EPTRevo I don't know you so I don't mean anything personal, but your statements about kwark having never led a 0.0 fleet of +50 members does not matter as we have no intention of getting involved in that part of eve. You may very well be better than kwark in that part of the game and we are content with that. What we as a corp excel in is what kwark is good at leading us through, and that is what important. For the record, I have heard kwark say during the fight when we first ever engaged a carrier with a few out-of-corp-friends that the fight was way over his head and he asked one of their more cap-experienced pilots to take over. He accepts it.
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34499 Posts
Revo I don't know you so I don't mean anything personal, but your statements about kwark having never led a 0.0 fleet of +50 members does not matter as we have no intention of getting involved in that part of eve. You may very well be better than kwark in that part of the game and we are content with that. What we as a corp excel in is what kwark is good at leading us through, and that is what important. For the record, I have heard kwark say during the fight when we first ever engaged a carrier with a few out-of-corp-friends that the fight was way over his head and he asked one of their more cap-experienced pilots to take over. He accepts it. | ||
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
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Trollhammer
Singapore94 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:16 Nyovne wrote: edit: Just to clear this up, he IS a huge dick but he actually HAS a pretty average one, maybe even on the small side. Np. And you would know this...how?  P.S. Puff did you get my evemail? | ||
Nyovne
Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 18 2011 19:41 Trollhammer wrote: Once you get over the initial trauma of being raged at by a Englishman, you realize that what kwark says actually make sense and that it would do you a load of good to learn from him. Kwark's taken a bunch of rifter noobs and turned the Hatchery into one of the better pirate corps in the region we live in. We constantly battle against larger groups who have better ships, and on top of that we usually manage to come out victorious. And you would know this...how? P.S. Puff did you get my evemail? A certain part of your post made me die a little bit inside. Well it would have if there was anything left after being a banling for close to a year. | ||
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Trollhammer
Singapore94 Posts
On July 18 2011 20:09 Nyovne wrote: A certain part of your post made me die a little bit inside. Well it would have if there was anything left after being a banling for close to a year. Noooo dont be sad ): | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34499 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
You really got to keep in mind, that most of us got a bw background and I'm not about to say we're some superevolved kind of guys that can deal with it, but srsly, we're pretty much used to play a game like kwark's fcing. What's left here are guys who do not have a problem with losing 50 games on iccup in a row, just for the purpose of improving. Noone quits because, they can't stand the constant pointing out of your mistakes, as someone else watches your replays, because that's what you want them to do. To put it the right way: I guess a lot people quit that way, but those are probably not the ones being arround on tl. If he'd do this stuff in another community that isn't that determined on improving and to make a mistake only happen once in a lifetime, the majority of new guys probably would leave instantly and I do agree, that in that case a fc like revo said would be better ( = "probably in 95% of the communits that would be better"). At leasts that's my point of view on it. To sum it up: For our style of playing a game kwarks ok I guess. | ||
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KwarK
United States43458 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:16 Nyovne wrote: Kwark is a huge dick but as it happens to be he's one of the few huge dicks that I actually like (and yes you dirty boys can take that any way you want). I don't agree with what and especially how he does some things but he gets things done and I greatly enjoy playing EVE at the moment when life allows me to do so and not in small part due to him and the Corp he is running atm. edit: Just to clear this up, he IS a huge dick but he actually HAS a pretty average one, maybe even on the small side. Np. Any bigger and you'd tear. | ||
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happyft
United States470 Posts
Overall, I think Kwark is a good FC. He has a material amount of experience nano-ganging and high sec-type warfare (station games), so he knows how and when to engage, how and when to disengage, and good situational awareness of align and exit points for both friendlies and enemies. I think that pretty much sums up the majority of what is required of being a good FC. In terms of his leadership style, I think it's okay. Humility certainly isn't his best trait, and he does rage when things don't go right, but let's be honest -- who doesn't find rage hilarious? :D And I think Kwark can take as good as he can give. What I mean is this: he is the CEO, and also he is the FC most oftentimes -- so let him tell you off, at least give him that much. But after a certain point, you can just say, "alright alright we get it, let's move on" (of course he'll usually keep going), but after a certain point it becomes funny in an absurd way and you can't help but laugh and he'll eventually simmer down and everyone moves on. I think there's one mitigating factor to his leadership style that most don't take into account. FC'ing in the Hatchery takes a lot of patience and energy, especially with new guys. I really mean this, it takes a lot of patience. I led several (maybe a dozen?) noob training ops, as well as took several (probably more than a dozen?) new guys with my daily solo roams, and it's really quite exhausting. Going over basic things like don't leave lows empty learn corp fits, learn d-scan, gate camp, gate crash and align can take hours. This is further exacerbated when people do not respond on vent, or they can't even log onto vent, or people doubt your advice and play their own (clueless) way, etc. etc. etc. This last part is extremely trying -- I consider myself to be very patient and laidback, and I've nearly lost my cool multiple times training some guys who are just...really problematic =P So Kwark, despite your shortcomings, you have my respect for leading the Hatchery for this long and having the patience and effort