn on the screen. The video card then finishes the last 2 thirds of that frame, and renders the next 2 thirds of the next frame and then the screen updates again. As you can see this would cause this tearing effect as 2 out of every 3 times the screen updates, either the top third or bottom third is disjointed from the rest of the display. This won't really be noticeable if what is on the screen isn't changing much, but if you're looking around quickly or what not this effect will be very apparent.
With Vsync:
VSync solves this problem by creating a rule that says the back buffer can't copy to the frame buffer until right after the monitor refreshes. With a framerate higher than the refresh rate, this is fine. The back buffer is filled with a frame, the system waits, and after the refresh, the back buffer is copied to the frame buffer and a new frame is drawn in the back buffer, effectively capping your framerate at the refresh rate.
That's all well and good, but now let's look at a different example. Let's say you're playing the sequel to your favorite game, which has better graphics. You're at 75Hz refresh rate still, but now you're only getting 50FPS, 33% slower than the refresh rate. That means every time the monitor updates the screen, the video card draws 2/3 of the next frame. So lets track how this works. The monitor just refreshed, and frame 1 is copied into the frame buffer. 2/3 of frame 2 gets drawn in the back buffer, and the monitor refreshes again. It grabs frame 1 from the frame buffer for the first time. Now the video card finishes the last third of frame 2, but it has to wait, because it can't update until right after a refresh. The monitor refreshes, grabbing frame 1 the second time, and frame 2 is put in the frame buffer. The video card draws 2/3 of frame 3 in the back buffer, and a refresh happens, grabbing frame 2 for the first time. The last third of frame 3 is draw, and again we must wait for the refresh, and when it happens, frame 2 is grabbed for the second time, and frame 3 is copied in. We went through 4 refresh cycles but only 2 frames were drawn. At a refresh rate of 75Hz, that means we'll see 37.5FPS. That's noticeably less than 50FPS which the video card is capable of. This happens because the video card is forced to waste time after finishing a frame in the back buffer as it can't copy it out and it has nowhere else to draw frames.
Essentially this means that with double-buffered VSync, the framerate can only be equal to a discrete set of values equal to Refresh / N where N is some positive integer. That means if you're talking about 60Hz refresh rate, the only framerates you can get are 60, 30, 20, 15, 12, 10, etc etc. You can see the big gap between 60 and 30 there. Any framerate between 60 and 30 your video card would normally put out would get dropped to 30.
Triple buffering:
All hope is not lost however. There is a technique called triple-buffering that solves this VSync problem. Lets go back to our 50FPS, 75Hz example. Frame 1 is in the frame buffer, and 2/3 of frame 2 are drawn in the back buffer. The refresh happens and frame 1 is grabbed for the first time. The last third of frame 2 are drawn in the back buffer, and the first third of frame 3 is drawn in the second back buffer (hence the term triple-buffering). The refresh happens, frame 1 is grabbed for the second time, and frame 2 is copied into the frame buffer and the first part of frame 3 into the back buffer. The last 2/3 of frame 3 are drawn in the back buffer, the refresh happens, frame 2 is grabbed for the first time, and frame 3 is copied to the frame buffer. The process starts over. This time we still got 2 frames, but in only 3 refresh cycles. That's 2/3 of the refresh rate, which is 50FPS, exactly what we would have gotten without it. Triple-buffering essentially gives the video card someplace to keep doing work while it waits to transfer the back buffer to the frame buffer, so it doesn't have to waste time. Unfortunately, triple-buffering isn't available in every game, and in fact it isn't too common. It also can cost a little performance to utilize, as it requires extra VRAM for the buffers, and time spent copying all of them around. However, triple-buffered VSync really is the key to the best experience as you eliminate tearing without the downsides of normal VSync (unless you consider the fact that your FPS is capped a downside... which is silly because you can't see an FPS higher than your refresh anyway).
What happens is with vsync, what you see is, never the most current rendered frame (the most current rendered frame is the back-buffer). AKA you are 1 frame behind. With triple buffering the most current frame is "frame 3" and you are shown "frame 1". You are up to 2 frames behind.
What does this mean for osu? Well osu calculates timings the same way SC2 does without the "reduce mouse input lag" option. Quote from a sc2 thread about this option:
On March 22 2012 02:11 R1CH wrote: jaj22 is correct, it turns off pre-rendering, meaning the game will always wait for your input before drawing the next frame. You should only turn it on if you actually experience mouse lag. The best way to test is to drag around in circles on the minimap and see if the white rectangle keeps up with your cursor.
If you have vsync enabled, you almost certainly need this enabled too, otherwise your mouse input will be delayed be up to 16ms (1000ms / 60fps).
Your mouse input will be delayed be up to 16ms (1000ms / 60fps). It's double that for triple buffering.
The window for getting a 300 on a circle (without mods) ranges from within 78ms of exactly-on-time at OD0 to within 18ms at OD10.
The timing window at OD8 is ~32ms. And your mouse input can be delayed by up to 16ms with just vsync? I hope you can see why this is a problem for both aiming and timing.
On March 17 2014 22:20 Cyro wrote: Aside from the notably less motion blur on the cursor etc while using a strobe backlight? I can blind test if it's on or off, the added input lag even on 120hz just makes it unusable.
I wouldn't normally care for Vsync, i don't really mind tearing at all nor notice it really in Osu at such a high FPS and refresh rate, but it has an effect here. Same as CS:GO, it's actually beneficial sometimes to run triple buffered 120hz vsync because you can get it down to being a pretty small increase in latency and a large reduction in motion blur. This isn't relevant for most people without such hardware, though. It's a nitpicky thing for osu, i just wondered if i could set it up decently
Uh, what strobe backlight?
Motion blur? You actually have to use something like a dx10 effect to get motion blur on computers. (If you take a screenshot, a frame with motion blur will be blurred).
Note without motion blur you can distinguish individual frames while the camera pans around fast.
The "reason" we add motion blur to games/movies is so movement looks fluid even when fps is low. TV/Movies are 24fps, and would look horrible during movements if the frames were not blurred. Ideally if we had monitors with high enough refresh rates, motion blur wouldn't need to be added as an effect. (Just like if we had high enough resolution monitors, we wouldn't need anti-aliasing). Wave your hand in front of your monitor, it will "naturally" have motion blur.
Vsync has nothing to do with motion blur. At all.
Explanation of how monitors refresh without vsync:
Lets take a specific example. Let's say your monitor is set to a refresh rate of 75Hz. You're playing your favorite game and you're getting 100FPS right now. That means that the mointor is updating itself 75 times per second, but the video card is updating the display 100 times per second, that's 33% faster than the monitor. So that means in the time between screen updates, the video card has drawn one frame and a third of another one. That third of the next frame will overwrite the top third of the previous frame and then get drawn on the screen. The video card then finishes the last 2 thirds of that frame, and renders the next 2 thirds of the next frame and then the screen updates again. As you can see this would cause this tearing effect as 2 out of every 3 times the screen updates, either the top third or bottom third is disjointed from the rest of the display. This won't really be noticeable if what is on the screen isn't changing much, but if you're looking around quickly or what not this effect will be very apparent.
VSync solves this problem by creating a rule that says the back buffer can't copy to the frame buffer until right after the monitor refreshes. With a framerate higher than the refresh rate, this is fine. The back buffer is filled with a frame, the system waits, and after the refresh, the back buffer is copied to the frame buffer and a new frame is drawn in the back buffer, effectively capping your framerate at the refresh rate.
That's all well and good, but now let's look at a different example. Let's say you're playing the sequel to your favorite game, which has better graphics. You're at 75Hz refresh rate still, but now you're only getting 50FPS, 33% slower than the refresh rate. That means every time the monitor updates the screen, the video card draws 2/3 of the next frame. So lets track how this works. The monitor just refreshed, and frame 1 is copied into the frame buffer. 2/3 of frame 2 gets drawn in the back buffer, and the monitor refreshes again. It grabs frame 1 from the frame buffer for the first time. Now the video card finishes the last third of frame 2, but it has to wait, because it can't update until right after a refresh. The monitor refreshes, grabbing frame 1 the second time, and frame 2 is put in the frame buffer. The video card draws 2/3 of frame 3 in the back buffer, and a refresh happens, grabbing frame 2 for the first time. The last third of frame 3 is draw, and again we must wait for the refresh, and when it happens, frame 2 is grabbed for the second time, and frame 3 is copied in. We went through 4 refresh cycles but only 2 frames were drawn. At a refresh rate of 75Hz, that means we'll see 37.5FPS. That's noticeably less than 50FPS which the video card is capable of. This happens because the video card is forced to waste time after finishing a frame in the back buffer as it can't copy it out and it has nowhere else to draw frames.