to do so. You don't have to FC, you dont' have to CEO, you don't have to offer salvage, but you do. Of course, you are a jerk sometimes, can be full of yourself sometimes, and putting other people down is really not cool -- by no means should this be overlooked -- and you should take as much as you give in the bollocking department, but it's a pity no one (or few people) step up to the plate <3 P.S. One small criticism I had of his FC'ing though is that he was too risk-averse for my taste, especially when FC'ing bigger fleets. A reflection of this is the whole obsession with efficiency. My own attitude was, "Who cares about efficiency? Let's have fun, and get better." But meh, that's my own style. To each his own, that's why y'all need to learn to FC and do your own roams :D Edit: Oh, one more thing. Kwark bollocking you for 10 min about a mistake is the worst it gets. So really, that's all you gotta deal with. If you can't, well... I dunno what to say about that =P But if you can, hey it only gets better from there, and the plus-sides to Hatchery are pretty good I think. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34499 Posts
I disagree about the risk-averse comment. We happily engage many a superior fleet now (in terms of ships/sp/etc). If we lose due to a genuine reason, meh. It is when we lose due to really silly piloting errors when people get pissed. KwarK should mention the corp efficiency less when ranting imo, that would stop people from thinking that's all he/we care about. On a side note, wtf, no carrier kills since I left? Standards are slipping. | ||
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happyft
United States470 Posts
It's kinda hard for me to explain, but flying with Kwark has given me that impression that he really didn't like to risk bigger fleets (~15 actual ships + light tackle). | ||
tofucake
Hyrule19188 Posts
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KwarK
United States43458 Posts
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happyft
United States470 Posts
Let's see if I can remember our fleet... WP in a claymore, Nou Firebolt and Cael in canes, Kwark and Karah in drakes Me, Gemini, I think Valenious (or some other guy who's name started with V), and one other guy who had as much ECM skills as I did can't recall his name I definitely recall Tofu and Serg both piloting Scimmys... I think Apt was one scimmy, and we had another go-to scimmy alt? And then we had like 3-5 rifters We also flew with a rapier and huginn a couple of times, but it seems they're not around anymore | ||
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
But I still think the argument holds through, the efficiency is still a very discussed subject within the Hatch to a certain point where some pilots buy ships but never undock them (even if theyd want to fly them) just because they are too scared of being ranted on for scrapping the efficiency should they ever lose the ship (Ive seen this many many times). Hell, even some pilots are scared to undock their faction frigates//t2 and go roam solo with them because of the red line it could make on the KB. | ||
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Valenius
United Kingdom1266 Posts
On July 19 2011 00:59 happyft wrote: Yep, got that, I read your battle reports and look at the kb too =) Just making a comment about the handful of times we went out to null sec with a real fleet of a dozen plus guys. (In fact, I remember getting fed up that we once got a real fleet together but opted to go wormhole carebearing instead. That sucked) Let's see if I can remember our fleet... WP in a claymore, Nou Firebolt and Cael in canes, Kwark and Karah in drakes Me, Gemini, I think Valenious (or some other guy who's name started with V), and one other guy who had as much ECM skills as I did can't recall his name I definitely recall Tofu and Serg both piloting Scimmys... I think Apt was one scimmy, and we had another go-to scimmy alt? And then we had like 3-5 rifters We also flew with a rapier and huginn a couple of times, but it seems they're not around anymore Yeah that was me. Although the only time I really remember flying a BB in a big-ish fleet was when we went down around M-M and played station games with some locals. | ||
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
P.S. Puff did you get my evemail? Yes, I will take care of it. | ||
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
On July 19 2011 01:07 TurpinOS wrote: We dont really field the same fleets we used to, nowadays its more of a ''grab anything and undock'' then ''lets make it so it makes sense with links, reps and recon'' But I still think the argument holds through, the efficiency is still a very discussed subject within the Hatch to a certain point where some pilots buy ships but never undock them (even if theyd want to fly them) just because they are too scared of being ranted on for scrapping the efficiency should they ever lose the ship (Ive seen this many many times). Hell, even some pilots are scared to undock their faction frigates//t2 and go roam solo with them because of the red line it could make on the KB. Yea, I definitely fall into this boat. Lately, however, I think I am just more hung up on my own personal efficiency then the corps, or ever getting ranted at. When we kill 2b a day in ships I am not too afraid about losing a 250m ship, but my own precious efficiency would be very upset with me! | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On July 19 2011 00:37 KwarK wrote: Happy, we barely use ECM or logis, our average fleet size is still 6 or so with no support ships. Logis only come out for the larger fleets which I try and avoid FCing anyway. I don't think we ever had 2 logis and 4 ECM ships though. Right now we don't have a single blackbird pilot in corp and our logis are all alts who are in combat ships 90% of the time. well I could fly blackbirds if you want me to do, more or less right now, although I'm lacking experience and won't do it right now, even if you'd say so. Maybe in a month or two. I got my "basic" drake plan done now and since I already used blackbirds in earlier ops my follow up is still falcon I guess, which is basicly "only" + Show Spoiler + Electro Upg 5 ( 8 days  )Covert Ops 1-4 Signature Analysis 4-5 Spaceship 5 Recon Ships 1-5 Long Distance Jamming 4 Frequency Modulation 1-4 should be about 30 days So if you want to have a blackbird next month or so I could do it, but I'd rather start getting into understanding the ops better, to start flying my drake first (pretty much the same, could fly it right now but I'm not anywhere near experienced enough to do so yet). | ||
Antoine
United States7481 Posts
falcons are so good tho | ||
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