Essentially this means that with double-buffered VSync, the framerate can only be equal to a discrete set of values equal to Refresh / N where N is some positive integer. That means if you're talking about 60Hz refresh rate, the only framerates you can get are 60, 30, 20, 15, 12, 10, etc etc. You can see the big gap between 60 and 30 there. Any framerate between 60 and 30 your video card would normally put out would get dropped to 30.
All hope is not lost however. There is a technique called triple-buffering that solves this VSync problem. Lets go back to our 50FPS, 75Hz example. Frame 1 is in the frame buffer, and 2/3 of frame 2 are drawn in the back buffer. The refresh happens and frame 1 is grabbed for the first time. The last third of frame 2 are drawn in the back buffer, and the first third of frame 3 is drawn in the second back buffer (hence the term triple-buffering). The refresh happens, frame 1 is grabbed for the second time, and frame 2 is copied into the frame buffer and the first part of frame 3 into the back buffer. The last 2/3 of frame 3 are drawn in the back buffer, the refresh happens, frame 2 is grabbed for the first time, and frame 3 is copied to the frame buffer. The process starts over. This time we still got 2 frames, but in only 3 refresh cycles. That's 2/3 of the refresh rate, which is 50FPS, exactly what we would have gotten without it. Triple-buffering essentially gives the video card someplace to keep doing work while it waits to transfer the back buffer to the frame buffer, so it doesn't have to waste time. Unfortunately, triple-buffering isn't available in every game, and in fact it isn't too common. It also can cost a little performance to utilize, as it requires extra VRAM for the buffers, and time spent copying all of them around. However, triple-buffered VSync really is the key to the best experience as you eliminate tearing without the downsides of normal VSync (unless you consider the fact that your FPS is capped a downside... which is silly because you can't see an FPS higher than your refresh anyway).
What happens is with vsync, what you see is, never the most current rendered frame (the most current rendered frame is the back-buffer). AKA you are 1 frame behind. With triple buffering the most current frame is "frame 3" and you are shown "frame 1". You are up to 2 frames behind.
What does this mean for osu? Well osu calculates timings the same way SC2 does without the "reduce mouse input lag" option. Quote from a sc2 thread about this option:
On March 22 2012 02:11 R1CH wrote: jaj22 is correct, it turns off pre-rendering, meaning the game will always wait for your input before drawing the next frame. You should only turn it on if you actually experience mouse lag. The best way to test is to drag around in circles on the minimap and see if the white rectangle keeps up with your cursor.
If you have vsync enabled, you almost certainly need this enabled too, otherwise your mouse input will be delayed be up to 16ms (1000ms / 60fps).
Your mouse input will be delayed be up to 16ms (1000ms / 60fps). It's double that for triple buffering.
The window for getting a 300 on a circle (without mods) ranges from within 78ms of exactly-on-time at OD0 to within 18ms at OD10.
The timing window at OD8 is ~32ms. And your mouse input can be delayed by up to 16ms with just vsync? I hope you can see why this is a problem for both aiming and timing.
---------------------------------------
Uh, what strobe backlight?
Motion blur? You actually have to use something like a dx10 effect to get motion blur on computers. (If you take a screenshot, a frame with motion blur will be blurred).
Sorry but you're completely out of your depth here, i don't really know how to explain stuff without writing 5k words.
LCD monitors have motion blur caused by pixel transition times (this is often small now, but even fastest monitors with 1ms gtg can have 3-4ms worst case) and the sample and hold effect (which is the primary cause of motion blur these days on an lcd). I can't adress a rant without you having an understanding of the technology: http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vslb/ - there's a LOT of misunderstanding here. This isn't added motion blur, it's motion blur inherent to the display, not to the frames being outputted to it. It's one of the biggest disadvantage of constant-backlight LCD monitors vs CRT.
Vsync has nothing to do with motion blur. At all.
This is not true, motion quality from a strobe backlight monitor is notably better if you only strobe complete frames, instead of strobing the backlight when you're at 300fps and there's three different frames on screen for each backlight on period
What happens is with vsync, what you see is, never the most current rendered frame (the most current rendered frame is the back-buffer). AKA you are 1 frame behind. With triple buffering the most current frame is "frame 3" and you are shown "frame 1". You are up to 2 frames behind.
When you're double buffering, you render to the back buffer once, then you don't touch it. When you're triple buffering, you constantly replace the image in the back buffer with newer, more recent completely rendered frames that have been created in a third buffer for working on, so that there can always be a complete frame waiting for the screen refresh in the primary back buffer
^or at least that is idea. If this is correct or not is another issue than the other stuff above.
I'm not entirely, 100% 10000% sure that this bit is right, it's just the impression i got from listening to others talking about vsync increasing motion quality for strobe backlight displays and triple buffering removing some of the input lag penalty, even a majority of it if you could render at high FPS (think 500) but the other stuff, strobe backlight, display etc - i've read hundreds of hours of this stuff and i get the impression that it's entirely new to you, but you have an ok understanding of other stuff
I'm a tech enthusiast and very sensitive to latency and microstutter, i have a nice setup with extremely low mouse to screen latency, etc. If you want to learn and talk i can explain more. Not the biggest expert on a lot of stuff, but i have a good understanding and know who to ask if i need to know anything
Well I don't have a strobe backlight capable monitor. (I thought you meant like strobe Storyboards)
Don't worry I am a huge techie myself . I am also a photography techie so to me the use of the expression "motion blur" to describe the effects of pixel change, it's just not right. The effects might seem similar but they are not really the same.
This is not true, motion quality from a strobe backlight monitor is notably better if you only strobe complete frames, instead of strobing the backlight when you're at 300fps and there's three different frames on screen for each backlight on period
GPUs render pictures like CRTs display them, top left pixel to bottom right pixel. Similar to this: (not exactly the same, when you don't render in realtime you use different rendering methods)
What happens with a realtime render on a GPU is the bottom "unrendered" part of that video would be the previous frame. Once the GPU reaches the bottom right most pixel, it starts at the top left again. What happens is, without Vsync, when the monitor refeshes, it copies the whole buffer and displays that, until the next refresh. When you pan fast enough, like playing an FPS, the distance traveled during the time it takes to render a single frame can be a lot, so you get a visible line where the pictures are disjointed.
Disjointed pictures look like fucking horrible shit.
None of this changes the "motion blur of the monitor" Taking the example of that site you linked. With the strobing, without Vsync, *if* you had a tear in the middle of the alien in a frame, the only difference would be that the top 1/2 would be further forward that the bottom half for that one frame. That's it.
Shitty photoshop I did: (right side = > if the screen tear appeared mid-ship) ^example if the ship moved a long distance between the current and last frame ^example if the ship moved a short distance between the current and last frame
In both cases the "actual" position would be the top 1/2. The bottom part would be "old" With Vsync/triple buffering, you'd be seeing only the "old" position. If the position between the two frames were less <1 pixel? No visible tear with or without vsync.
When you're double buffering, you render to the back buffer once, then you don't touch it. When you're triple buffering, you constantly replace the image in the back buffer with newer, more recent completely rendered frames that have been created in a third buffer for working on, so that there can always be a complete frame waiting for the screen refresh in the primary back buffer ^or at least that is idea. If this is correct or not is another issue than the other stuff above.
I'm not entirely, 100% 10000% sure that this bit is right, it's just the impression i got from listening to others talking about vsync increasing motion quality for strobe backlight displays and triple buffering removing some of the input lag penalty, even a majority of it if you could render at high FPS (think 500) but the other stuff, strobe backlight, display etc - i've read hundreds of hours of this stuff and i get the impression that it's entirely new to you, but you have an ok understanding of other stuff
What matters for triple buffering vs Vsync is: let's you drop less frames if your fps is lower than your monitor refresh rate, lower latency, higher VRAM usage.
I'm a tech enthusiast and very sensitive to latency and microstutter, i have a nice setup with extremely low mouse to screen latency, etc. If you want to learn and talk i can explain more. Not the biggest expert on a lot of stuff, but i have a good understanding and know who to ask if i need to know anything
Now for the important stuff, how this all affects osu:
Microsutter: There is no microsutter in osu if your pc isn't total dogshit.
No vsync/buffering at all, will always have the lowest latency. Doubly so when considering the way osu handles inputs latency.
Tearing is irrelevant: Objects in osu don't move, tearing is a non-issue. And tearing is the only reason to ever use vsync/triple buffering. Its a tradeoff of tearing vs latency.
"screen based motion blur" is irrelevant: Nothing moves in osu, only disappears/reappears. Your mouse doesn't overlap between frames either.
Backlight strobing: It is essentially making "old" frames disappear faster at the cost of delaying the appearance of new frames. Move your cursor around really fast in a circle, how many can you see, more than 1? Backlight strobing or not won't change how your eyes work.
Random note about blurring: Blurring is good. Lack of blurring makes things look jerky as fuck. In an ideal world you wouldn't be able to make out individual frames. The whole point of having things like 120hz-240hz monitors is so each frame blends into the next better, without using post-processing hacks.
Post-processing motion blur looks ridiculous when you move around like that (and really, you can make out the individually blurred frames anyways, it IS a hack). No post processing looks like a bunch of pictures, not natural flowing movement.
Edit: If you can't notice the entire screen goes black during the time the "blur" happens, can you really notice a 1-2 ms color distortion on pixels that are changing? :D
On March 19 2014 05:08 Yorbon wrote: Holy fuck So, i've been working on my speed a bit. Pity about the miss, but i was soooo nervous, the 8 triples at the end were a bit too much.
Fun fact: this score was only 500k behind dungeon. Not too shabby on this map. :p
edit:And my rank is now 3 digits :D yay!
Damn congratz on 3 digits Yorbon, that makes you a semi pro at the very least! :D
I'll try to live up to the expectation this achievement brings, hehe.
@OdinOfPergo: i added you, so you can expect me to spectate you at a random time >:D
Edit: There seems to be an incomprehensibly technical discussion going on. I don't really know about any details, but please let me know if i should change anything
I read the words vsync and triple buffer, which I have seen in graphic options of games before, I continued to check osu options and when I couldn't even find the settings I realized I should just not even attempt to understand that xP
On March 19 2014 11:33 Yorbon wrote: Thank you, thank you. :D
I'll try to live up to the expectation this achievement brings, hehe.
@OdinOfPergo: i added you, so you can expect me to spectate you at a random time >:D
Edit: There seems to be an incomprehensibly technical discussion going on. I don't really know about any details, but please let me know if i should change anything
Be prepared to grab your brain in despair, as I fail to clear even the most simplest of patterns! I'm honestly not sure how to check spectators though.. So if you catch me online throw me a pm so I can add you myself ;p.
I've been skimming through this thread today for tips.. So far the big things I need to work on -
Posture:
I can't be that bad, because I never have pain while playing. I've been a long time guitar/piano enthusiast.., so maby that's helping me. I'll sometimes end up with a sensitive wrist at the end of my 3-11 hour gaming spree. But it's usually just a tight feeling. Not pain, but I can tell my muscles have apostrophized and they no longer really like to support my gaming sprees. I expect some good practice hours will remedy this..
A big nono I've developed since I'm breezing through right now is I don't single tap. Like ever.. when I started I alternated fingers. I pretty much switch between index/middle finger for x/z since as long as I've been playing. That didn't change when I came back either.
As for perspective on that, I don't really think it's helping me any and the past 2-3 days I've been playing solely single tap (with middle finger on z) My acc and max combos have gone done a lot but I feel like my speed and ability to keep rhythm are going up slowly.
Point in cause is that previously I could only clear the really simple hard maps. Like 2.0-2.6 star maps. The super ezpz stuff. Since I've been trying to learn single taps and better alternating only when I had to I can clear higher star ratings.. Like 2.4-3.0 maps (it's not pretty but I don't die most of the time at least.)
That being said I would love to have some links to some good training maps! I have seen and dled a few of the maps that I've seen put up in this thread.., but I'll be honest, I have a really hectic schedule and not so much time to research things. So I'd appreciate any recent recommendations for maps to help me progress.
On that note, I'll jump back to my initial statement. I'm really bad at the triangular patterns that start getting introduced in hard/insane map sets. But I do need to learn the basic patterns eventually or I'm going to hit a ceiling (Which is approaching fast :[ ) I fail even the easiest maps over and over again because I fail to be able to read these progressions. So I'd really like some.. er... how to say.. not easy.. but weaker hp drain? maps that I can practice these on without insta failing half way through the progression. I really don't like to run the no fail mod/HT, hints my request for lower hp drain maps.
Anyway, I could probably write a book on the thing I need to improve but hopefully this is enough for you guys to get a general idea for now.. I'm usually on late night/early morning U.S. time for anyone who wishes to spectate. But that can fluctuate due to my work schedule..
As far as i can tell from your description a 'tight feeling' in your (right) wrist is just consequence of getting tired. Only thing i would watch out for is taking too few breaks. Also, stretch your wrists every few songs until that becomes a habit. Most important is listening to your body.
Not single tapping isnt bad per se. Some guy (who's pretty inactive now) who was 'famous' in Brazilian osu for his streaming accuracy, alternated only. Pro of alternating only is having an extraordinary flexibility and rythmic accuracy, if you're truly used to that. Con of it is that you need a very good sense of rythm and practice can be very frustrating at first. I play osu with mostly single tap, because it's what i've been doing like since forever. When i started i refused to play triples, playing only the first and last note, lmao. I wouldn't be thinking about what style is best. The point is that one has to be able to alternate/singletap if the situation calls for it. An example of necessary flexibility, in my style, it's fairly common for me to tap a slider with x, while normal single tap is z (i won't elaborate further, too much hassle). My normal way to play a triplet is 'zxz'. Suppose just after the slider there are 2 eighth notes. The taps then are 'xzx'. There was a time i had huge trouble with this. I thought of solutions like remembering where that was and tapping the slider with z no matter what. But after a while i realized I just had to be able to play xzx whenever needed. And that's the mindset you need. (i realise you say 'alternating only if i have to', but that almost implies a rejection: it shouldn't matter.)
I looked around a bit at your profile and saw you S'd normals and had somewhere like B or A at hards as recent activity. At this moment i wouldn't recommend specific practice (like practice maps purely for those triples). For now i would focus on the basics (aim, timing, reaction speed, getting used to multiple notes on screen) and try to push yourself everytime you play. First of all, most important thing when practicing/pushing yourself is knowing what you're doing. This sounds trivial, but a lot of people think they're practicing, while they're really randomly moving their mouse, and mashing buttons. If you don't know what's going on, it's probably too hard for you atm. If you do know what going on, but it just doesnt work, there are ways to improve. I'm afraid ht comes into play here. Play the song 1/2 times with ht (preferably with hr also, but not needed), and then try again at normal speed. Key here is that you analyse the relevant pattern while you have the time (during ht). Seeing how you have a musical background, you should see the benefits of starting slow to be able to do hard things. Also, when you're choosing maps for practice, it's better to choose a map that's overall of a greater difficulty than a map with one hard pattern. The latter is a waste of time (seeing the rest of the map is not really practice), and after a while it'll frustrate. If you've chosen a good map, using nofail makes more sense, because the overall map is too hard for you. A bit of drain more or less shouldn't help in that case. The goal of this practice is not to play the practice map perfectly, the goal is to let you get used to higher level maps (in terms of speed, jumps or otherwise). So after you've practiced, go back to the maps you had trouble with at some part and try them again. You'll notice the difference. This has a psychological effect (feeling your improvement) and you're strengthening your improvement: you're rising your basic ability level.
Specific advice: at your top ranks were some very nice hard scores along with a load of normal fc scores. I'd strongly advice you to get away from playing normals asap. It isnt bad to play normals, but only in the context i've just mentioned (strenthening your improvement).
This was somewhat of a ramble, i hope it was a bit clear. I'll try to find some maps, but i'm not really familiar with the things you're looking for anymore. So it'll take some time.
As a last note: don't focus too much on health drain. If you die, you're just not good enough. If anything higher health drain is better, because it forces you to be more critical of yourself.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/42357 Very natural hard diff, the insane should be too hard. This insane gives a taste of 'spaced' streams, so keep that in mind. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/38566 Seriously one of the best maps i know. The hard should be good for you, the cryo diff is good practice probably. Also, in the hard are some simpler (small) triangle patterns, so you might be interested in that one. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/44347 the hard is a good map, fanzhen i rather brilliant imo. The latter contains some squares and pretty difficult jumps, so it'll probably be very hard for you. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/47124 Rythmically pretty hard hard. Shows why it may be handy to alternate sliders. It's also pretty low ar, so timing becomes important. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/27380 Eveless is a very interesting map. But it's pretty slow.
I don't really look at the star numbers of maps, so i don't know if these are good. In the case they are too easy, by all means go to the insane difficulties, they should be hard enough. Apart from the second last one, these are all maps i started my insane play with.
EPT
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